Room Conversation , Vṛndāvana , 1977-10-03

[Bengali conversation between kavirāja and Prabhupāda as kavirāja examines Prabhupāda, with comments by Bhagatjī]

[Sac-cid-ānanda whispers what kavirāja has said]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then that creates mucus. Śrīla Prabhupāda? One problem is that that milk, drinking milk, creates mucus.

Kavirāja: [Bengali conversation with others]

Prabhupāda: Cough.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then when he coughs he cannot sleep.

Kavirāja: [Bengali---discussing pure milk and milk powder mixture with Prabhupāda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [to Sac-cid-ānanda] Can you explain what he said?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Prabhupāda asked him, "Can I take powdered milk?" He said, "No." Only pure cow's milk will cure him, and that cough coming, that will cure his... That cure is there.

Prabhupāda: So that pure cow's milk... [Bengali conversation] ...proportion... [Bengali---"so much milk, so much water"]

Bhagatjī: When the cough comes out, it will take out all the disease.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cough. One trouble is that the cough stops sleeping. When Prabhupāda's coughing, he cannot sleep properly.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants you to cough more, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: He said cough should come out.

Kavirāja: [Bengali] Barley, Horlicks.

Prabhupāda: No, no... [Bengali---about Horlicks tonic]

Sac-cid-ānanda: Horlicks tonic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tonic.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali---about Horlicks tonic] What is the name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complan.

Kavirāja: Ācchā. [Bengali] Complan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good, right?

Kavirāja: [Bengali] Complan. Best.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We brought it from London. Best, he says.

[Prabhupāda and kavirāja discuss Complan and Horlicks in Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about milk? He wants you to take milk also with the Complan?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Let us take the Complan only. [Bengali]

Kavirāja: No milk. [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: He says it is a very nourishing diet. Milk should be given also.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: It is nectar, he said.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But it's nectar when you can digest it. You can digest it.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can try it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The kavirāja seems to think that by coughing and having the cough come out, it's not bad. He says it will bring out impurities in the body. It seems to me you don't like to cough, because it disturbs your sleep. From what I understand from what Bhagatjī has translated...

Prabhupāda: Complan he recommended.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He recommends that. Anything for the swelling, did he say, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Bhagatjī: That powder. That is same treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Powders. Is that all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Bhagatjī: ...and they all should be covered with some woolen cloth. Should not be exposed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's hot, too hot, though. Śrīla Prabhupāda? You want us to give you powders again for taking the swelling? Hands and...?

Bhagatjī: He said nothing is wrong. Only weakness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said nothing is wrong, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: On that I understand. But weakness is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Too much weakness. Now we're getting hopeful again, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any ādā? Is that what Prabhupāda asked? You asked for ādā, Prabhupāda? Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of your sannyāsī preachers has just arrived, Haṁsadūta Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Kavirāja: [Bengali] ...heart trouble... [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Musk. He's getting that.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Call Sac-cid-ānanda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we're just calling for him.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali conversation]

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: He wants that "Once a day, two times I should be informed the condition."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twice a day. Okay. What times?

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: At five o'clock in the evening.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Once a day only?

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: Once only. [translating:] "What is the change after the medicine, I want to know."

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No bath.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: By the towel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Towel bath.

Kavirāja: [Bengali] [demontrates rubbing to clean]

Prabhupāda: Dry. [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dry. With a damp gāmchā?

Kavirāja: Dry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dry gāmchā.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How to make the body clean without water?

Bhagatjī: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: Hot water. Take out all water and...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: After putting the powder?

Bhagatjī: After putting the powder. Get hot water.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: What about cool water on the head?

Kavirāja: [Bengali---demontrates rubbing with dry gāmchā]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about drinking grape juice?

Kavirāja: [Bengali] Pure honey.

Bhagatjī: Some honey mixed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We use miśri water.

Kavirāja: No. [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: In the grape juice mix some honey.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Honey, not miśri.

Kavirāja: Pure honey. [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: Pomegranate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pomegranate juice.

Bhagatjī: And pineapple?

Kavirāja: [Bengali] No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pomegranate and grape. Any others?

Bhagatjī: Mosambi?

Kavirāja: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda doesn't like it. But grape and pomegranate.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were doing that in the morning. Honey and ādā. Raisins and what?

Bhagatjī: [Bengali] Big one?

Kavirāja: [Bengali] Big. Dry.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali with kavirāja]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What do you do with that powder bath?

Kavirāja: [Bengali] ...heart trouble... [Bengali] Complan... [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can take after bathing, after morning. He brushes his teeth, and then...

Kavirāja: [Bengali---says it's all right for Prabhupāda to take darśana of the Deities; laughter]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali with kavirāja]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll carry Prabhupāda downstairs.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali with kavirāja]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa = Once a day. Very good. What time?

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa = Whatever he says will be all right.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not... [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the afternoon.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Bhagatjī: After nine. Between nine and ten he'll come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every day. So we'll send a car to [indistinct]. Nine o'clock on.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he will take darśana of the Deities now. You will come also?

Bhagatjī = [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now is the time.

Kavirāja: [Bengali] [break]

Prabhupāda: The kavirāja said that my life is finished; now by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. So under the circumstances, whatever medicinal instruction he gives, strictly follow properly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot understand Bengali. Bhagatjī can understand...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Hindi, also Bengali. Sac-cid-ānanda also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but neither of them are like Bhakti-caru was.

Prabhupāda: So call him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's what I'm going to do, because the difference is this = Sac-cid-ānanda is a little scatterbrained. He's scatterbrained; he's not very clear-headed. And Bhagatjī has so many ideas. But Bhakti-caru is smart. Bhakti-caru speaks Bengali and he's smart.

Prabhupāda: And Hindi also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Hindi. Bhagatjī just has too many ideas. Just like Bhagatjī's big idea is "I have to give Prabhupāda fresh cow's milk from my cows." He's thinking, Bhagatjī... His thing is he's thinking already, "I want to give Prabhupāda milk, cow's milk." But someone should be here who doesn't want anything except to take the kavirāja's instructions. I get afraid about Bhagatjī like that.

Prabhupāda: No. Kavirāja also said, but with...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādā.

Prabhupāda: Ādā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But only once.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And at night, Complan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said you can take Complan, I think, more than once, if you want.

Prabhupāda: No, he's coming. Ask him then. The best thing will be... Call him immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru. All right. I think so also. And he would want to be here. I have no... None of us have any problem working cooperatively. It's just that I don't want to see someone be given this responsibility who's not qualified, like Sac-cid-ānanda. I don't want to trust you to his care, Sac-cid-ānanda's care. That would be very bad on our part. And Bhagatjī's just... He just... I don't know how to explain it, but I'd rather it be Bhakti-caru.

Prabhupāda: No. All of them can cooperate. Anyway, call him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. What does the kavirāja say about your chances, Śrīla Prabhupāda? What does he say about your chances of surviving? [Prabhupāda coughs] How can you drink milk when the cough is like this? I cannot understand how they can recommend milk.

Prabhupāda: No, that counteracts any...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādā.

Prabhupāda: He is giving medicine for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. I couldn't follow anything. It was all in Bengali. [Prabhupāda coughs up mucus]

Prabhupāda: So far that... He said that "Life is finished, and you are simply still living by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. And there is still life. Let us try it." Now he is coming, and ask him daily what...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He speaks English. He spoke with me in English. I think he speaks some English, the kavirāja, a little bit. He's a little... So you feel a little hopeful?

Prabhupāda: Eh. For me, either live or die, I don't mind. But if you are trying for my life, try it very seriously. That is my formula. No negligence. Whatever he advises, that is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's good if you can try and make the cough come out, that mucus. You have to give a little extra exertion, I think, to get it out. Is that the bedsore, Śrīla Prabhupāda? [indistinct whispering between Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Hari-śauri---"We have expectorant"] [pause] Whoever does this medicine with the kavirāja should be intelligent person. That's all I'm saying. As you said to me, "Don't be negligent." Of course, Your Divine Grace knows me very well, so you called me to tell me that I should cooperate. But my cooperation is immediately there when I see someone is intelligent enough to do it. So Bhakti-caru is fit for that.

Prabhupāda: So call him immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. He said you're living by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. That means it's a miracle that you're alive.

Prabhupāda: I tell him...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Bombay you appeared to be very hopeless for living. Now that you're in Vṛndāvana, I think you will become more hopeful.

Prabhupāda: That kavirāja was also hopeless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which one?

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [laughs] [aside to Hari-śauri] That Bombay kavirāja was also hopeless.

Hari-śauri: Today's was as well?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. That Bombay kavirāja was a businessman. He had a Seiko watch on, special Cross pen, pān in the mouth. He was a pākā bāniyā. [Prabhupāda coughs up mucus] This man appears to be a genuine kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: I think so. So are you sending him telegram?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'll do that right now.

Prabhupāda: Where is Haṁsadūta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to see him?

Prabhupāda: I'll sit down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll sit up? [break] Should I read it, Śrīla Prabhupāda? "The battle royale over the existence of God as creator of life pursued relentlessly by the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and debunked with equal disbelief to match by the president of the Rationalist Association has fizzled out. Dr. Abraham Kovoor's long-standing challenge, backed with an offer of Rs. 100,000 to anyone who could provide proof of the divine creation of life, was taken up by Haṁsadūta Swami of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. The Swami increased the offer made by Dr. Kovoor to one million rupees in foreign exchange if he could produce life---a mosquito or a mouse---from inert chemicals to prove his contention that life originated from chance biochemical combinations. The rationalist doctor has now put the ball in the Kṛṣṇa court. He counters the challenge, calling upon the God-believers to demonstrate before the public that God is the creator of life and to prove it with the creation of one." What a nonsense rascal. That's the whole article, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: We revived after the riots and trouble in Sri Lanka. We again issued notice that we would revive the challenge for the 26th of last month. And when our devotee went to Kovoor to hand him..., to give him the notice, Dr. Kovoor was laid up in bed, and he informed our man that he had cancer and he expected to die within the next two months or so. And so we didn't hold our program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, you didn't hold it.

Haṁsadūta: No, we didn't hold it. I also came down with malaria, and the press, because of the intermittent trouble, they sort of lost the momentum. They didn't publicize it enough, so we just... But the public has got the idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That the guy's a phony.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He must be very embarrassed, Kovoor.

Haṁsadūta: Well, the public has now really relished the whole situation. But it seemed to me afterwards that this same technique could be applied in any university or anywhere where such a man is propagating this idea. As soon as you find one out, then make a public announcement that a program will be conducted, he's invited, and such-and-such amount of money would be offered if he can substantiate his idea of inert chemicals being the origin of life. Because I saw that the public interest became very keen, especially when they saw there was such a huge reward being offered to substantiate such a widely accepted scientific idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is a challenge to the, all these Nobel Prize–winner scientists. [chuckles] So our position is better. Hmm?

Haṁsadūta: Oh, yes. The new government there, they pride themselves in being a dharmiṣṭha society, based on the teachings of Buddha. So I submitted an open letter to the same press, that "How is it dharmiṣṭha if the government is in fact supporting the organized slaughterhouses, that the government maintains the liquor industry, the tobacco industry, the tea industry, and they encourage cinema, nightclub, hotel, tourism, which encourages prostitution?" like that. I said, "Where is the dharma? Dharma means four things = no animal slaughter, no intoxication, like that." The editor promised that he would publish it today. So if they publish it, it will also be a very controversial...

Prabhupāda: So, and they are giving us some status to stay there?

Haṁsadūta: No, we have no official status. The way to function there is that you can stay for six months if you bring three dollars a day for that, and then go out, and you can come back the next day. They want to get rid of all religious groups. They want only their Buddhist group. They want to make the Buddhist religion as the state religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: At least they talk like that. And so all the religious groups there, the Christians and others, they're phasing them out by taking away their resident visas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Well, the Tamils are in a very bad position. They've all fled to the Jafna area, the north area.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why are they so against the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Well, the government, the politicians, they incite the people to create trouble, and in this way they try to assume office. They just take advantage of the people in this way, stir them up.

Prabhupāda: Tamils are poor men?

Haṁsadūta: Tamils? No, the Tamils were all the business centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the reason.

Haṁsadūta: It was actually the Tamils who agitated for the British to get out, and once the British got out, then the Sinhalese pushed out the Tamils because they're a minority---about three million Tamils to eleven million Sinhalese. The economic and political situation is very, very deteriorated in that country.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of preaching can you do now?

Haṁsadūta: We can preach because we're not identified as Tamils or Hindus, because we are white, so that still attracts the people. We preach in public halls, you know, rent hall...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they lifted the curfew.

Haṁsadūta: The curfew's over now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do the Sinhalese take interest as much as the Tamils?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they do, actually. Actually the Tamils in Sri Lanka, they're all demigod worshipers. They worship Murgā and Gaṇeśa and Śiva. There's practically not a single Kṛṣṇa temple on the whole island. I was really surprised. And, erm,... Well, that's the situation. They're all demigod worshipers.

Prabhupāda: Demigod worship means followers of Vedas.

Haṁsadūta: The Buddhists, they have very nice temples there. In all their temples they have diorama exhibits about the life of Buddha and other figures from their line, but done very nicely, much nicer than the Hindu temples, very clean. But all Buddhists, they don't follow Buddhist even. They all eat meat, and, they say, they even drink and have women. Everything deteriorated. [to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:] Is it all right to speak?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Haṁsadūta: I once heard that when some devotees wanted to buy a church in America you suggested that they should keep the altar and next put Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and give simultaneous lecture from Bible and from Bhagavad-gītā. I was thinking that in Sri Lanka, if it would be all right to have a deity of Lord Buddha and speak simultaneously on the Dhammapada and also Bhagavad-gītā, showing how Bhagavad-gītā is beyond the stage of nirvāṇa. Is that a good idea, Prabhupāda, or not?

Prabhupāda: Good idea, provided you can present properly.

Haṁsadūta: Because Buddhists come and they ask, "If Lord Buddha was an incarnation of Viṣṇu, then why did he not teach about God? Why did he not teach about the soul?" So I always explain to them it's like teaching A-B-Cs and teaching advanced literature. He was teaching A-B-C. That was required. He did not go into higher subject matter.

Prabhupāda: First of all the Buddha wanted to make them sinless, "Don't kill." And you are not following that even. His business was to stop sinful life. In sinful life one cannot understand God as He is.

Haṁsadūta: Once Lord Buddha, they say, was sitting under a bo tree, and a leaf fell down. He picked it up and he said, "The knowledge I am giving you is like this leaf compared to the tree of knowledge." So I always quote that. They appreciate that, "Oh, yes," that beyond nirvāṇa there is brahma-nirvāṇa, and beyond that there is Paramātmā, and above that there is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa means sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. That is nirvāṇa. Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityaj... Parityajya means "giving up," and that is nirvāṇa. It requires expert presentation.

Haṁsadūta: And in all the temples they keep a Viṣṇu Deity. All the Buddhist temples, they have a Viṣṇu Deity. They have a saying that Viṣṇu promised Lord Buddha to protect the Buddhist religion in Sri Lanka for five thousand years in this age. They say that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many more years they have to go?

Haṁsadūta: I don't know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I'm thinking to go today to the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple to see how things are going on. You told me regularly to check there whenever we're here?

Prabhupāda: Not immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm. Better not to go today. Okay. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...keeping money in the bank. Means so long I think that the bank keeping money is my pocket. And as soon as I've got the sentiment that these men are interested to keep our money in their pocket, I'll be very careful not to deposit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Hari-śauri: Not to what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not to deposit. Yes. He said that to me today. He said, "Now your fixed deposits are decreasing, and your bank balances in all accounts are very minimal." The manager said this to me today.

Prabhupāda: Because they are harassing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because... The reason... We are afraid of their psychology that they think that our money is now theirs. And that is giving us fear.

Prabhupāda: They're thinking like that. We cannot freely have our money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, it's only with the greatest difficulty that you were able to transfer this fixed deposits. Four times they came to you, and for even a half hour to one hour at a time went on and on, explaining to Prabhupāda why he should not do this. Really, the best thing is that, I mean, if I can give this humble advice, is that someone like Girirāja should deal with them instead of... Because I feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they take advantage of you when they talk with you, and that makes me feel very bad to see.

Prabhupāda: Then tell Girirāja. Ask Girirāja to take...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because they see that you're not that well, and they also know that you're so merciful. And you're also a local Brijabāsī in a way. Therefore they're always against any of us taking any participation. It's the funniest thing. I explained something to Girirāja. He's been dealing with so many legal things for so long that he's become like a lawyer, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Central Bank is very straightforward.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Um-hmm. Very good and straightforward.

Hari-śauri: These people here, because they're small-time and because you're such a good customer that they're scared that their reputation with the bigger bank will become spoiled if you take money out and don't deposit. They're very keen. It's a false prestige thing for themselves to try to keep your money in their bank. There's so much personal motivation there, now they're making us their servant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one Dr. Sharma wanted to open a Gurukula account. So they told him, "You have no authority whatsoever. Bhagatjī has no authority, Akṣayānanda has no authority, Gopāla... Only Prabhupāda has all authority." The funny thing about this, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that according to our memorandum, they're not correct. Actually, according to the memorandum, two members of the Bureau can pass a resolution to open an account. But the most amazing thing is they don't accept the Bureau. They accept something called the Governing Body, which legally in India doesn't have any weight. And when I tried to explain to them that there's a memorandum and there's a Bureau, they said, "We don't accept it. Everything is Prabhupāda, and he's the chairman of the Governing Body." When I told this to Girirāja, Girirāja just laughed and said that...

Prabhupāda: If Girirāja can deal with these men, then let him do it immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Very good. He can, because he thinks legally, and that's how you have to deal with these men. They're actually small time, and they're just harassing us because we're acting in a very gentlemanly way and they're acting in a very ungentlemanly way. Anyway, we're not going to take out our fixed deposits. The ones that are there should be matured. But when they're matured, if we want to transfer them to somewhere else, we should have the freedom to do that and not be bound to have to keep the money there. That's the only point. And we'll be bringing so much money. Your Divine Grace has plans for making Vṛndāvana very much developed. So they should not worry like that. None of our other bankers are worried. They see sometimes we take the money, sometimes we bring money. But because of the way they're dealing, we don't want to bring any money. I'll tell Girirāja to..., if he can deal with this matter, that he should take it up. He wanted to meet them. He said he wanted to see what is the...

Prabhupāda: Let him meet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. They need his specimen signature anyway, so that will be a good reason to go. Actually, most customers they have are small, so they're afraid of the bank. But a Society like ours with so many connections in Delhi and other places doesn't have to be in the same position as an individual.

Hari-śauri: These men here, they want some false prestige for keeping Prabhupāda as...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They want the money also.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They want to use the money in the bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the point. They get elevated positions.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Advertises them very nicely without...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they get raises. They get promotions. But they've lost money instead of gotten more, because of the way they've dealt with Prabhupāda.

Hari-śauri: Mean consciousness. Kṛpaṇas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't want you to have to get involved again, Śrīla Prabhupāda, with them. I really, you know...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say do the needful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right. I dealt with them nicely this morning, and they were very satisfied. I gave them a little prasādam. They were happy. You know, I did as you were dealing with them. Now you have to allow us to give you some relief, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [devotees offer obeisances]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm going to go with Girirāja to the bank today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's why I was going to go to Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and at the same time go to the bank, because they're right next to each other.

Prabhupāda: No, do the needful. Girirāja is here. I have already given everything in writing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Sac-cid-ānanda: [conversation with kavirāja]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What question is he asking?

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sac-cid-ānanda, what is he asking?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Hot cloth, that Prabhupāda massaging.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's asking whether we did it? We didn't get it. Tell him

Upendra: There is no hot cloth, hot-water cloth. Dry cloth.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Sac-cid-ānanda: [translating] Hot cloth, ghee and ginger juice, hot, massaging over.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ghee and ginger juice.

Sac-cid-ānanda: And making hot...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Massage on chest for mucus to come out.

Prabhupāda: If the mucus come out, the prāna[?] come out. [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda] Two medicine for cough.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali---Sac-cid-ānanda translating for Tamāla Kṛṣṇa = "Musk. He's asking that we need musk."]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Musk. He's getting that.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Sac-cid-ānanda: Prabhupāda pulse is all right. Pulse beat is all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But this mucus. Whether the drinking of milk causes mucus.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had milk yesterday?

Upendra: He had Complan three times.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday we did not give any milk.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't take any milk yesterday. Then why the cough came? No, milk won't take away cough.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [taking to Sac-cid-ānanda] The main business is to take away the cough. Wait a second. Just try to understand. No, no, listen. When the cough comes out, Prabhupāda cannot sleep. When Prabhupāda cannot sleep, then he becomes weaker.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, the kavirāja gave you medicines which made the cough come out more. That was his idea, to do that purposely. I don't know if you want that, but that was... His idea was to make the cough come out more. You took it as that the medicine might not have been acting, but according to him, he wanted that to happen.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda] Medicine. Hot water, medicine. [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The swelling has increased since yesterday. It was never so much as today. The mucus was never so much as today.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali to kavirāja]

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Prabhupāda just say?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Prabhupāda telling that he already gave two dose of these medicines here, that according to Prabhupāda thinking he will use the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He will take the medicine.

Sac-cid-ānanda: If necessary, he will stop one time medicine getting, or again he can try to take. But if Prabhupāda like, he can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Prabhupāda just said?

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

[Bengali---Prabhupāda and Kavirāja]

Prabhupāda: The havoc caused, the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Havoc caused by medicine. Prabhupāda says the medicine caused havoc.

[Bengali---Kavirāja and Prabhupāda; Sac-cid-ānanda explains something]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Couldn't digest it. That's the real issue. He can't even digest the medicine.

[Bengali---Prabhupāda and Kavirāja; talk of a prescription]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [whispering] It's an expectorant. I still don't understand. They want Prabhupāda to take an expectorant. What does it do?

Upendra: Drowsiness. Chloroform.

Sac-cid-ānanda = [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that, Sac-cid-ānanda?

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Brahmānanda: Codeine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Must have codeine.

Upendra: No, it's chloroform.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Brahmānanda = It causes [indistinct], but it also knocks you out. [whispered conversations between devotees in background]

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was that, Sac-cid-ānanda?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Juice and [indistinct]. Drink juice.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda].

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Prabhupāda say, Sac-cid-ānanda?

Sac-cid-ānanda: Prabhupāda telling that today he cannot get medicine much. He should wait, and if he feel better tomorrow, he can see.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that, Sac-cid-ānanda?

Sac-cid-ānanda: I have explained one medicine to clear the cough. Doctor knows. I telling him immediately I all time use that to clear my cough, and when I feel bacteria and cough, immediately clean, and digestive power becomes so strong. He knows that. I ask him that please use him. This medicine is very difficult to digest, but that medicine is very easy digestion. And digestion power also there. He knows. I ask him to give one treatment on the mouth. Immediately cough will be clean---he can speak nicely, he can digest. Everything [indistinct] there. Heart is clear. [indistinct] is there. He knows everything. All time, I use that medicine to clean the cough, to make digestion power so strong. Very good medicine, very old medicine. He knows. I ask him to please prescribe that medicine, because this is very difficult to digest. Therefore Prabhupāda asked him, "Today I cannot take any medicine. I have to stop this medicine."

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Sac-cid-ānanda: Very good, very old medicine.

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you know it won't again cause more havoc? What is the guarantee? You're not Prabhupāda. You are a young man. Prabhupāda is old. So how do you know it will not do the same...

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can't make an experiment...

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Patent medicine.

Kavirāja: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda] ...heart stimulant... [Bengali]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The musk is for the heart?

Sac-cid-ānanda: To clean the heart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The heart. So I thought the heart was strong. If the heart is strong, why give him musk?

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Sac-cid-ānanda]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If the heart is strong, why give musk?

Kavirāja: [Bengali with Bhagatjī]

Bhagatjī: More strength.

Sac-cid-ānanda: Heart strength. To clean the cough also. The mental strength.

Abhirāma: But where can we get the real musk?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavatāśraya's supposed to be... [break] [end]