Conversations , Vṛndāvana , 1977-06-28

[audio very faint in places]

Prabhupāda: ...divorce, child-killing or making the children hippies, that all. Or find out some war to destroy them. When it is unmanageable, they declare war = "Engage these rascals." The politicians do that. When they cannot manage, they declare war, because they are not human beings; they are animals, Churchill and Hitler and this... "Start some war and finish this population." Or it may be nature's law. "When there is unnecessary population let there be war, famine, pestilence." That is one theory, Malthus' theory.

Śatadhanya: Whose?

Prabhupāda: Malthus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Malthus.

Prabhupāda: So I don't speak I am authorized. I have studied both ways.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what makes your books so unique = that others might have had some scholarly knowledge, but you have so much experience and realization packed into those books that it's so appealing, the scholars delight in reading the purports.

Prabhupāda: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say..., want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense---Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.

Śatadhanya: You are compassionate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tathā vinoda[?]. I have done on reality. I want to establish reality, not imagination. What is the use of giving some imaginative idea, just like this rascal Darwin? Everything rascal. No practical value. And he has written volumes of books, and people are accepting, "From monkey, man has come." That's all. But monkey is there; man is there. Where monkey is extinct? The whole theory is absolutely bogus, and people have accepted it. I never believed that. Anthropo... Anthropomor... No? The...?

Upendra: Anthropomorphism.

Prabhupāda: And... What do you call, this science?

Śatadhanya: Anthropology.

Prabhupāda: Anthropology. Anthropology we believe; as it is stated in the Vedas, we believe, one after another. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarāḥ... [Padma Purāṇa]. That is the... The soul is changing. So there is no question of... "Survival of the fittest," nonsense. Who is fit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one except the devotee is fit.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is dying. Who is the fittest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotee is alone eternal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, but for the devotees, they do not know. They are all rascals, animals. But here, this statement, "fittest," who is fittest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Materially no one.

Prabhupāda: Still the theory is going on, "Survival of the fittest."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say some are more fit than others.

Prabhupāda: But who is that fit, rascal?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the most fit?

Prabhupāda: Who is that? Show me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, today we said---an elephant can also be killed easily.

Prabhupāda: Everything is killed. "Fittest." Nobody is fittest in this world. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api [SB 2.1.4]. Everyone is asat. He'll not exist. That is statement of the... Bhāgavata never said, "Here is a person or animal, fittest." That is not Bhāgavata. Teṣāṁ nidhanaṁ pramattaḥ paśyann api na paśyati. The rascal is so mad that everything will be finished, and he is talking of "fittest." All theory; no practical. Unnecessarily spent millions and millions of dollars, that "We have gone to moon." Why? Why this bogus propaganda? What is the value? And they take pride. Now we are drawing picture how many miles away. It is impossible to find out. And why they make this bogus propaganda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's totally impossible they went to the moon.

Prabhupāda: No, they have not gone, but still, they are making such a big propaganda. What is the mentality?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cheaters, sense gratifiers.

Prabhupāda: Cheating propensity is so strong. There is cheating propensity in different way. From Brahmā it goes. That is a bad qualification. That should be finished. But they are trying to increase it. I have got some bad qualification; my business is to finish it. So what is the use of increasing it? I am a thief. I have got some habit, to steal. So shall I try to stop it or increase it? Which one is human?

Śatadhanya: To stop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they think this life is all in all, they think better somehow or other...

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. They are going all wrong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mahātmā Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: No. Nothing. Simply false pride, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And these are the people that we are preaching to.

Prabhupāda: That is our duty.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You preach to us.

Prabhupāda: In the distinction between two civilizations, they, they want to increase the bad qualification; we want to decrease them.

Śatadhanya: And yet they say we are bad.

Prabhupāda: They'll say. That is natural.

Śatadhanya: They say good is bad and bad is good---completely opposite.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's stated in the Gītā---the divine and demonic.

Śatadhanya: Divine and demonic natures.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you take that medicine this morning?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So he has brought? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He asked [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: So do you think we should bring the man here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no...

Prabhupāda: First of all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then, if it works, we can bring him. I'm still not fully satisfied. I think it works, but I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: Working very slowly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which isn't bad. You like slow rather than suddenly.

Prabhupāda: Slow and sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But let us see. When it is so slow, it's not sure yet. If you want, you could take a little rest before your massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You didn't get much rest outside.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. [break] I think they have suffered, regularly living with rats.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Calcutta and Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Poor quarter. Still they are happy. The rats are jumping over your body.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Yes, with one palace.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were telling me that there was one man who was living in a house. The roof was coming down, and it was raining, and he wouldn't leave. Some worker.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes. It is a different type of civilization, to become satisfied with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Other things are not very important. If it is possible to rectify it, don't bother about this. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Increase this qualification.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We find that to increase fasting on Ekādaśī day makes that newfound [indistinct] come like anything.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You begin to realize there's nothing else beside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Can't eat... Actually it's quite a nice realization. When food goes, then you realize that the shelter is also [indistinct]. With Kṛṣṇa you can go on chanting, reading Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: In Marwari community they have now degraded. Otherwise they are very nice. Now they have become, recently, in our [indistinct], hippies.

Śatadhanya: Hmm. The young... This new generation, we have seen. They are copying Western.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We must... That boy, that Dalmia's grandson, unless he comes to our gurukula, he will be spoiled for sure.

Prabhupāda: Hmm, hmm. But Dalmia agreed. That means if you approach the parents, you'll get students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Aurora's son, he agreed. I talked to him yesterday. I said "What about your son going to gurukula now?" He said, "I will send my son there."

Prabhupāda: They are [indistinct].

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Aurora is very qualified, very important. He was a judge in South Africa. He was an international lawyer. He graduated from Harvard, so many big schools---Oxford, Harvard. I know he wasn't lying. It's true. He held very good position.

Prabhupāda: Is Aurora pleader? Is Aurora pleader, you mean?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that barrister. He said he'll send his son on to our gurukula. We have to take very good care to make the gurukula bona fide and genuine. It's really lucky you got that Dr. Sharma. Clearly he's the best. I mean, he's already been principal of big schools.

Prabhupāda: Human activity should be guided toward Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then it is human. Otherwise it is animal. Take minimum demand, be happy, and make progress. That is the platform of progress. [indistinct---much of it faint] The same shape, [indistinct] they are improving to make straighter, short, topless, bottomless, in this way and that way, miniskirt. They are arranging. The thing is the same, but they want to change the taste in different way. No knowledge. They have no knowledge. Sex, you require under... You'll get it between husband and wife. There is no difficulty. What is the use of that? Daily pregnancy, daily... Three days divorce. Actually I saw in Chicago, within three weeks, three divorce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our temple?

Prabhupāda: No, no, some public...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that... And even the fact that they got married is more than most people do nowadays. They don't even get married.

Prabhupāda: There is no marriage. And in Bhāgavata says, "There will be no more marriage. Agreement."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sex agreement.

Śatadhanya: And in Switzerland, in the schools, they teach small children, "You should have sex at early age." They teach in school.

Prabhupāda: Switzerland.

Śatadhanya: Switzerland, yeah. They say they are the most liberal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore it's easy to see why your Guru Mahārāja said that this world is not a fit place for a gentleman.

Prabhupāda: As I told you many times, in the Western countries, so long I am in the temple, I am safe. And as soon as I go out of the temple, it is hell. And implica..., as they are attached. How they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one thing I noticed when I came to India. I felt, only in India, it's the only place that I could go out of the temple and still I felt it wasn't so hellish. I actually felt like that. You know, just like when we were living in Kamla Nagar in Delhi. There were many karmīs around, but still... Most of them... Many were vegetarians. Many, I could hear pūjā.

Prabhupāda: No, there is some practical life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Many devotees like to come to India to serve here in our movement because of that. The general culture still...

Śatadhanya: The atmosphere is conducive towards spiritual life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And here in Vṛndāvana it is fully transcendental.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially this Raman Reti. Every place here is an aśrama.

Prabhupāda: So just try to help them. Help them, introduce them, and give everything. That is my request. As far as possible, [indistinct]. I have such a big plan. Who'll merit the ideas? We never...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura uses the word "imbibe," that if Kṛṣṇa consciousness is imbibed from one pure soul to another.

Prabhupāda: That is paramparā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Disciplic succession.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma is there. Guru Mahārāja is present. [indistinct]

Upendra: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break] [very long pause] You'll take in your room, massage?

Prabhupāda: [indistinct]

Upendra: You want to go?

Prabhupāda: All right. What is the time?

Upendra: Oh, it's half past ten.

Prabhupāda: [indistinct]

Upendra: You came in from your garden at nine o'clock. Then we were talking. [end]