Morning Conversation , Bombay , 1977-04-30

Prabhupāda: Women should be taken care of---as daughter, as wife, as mother. Bās. No freedom. Then prostitution. Then spoiled the whole thing. Unwanted children, contraceptive, abortion. Very dangerous. In our society there are girls. They should live separately. They should be given full engagement, taken care of. No mixing. Then it will be spoiled. Both of them will be... We see big, big workers, sannyāsīs. Madhudvisa fell victim. The example is given = fire and butter. [laughs] You cannot say the butter will not melt even in fire. Woman is like fire, and man is like butter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The butter should be kept cool.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In a cool refrigerator, cool-headed. As soon as come in contact with the fire, agitate. The example is given. In Indian... Up to our time, restriction was very strict. Now it is slackened.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you see boys and girls freely mixing here, in India.

Prabhupāda: Without coeducation there is no college.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In American universities they have co-living. The bathrooms are the same bathroom now. They don't even have men's bathroom and women's toilet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's considered advancement, to come to the point of being animals here.

Prabhupāda: So our gurukula should be ideal. Not all these boys... You should take care of these things from the very beginning---if we want actually spiritual life. If we want to progress like animals, that is different thing, as the whole world is doing. We want to maintain an ideal institution. People may see. In Christian idea also, the nuns were separate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays the nuns, every... Twice a week they get their hair set. They wear miniskirt now.

Prabhupāda: And so many scandal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not strict anymore. Priests are smoking cigarettes, watching television.

Prabhupāda: If there is no training, naturally it will deteriorate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...and millions of Vaikuṇṭhalokas, planets, and the topmost planet is Goloka Vṛndāvana. This is the spiritual nature. This is material, within this universe, and that is spiritual. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ [Bg. 8.20] = "Another nature, which is indestructible." This is the whole situation. Now, how you show it, that you think over. This is only fragmental part of material creation. And each universe is floating in the..., like a football. Football floats in the water. It is like that. And each universe, half filled up with water, Garbhodakaśāyī. And the planetary system is hanging on that half–filled-up water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Above it.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. And if it is dropped, it falls in this ocean, as once it was, Varāha-mūrti saved it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Earth fell.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Earth, planet earth, fell down.

Prabhupāda: This is like that. So you have to, as far as possible... If you can, you have to demonstrate, "This is planetary system." So at least we shall show what is going on within this universe. And above... And each universe is covered with seven material elements. Each covering is ten times more than the other covering---earth, water, air, fire. A wonderful creation. And how it will be shown? So I have decided, therefore, that let us show something about this planetary, er, this universe. And others, we give idea. How it will be done, you think over as far as possible. [laughs] It is not these rascals' calculation, that every planet is rock and sand, and God had no business to create so many planets of rocks and sands to be discovered scientifically by these rascals' attaining them. Just see the fun, how far the godless men can dare to speak and think. How great rascals they are! Simply to deny the existence of God, that's all. That is their business. And the creation has no brain, eh? Asatyam. Anīśvaram: "There is no God. It is all false." Jagad āhur anīśvaram.

asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
jagad āhur anīśvaram
kim anyat kāma-haitukam

By action and reaction it is improving. Kāma-haitukam. Just like a man, woman, all of a sudden meet and there is a child. This is their reasoning. There is no plan. There is no brain. Such huge thing, how it has come into existence? [aside:] You can bring that water. Now you have to give some..., some idea people can understand. It is not possible to give complete. But it is a fact. The whole planetary system is hanging downwards. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhva-mūlam adhah-śākham aśvatthaṁ prāhur avyayam [Bg. 15.1]. That is a fact. It is hanging and moving. And moon is above the sun. They have never gone. Now they are exposing. "Moon walks."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Moon hoax.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In today's paper some scientist from some drug manufacturing company said that "In few years from now we will be able to do heart transplants..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "...in space." [laughs] Bluff.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can't even do it here, but they're going to do it in space.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They said there'll be no pressure, so it will be success. They're just bluffing.

Prabhupāda: No, they are thinking that they are speaking the right thing. But to a person who is in knowledge, just like, they'll take, the child is talking nonsense. They are thin... When the child talks, he talks very seriously. But the father laughs. Child does not know that he is talking nonsense. That is their foolishness. They're all nonsense. They do not know they are nonsense. Because "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss"---the whole world full of nonsense and rascals---if you speak something sensible, they'll laugh. He has stated that, that nobody understands even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. I have said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the article in the current news weekly they quoted Prabhupāda as saying that nobody even understands one line of Bhagavad...

Prabhupāda: No, you also understand now that charge, how it is a fact. The fact is, as it is in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You have to change your body. Then, if you have to change your body, then where is the question of nationalism? The first thing is mistake. And the nationalist leader, they are taking Bhagavad-gītā and jumping like dog on nationalism. Where is the question of nationalism? Answer me. Hmm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no real question, because...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no real question, because...

Prabhupāda: So why they are so much busy in solving the problems of nationalism?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because they are identifying themselves with their bodies.

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance. Rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be = then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out = "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead; I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre. I am not going to die. That if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die; I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking, "I am in charge of this road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking, "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others---"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"---but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi was there; he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there. They are coming and going like so many insects. Napoleon was there. Who cares for them? We are licking up their so-called activities = "Oh, Napoleon was so great. Gandhi was so great." And what he has done? The dog dancing. Who can understand that, unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious? What he has done actually? Has he stopped death? No. Population, birth, sterilization... Will they be able to stop it? Simply manufacturing concoction and jumping like cats and dogs. That's all. And if you say the real thing, mūrkhāṇāṁ upadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita], they'll become angry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We got a letter from Morarji Desai. It was written to Jagat-guru. Jagat-guru Swami got a letter from Morarji Desai.

Prabhupāda: Jagat-guru Swami, who is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's your... He's that disciple that was in Africa for a while.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Tall sannyāsī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was preaching in Africa for a while, and he was in India for a while also. He's one of your disciples.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He took sannyāsa last year with Haṁsadūta Swami.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His name is Jagat-guru.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He collected a big donation in Middle East once, and he gave it to you, twelve thousand dollars or some...

Prabhupāda: Our?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he got a letter. Should I read it to Your Divine Grace? "Dear..." It's signed by Morarji Desai. "Dear Shree Jagat-guru Swami, I thank you for your letter of April 4th and am grateful to you for your good wishes. You have cited some very wise sūtras from our ancient writings. Although I have been called upon to shoulder heavy responsibilities, it has been my endeavor in the past and it will be so in future to see that there is no hiatus between my public and private life. This is what I have learned from Gandhiji, and I have thus saved my life from contradictions. Thank you once again for your kind sentiments. Yours sincerely..."

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Jagat-guru Swami wrote to me that he is continuing his correspondence with Morarji Desai.

Prabhupāda: Then don't continue much. Then it will be spoiled.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Yeah, I'm not doing it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is he writing at all to Morarji Desai?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know. He's in England. He's independent, and I can't...

Prabhupāda: You can... One who... Don't.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said, "Don't ask Swami..."[?]

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not... He shouldn't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. What good is he going to do? Prabhupāda should tell him.

Prabhupāda: Don't become impertinent. Then he will say something. They'll he'll spoil the whole thing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He wrote to him from England. So I'll write to him.

Prabhupāda: Don't make much correspondence. It is courtesy he has replied. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually we read in the newspapers that he gets 8,700 letters a day.

Prabhupāda: The Morarji?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he's not personally replying all the... He didn't reply that letter. I don't think he did. He has a big staff of people who simply write letters and sign.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't write that letter.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: After Madhya Pradesh, are you planning on going to Vṛndāvana or...?

Prabhupāda: That is not your settlement.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: If I improve my health, I shall stay there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Madhya Pradesh? It is good for health?

Prabhupāda: I have heard, they say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good water, they say.

Prabhupāda: But I have got little experience, that side is nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Madhya Pradesh side is good.

Prabhupāda: No, not Madhya Pradesh, but especially between Jhansi and Gwalior, the Shivapuri, that is healthy place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You used to live in Jhansi before, huh?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Jhansi climate was nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Acharya Prabhakar tells me stories of his staying with you. He stayed with you for two years, he says.

Prabhupāda: He arranged for a very palatial building, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He says you would make him listen to your writings. Sometimes you would write all night, I think he told me. I spoke to him on the phone when I was at Vele[?]. He sends you his daṇḍavats. He says he's ready to move in when the Vṛndāvana gurukula is ready. He says he'll move to Vṛndāvana and do whatever you want him to do in the gurukula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Mohatta, he also passed through Shivapuri. So he... When I told him there were some woods, some forests, he said, "Oh, then it must be Shivapuri." I said, "How did you know that?" He said, "Because of all the places... That is the only place where there's even a little bit of forests." He said, "It is not much forest, but there is something." He said, "Otherwise, Madhya Pradesh is generally very dry, but the Shivapuri district..."

Prabhupāda: Hmm, Shivapuri.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...is best in Madhya Pradesh." He knew of it.

Prabhupāda: Forest and open place combined together becomes healthy. Besides that, in particular place the water is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say best in district.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said it was the best well in the district.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we are taking part in the World Book Fair in Russia. The space is already booked.

Prabhupāda: That you have already told.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I wanted to ask you, should BBT America pay for our expenses in that Book Fair? It will cost about three thousand dollars. It's a very good preaching opportunity. They can pay?

Prabhupāda: No, half and half. You pay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Half I pay... Half we pay, half they pay? Okay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said it was all right if you went to Māyāpur with that man, those Germans.

Prabhupāda: I have given the idea. Now how to put it into shape, that I... That I do not know.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a man coming that Patita Uddhāraṇa invited?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Yes. Tomorrow this man from Bangalore is coming.

Prabhupāda: So where his place has been fixed up?

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: He can stay in one of the Life Membership rooms because he's alone. He doesn't have wife and that.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: No, he is...

Prabhupāda: Give him nice, comfortable room.

Surabhīr Abhipālayantam: Nice room. That we have arranged. And these people from Germany, they will stay two days in Bombay.

Prabhupāda: No, anyone, newcomer, give him very nice place, nice food. Food and shelter is the first consideration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [aside:] We've got to arrange good food for him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I told you that we have improved the quality of the composing. So this is a new style of composing. It is about... They have a new alphabet, cleaner. They are using better art paper. And I have shown it to our production manager. He also says the reproduction of it would be much better. I have improved the quality of art paper on which they are doing the art proofs. So I just got this one made, and I wanted to show it to you. We are experimenting with two types of composing. Now, this takes in more words, but what we will do at the time of printing, we will shoot it and it will become small, like the regular book, and this way we can get in more space. And this...

Prabhupāda: How many lines?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is about... Three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen..., seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty, twenty-one, twenty... Thirty-three. But it's also little broader. It's a little broader than the others. Thirty-three lines.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still looks like there's a lot space.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's okay because when it is shot it will be reduced even further. This is... You shouldn't go by the space. It's already bigger than a normal size page. But when it is... It will be shot by the camera and reduced.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But relatively, it looks like there's a lot of space here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You can make it even more, but then it's going to become very small. It is all done proportionately. This is another sample. This is about thirty-five lines. One, two, three, four, five, six...

Prabhupāda: This is better composition than the former.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I've improved it now. Seventeen, eighteen, twenty... This is thirty-six lines.

Prabhupāda: So this is good.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So we'll use this print, then.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Of course, because they are paragraphs, I've also counted this, you know. Otherwise, normally, there would be one line here. So this is better, eh? We're using better art paper, so now, with the reproduction, it will come out better. So this is your decision?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So I'm not moving the press, because it is very cheap for us for six rupees a page, compared to forty rupees. I just had one other question on the BBT. Sometimes these... Sometimes the temples don't pay the BBT, and their bills climb up to sixty thousand, seventy thousand rupees, and...

Prabhupāda: Don't pay?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. My... I have told the temples that "BBT will give you as many books as you want, but once you sell, the cost must go to BBT and the profit goes to the temple." But sometimes the temples don't pay. So...

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they take it very easy, like they're doing in America also. So I wanted to stop sending them books or at least threaten them that I won't send them books.

Prabhupāda: No, if you have... Why threatening? You settle up with temples' authorities.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: How is that, you do not...?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like what Rāmeśvara does, Rāmeśvara Mahārāja, if temples don't pay, he says, "In all future orders you have to give cash in advance with every order."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good line.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can follow the same system here?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another way he does... I can tell you some other things he does, too.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. So we'll do the same things here, then.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]

Prabhupāda: They created untouchables, repressed, sidual[?], so many partition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who created them?

Prabhupāda: Britishers. Then, when Gandhi tried to accommodate them, then rupture between Hindu-Muslim, Muslim League, riot. To keep their kingdom they were doing... So many innocent persons were massacred. Anyāyenārtha-sañcayān [Bg. 16.12]. The Britishers committed so many sinful activities. They will suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they're suffering for it.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night I... [break] [end]