Room Conversation , Vṛndāvana , 1977-10-13

[visit with Prabhupāda's Godbrothers, Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] And Doctor Stillson, what he has called me? Name? Carmons... What is that? C-h...

Hari-śauri: I can't remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: It is a common word. [Bengali with Bhakti-caru] It begins with c-h. Spiritual master.

Hari-śauri: I can just find out from Tamāla Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali guests comment] Yes. Thank you very much for your coming.

Guest (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: He described you as charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [laughs] What is the meaning, that?

Hari-śauri: It's someone who has, by his personality, who has very attractive power or influence.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] "Charismatic spiritual master." [Bengali] You have got that book?

Hari-śauri: Stillson Judah's?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: I'll just have to... I'll check in the... I think it's in the other room.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali to guests] What is that? What is the name of Doctor Stillson's book?

Jayādvaita: J. Stillson Judah.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is name of the book?

Jayādvaita: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa and the Counterculture.

Bhakti-caru: Hare Kṛṣṇa and the Counterculture.

Jayādvaita: He's librarian of the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California. And he's Professor of Anthropology also.

Prabhupāda: Soviet country, why don't you read...? Where is our Harikeśa?

Guest (1): In Russian. [laughs]

Hari-śauri: That book of Stillson Judah's is in Bombay I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where is Harikeśa? [Bengali with Bhakti-caru and guests] Why these books you do not keep with us?

Hari-śauri: Generally they do carry them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but it was left...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was a copy here also, and I don't see it now. There was a copy on these shelves. [indistinct background discussion about wherabouts of book]

Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda Swami? [Bengali] Our New Vrindavan scheme... [Bengali]

Hari-śauri: This is a palace that they're building in our New Vrindavan farm community. This is built by our own men. This is not complete yet, but it's being built, the dome. Kīrtanānanda Swami is in charge. These are the devotees. Everything is being made by our men, everything. They learned how to cast concrete, how to make these pillars, archways. This marble-laying is all done by our men. They came here and learned, and they have a marble shop. This is the kīrtana hall inside. This is on the walls. Here's the floor. This is onyx and marble together. This is pressed concrete, sculptured.

Guest (2): Very beautiful.

Hari-śauri: This is a support piece, little decorative. This is a guesthouse that was built by the devotees. This is another new building they're building now, and this is present installation and silos for storing cow fodder. This is a part of the farm. [appreciative sounds from Godbrothers] You want to sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I can sit down for some...

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Rāmeśvara Mahārāja wanted to show you some very nice things from the BBT. I think your Godbrothers would also be interested to see.

Prabhupāda: Bring him.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, these are pictures of the new paintings for Tenth Canto, Volume Two.

Prabhupāda: Bring some prasādam for these men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: First of all you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda wants prasādam to be distributed.

Rāmeśvara: This is Kṛṣṇa and Tṛṇāvarta demon, the whirlwind.

Hari-śauri: Show Prabhupāda's Godbrothers.

Rāmeśvara: This is Kṛṣṇa releasing the two demigods from the arjuna trees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can you see them?

Hari-śauri: These paintings are done in Los Angeles for Prabhupāda's books. This is from Second Volume of Tenth Canto.

Rāmeśvara: This one is Kṛṣṇa kicking the cart. Śakaṭāsura. Kṛṣṇa and the demon coming from the cart.

Kīrtanānanda: [laughter] They're wonderful, Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: This one is Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma in the cowshed of Nanda Mahārāja for the name-giving ceremony. And Gargamuni is there. This one is Nārada Muni cursing the two demigods for sporting naked and drinking. This is Kṛṣṇa killing the giant witch Pūtanā. Kṛṣṇa is very small on her chest.

Hari-śauri: These are the supermost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your artists have become very expert, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Kīrtanānanda: Wonderful.

Rāmeśvara: This one I think you have seen = Kṛṣṇa stealing butter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This has been given to the Shah of Iran, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: To hang in their palace.

Prabhupāda: The Shah of Iran [Bengali] some connection [Bengali] Parivrājakācārya [Bengali]...

Rāmeśvara: This painting is Mother Yaśodā chasing Kṛṣṇa with a stick because He is stealing butter. [Godbrothers are laughing, exclaiming "Oh" and "Hmm" at each picture]

Kīrtanānanda: It's beautiful.

Rāmeśvara: This painting is the fruit vendor, aborigine, giving Kṛṣṇa all the fruits, and He is turning her basket of fruits into jewels.

Hari-śauri: These are wonderful.

Rāmeśvara: We showed this painting to the princess and told her that if you give something to Kṛṣṇa, He returns it millions of times. [laughter] She liked this. This is the cowherd boys sporting in the mouth of Aghāsura.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Very nice.

Rāmeśvara: This is Kṛṣṇa eating dirt, and the boys are telling Mother Yaśodā. So she is forcing Him to open His mouth, and she sees the whole universe.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: This painting shows Kṛṣṇa about to bifurcate the Bakāsura demon. This is Kṛṣṇa's first birthday, Janmāṣṭamī, and Mother Yaśodā and Rohiṇī are bathing Kṛṣṇa, abhiṣeka. This painting is Kṛṣṇa eating butter. [laughter and indistinct comments] These are fourteen new paintings for one book. These are the first pictures from the Fiji temple opening. Yaśodā-nandana is performing the abhiṣeka for the small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. They have so different many metal bowls with different...

Hari-śauri: This abhiṣeka took us seven hours.

Prabhupāda: Fiji Island. [Bengali]

Guest (1): Fiji Island.

Rāmeśvara: This is abhiṣeka of Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya.

Hari-śauri: This is Gaura-Nitāi here, and Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya is here at the front. This man here is that Bhaskaranya Swami, the local man. He came and chanted during the abhiṣeka. He stayed up until two in the morning with us, and he began chanting japa after that.

Rāmeśvara: This was the procession on the opening day. We marched the Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities all over the neighborhood, through the center of the town, and hundreds of people followed. There was a shenai band.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is Vāsudeva. Rāmeśvara.

Rāmeśvara: This was the agni-hotra ceremony on the day the temple opened.

Hari-śauri: Just after this, there was a huge rainstorm. Very successful.

Rāmeśvara: And this is the altar, with Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya and the Nāga-patnīs.

Hari-śauri: Should Kṛṣṇa be dressed very, very opulently like this, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They had a question in Fiji. They wanted to know whether He should be dressed simply or opulently.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-Kāliya temple [Bengali].

Rāmeśvara: This is Kṛṣṇa's birthday cake for Janmāṣṭamī in Los Angeles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Describe it.

Rāmeśvara: This cake weighs 2,000 pounds.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The cake, Śrīla Prabhupāda, weighs 2,000..., one ton. How high is it, Rāmeśvara?

Rāmeśvara: It is very tall.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many feet? About fifteen feet high.

Hari-śauri: These are the people here.

Rāmeśvara: And each one of these different towers spins on motor for special effects. [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you eat it?

Rāmeśvara: Well, after it is finished spinning. It's a cheesecake, very nice cake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Los Angeles?

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This is another picture of this cake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is amazing. The guests were eating big handfuls of cake prasādam, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Was there enough for everyone?

Jayādvaita: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: It lasts for one month, the supply. [laughter] This is another picture of the Janmāṣṭamī in Los Angeles. The whole street is closed by the city, and we build a stage in front of the temple, and Sudāmā's men were performing Rāmāyaṇa and Kṛṣṇa-līlā, and there were rugs in the street for people to sit on and under the paṇḍāl on the grass, and they were watching. About five thousand people came.

Hari-śauri: Many Indians in the picture also.

Rāmeśvara: This is the Deities' clothes, on Janmāṣṭamī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrī-Śrī-Rukmiṇī-Dvārakādhīśa. Los Angeles Mandir. Rukmiṇī-Dvārakādhīśa.

Rāmeśvara: These were the nightclothes offered on Janmāṣṭamī to the Deities.

Prabhupāda: See that it does not touch...

Hari-śauri: Don't touch Prabhupāda's feet with the painting.

Rāmeśvara: This was a flower outfit offered on Janmāṣṭamī. They had three outfits.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three different sets of clothing, all new, were offered to the Deities on Janmāṣṭamī. And this one is made completely of flowers.

Rāmeśvara: The next morning They were offered another set of new clothes for Vyāsa-pūjā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you must go there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, again. They are calling you to come.

Rāmeśvara: These are the new clothes for Jhulan-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: I have given them the philosophy of "American money and Indian culture." Combined together, the face of the world will...

Hari-śauri: Change.

Prabhupāda: Don't keep Indian culture airtight, and don't keep American money for sense gratification. Use it for Kṛṣṇa. So they are doing that. And Kṛṣṇa is giving them intelligence. Bhakti-yogaṁ dadāmi tam.

Rāmeśvara: These are the new clothes for Rādhāṣṭamī.

Prabhupāda: Any respectable Indian who goes to our temple, and they give us as they want. There is no such temple in India.

Rāmeśvara: These were the new clothes for Balarāma's Appearance Day.

Guest (2): [Bengali about Calcutta mandir]

Rāmeśvara: These are new clothes at New York. Śrī Śrī Rādhā-Govinda.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of some of your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It shows what all the Bhāgavatams, First, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Eighth, and Ninth Cantos look like on the shelf. Not all of them are there, but it shows the colors.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to make a bookshelf big enough.

Rāmeśvara: There is not one bookshelf big enough. And here these are different Bhagavad-gītās---one, two... = English, Japanese, Portuguese, German, Spanish, French, Swedish and Italian.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chinese. Where's Chinese?

Hari-śauri: There's more than that.

Rāmeśvara: There are more.

Hari-śauri: There's much more than that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Show them. He wants you to show the pictures. Where are they? Where are the books? Show him. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu brought some new offerings for you.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a Hindi Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Hmm! Please come.

Hari-śauri: Mahā-Viṣṇu on the cover.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have printed twenty thousand copies of this.

Jayapatākā: Kṛṣṇa-bhāvanārtha haya jñānika adhara.[?] This is nectar.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These books will be sold to the people for one rupee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What people?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: To the Indians.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about this conference?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we have a big box here. It will be sold to everyone for one rupee, which is very cheap.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're going to have... These were ready in time for the conference, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have a big box here. So we have this in English and Hindi now.

[background whispering among devotees]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] [Godbrothers laugh] Little attempt, great success. [Bengali] Eighty years. [Bengali with Godbrothers]

Hari-śauri: Harikeśa Swami is here now, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali with Godbrothers] [Godbrothers leave]

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? The trustees have met, and there is one question to ask you. There are many articles in BTG which are written by you, or your lectures and your famous conversations, like Professor Kotovsky, Dr. Stahl. So there is a proposal to take all of these different writings that have been published in BTG and put them together in one hardbound book, so that they will be preserved.

Prabhupāda: Good idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For distribution.

Rāmeśvara: And in the future there are so many other lectures that may be preserved in this way too, if you desire. Other books can be printed in the future.

Prabhupāda: Very good idea.

Jayapatākā: Then there is unlimited material.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've not only written more than anybody, but you've spoken more about Kṛṣṇa than anyone, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Kīrtanānanda: [offering a drink to Prabhupāda] Drink. This is to be drunk, not spit out. Drink it, whole thing. Please, Prabhupāda! How will you ever get well? Come on! [laughs] Get a cloth.

Upendra: He rinses his mouth.

Kīrtanānanda: He can take a little more. Your body needs more, Prabhupāda. Śrīla Prabhupāda, you know, Mother Yaśodā, she was very fortunate because she could completely forget that Kṛṣṇa was God, and she would simply tell Kṛṣṇa, "You have to do it." Unfortunately, my love is not that great, 'cause I can still remember you're my spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: I am doing your order. [laughter]

Kīrtanānanda: Thank you very much. One more?

Jayādvaita: This is milk?

Kīrtanānanda: Half water. Thank you. [aside:] I think he probably wants to go down.

Hari-śauri: We can bathe you now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Kīrtanānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're not really going to try and eat that khichrī are you?

Prabhupāda: Really? Why not?

Kīrtanānanda: Let's just stay on this for a few days to get your body a little accustomed, and then if you want something other, we can try. I think... You're doing well, Prabhupāda. And if we introduce so many different things, and if you have a reaction, then we won't know what it was that caused it.

Brahmānanda: Then Prabhupāda will want to stop everything.

Kīrtanānanda: So if we just go a little bit slowly, it will get us there faster in the end.

Prabhupāda: I'm very thin and hungry.[?] I'll take a little. And now, in the evening, they'll come about ten to twelve. Arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda. There's about fifty people going to come for prasādam?

Jayapatākā: Fifteen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifteen.

Dr. Kapoor: They will come in afternoon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twelve to fifteen. Okay. We'll arrange for their taking prasādam. So you'll bathe now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Who can read Hindi?

Hari-śauri: Who can read Hindi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you read Hindi? Where is Gopāla? [break]

Prabhupāda: From medical point of view, you cannot give life. The life is finished. Where is medical point? Hmm? According to duration of life, that is finished. You cannot give a dead body life.

Kīrtanānanda: But your body is not dead, Prabhupāda. Your body is not dead. Your life is very strong.

Prabhupāda: Then again you go to miracle.

Kīrtanānanda: Eh?

Prabhupāda: Then again you go to miracle. As soon as you say, "Your body is not dead."

Trivikrama: Then you go to miracle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Going to miracles.

Prabhupāda: That is not medical point.

Kīrtanānanda: I don't... It doesn't appear that...

Prabhupāda: No. You said "medical point."

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So medical point does not mean that you can give life to a dead body.

Kīrtanānanda: That is fact.

Prabhupāda: So my body is now dead according to medical point. You cannot give life. So let it be doomed. It is not possible from medical point of view to give life to a dead body. What is this? It is dead body.

Upendra: Prasādam has come, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you can, for the time being, disperse. Let me... Whatever possible, I'll take. Then you come and chant.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...taking poison. The body is already finished.

Upendra: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said, "If you think I'm taking poison, that the body is already finished."

Prabhupāda: So dead body, you take poison or ambrosia, it is the same. Blind man, night or day---the same thing. Rather, if you depend on miracle, pray to Kṛṣṇa that "He may survive."

Hari-śauri: We rely on Kṛṣṇa, not the medical science.

Prabhupāda: Medical science finished.

Jagadīśa: What did he say?

Hari-śauri: Medical science finished.

Brahmānanda: Sit up? [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...and make you lift, that wasn't by medical science. That was by your love for Kṛṣṇa and our love for you.

Hari-śauri: When all these doctors come, they can't understand how it is that you're still here. [break]

Prabhupāda: On the telephone or where?[?]

Bhakti-caru: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We just had a little bit of your mahā-prasādam, and it is the sweetest nectar, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It has given us life. [break]

Kīrtanānanda: ...your urine tested this morning, and there was some blood and pus in the urine. So the doctor there, he's prescribed some tablets and things. Do you want?

Prabhupāda: Who is the doctor?

Kīrtanānanda: Bhagatjī? Where's Bhagatjī?

Hari-śauri: Who was that doctor?

Bhagatjī: Dr. Gopal in Ramakrishna Seva Ashram. Physician. He's an M.D. He is the best doctor in Mathurā district.

Kīrtanānanda: He said it is not... It's just one or two times you'd have to take.

Bhagatjī: To check the blood. And I can call him to see you, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Let me taste this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First let him take the tablets.

Bhagatjī: One is syrup, and one tablet to be grinded in honey.

Kīrtanānanda: What is this for?

Bhagatjī: This is blood urea to be tested. The other doctor, one of the best doctors, he said that blood urea should be tested because there is pus, and this blood will be defect. And the aluminium also, Prabhupāda... Charvi[?] is also passing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Charvi?[?]

Bhagatjī: Two, three.

Kīrtanānanda: What does he need to do this test? More urine?

Bhagatjī: He will take some blood.

Prabhupāda: But that is the difficulty.

Hari-śauri: Yes. No blood. Prabhupāda doesn't want a blood test.

Prabhupāda: Let me taste this tablet. [break] [Bengali with Bhagatjī and Bhakti-caru] [break] Go on, kīrtana. [break] What news?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends, who's also a retired architect. He designed [indistinct]. There's also a very well known architect who's coming with him this evening. He's going to speak on what is life and its purpose, about twenty minutes. Then the other scholars will start arriving tomorrow, and I think Sunday everybody's coming. On Sunday there will be many medical doctors... Khorana is one of our Life Members, Dr. Khorana from Delhi. He's bringing several of his friends. Also I'm expecting some doctors from Agra. One... I don't recall his name, but he's also our Life Member. Everybody says that we have chosen the right place to have a conference. There's one Dr. Mishra, he wanted to come tomorrow. Also I actually requested him to become the chief guest, but so he cannot come tomorrow, but he's coming on Sunday. And also he's speaking. So there are about five or six people from outside that are speaking on different aspects of the conference regarding life. There's one Dr. Bhatta.[?] He's one of the philosophers from Delhi University. He's speaking on..., called philosophical foundations of life. He told me that he studied a great deal about Rāmānuja. Also, he said, previously he studied in Bon Mahārāja's institute about ten years ago something about Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And now he's a reader in Philosophy Department in Delhi. He's going to speak something on the philosophical aspects of life. So we expect some good crowd from the scholars, mostly scientists from physics, from chemistry, mathematics and biology. And I found that most of them are very interested, and almost everybody wanted to come, unless they had some engagement before. Everybody was very positive on our approach. In fact they encouraged us a lot, and they told us that's unique---trying to understand the concept of life from religious point of view connected with modern science. And many Bengalis are also coming.

Prabhupāda: Scholar?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the Physics Department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative about... They already know about Śrīla Prabhupāda's activities. So there is one professor called Ghattak. He's the head of the Department of Physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's the head of the Department of Life Sciences, coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, would you like to sit up for a while?

Hari-śauri: He was just sitting about ten minutes ago.

Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda? Shall we call him?

Prabhupāda: He is busy?

Akṣayānanda: He's not too busy to come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we have decided that the function will be started with the Brahma-saṁhitā prayer with our gurukula boys to open the conference, followed by the short speech by the chief guest. Then we'll start our main talk. Our main talk is going to last at least two hours. Each of us will speak. And then I've decided to open about half an hour for questions and answers and general discussion. On Sunday I'm leaving more than an hour for discussion. We'll summarize the whole conference and also make some conclusive remarks about the previous two days' talk that we are making.

Prabhupāda: So the place is cleansed or not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Place is... They are still putting the electrical wires. But otherwise, we have decorated the inside with curtains, so everything will be nice also. We're cleaning the other hall for serving the prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And all of the guesthouse rooms, Śrīla Prabhupāda, have been vacated for the scientists. The whole guesthouse is ready to receive them, and all the rooms have been cleansed freshly. It's ready for them. [pause] Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do you know about the conference?

Kīrtanānanda: About what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About the conference.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So cooperate. You have heard what the arrangement?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You have heard about the arrangement in the conference?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm inviting, requesting all the GBCs, and also the sannyāsīs, mahārājas, to kindly attend the conference unless they're engaged at that time.

Prabhupāda: According to horoscope, life is finished. Still, I am living. What should be the interpretation?

Hari-śauri = What should be the...?

Kīrtanānanda: The interpretation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: About the conference?

Prabhupāda: No, about... About me.

Hari-śauri: Life is different from matter.

Kīrtanānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, even the astrologers all say that you are transcendental, that if you want, you can change your horoscope. And that's what you told us, that Kṛṣṇa said the choice is up to you.

Prabhupāda: So what do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that you should continue to try, and that Kṛṣṇa will help you, because we all want you. The whole world wants you very much, and there's no reason why Kṛṣṇa cannot do this. If we remain determined, then Kṛṣṇa will surely fulfill our desires. We're not desiring it for any selfish reason that you should live. We're desiring for the benefit of the whole world. There's every reason to continue to try and make the effort to remain.

Prabhupāda: So, something to eat. What shall I eat?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Something liquid. [whispering among devotees = "It has to be tasteful."]

Kīrtanānanda: [aside:] Three hours later. [whispering among devotees]

Prabhupāda: They cannot come for three days. Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many are coming for three days, except for a few. From Agra I expect about fifty, and from Mathurā there will be about fifteen to twenty, and from Delhi I expect about thirty for tomorrow. Then, on Saturday, Sunday... Sunday is going to be... Everybody's coming on Sunday, whomever I invited. Because in Delhi, schools and colleges are still going on.

Prabhupāda: Fifty, fifty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So it will be about a hundred. These are all mostly professors, very few students. There's about four or five. All are professors. Some of them wanted to help me start a center in Delhi of our Bhaktivedanta Institute. They told me they can help me in setting up one center in Delhi. There's one Professor Malsanda, he's the head of the Physiology Department.

Prabhupāda: Why not take the chance?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Also, while I was typing in the Connaught Place, some businessman came and he saw the letterhead saying "Bhaktivedanta Institute." Then he asked me later on, "What is this Institute?" Then I told him Prabhupāda's projects and plans. And he was very sincere and serious. He was a big businessman. And he wanted to help me in setting up one center in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: So take this opportunity. And who will supply the place, suitable place? It will be very prestigious in Delhi.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Delhi is like Washington, D.C.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have many offices. Similarly, in Washington, D.C. they have many headquarters for these scientific and governmental organizations.

Prabhupāda: All embassies.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And also I have set up one round-table debating conference in the Indian Academy of Sciences. That will be right after the conference in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Rāma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kothari. D. S. Kothari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and is very respected, all Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.

Prabhupāda: We want that they should be interested.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They are very interested. All the universities, wherever I went, everybody thought that this was a very genuine idea, and they wanted to know more about it. Also, the chief guest who is coming this evening... I discussed briefly yesterday. He was... Actually he's a very well known figure in the United Nations. He represented several times in the United Nations program, and he spoke also many times in the U.N., and he was... We were discussing briefly about the limitations of science, and the scientists are sometimes trying to speak so many big words without any scientific background, like especially in the case of life. So actually he's going to speak in favor of our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He suggested that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a movement like United Nations.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He himself is a man from the United Nations, experienced, and he thought Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if we can push forward, it will be best in the world. That was his opinion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He had a great respect for our movement. I didn't know him before. He's a very well known educationist also.

Prabhupāda: So, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: How do you like?

Kīrtanānanda: The conference? I think it's wonderful.

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning. And arrange for such conference one after another, many... Do something so that before my departure I can see something. Oh, Bhavānanda [indistinct]. Or smite. Where is Bhavānanda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahmānanda?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bhavānanda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhavānanda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll call him, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Our only ambition is to stop this. God is one, He is a person, and He's Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: And we are following what Kṛṣṇa says. Then our life is success. Hmm? What is that? Kothari has now retired?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He retired a few years ago. But he's still very active in the Science Academy, and he writes articles. And he sent me an article just a few days ago called "The Mind and the Body Relationship in Modern Science." Sometimes in the West they think that mind is the soul. So he sent me an article, and he asked me what do I think about his article.

Prabhupāda: According to our śāstra, mind is meant for speculation. It does not give us any definite knowledge. My mind is working in one way; your mind is working another way. There is no conclu... Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. This is the result of mental speculation. And Gītā also says that manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. This spiritual spark, being bound up by the mind and the senses, is struggling hard on the material nature. And he's simply struggling. No fixed-up condition. Everyone will say, "I think this is right." What is right, he does not know. That is struggle. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are a group of physicists in the world today that... They think that the phenomena and the relationship between life and matter is some sort of a complementary. Just like they took this idea from a physicist called Niels Bohr. He tried to explain the quality of a particle called electron that has two properties. Sometimes is behaves like a wave, and sometimes it behaves like a particle. So he proposed an idea called "complementarity." Taking from that idea, some of the present-day physicists are thinking that life and matter are some sort of a complementary. But we are saying that that is wrong, saying that life is completely different from matter, inanimate matter. We're going to make that stand strong and also make it quite clear in the conference.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Bhavānanda Mahārāja is here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Bhavānanda Mahārāja?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, things are being arranged very nice?

Bhavānanda: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is being arranged now. The district magistrate and local officials have all been invited personally this morning, and the guesthouse is being completely cleaned up and made nice. Prasādam is being arranged. Conference room is being decorated. The dining hall for their prasādam is all being arranged also.

Prabhupāda: At the present moment our ordinary prasādam is very much liked by...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, he approved. He was saying, "It is very nice." And our members also say. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You also said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I personally feel that the prasādam here at lunchtime is some of the nicest prasādam I have eaten ever. Every day it's consistently very nice, served very nicely, and sufficient quantity.

Prabhupāda: So kindly maintain this standard. That is very important item. I am not eating, but I am hearing [laughter] and getting the appetite.

Devotees: Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another nice feature, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we all eat together.

Prabhupāda: Catur-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda-svādv-anna-tṛptān hari-bhakta-saṅghān, kṛtvaiva tṛptiṁ bhajataḥ sadaiva. This is also bhajana---to be satisfied that others are taking first-class prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhuṅkte bhojayate caiva ṣaḍ-vidhaṁ prīti-lakṣaṇam [Upadeśāmṛta 4].

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We want to treat them very nicely outside the conference, like giving nice prasādam. [break] ...yes. So we have specifically arranged for this nice prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Inside you're not going to be nice to them? [laughter]

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Inside we are going to say very strongly about our philosophy and science. So anybody who's going to oppose that, we're going to duel them. Also, we'll show some films, our Hare Kṛṣṇa films, just after the conference. The evening, I have some entertainment program. That program is for showing our films and our activities, ISKCON activities throughout the world. So I have brought all the slides from Los Angeles that we have from our BBT department, and also I have all the films ready. Also, they can attend maṅgala-ārati, and in the evening they can also attend the sandhyā-ārati. And also some of them want just to see our temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. They have heard that the architect is very nice, and it's very nicely decorated. So some of them already heard about it, so they just want to see how the temple is here. And so, I think, overall our idea is also to make them devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. So go and arrange. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [end]