Room Conversation , Vṛndāvana , 1977-10-12
Prabhupāda: He is qualified man.
Kīrtanānanda: He's qualified. He's your friend. He's very understanding. But, of course, putting ourselves under his care means we have to follow his instruction.
Prabhupāda: He instructed hospitalization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, hospitalization.
Kīrtanānanda: Ultimately, whatever he says we have to do if we're going to accept him. But he's also very understanding, and I think in your condition I think there may be no need for hospitalization. We need to get some regular care established. There has to be a regimen for recovery.
Prabhupāda: No, that I have already explained. I don't want to go to hospital.
Kīrtanānanda: So that is not necessary. [Prabhupāda coughs heavily] [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā Mahārāja has come from Māyāpur.
Prabhupāda: Come here. [heavy coughing] Mucus is generating, either you take milk or fruit juice. I have given my opinion in that correspondence. And he's a qualified man. If you want him, then somebody may go to him and talk.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, that should be done. We'll do that today.
Prabhupāda: He wanted to retire and start a clinic here.
Kīrtanānanda: So he can come now.
Prabhupāda: So we can help.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. It's a very good idea.
Prabhupāda: So, what is the report, Jayapatākā?
Jayapatākā: Since I left you in Bombay, then I returned and presented the Show Cause to the additional district magistrate. And he just looked at it and postponed it till November 18th. He postponed, so as far as that goes, there's nothing until November 18th. Then, I think, Bhavānanda Mahārāja gave the report about the court. They released... They reduced the bail restriction on the devotees. I went on a tour of Orissa to the two temples there, Bhubaneswar and Bhadrak. In Bhubaneswar they have nice garden [Prabhupāda coughing up mucus] and about six or seven devotees. They had a nice Vyāsa-pūjā and Janmāṣṭamī festival.
Prabhupāda: Magistrate wants my presence?
Jayapatākā: No. It is not required that you talk to him. There's no... Everyone says that there's no case for that. The previous ADM said that actually the person that was doing it is this woman district magistrate. That woman is quite inimical to us. So there's very strong talk that after Durgā Pūjā she'll be transferred. If she's transferred, then our situation would become much better, I hope, by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. She's just trying to harass us, but actually she has no legal scope. Indian Overseas Bank came out, the additional general manager, to Māyāpur, and he's very eager to open up the branch at Māyāpur also, because they have already in Bombay. I think they have here also? I don't know. But he was eager to open a branch there. They have made us an application. The Central Bank sent a letter, withdrew their application for opening the bank. Right now the gurukula, they have just finished their examinations. Their examinations were writing an English sentence in Sanskrit and writing Sanskrit in English, and similar type tests. They..., most of the students got seventy percent on the examination. Then the bigger children went out on saṅkīrtana with the two traveling parties, one to Darjeeling. In Darjeeling they sold seven thousand books in less than ten days. They had very good reception in Darjeeling. And one party is still in Bihar. They're doing all... They did four thousand books.
Jayapatākā: In Bihar---they were doing the border of Bengal in Bihar---so they did both Hindi and Bengali. And in Darjeeling they did Bengali. Every day we're getting about twenty letters in the mail from people who want to be devotees or want to subscribe to the magazine. We get a big stack of mail. So there's a lot of interest from the books.
Prabhupāda: So utilize them properly.
Jayapatākā: Now there's eighty boys in the gurukula, and they're all very bright-faced, chant very nicely. [Prabhupāda coughing heavily throughout] In the other temple that Lokanātha Swami had begun in Orissa, Bhadrak, there they also had a nice program during Janmāṣṭamī and Vyāsa-pūjā. I visited there. There it's in a small town, and it's about two hundred feet from the side of a small river. All the local people there are very favorable and very cooperative. So they help in all the functions.
Prabhupāda: Where is that place?
Jayapatākā: That's in Balasore district. It's about thirty miles south of Balasore. It's a three-hour bus ride from Bhubaneswar north. There's a Gaura-Gopāla Mandir there that was being managed by a disciple of Parvat Mahārāja, a disciple of Parvat Mahārāja. Lokanātha Swami had written to you that they wanted to donate the temple plus twenty-four bighās of land, and you had replied back that he should accept it. So he left three men there from his party, and they registered the land in your name, including the mandira. At that place Lord Caitanya had visited on occasion, going back and forth between Bengal...
Prabhupāda: Baribhada? That place is called Baribhada?
Jayapatākā: Now it's called Bhadrak. They're... Just a few hundred yards from the place of the mandira is the place where Lord Caitanya sat where He was staying for five days when He was there. Then about two miles away on another occasion He stayed at a Gaura..., at a Rādhā-Madana-mohana or some mandira. Lord Caitanya's been going there on occasion. It's in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. It mentions the place. And the people who have given us the temple, they are the descendants of the devotee with whom Lord Caitanya stayed with. They're the same family. And so they're very enthusiastic, and they want to give all help. They've made a couple of... Although it's a small place, they've already made a couple of members, life patron members, and they're trying to collect donation. There's a college there, and some of the professors of the college come regularly to the temple, and they are chanting japa and they're bringing their students and other colleagues.
Prabhupāda: Good field.
Jayapatākā: Yes, although it's a village-type area, it seems to be good field. The people are not at all envious but quite cooperative. Also just about a quarter mile from the mandira there's a gośālā which has got 33 acres, about 100 bighās of land and about 100 cows. Cows are not so good cows, but there's nice, pākā buildings and good facilities. It's managed by some Marwaris. So they're willing to give that over to us in the future if we want. It's very nearby the temple. When I was there I gave a lecture at one temple, and about two, three hundred people came without any advertisement. In Haridaspur, at their Janmāṣṭamī festival they had... Two thousand people came. They had a huge crowd. And every one of the villagers, they organized the whole thing there, the leaders---gathered firewood, helped with distribution. We sent some devotees from Māyāpur. Bhakti-prabhāva Swami sends his obeisances to Your Divine Grace.
Hari-śauri: What about Maheśa Paṇḍita's place?
Jayapatākā: They want that the case be dropped and that they be given jobs, like before. [laughter]
Jayapatākā: They're sending messenger requesting that there should be some type of agreement whereby the charges against them are dropped, the case is dropped, and that they're given the old jobs back.
Prabhupāda: The charges are made by the government. We cannot drop. Do you follow?
Jayapatākā: Yes. The charges can't be dropped by us, but if the two parties make a type of compromise agreement and file a petition to the court...
Prabhupāda: But now the fight is not between them and us. The fight is between government and them.
Jayapatākā: Many barristers in Calcutta say that if due to political pressure, this or that, some people come and ask us to try to file a petition for dropping charges, that there's no need to do that, because the case is well in our favor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.
Jayapatākā: Yes. No, we have no intention to drop the charges. That will not clear our name. The day I returned, the Secretary General... Rather, the General Secretary of the State Congress Party, Mr. K. K. Sukla, he just happened to visit our mandira, and he heard the whole story, and he said that he'll give whatever support he can, and once they..., if they get back into any power, then he will see that our programs get full assistance. Then our lawyer told us that he has been talking to some ministers in the present Communist government, and they're saying that they're willing to support our movement if we do some works that are beneficially for the people. They're not saying that we're not doing any so far, but for any future, other things like the bridges or the schemes we have, they're willing to give us support for those. By your mercy everything is gradually changing around. [pause] The tantric astrologer there, he gave some predictions.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Jayapatākā: Well, about two weeks ago he had told Bhavānanda that he would be called to Vṛndāvana and that all the GBCs or leaders of the Society would be called to Vṛndāvana to see Your Divine Grace. He said that actually Your Divine Grace is a pure Vaiṣṇava, and like type of avatāra, empowered person of Kṛṣṇa, so that he doesn't..., he shouldn't really speak anything, because he's simply a tantric type of astrologer, 'cause you are able to change your fate or change the, er, according to your desire. He predicted that all the GBCs would be coming. He said that up till the November 28th is the last date of the sickness, and that after that, then your sickness... You would take a month or so to fully recuperate, and then from January on you'd be quite healthy again, and for at least seven years you wouldn't have any trouble with health. The big day... He put the biggest day at November 28th.
Hari-śauri: The worst day, or...?
Jayapatākā: That's the end of the bad period.
Hari-śauri: I'll get the other chart. This man in Delhi did another chart.
Prabhupāda: Why November 28th?
Jayapatākā: Why? That's just his... He may or may not be accurate.
Bhavānanda: What is the occurrence on that day?
Jayapatākā: He said that that's the last day of the...
Bhavānanda: That's the day Venus changes houses.
Jayapatākā: Is it?
Kīrtanānanda: That's the day Venus changes houses.
Jayapatākā: He said that he is praying that Kṛṣṇa will keep you here, 'cause without a pure devotee in the world then everything becomes dark. [pause] West Bengal Council for Child Welfare and the West Bengal Government Health Department Inspector came out and inspected our distribution. We have five centers where we distribute five days a week, Monday through Friday, the foodstuff. We eat another thing given by the government. We prepare that and offer it to the Deity and distribute that from our temple as well as from a nearby village. The local villagers help to distribute. Right now twelve hundred people are taking every day. So they were very satisfied with the arrangement. And one of the centers is Māyāpur village. They had been refusing to take, and he said, "You just change and put into another village. They're not the only poor people in the world. Any other village can take." They are very favorable to our program. They've given us a full quota that daily 1,846 people can get food, and they'll bear the costs of the grain and oil, etc.
Prabhupāda: What is this preparation?
Jayapatākā: It's wheat that's chipped. It's called bulgar wheat. It's wheat that's chipped into small pieces so that it's... It's like oversized sūjī, about three times the size of sūjī, and that's just boiled and cooked with oil and some gūr and spices. Or it can also be cooked with vegetables and spices. It's supposed to be nutritious, healthy, strength-giving food. Māyāpur Muslims tried to get the other Muslims in other villages not to take it because it was being given by us, but they said, "Why we shouldn't take? Just because you're giving them trouble doesn't mean we shouldn't take." So now they've all rebelled, and they're all taking now prasāda. He gave us address where we can get powdered milk possibly also.
Prabhupāda: It is mixed with powder milk?
Jayapatākā: What we have right now isn't mixed with powdered milk. We want to mix powdered milk with it, but this department ran out of powdered milk, so another department has it. This is... They give oil to cook it in, like halavā type, vegetable oil. It's like a cereal that they have in the West, in America and some places. Like dalya, dalya they call in Western India.
Prabhupāda: They take it relishably?
Prabhupāda: How much they can take?
Jayapatākā: Well, the government calculates that each person gets 80 grams of dalya and 7 grams of oil, and when that's cooked that comes to nearly about four, five hundred grams cooked per head. It's about three clay cups, three, four clay cups.
Kīrtanānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we could prop you up for a few minutes you could clear all that mucus out. It would come out much easier. Can we do that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]
Prabhupāda: [converses with sister in Bengali] Somebody may be sent to Imlitala Maṭha to call her son.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which maṭha, Prabhupāda? Imlitala Maṭha. All right. Pradyumna will go. Here, Bhakti-caru is here. Prabhupāda said someone should go to Imlitala Maṭha to call Pisimā's son.
Hari-śauri: Can we take the car?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A ricksha.
Prabhupāda: Give them here a small room.
Kīrtanānanda: Where, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Hari-śauri: They've already got a room.
Bhakti-caru: [Bengali with Prabhupāda about Śaktimātā and Pisimā]
Prabhupāda: [Bengali with Pisimā]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you want, Śrīla Prabhupāda? The fan. You want it more?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stop the fan.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is going on?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, a little bit.
Prabhupāda: Switch it off.
Upendra: Decrease. [break]
Jayapatākā: At first some of the devotees were disturbed, but after the Balarāma Appearance and Jhulan Pūrṇimā procession, that gave everyone new encouragement, because they saw how much the local people were appreciative of your work, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Everything will be settled up. Don't be disheartened. So when you left Māyāpur, things were in order? Hmm?
Jayapatākā: When I left Māyāpur, then everything was in order. Nitāicānda and Sarva-bhāvana Prabhu, as well as Pañca-ratna, are there. Actually, one of our workers, he is filing his own case against thirteen Māyāpur villagers, because they had attacked him while he was riding on his bicycle. So that was the only disturbance that had happened in the past month. But he's doing a case against them, and the police said that they would prosecute against them for what they did. So because the people are of such a bad nature, they are continually making such mistakes. This is even getting the authorities against them.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are guṇḍās. [laughter]
Jayapatākā: Because we are foreigners, so when they first came and said that "The foreigners, they are firing upon us Indians, although we did no wrong," so rather than take what is the actual situation, they immediately said, "Oh, yes, foreigners are firing upon our Indians." They took a national stand, influenced by different reasons. That is why that matter initially was against us. But now the fact that they are such type of guṇḍā and anti-social, they are just showing by their own mistakes. They can't hide their nature. They've already been summoned by the SDO on what's called śabdara,[?] that they are undesirable elements, twenty of them, on another account, because they had done something else wrong, and they're all on a type of bail, even apart from our case. So day by day it's becoming more and more apparent, their nature. You gave me the name Jayapatākā, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and I hope that by your mercy this name can become true. Then there will be victory in all these efforts.
Prabhupāda: It has become true.
Jayapatākā: Even after the incident, when Gopāla Kṛṣṇa went and saw the chief secretary of West Bengal, he requested him that "Please do not be discouraged by these incidents. Do not shift your plan from West Bengal. These things will all be settled up, and I'll see that there will be an impartial investigation and trial." The chief minister, he wrote a letter that his party... [break]
Prabhupāda: He wants to sell it. What does he want?
Jayapatākā: Right now he's asking... Actually, right now he's more eager than ever to sell his land. The sādhu next to us, Praphulla Brahmacari, both of us, we met together, and we made a verbal agreement that we wouldn't give him any hope for purchasing his land at a high price. And as the result, now because of this incident... Before he had some hope that some outside person would come and buy land. But now the outside people, they don't want to purchase land at Māyāpur. So now he has no other hope than to sell either to me, to us or to that brahmacārī. So now he's still asking four thousand. He's come from six to four. But it's even appearing that within a short time he may come down to three thousand.
Prabhupāda: So if he comes three thousand... How much land there is?
Jayapatākā: There's four bighās.
Prabhupāda: So purchase it. Do you follow?
Jayapatākā: Yes. That brahmacārī, he would purchase it also. If you wanted to have him purchase, he would purchase and give us a piece. He said he would give us a piece alongside the building as big as we want, and he would purchase the rest.
Prabhupāda: My idea is it is a land where we shall dig another pond. No building.
Jayapatākā: Build another pond.
Jayapatākā: The pukura. That land, at least at the front... The land at the... The whole length is very long and wide.
Prabhupāda: Long and wide.
Jayapatākā: And it would be a very... It's not so big to be a pukura. The whole width of the land, I think, is about sixty feet wide.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It sounds like Prabhupāda wants a moat.
Bhavānanda: We could make a moat, a water barrier, so no one... [laughs] They couldn't attack from the back of the building.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that your idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You dig the earth and make it a lake like.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right along the building?
Prabhupāda: No. Throw the earth this side and that side. Automatically it will be like a small canal.
Kīrtanānanda: Put crocodiles. [laughter]
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I was somewhat disturbed after the incident, but I'm feeling much better now. After that, in the jail, and I was discouraged, I was feeling, "Oh, Śrīla Prabhupāda is working so hard to develop this Māyāpur, and the people don't appreciate it or... What is the use?" But that I think was... That's all gone now. So many people, they're coming, and books are being distributed. Increase.
Jayapatākā: Bhavānanda, when he... Just the day after he left here, there was a letter addressed to him. One gentleman wrote and said that "I am fifty years old and I am a M.A...." He was a professor of something. And then he said that "Now my children are all grown up and I'm simply working. So I have heard that you are a pure Vaiṣṇava, so I want to take shelter and serve Kṛṣṇa at your āśrama." So although people are putting in paper so many things, but they are understanding that "No, he is a Vaiṣṇava." So people believe what they want to believe. So whatever... It's all that... The devotees are devotees. When we see people, they always say, [Bengali]. They don't believe it that the report is true. Everyone doubts the reports. Only those that are of envious mind, they believe in, because they want to believe that.
Prabhupāda: What... [Bengali]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Jayapatākā: They are asking that... They all think that actually the matter was not properly presented. So they're always asking that "Everything is now all right? Was it actually a fact or not?" In other words, they don't believe the reports that were given in the paper. They feel that, just from their own side, although they don't have any access to the truth, they all have a faith that the thing as it was presented couldn't have happened.
Prabhupāda: So you can sit me up and wash.
Jayapatākā: I think...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Should we bathe your whole body now?
Prabhupāda: Not now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just face and hand. Okay. [break]
Prabhupāda: [Bengali with Bhakti-caru and Pisimā, including about diet and solid foods, kitri]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Two telegrams came for you. One of them was sent by one of your Godbrothers.
Prabhupāda: Who is he?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mādhava Mahārāja. He sent you a telegram from Chandigarh. It says, "Extremely anxious for your health. Praying to Śrīla Prabhupāda and Lord Gaura-Kṛṣṇa for Their blessings unto you."
Prabhupāda: So send him back telegram = "Thank you. Excuse my offenses---all Godbrothers." What you have written?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Thank you. Excuse my offenses---all Godbrothers."
Prabhupāda: What is the other say here?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other telegram is from Australia.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Dearest Śrīla Prabhupāda, please do not leave us, for without your lotus feet we have no shelter. We are trying to distribute more books. Your eternal servants at Sydney Mandir."
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am willing to stay. After all, it is Kṛṣṇa's desire. [Bengali with Bhakti-caru]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Kīrtana is our life.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Two new Kṛṣṇa book trilogies arrived from Brazil.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Portuguese. How many copies are printed?
Hṛdayānanda: Altogether, about one hundred thousand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One hundred thousand copies printed.
Prabhupāda: Ah, Hṛdayānanda has come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja is here.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Printing of book is our real work. [Bengali] [kīrtana]
Prabhupāda: Let me see the book.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: The book.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is easy to see. Śrī Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Your picture is there on the back.
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very nice. Pictures are in the front.
Prabhupāda: How many copies?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One hundred thousand.
Prabhupāda: Oh! How we are selling?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How they are selling, Hṛdayānanda?
Hṛdayānanda: Very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good, he said.
Hṛdayānanda: Over a thousand per day.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Over one thousand per day are selling in Brazil.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is the price?
Hṛdayānanda: Price? They're charging to the public around eighty cents.
Prabhupāda: So you have got a...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: A good collection?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good collection, Hṛdayānanda?
Prabhupāda: Print more books.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. Also in Brazil the Bhāgavatam is very, very popular.
Prabhupāda: This is life. This material world and the bones... The bones are not our... This is life. We are not concerned with bones and stones. Our real concern is the living force. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. The living force which is sustaining the bones... Bone is not important. It may remain; it may go. It doesn't matter. Real life, what is sustaining the bone, is steady. We have got history that there was a ṛṣi, he had only bones. So there is a science by which you can sustain life---only bones. Hiraṇyakaśipu did it, practically.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are also doing it, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So take care of the bones as long as possible. Real life is here. Always remember that. And material world means they are simply all protecting bones and flesh together. They have no idea what they are. Bones and flesh. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. Apareyam. It is useless. Not useless---inferior. Real? That jīva-bhūta, which is sustaining. Thank you very much. Print books, and as I have given in my will, half, again print, and half spent for propaganda as you like. In this way go on. Jayapatākā, you are doing that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayapatākā, are you doing that? Half spending and half for printing?
Jayapatākā: In Bengal, because the people are so poor, so there we are giving the book and just taking five or ten percent profit margin...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Jayapatākā: ...for the small books, for propaganda purpose, so that we can reach many people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whatever propaganda require you spend, but print books and distribute. Whatever English book we have got, if we translate into Bengali, we have got enough stock.
Jayapatākā: Yes. We have a treasure house.
Prabhupāda: In this way, in all languages, distribute. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Jayapatākā: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [kīrtana] [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You replied to Mādhava Mahā...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll reply it in your name, telegram from you in your name. I'll do the needful. Should I close these curtains or leave them open?
Prabhupāda: No harm open.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No harm open. Okay. Should I open the window? Get some fresh air, morning air? [break] [Bengali conversation with Niṣkiñcana Kṛṣṇa dāsa and others. Bhakti-caru and other devotees show some books = "This is Spanish. Portuguese." "Swahili; African."] [end]