Morning Walk , Bombay , 1976-12-29
Prabhupāda: ...free. Free education, why they'll not accept?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Free education they will.
Prabhupāda: It is free.
Guest (1) [Indian man]: It is free education.
Prabhupāda: It is free. We are asking people, "Come here, live here, take this education."
Guest (1): Nobody pays anything.
Prabhupāda: It is free. Everything is free. We are not going to charge anything. Retired man, come here, take this spiritual education. This is our whole system. [greets guest] Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (2) [Indian man]: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Why they'll not do? Just think over this. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have given this main point to our lawyers, and this is what we are working on.
Prabhupāda: It is completely educational. Spiritual education. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. It is not religious sentiment. Some Arya-samajis told me in Durban, South Africa, that "Why you are bringing this Hindu idea?" And this is not your Hindu idea. Kṛṣṇa said, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. Does it mean that only Hindus, from boyhood they become youth, and the Musselman does not? What is this nonsense? People are so misguided they cannot understand this simple word, this spiritual education. They say Hindu idea, that only the Hindu boys grow to become young men. The Muslim, the Christian, they do not grow up. Just see how much in darkness they are and how much they require this education. How the world is in need of this spiritual education. And they cannot understand it. Just see how they are dull and rascal-headed. Hindus grow only. Huh? Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... [Bg. 2.13]. Kṛṣṇa said from boyhood to yauvanam. It is Hindu idea. The Arya-samaji friend told me, "Why you bring this Hindu idea?" How much dull they are, just imagine.
Dr. Patel: I don't think it is dullness. It is fanaticism maybe.
Prabhupāda: And who becomes fanatic? All rascals, dull. They become fanatic. Otherwise, why one should be fanatic? If one has got brain, one has got logic, how he should be fanatic? Fanatics means dull-headed rascal, that's all. The Muslims they become fanatic, we say, generally they are, because they're dull-headed. Always unclean and eating meat and low behavior. What is that? Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca janā na vidur āsurāḥ, na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāraḥ [Bg. 16.7]. This is dull head. There is no cleanliness, no behavior. [Hindi] That is especially mentioned, that nayaṁ deha. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye [SB 5.5.1]. This kind of life is meant for the hogs, not for the human beings. [Hindi] Bās. Sex. No discrimination. [Hindi] Sex is a bodily..., what is the...
Guest (1): Necessity of life.
Dr. Patel: Biological necessity.
Prabhupāda: Necessity. "What is the difference? Why not with sister, why not with daughter or even why not with mother? What is the wrong there?" They say like that?
Dr. Patel: They consider themselves to be animals.
Prabhupāda: They are animals. Why consider? They are animals. Therefore śāstra says viḍ-bhujām. Not ordinary animals. A suar, animal. Suar. [Hindi] Animal society. Dvipāda-paśu. [Hindi] We'll say that "Why you are wasting your time in this so-called material advancement?" How they'll understand? So dull head. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: [laughs] You're right. The modern civilization is the materialists, veda is material. Veda is body consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That means suar civilization. It is suar civilization.
Dr. Patel: ...is only the civilization of Vedas. We have lost the Vedic mooring, unfortunately.
Prabhupāda: Why India should lost? India is the hope of the whole world, and their men have now become suar, suar kavaca. That is my regret. Others may be, but why Indians? Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
janma sārthaka kari' kara...
[Cc. Ādi 9.41]
Bhārata-bhūmi, you don't become suar-chala[?]. You make your life...
Dr. Patel: We have become, sir, in a way, because we have...
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you should check now.
Dr. Patel: Our system has been...
Prabhupāda: You should check now. You should revive now.
Dr. Patel: The Vedic civilization is the base of our making a man. I mean, truly a good man.
Guest (2): No, we should check it. That is the point.
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] [chants japa] [break] Hindu idea. Hindu idea. [break] You know that? Fetus [pronounces "fettus"] or fetus? What is that? Killing, killing and eating.
Dr. Patel: Somebody told. You or somebody. No?
Prabhupāda: No, not somebody. Everybody says. Not some. Everyone knows. It is common practice. Delicacy.
Dr. Patel: The idea is so abominable to our culture.
Prabhupāda: Abominable... [Hindi] Suar's activity's all abominable.
Dr. Patel: But this idea of eating a fetus is extremely abominable. You can't think of it. I mean a baby having developed, we can't imagine.
Prabhupāda: But you must know it. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.
Prabhupāda: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in..., sometime in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Gonal[?].
Dr. Patel: Gomath, gomath.[?]
Prabhupāda: No, no. Gonal[?]. After... Because formerly the girls were married early. So after getting puberty there is one ceremony, it is called diti-abhi-bha.[?] Another ceremony. And then she goes to her husband's house. So she was going there with presentation of father, mother. So she was covered. So another young girl, up-to-date, she was doing like this. They were girls. One can touch . So once, twice. When it made thrice, that village girl slapped her, "Hut!" I said, "Yes, you have done right." She was thinking..., the city girl was thinking, "What is this nonsense?" She wanted to criticize. [laughs]
Guest (1): She got a slap.
Prabhupāda: And she gave a good slap. I've seen it. She's up-to-date, and she became surprised. Lifting the avaguṇṭhana. So the whole train, they became laughed. And woman, the shyness is the only protection for them.
Guest (1): Shyness.
Dr. Patel: Modesty.
Prabhupāda: Modesty. There is no modesty left. Anyway, and that is her beauty. But we are breaking that. There is no beauty, no attraction. And as soon as you break this modesty, shyness, then the woman will create devastation.
Dr. Patel: Yes. They have been. They have finished now.
Hari-śauri: There's no carpet to sit down in front of... [indistinct]. It's disappeared. Oh, here it is.
Dr. Patel: No, if you sit down, these swellings will become less on the feet. Walking, it is [indistinct]?
Prabhupāda: No, a little movement.
Dr. Patel: We got your [indistinct] examined. You haven't got much diabetes now. But unfortunately kidneys are...
Prabhupāda: I'm not eating much.
Dr. Patel: No, after kidneys are little affected. It was lack of albumen, and perhaps you'll be all right by this shopauri.[?] You know this shopauri? Shopauri's growing in our own garden here. That [indistinct] will be coming on Thursday at six o'clock. [Hindi] He is very well known...
Prabhupāda: Our Kaveri[?] you see. If it is medicine, we can have.
Dr. Patel: He will guide you better than me. At six o'clock we have to send somebody to catch him on his consulting. [indistinct] He stays somewhere... His house number is 36. [indistinct]
Guest (2): If they let me know, I can bring him.
Dr. Patel: He has already given time, six o'clock. If you can go and bring him at six o'clock...
Guest (2): No, then they will have to come from all the way here.
Dr. Patel: No, no. He will be coming here. [break]
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] This is fact. The whole world has become suar. [Hindi] Including India. It is not that India is now human being. No. India has also become suar. So it is a great service. This is the only service to the human society. And to keep them suar and organizing United Nation---what the suar will unite?
Dr. Patel: United Nation of suars. [laughter]
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how it will be successful?
Dr. Patel: That is all they have. This is disunited nation, not united nation.
Prabhupāda: I said in some public meeting in Melbourne, "The United Nation is the assembly of some dogs. They are barking." And newspapermen added, "The Swami has come to hound you." [laughter] Eh? What is that?
Hari-śauri: "His Divine Grace is here to hound us."
Prabhupāda: Hound. Yes. So I attacked the whole United Nation, and so they attacked me also.
Dr. Patel: No, we have seen the League of Nations was even badder than the United Nations. They are all really fighting among themselves very badly.
Prabhupāda: Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Unless they are spiritually elevated, they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. Simply by stamping.
Dr. Patel: And there is another class of...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi became mahātmā, but his mission was, "Get out. Englishmen, get out." Where is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu? He declared himself mahātmā, but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.
Dr. Patel: Sir, he, I mean, I'm sorry to interrupt you. He never hated Englishmen. It's their method he wanted to drive out.
Prabhupāda: "I do not hate you, but I beat you with shoes." [laughter]
Dr. Patel: No, you don't beat me with shoes. He never beat them with shoes. He said, "Well, we don't like you." If I say, "Do this," and it is not good, I mean, I'm not wrong in that way, I suppose. I'm open to correction.
Prabhupāda: No, no. English civilization is not good. What was the wrong? I say repeatedly, again and again, he ruined the Manchester cloth business; he developed Ahmedabad cloth. The result is we poor men, we were paying one rupee six annas per pair[?], now we are paying thirty rupees. Money is going... Instead of going to the pocket of the Englishmen it is going to the pocket of Mahadevia. [laughter]
Dr. Patel: English people, they, I mean, ruined their whole industry of... Bengal textile industry was ruined by Britishers. They cut away the thumbs. That is... I'm sorry, sir...
Prabhupāda: Therefore why mahātmā? The same business you are doing, why you say mahātmā? If you are doing the same business...
Dr. Patel: He never called himself mahātmā. People called him mahātmā.
Prabhupāda: He liked to enjoy it. He liked to enjoy it. That's all. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā has no business to this... [break] ...fact, the present position of India, it is not very good. But we can do that. We have got the means. If we make propaganda village to village... Still, the villagers, they are unpolluted; they can be recovered. Still, when we hold meeting of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, thousands of men come. And that our Hyderabad land is very suitable for this purpose.
Devotee: The thing is, Prabhupāda, in India they know that materialism is wrong because they've been educated.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are being educated that materialism is good, and this so-called spiritual... They do not recognize the spiritual movement. Our government do not recognize any spiritual movement.
Dr. Patel: They interpret secularism as no religion. Rather equal truth to all religions is the real meaning of secularism. The government tries to pander the minority... [break]
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] ...world will be benefited. Still people observe India.
Guest (1): If it is told by [indistinct] who accept it.
Prabhupāda: No, why these boys are attracted? They have not come here to see your industry for materialism. They have come here for spiritual. They have not come to see your cycle and sewing machine. Actually, they have come, Vṛndāvana, Māyāpur. And they are not poverty stricken. We go to Europe being poverty stricken. That Lady Willingdon, he [she] challenged one of my Godbrothers, Bhakti Tīrtha Mahārāja, that "You Indian people..." She was very proud, Lady Willingdon.
Willingdon was [indistinct]. She said that "You Indian people..." Of course, it was friendly talk. "You come to our country, we give you some stamp, degree, and you earn your livelihood in India. What you have come here to teach?" This was the challenge. Actually, that was happening. We were sending our men to England to become bar-at-law, to become M.I., C.P., to become this and that, and they became here big men. So "Why you people come here to teach us?" This was the challenge. In those days a little favor of Englishman was considered a great boon. In Bengal there is a word, sāheb śubha. Sāheb means European, especially Englishman, and śubha means "auspicious." So if anyone can make friendship with a European, then his life is successful. And that was happening. The Englishmen were opening business houses. If somebody became connected, he gets good business. He becomes a rich man. There is a family in Calcutta, Saubhaga[?] Raj family. So the head of that family, some Navinchandra Dev, he was a minor clerk of Lord Clive's. So when Lord Clive was in Delhi, he was young man, he was sitting on that peacock throne and slept. Young man. So Lord Clive saw, "Oh, what is this young man?" So the Englishman, then he came to Calcutta. So "You are fortunate. All right, I'll make you a king." Britishers, they were giving title, "king." So he was given the title Raj. So the whole family is Saubhaga[?] Raj family still. This was the Raj. He was a clerk.
Why people will not say sāheb śubha? He became favorite to Lord Clive, and his whole family became Raj family. Still that family is there, those who are known to Calcutta. One of the oldest aristocrats. So all these aristocratic families, they were made by these Britishers---except the Tagore family. They were from the Muhammadan time. The people became attached to the Europeans. Sāheb śubha. If you meet one Englishman, then your fortune is... I think Bombay was there also.
Guest (1): There are many families among those, even today.
Prabhupāda: There are many Parsi families. But they wanted some friends. They were minority. Unless with the cooperation of the Indians, how they could stand? Therefore they introduced the zamindari system in Bengal, Bihar, Orissa. Some aristocratic families should cooperate with them. They knew how to rule over. Now by over-cooperating they have become hoax. That verse I very much like.
kaṣṭān kāmān arhate
tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ
The human life is meant for purifying. They have lost this goal of life. Temporarily we are thinking if we make some comfortable arrangement for body, and that is sufficient. That is sufficient. Lost Vedic culture, ideal of life, goal of life. [Hindi] At least in India it should. In other places they are... Therefore this movement's against them. Because we are preaching this philosophy just opposite to their views, they are taking it "brainwashed." Is that all right in your country?
Devotee: They accuse them of brainwashing. But actually...
Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog, that is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead---simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani [Bg. 9.3]. Who can understand this? [Hindi] to return [Hindi] to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. [Hindi] If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness, then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death.
Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that, in the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar... [Hindi] There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. So Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No, no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my this suarni?" [laughter]
Dr. Patel: I like this tale.
Prabhupāda: Then Brahmā began to kill his suarni and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a narration like that. Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this tamo-guṇa, he became happy in the high life of suar.
Dr. Patel: Māyā duratyayā. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14].
Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]
Śrutaśravā: The governor there, he was making a statement that most institutions in California like hospitals and places like this, they are simply torture chambers. So he made one request that people like priests and monks and Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, if they could go to these places and try to help people.
Prabhupāda: We are prepared. If they give us in charge, we are prepared.
Śrutaśravā: So on Christmas day Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was planning that many devotees could go there and distribute prasāda and some literatures.
Prabhupāda: We can cure them from material and spiritual diseases. They are now trying to cure them from material ailments. We can cure them from spiritual ailments. Actually, the ailment is spiritual. Material is symptom. [end]