Room Conversation With Svarūpa Dāmodara , Vṛndāvana , 1977-10-15
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...last night, and we finished the showing of the movies, and they were very appreciative. They expressed that there is an atmosphere of purity here, and cleanliness. They highly commended our temple activities. Some of them were in the ārati. They also wanted to see the ārati in the morning today. So it seems to me that most of them are devotees.
Bhāgavata: This is a big success, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The scientists are all stonehearted men, but you have melted their hearts. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, and you have simply melted their hearts. This is all by your grace, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that even the scientists are now being delivered.
Prabhupāda: Try and vibrate. Hmm.
Bhāgavata: These scientists never would have come to Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: They hate to come.
Bhāgavata: [laughs] But you have made this wonderful place here in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Any respectable gentleman, they hate to come to Vṛndāvana.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, now I think many will come later. The man who came yesterday is the friend of our chief guest. His name is Dr. Chowdury. He's also a retired architect. He had a strong appreciation of the architectural design of the temple. He said the gurukula also... They looked all over the gurukula, and they were very appreciative. So then I told him that we are planning to build another auditorium for the Institute and for the ISKCON activities. So they didn't know these things before. This Ghattack, Professor Ghattack, he's the head of the Physics Department of India Institute of Technology. He told me last night that he never expected that such nice things might exist in Vṛndāvana. So he said there is an atmosphere of purity and cleanliness. He was thinking that maybe he could bring his child for the gurukula.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Make it an ideal institution. Who are you?
Abhirāma: Abhirāma, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: There is oil?
Prabhupāda: It must be...
Abhirāma: Heated. Warm.
Prabhupāda: Warm it is already. It must be sucked while rubbing. This must be dried up.
Abhirāma: Dried up, this. By rubbing?
Prabhupāda: Yes, dried up.
Bhāgavata: Dry the oil into the skin by rubbing.
Prabhupāda: Whose hand is cold?
Bhāgavata: Oh. My hand. Bhāgavata. I am sorry. I will not touch you. I am very cold.
Bhāgavata: We fed them nice prasādam also yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda---three meals a day. They get breakfast in the morning, they get some kacaurī and some hot jalebī and some ālu sabjī and hot milk for breakfast, nāstā. Then in the afternoon for lunch they get two sabjīs, they get rice, they get ḍāl, they get cāpāṭis, and two sweets, peṛā and bundi lāḍu. And then in the evening again they get some sabjī and roṭī, samosā, like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We had nice prasādam.
Bhāgavata: And everyone is very pleased and satisfied with the prasādam. [break]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think about forty. Forty people. Today it will come more. Then Dr. Khorana is coming tomorrow. He's a medical doctor. He's bringing several of his friends. He's also our Life Member.
Abhirāma: His son is a devotee. Śrīla Prabhupāda knows him, Navīna-kṛṣṇa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Navīna-kṛṣṇa. He's in Detroit. After the conference, I'm going to have a debate in Delhi, round-table conference with Dr. Kothari, D. S. Kothari and his group.
Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He proposed that. That's Indian National Science Academy. But he had some very strange ideas. I'd like to clarify some of the points. Also, these people who are coming here, they want us to come and speak to all their universities.
Prabhupāda: That will be very good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'll concentrate here, near Delhi and Punjab, this time, Aligarh and Agra. We'll try to finish this area within this coming month or so. And after that, I'll move to Bombay. I'll try to organize better in Bombay. Also Bombay will be much more effective. There are so many scientists there, and I'd like to make a strong show in Bombay.
Bhāgavata: They have a space center there, don't they, in Bombay?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have got Trombay Atomic Research Center also. There is a place called Tata Institute of Fundamental Research.
Bhāgavata: And in Bangalore they have some good institutes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We'll go all over India. In Calcutta will be very interesting, because there are so many people.
Bhāgavata: Yesterday you took ḍāl and roṭī?
Abhirāma: Just tasted.
Bhāgavata: Oh. Just tasted.
Prabhupāda: Simply touch.
Bhāgavata: How was it tasting?
Prabhupāda: It was very tasteful, but my tongue has no taste. Maybe gradually, by stimulating the body... [pause]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Vṛndāvana is so beautiful at this time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everyone's... The sky is so clear, the stars are so bright, and also the weather is so beautiful. You know, we have a nice decoration of the hall. Last night one of the professors from Agra told me that he wants to have us organize this conference next year. He said this should be an annual feature, a science conference in Vṛndāvana every year.
Prabhupāda: Let them make advance in scientific research, but still they cannot capture the real thing.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like I have heard it, when Socrates was condemned to death, the judges inquired that "How Mr. Socrates wants to be entombed?" When the judges inquired Socrates, "How you want to be entombed?" Socrates = "First of all capture me. Then to the question of entomb me." What he said?
Abhirāma: Yes. That is a historical fact.
Prabhupāda: No. What is the wording?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the wording?
Abhirāma: He said, "First you'll have to catch me."
Bhāgavata: Until you have spoken about this, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no one really understood the deep meaning of what Socrates had said. It is by your grace that the light has been put on that, as to what is the deep meaning of what Socrates meant, that he was talking about the soul. Generally people cannot understand these things.
Abhirāma: When Alexander the Great was going to conquer India, first of all he asked Socrates, "What shall I bring you?" So Socrates, he just requested him, "You bring me the water from the holy Ganges."
Abhirāma: "And you bring those sacred texts which are studied by the holy men in India. These are the only two things I want." [break]
Prabhupāda: ...some way or other it has become successful.
Bhāgavata: There is no question of thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It is a fact. It is reality that you have become successful, because you have converted even now the scientists. Even the scientists are becoming encouraged to take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and their minds are being changed. It is history, and we are seeing it right before our eyes. That is another one of your great contributions in your spiritual conquests, that you have converted the scientists. As Caitanya has conquered the Māyāvādīs, you have conquered the scientists. That's why we are very much eager that you shall remain with us more and more, to carry on these conquests, that we can somehow or other in some small way just help you. But your presence is definitely required. Actually, all the devotees are just living to see you from time to time, so that they can get your darśana.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a fact that we live only by Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy. [break]
Abhirāma: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, even though you're simply lying in bed, whatever instructions you give, those are being broadcast all over the world. Simply from this bed you can preach all over the world. You have established such expert system for preaching, your BBT... You have so many disciples. So now, even lying in bed in Vṛndāvana, your preaching is going throughout the world. In so many languages even. Whatever you are speaking here, the GBCs and older devotees, they're taking back to so many different countries and translating into so many languages---Spanish, French, German, Italian. The devotees all over the world are just waiting to hear every word that you speak.
Bhāgavata: We had one big book table set up in the conference hall yesterday with all of your books, all of your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams, all the Caitanya-caritāmṛtas, and that bronze statue of yourself was there. And the books by the scientists, by Sadāpūta dāsa and by Svarūpa Dāmodara, which were explaining the scientific theories in light of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all those books were there, and the scientists were appreciating them very much.
Abhirāma: When news gets out, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you've started to translate again, all the devotees are going to be ecstatic. They'll feel like their life has come back. It will remind us of... Just like Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja. He was in such a condition that he couldn't move practically from his lying position, nor could he see. So many senses were failing. But he spoke or wrote down such an incredible book. [break]
Bhagatjī: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: [Bengali with Bhagatjī]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda says by activating his muscles, by massaging, that will generate energy. That will bring appetite. [break]
Abhirāma: ...started translating last night.
Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam last night. [Bhagatjī chuckles] Pradyumna was reading, and Śrīla Prabhupāda was giving the explanation of translation.
Prabhupāda: Try... [Bengali with Bhagatjī]
Bhāgavata: Everyone is eagerly awaiting the new issues of your books all over the world. What to speak of the devotees---the scholars the professors, the librarians, and just the general reading public who are patronizing your books, literally millions of people all over the world are eagerly awaiting new issues of your volumes. When the news gets out that you are again translating and that the new volumes of Tenth Canto will be available, everyone will be in ecstasy.
Prabhupāda: I have got some letters from New Vrindavan appealing for the books.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everybody appreciates, including the scientists, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Bhāgavata: Previously the scientists were turning away from their culture, 'cause no one was giving it purely. But Kṛṣṇa... By Kṛṣṇa's grace, by your grace, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are giving the Kṛṣṇa consciousness science of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam purely in this line of disciplic succession. So now it is becoming attractive again even to those who have already given it up, thinking it to be not useful. They are now finding it renewed and refreshed, and they are finding it..., a renewed interest in all the Vedic literatures. And this is all by your power, all by your grace.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday... Last night some of the scientists were asking how our gurukula boys here studying Sanskrit. Some of them were telling that they have given up to study Sanskrit because they want to study English. So how the change of views. The Westerners are trying to learn Sanskrit, and they're saying that they are giving up. So he had a strange feeling how these things are happening. Then I told him that Śrīla Prabhupāda sometimes commented that in the future we are importing brāhmaṇas from the West so that we can learn even the brahminical culture from the Western world. So he was telling me that that is now becoming a fact, how the Western devotees are taking so seriously in trying to spread the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world. [break]
Bhāgavata: ...were all banging on the drums and the karatālas. They started going, "Hare Kṛṣṇa! Hari bol!" very loud, tumultuous sound. All the devotees were very happy. That sound shall go everywhere in the world. Everywhere the devotees would... [break]
Jayādvaita: I'm bewildered again. Kṛṣṇa's again doing something impossible.
Prabhupāda: Possible or impossible... [break] It is not very...
Upendra: Prabhupāda wants to know why... Hari-śauri's here. Wanted to know why the urine is not as bad as it was. What action was taken to make it not bad?
Hari-śauri: You're not drinking that orange juice. I was told by Parivrājakācārya... He seems to know something about juices and things like that, and he said that orange juice is much too powerful. It kind of scourges the kidneys. It scours them out. And...
Prabhupāda: So what I am drinking now?
Hari-śauri: This sweet lime juice. He also thought that might be a little strong, because it's citrus, because actually the urine is still cloudy, and that did not occur until you began to drink this orange and sweet lime. The first night when the blood was there, that day you had drunk two glasses of sweet lemon and one glass of orange. Just like pomegranate juice, this is very good because it's not citrus. Is the sweet lemon juice giving some strength?
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Hari-śauri: Just it gives a little taste, though. But that is also important. How did you like the pomegranate juice?
Hari-śauri: We should get some more.
Upendra: Give it to him...
Hari-śauri: [aside:] He's not taking... Prabhupāda said that made the blood pass urine before, but he's not taking any. I suggested that it was the orange juice. It's too strong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe. But you can't be sure of it.
Hari-śauri: No, you can't.
Hari-śauri: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja is here. [to Tamāla:] He got that blood in his urine after he drank...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he was taking tablets. He was taking those tonic things out of those bottles. I remember taking spoons of tonic...
Upendra: Took some natural, herbal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.
Hari-śauri: It wasn't allopathic.
Hari-śauri: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja was suggesting...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I'm not suggesting; I'm questioning.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Whether it might have been some of these herbal remedies that may have caused the blood to come.
Prabhupāda: Herbal remedy? What is that herbal remedy?
Upendra: He took one spoonful of syrup, natural syrup, vitamin syrup.
Hari-śauri: That was all, though. It was just some syrup that you took before.
Upendra: I don't even know if he took it that day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the sweet limes, they're strong too. And he's not getting it from taking the sweet limes.
Hari-śauri: No, but his urine is still cloudy. There's still some pus coming through.
Upendra: He's drinking as much as he did that one day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think he had any sweet limes the day before he passed the blood.
Hari-śauri: Yes, he did.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had them mostly yesterday.
Hari-śauri: No, no. The first day Ātreya Ṛṣi brought them, Prabhupāda immediately drank a glass, full glass.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of orange juice.
Hari-śauri: Of sweet lime. And then in the nighttime he had orange juice. And then the next morning, then he passed the blood in his urine. And then again the next morning he took the sweet lime again. But he hasn't had any orange juice since then, so there's been no blood, but his urine is still cloudy. He's still taking the sweet lime juice. But it wasn't there before when he was taking it. So Prabhupāda hadn't had any orange juice for a long time. Parivrājakācārya said that citrus fruits are much too strong for the kidneys, 'cause the kidneys are weak.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Maybe will take...
Upendra: We can get the bathing ready?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...meeting with the bank people. A gentleman has come from Delhi. Girirāja and I are talking with him. We've transferred the receipts there, and we're just completing the formalities.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the bank manager said he was... He's the assistant to the... I think he's one of the top men in the bank. He's completely disgusted. When he saw... He's disgusted---these were the very words---with how they have arranged things here, and he's going to completely redecorate this office, putting in rugs and full furniture and waiting facilities, and make it a first-class office. He says he cannot understand how this has been allowed to go on like this in the name of Punjab Bank. And he's having a new manager brought here who has been trained in Delhi, a younger man who is a little bit more, you know, capable of making proper decisions and acting in a nice way. And every single request...
Prabhupāda: But the defect is that here the head manager does not know English.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, this man, we'll have a little bit more freedom to act. Generally they're going to now rectify all of their mistakes. They feel very sorry. The senior people in the bank feel very sorry for the way in which business has been dealt with towards us, and they're going to transfer... The receipts have already been transferred. We're just finishing up all the formalities. Girirāja was right. The thing which he wanted to do now has been done. It's... The head men in Punjab Bank had no idea of how we were being dealt with locally. And when they were informed, they became very much desirous of rectifying everything, because they feel that we're a very worthy accountant holders with them, and they don't want anything to jeopardize. And we told them, "We have every intention of expanding our facilities here. Simply we want to be dealt with in a proper, normal way." So I think I should return there to finish the discussions. Everything was quite in order, though. It's nothing to worry about.
Prabhupāda: And the manager is not there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everybody's there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gupta's there, and Dugal. They've come twice. They came this afternoon, and Girirāja fed them prasādam. They went to the conference hall where we were having prasādam with the scientists. They took full prasāda. The man has come with his wife. He's a devotee.
Prabhupāda: So Gupta is being transferred.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Gupta will no longer be in charge of this local office here. He's the person who has... Frankly speaking, he was... Girirāja found him to be the one who is most harassing. They purposely have not brought him here this evening, I think. He's not here this evening. Because the chief man from Delhi could understand that this Mr. Gupta was creating a lot of difficulties.
Prabhupāda: And Dugal is here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dugal is here. So we're explaining to him everything, what we want, and they're agreeing to everything.
Prabhupāda: What Gupta said?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He doesn't say anything anymore, because he has been exposed as having harassed us and unnecessarily not giving the proper facilities. I mean, he cannot say anything. Dugal says that "Whatever I am told to do by the head office, I must do."
Prabhupāda: So he is the head office man?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So he's agreeing to do everything. I mean, they have to do everything. They're just workers for the head office. They cannot act independently of the head office. They have to carry out the orders of the head office.
Prabhupāda: So you saw the massaging?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. How are you feeling after it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think massage is good. It will keep your body a little bit loosened and...
Prabhupāda: So where they have gone?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's supposed to be coming back. I do not know if he's gone with Bhagatjī, but he said that he'd be coming back in a short time. I think that this program of massaging and also using your brain for translating little bit...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that is also very important.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [end]