Garden Conversation , Vṛndāvana , 1976-09-06

Prabhupāda: Why should we bother about this and that?

Svayambhūr: Prabhupāda, you wrote in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that the Caitanya mahā-mantra, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, there is no offense to that. And so therefore in the Kali-yuga it is actually more beneficial...

Prabhupāda: Offense is that what is spoken by the ācāryas, if you do not follow, that is offense. Guror avajñā. That is offense. To chant gaura-nitāi is no offense. But if our previous gurus have chanted śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita---why should we go beyond that? That is guror avajñā. Even there is no aparādha, because guru..., Kavirāja Gosvāmī, has sung like that, and my guru has sung, we should follow that. We should not make any deviation. That is guror avajñā śruti-śāstra-nindanam. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. So it comes to be one of the items of the daśa-vidha-aparādha. Guror avajñā.

Svayambhūr: Should we consider that it's more beneficial for people to hear bhaja śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya...

Prabhupāda: Why? There is already... Why should you go here and there? There is already śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda. Why you are so anxious to go out of it?

Svayambhūr: No, I'm saying is it more beneficial for people to hear that mantra than the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? Is it more beneficial for people to hear the pañca-tattva mantra than the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are going to Hare Kṛṣṇa through Nitāi-Gaura. Nitāiyer karuṇā habe braje rādhā-kṛṣṇa pābe. The principle is = don't try to manufacture. Because you are not experienced, so what nonsense you will manufacture, that will be offensive. Better go on, the simple thing.

Svayambhūr: I know one devotee that chants pañca-tattva mantra...

Prabhupāda: Let them chant whatever. We shall chant like this, pañca-tattva... śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda. I've explained that. Five features of Lord Caitanya.

Svayambhūr: He chants that mantra on his beads.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Svayambhūr: That boy Richard, in Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: Rascal. That is his bad association. Therefore I say don't follow these so-called Rādhā-kuṇḍa bābājīs. Nara-kuṇḍa bābājī. And they smoke bīḍī. I have seen. Richard is still there?

Svayambhūr: Yes. He's in very bad health.

Prabhupāda: But he has got money.

Svayambhūr: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Spending money there?

Akṣayānanda: I haven't been there for a long time, but I just heard about.

Prabhupāda: No, he has got money. How he is spending?

Harikeśa: He has hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Harikeśa: Probably in New York.

Prabhupāda: So he does not bring that?

Harikeśa: Yes, he has money all the time.

Svayambhūr: Dhanañjaya prabhu, he went to see him, and he said he was dying because of bad health. And he said that he had written a will, and on the will he had left most of his money to ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Caraṇāravindam: I expect he loves you very much. Actually, he's very attracted to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why does he not come to us? He likes Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Caraṇāravindam: He loves Rādhā-kuṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: Determination. No, if he's in difficulty he may come. We can take care of him.

Vipramukhya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I go tomorrow to Delhi, and I'll leave to go to Istanbul.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Go with the blessings of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma [CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126]. Very good. Kṛṣṇa will save you. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and depend on Kṛṣṇa. Then everything's all right. Don't be afraid that you are going to foreign country. There is no foreign country.

Caraṇāravindam: Kṛṣṇa's everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Īśāvāsyam idam---everything Kṛṣṇa's. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. Surrender means that. "Kṛṣṇa, I have surrendered to You. Now if You like, You can protect me. If You like, You can kill me. Whatever You like, You do." That's all. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā nitya-dāsa prati tuwā adhikārā. "I am Your eternal servant. You have got full right. Either You kill me or protect me, that is Your business. But I surrender." Bās. This is surrender. Mārobi rākhobi jo icchā tohārā. This is surrender. "If You put me into inconvenience, then I'm not going to surrender," that is conditional. [laughs] Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, "Whatever You like, You can do." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām marma-hatāṁ karotu vā adarśanān, yathā tathā vā vidadhātu [Cc. Antya 20.47]. "Whatever You like, You do." Yathā tathā vā. Yathā tathā, "Whatever You like. It is up to You. I don't object." Yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo.

Svayambhūr: If one is not a very strong devotee, should one have that same attitude of going...

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. Dṛḍha-vrata. That is perfection. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 7.28].

Hari-śauri: No, he's saying if you're not very fixed up, then should you still go out and preach? If you're not very fixed up...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is fixed. Nobody is perfect. But by rendering service he becomes perfect. The more you render service you become perfect. Not that in one day you become perfect.

Hari-śauri: Because I remember you also said that preaching is not for neophytes. You also said...

Prabhupāda: Neophyte means that kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. One worships the Deity very nicely, but he does not like to do good to others, neither he knows who is Vaiṣṇava, he's neophyte. He is, in the arcanā, he's fixed up, he's doing very nicely. Arcāyām eva haraye. Yaḥ śraddhā..., pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate na tad-bhakteṣu [SB 11.2.47]. One does not understand who is bhakta, na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, and how to do good to others. But he's doing the Deity worship very nicely. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. He's prākṛta. But he can advance when his..., by the grace of Kṛṣṇa he understands, "Here is a Vaiṣṇava. Here is an innocent man. He should be given some enlightenment." That is preacher---when he'll feel for others. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa: "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to You." Tato vimukha-cetasa. And that is Vaiṣṇava, advanced devotee. "For me I have no anxiety." Naivodvije para duratyaya-vai... "There may be so many dangers. I don't care for them." Naiva udvije. "I am not disturbed by all these things." Udvije. Para duratyaya. "Even it is very insurmountable, dangerous position, I don't care." How? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ [SB 7.9.43] = "Because when I think of You, chant of Your glories, I don't care for that." Then, "You appear to be morose?" "Yes." "Why?" Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa: "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to You. How to do... They are engaged in false activities, māyā-sukhāya, for temporary happiness of the senses. So I am thinking like that. Therefore I am morose. For me I have no anxiety." And actually, what Prahlāda Mahārāja... He was thrown to the fire, he was thrown from the hill and underneath the... He didn't care. "Whatever you'll do, I'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So how he'll be unhappy for himself? He has already passed all these examinations. His father... Not other; his own father. He's helpless. He's under father's care, and the father is giving so much trouble. "All right, if he likes, go on." Everyone expects affection from the father. He's five-years-old boy. Where he shall go? "No, no, no, no. I'll take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, and you can go on with your business. I don't care for your punishment."

Svayambhūr: Such stage of bhakti is very rare, Prabhupāda. To be on such a high platform is very rare. To be fearless.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakti itself is rare. Bhakti is not cheap. Don't think it is cheap commodity. There is a verse..., I now forget. Kṛṣṇa can give you liberation, but He hesitates to give bhakti.

Harikeśa: Muktiṁ dadāti karhicit sma na bhakti-yogam [SB 5.6.18].

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mukti, He is prepared, "All right, take mukti." But when there is bhakti, He has to consider twice. Bhakti means He becomes in the grip of bhakta. Vedeṣu durlabham adurlabham ātma-bhaktau [Bs. 5.33].

Svayambhūr: Are we doing bhakti, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is viddhi-bhakti. And this is rāga-bhakti, spontaneous. Through viddhi-bhakti you have to come to the stage of rāga-bhakti. Without viddhi-bhakti, you'll not... Because you are conditioned. Those who are liberated, they immediately get rāga-bhakti. Not by imitation. That is another thing. Nitya-siddha. [japa] So I have got all encouragement. Go and preach. Don't be afraid. Simply present yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Whatever you have learned from Kṛṣṇa, from your guru, just vomit it, that's all. There is no need of becoming very expert. Simply whatever you learned, that's all.

Harikeśa: Lots of kīrtana and prasādam?

Prabhupāda: That's it. That is our main... Anyone will like. Chant mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and give them prasādam, and everyone will take.

Harikeśa: I think purīs and halavā, there isn't a person in the world who doesn't like it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything you'll nicely prepare, tastefully, people will like. [japa] You have learned cooking? I'm asking... Huh? What you have learned? What preparation you can make?

Caraṇāravindam: Many different kinds of preparations.

Prabhupāda: Tell me something.

Harikeśa: Tell Prabhupāda some.

Caraṇāravindam: Ah... Most of the kitchen preparations one gets in India. Iddlis [indistinct list of preparations] ...things like that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he knows so many things. You have learned something? You?

Vipramukhya: Very little. I can cook halavā and purīs. Simple things. I can cook sweet rice. Sweet rice I can cook.

Prabhupāda: Sweet rice. That is very sweet for you. [laughs] The Europeans and Americans, they like sweet rice. Is it not?

Harikeśa: Oh, yes.

Svayambhūr: I think they like halavā the best, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? If halavā is made nicely, actually it is best. So prepare all these things. Offer to Kṛṣṇa and devotees, and at last you take. Don't take at first. Give all, as much as you like, then you take. Susukhaṁ kartum avyayam [Bg. 9.2]. It is such a nice movement. It is simply pleasing. To execute, it is simply pleasing. And avyayam. Whatever you do is permanent. Whatever little service you have given, it will never be lost. Avyayam. Therefore Nārada Muni says, bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi [SB 1.5.17]. Even if he's not fully matured and falls down, kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim. Where is loss? Whatever he has done, that is permanent. Because that will grow. If the seed is permanently sown, then it will naturally grow. It may take some time, but it will grow. So he's not loser. If he's little careful, then it will grow. Mālī hañā sei bīja kare āropaṇa, śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye... [Cc. Madhya 19.152]. Then the creeper goes, grows, and at last takes shelter of Kṛṣṇa. These are described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Vipramukhya: When we prepare a feast, we should give and give and give, and when no one wants any more, then...

Prabhupāda: Up until he comes to this point. [indicating fullness] [laughter] Not only this point, but up to this point. Eat as much as you like. We are not miser. You eat. As much you want I shall supply. But don't waste. Eat. Don't waste.

Hari-śauri: This morning you were saying that fasting is very good. [laughter]

Harikeśa: I was just thinking about that.

Prabhupāda: No. Not prasādam. I never said. No, those who want to eat... Fasting... One who has not developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him fasting. And one who takes pleasure, "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure, or Kṛṣṇa's food. I'll take." This is the idea. So we are not devotees, therefore we should first fast. And those who are devotees, they'll take as much as they like. I was telling fasting because I am not a devotee. [laughs] For me, fasting is good. If I eat more---atyāhāraḥ. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca, ṣaḍbhir bhaktir praṇaśyati [NoI 2].

Hari-śauri: If you can appreciate kṛṣṇa-prasādam without filling up to the neck...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is for the devotee. A devotee can eat, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu was eating. Govinda, His servant, complained, "Sir, so many things are lying here, and everyone asks, 'Whether Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taken my preparation?' 'Oh, yes, He has taken.' So I have to speak so many lies. You don't take. What can I do?" He said, "All right, bring it. Bring it." So He began to eat for one hundred men's foodstuff stocked. He finished. Then He asked, "Any more?" So now only the bags are there. Everything finished. [laughs] So He ate everything, one after another, one after another, one after another. "All right. Bring, bring, bring." So He can eat. We cannot. [break] This water is going there? [referring to fountain] It is going only one side and not other side? [Caraṇāravindam explains about water flow---indistinct] [japa]

Svayambhūr: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it a sign of advancement in devotional service...

Prabhupāda: Branch?

Svayambhūr: Advancement. If somebody wants to preach, is that the sign of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svayambhūr: That's the first sign.

Prabhupāda: When one is very anxious to preach, that is advancement.

Svayambhūr: And if one is not very anxious to preach, he is not very advanced.

Prabhupāda: Then he should stick to Deity worship very nicely, following the rules and regulations, cleansing. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau. This nitya, you take very seriously.

Svayambhūr: And then when he becomes advanced, then he will...

Prabhupāda: Automatically he will be anxious to preach. Automatically.

Svayambhūr: Ultimately.

Prabhupāda: Not ultimately. Automatically.

Svayambhūr: Oh, automatically.

Prabhupāda: Just like in a small time, our that Kṛṣṇa dāsa? [child, son of French pūjārī] He knows English, he knows French, he knows... What does it mean? He has heard it; now he'll want to speak. That is the natural sequence. If anyone has listened from the authority about Kṛṣṇa, he wants to speak again. That is preaching. Not that "I have listened about Kṛṣṇa, that's all right." No. When he wants to speak to others, that is advancement. That is wanted. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. That is the test that he has advanced. Nāma, rūpa, guṇa, līlā, parikara, vasiṣṭha.

Svayambhūr: Does he have to speak immediately, or he can speak after some time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not immediately. Immediately how you can speak? Unless he knows, what he'll speak? It is better not to speak than speaking all nonsense. He must learn first of all what is the philosophy, what is the science. Then he can speak. [break]

Vipramukhya: These Turks are yavanas? Demons and yavanas?

Prabhupāda: Materially there are so many divisions, but spiritual they are all servant of Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is yavana, nobody is brāhmaṇa. Everyone is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. We are going there not to make the yavanas a brāhmaṇa. That is not our mission. Our business is... We know that he is servant of Kṛṣṇa. Forgetting Kṛṣṇa, he's thinking himself as Turkish, as Muhammadan, as Jewish, as Christian. This is his disease. So let me cure his disease. Why he should be called yavana? That is artificial. He's kṛṣṇa-dāsa. Jivera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. Just like when a physician treats a patient, does he think that "Here is a Christian," "Here is a Muhammadan," "Here is a Hindu"? He takes as patient, never mind what he is, and he gives treatment. He never thinks that "Here is a Christian patient," "Here is a Muhammadan patient." He is patient. "Give me this. Bring him medicine." That is physician's business. Why should we consider, "Here is a Christian patient. He should be treated differently than the Muhammadan patient"? Does he think like that? Does he think? Does any physician honestly think that "Here is a Christian patient. Special care should be taken for him"? No. If he is physician, he should give the equal treatment to everyone.

Svayambhūr: If he doesn't have any money he may... [end]