Morning Walk [partially recorded] , Delhi , 1976-09-02
Atīndra: ...Kṛṣṇa. So how are we to understand the name of the spiritual master? In kīrtana when we chant the name of the spiritual master, is that as spiritually potent?
Lokanātha: You have to understand the position of Vaiṣṇava. Vaiṣṇava's position is far, far greater than the demigods'. Demigods, they shower flowers on the Vaiṣṇavas. So they are very exalted personalities, especially the spiritual master. There's no comparison of the spiritual master with any entity in the universe or brahmāṇḍa. As Prabhupāda's purport has said many places = "The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the Supersoul, Paramātmā, within your heart." So Paramātmā is Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, and He becomes manifest before you in form of a guru, or spiritual master. So you cannot compare a spiritual master, or guru, with any other...
Prabhupāda: No, his question is why the demigods... Just like Lord Brahmā, he is the original spiritual master. So why the demigods should not be equal to the spiritual master? That is his question. Is it not?
Lokanātha: They are not equal to the spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Why? That is his question.
Lokanātha: As you are explaining in your scriptures that spiritual master is Paramātmā externally manifested, but not in case of other demigods.
Prabhupāda: Why the spiritual master is given so exalted position than the demigods? That should be the answer. Demigods, they are also Vaiṣṇava, mostly.
Lokanātha: They are not pure devotees. You said they...
Prabhupāda: They are also devotees.
Lokanātha: But their devotion is mixed devotion.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like Lord Brahmā. We belong to the Brahmā-sampradāya. Brahmā is the original spiritual master after Kṛṣṇa. Brahmā, then Nārada, then Vyāsadeva---like that. So all of them are gurus, ācāryas. So why spiritual master is honored as good as the Supreme Lord? Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Why? That should be his question = Why spiritual master is given the supreme post than all others? Sākṣād-dharitvena---as good as God. Why? Is it not? It is clear, his question. First of all, is this his question?
Atīndra: Yes, this is the question.
Prabhupāda: So what is the answer?
Lokanātha: The spiritual master is very much concerned about our personal welfare. They are the present ācāryas in the paramparā...
Prabhupāda: He gives direct knowledge of Kṛṣṇa; therefore he's as good as Kṛṣṇa. [japa]
Hari-śauri: [to devotee fanning] Only when there's some flies.
Hari-śauri: I was just telling him to fan just when there's flies just to scatter.
Prabhupāda: [to Kṛṣṇa dāsa:] You are tired now? No?
Indian man: [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: [to Kṛṣṇa dāsa:] You can climb on the tree? No. Let me see.
Kṛṣṇa dāsa [child]: Prabhupāda said we have to climb up the tree. Prabhupāda said that. [children laughing]
Prabhupāda: [japa] It is better than that path.
Hari-śauri: This one?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not so crowded. That path is very crowded. [break]
Lokanātha: ...five thousand years back, until now, there's only thirty ācāryas...
Prabhupāda: Chain is broken when there are false spiritual masters. Otherwise it is not broken. Chain is broken if a so-called spiritual master speaks something manufactured. Then the chain is broken. Otherwise, chain is not broken.
Prabhupāda: No, you could not. [break] Uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "The spiritual master is as good as God because he's very dear to Kṛṣṇa." He's preaching Kṛṣṇa's mission, and Kṛṣṇa is very, very pleased with him. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ [Bg. 18.69]. That is spiritual master's qualification. He's trying his best to deliver the soul from these clutches of māyā. That is a great service. Therefore he is very dear. One who is chanting or executing devotional service for his personal benefit and one who is trying to deliver others for others' benefit, there is difference.
Atīndra: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Isn't it the case that for some people, then, when the disciplic succession is lost, because if you're following a false guru... For example, your teachings now will always be on the planet. There will be other gurus who present some false teaching. So does that mean that for some people the disciplic succession is there and some people it's not there? If they're following a false guru does that mean they've lost the disciplic succession?
Prabhupāda: [to Kapila:] Oh, there is a good boy. Your nāma?
Kapila [child]: Kapila.
Prabhupāda: Kapila? Ah! [end]