Room Conversation , Hyderabad , 1976-08-21

Jayapatākā: I was with him when he posted the letter.

Prabhupāda: But where is that?

Jayapatākā: I'll ask him when I see him.

Prabhupāda: You have got any copy? No.

Jayapatākā: I didn't keep a copy.

Prabhupāda: When they submit? Quarterly?

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Part of the money is contribution for construction of my house. Ten thousand. Ten thousand dollars?

Jayapatākā: Ten thousand dollars, I think. Jayatīrtha mentioned.

Prabhupāda: I am writing one letter to the government that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why... I have sent this to the governor.

Jayapatākā: To the governor?

Prabhupāda: Governor, Mr. Chandra Reddy. "Why? Wherefrom they are getting money? Where? why?" That is my money by hard labor, that's all. Is it wrong if a man works hard and gets money in foreign country and bring in India?

Gargamuni: I think they cannot believe that a sādhu could have so much money from selling books.

Prabhupāda: That may be beyond their dream, but I am not so-called sādhu. I am trying to execute the orders of my Guru Mahārāja, predecessor. I am not a so-called sādhu, taking a saffron robe, begging for fulfilling the belly.

Gargamuni: They have to accept you as an international leader.

Prabhupāda: I must be international leader. Yes, they are surprised how... This is unique in the history, that a single person's books are sold in so many large quantities. I don't think any author has sold so many books. Huh?

Gargamuni: In some of the American magazines they publish a best-seller list of books, and the number of books we sell goes beyond the best-seller list.

Prabhupāda: And especially philosophical and religious books. These people do not touch. [laughs] Untouchable. Has even Vivekananda has presented so many books? A small book, Thus spake...

Gargamuni: "Thus spake." [laughs]

Prabhupāda: And what he will write? What does he know? Simply bluffers. Chaliats. Our Bon Mahārāja is also one of the chaliats. What is the English for chaliat?

Jayapatākā: Bluffers?

Prabhupāda: Chaliat means he has no assets but he shows that he is very big. That is called chaliat.

Jayapatākā: Bluffer.

Prabhupāda: Bluffer? Our Tīrtha Mahārāja's Caitanya Research Institute. Here is an Indian Institute for... What is that? Bon Mahārāja's? Institute for Indian Culture and Philosophy. But where is your book? You have seen that Tīrtha Mahārāja's one book? The Vedānta as Caitanya Has Seen, like that. And he has given a picture of himself with effulgence on his head. You have seen that?

Gargamuni: No, I have not seen that one. In all the mandiras where his picture is there, they have all the ācāryas' pictures, but only his picture has the effulgence.

Prabhupāda: Such a rascal. He has given Prabhupāda's picture, no effulgence; his picture, effulgence. He's such a rascal. Publicly he's showing.

Jayapatākā: But unfortunately that had to be painted in. He could not just show...

Gargamuni: There's no natural...

Prabhupāda: Could not illuminate. Remain in darkness. Effulgence in darkness. And such a shameless man, he is giving effulgence in the picture. [break]

Gargamuni: ...gradually we can see that this Society is replacing the Ramakrishna Mission there.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gargamuni: We can see practically that this Society, your Society, is replacing this Ramakrishna Mission more and more.

Prabhupāda: Why Ramakrishna Mission? We are far above the Ramakrishna Mission.

Gargamuni: Yes. As far as the people go. They are all saying "Hare Kṛṣṇa" and... They don't even mention... Sometimes they ask us, "Do you know who Ramakrishna is?" And we say, "No, we have never heard of him." They go, "You have not heard of Ramakrishna?" We say, "No. We only know Prabhupāda and Lord Caitanya. Everybody knows that, and nobody knows who is Ramakrishna."

Jayapatākā: They do not know what to say.

Gargamuni: Then they don't know what to say. They say, "You mean you don't know that Chicago Address?" We say, "No. What? Oh, when Prabhupāda went for Ratha-yātrā? Yes, that we know."

Prabhupāda: That Chicago Address was the worst. He is defying, "Why you give credit to God?" This is the... We have seen that Chicago Address. Now they are eliminating. Most blasphemous. One Christian priest, he was surprised = "What kind of nonsense these Indians are..." He asked him, "How you are speaking in this way, 'Why you are giving credit to God?' " He said like that. "You are working, why you are giving credit to God?" This is Vivekananda's realization. And he created God. A illiterate priest, he become God. Because he said, "I am God." That is the proof.

Jayapatākā: Because he said...?

Prabhupāda: "I am God. I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." So he took it. This is evidence. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the Supreme." So he said, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." This is the evidence. What Kṛṣṇa can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture.

Jayapatākā: At one town, Beturhari, that..., it is called Nakashiparathana. That's about thirty miles north of Māyāpur. One day in advance they advertised that we were coming and we were having a public showing of the cinema and Nitāi-Gaura ārati. And they had one maidan called Library Maidan. There was one, like, stage there.

Prabhupāda: It is in West Bengal?

Jayapatākā: West Bengal. That's in Nadia District. Just before Phulasi, south of Phulasi. And when we came there and I saw the police in the afternoon, we told them we were going to have a function. So they said that they would send a few policemen. They said that "We will send some policemen for keeping the order." But that night so many people came... The space could only hold four thousand, but another two, three thousand people came, and they were turned away because of insufficient space. So they were standing on the wall and on the rooftops all around, and all you could see were people's heads, just like an ocean. The policemen, after it was over... When I chanted, I chanted, "Everyone please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And I chanted the full mantra three times. They chanted so loud that even two, three blocks away people thought that the heavens were shouting. It was like a thunder...

Prabhupāda: Thunderbolt.

Jayapatākā: Thunderbolt. And the policemen said that never---even the chief minister came here once---not even half so many people came, and that was announced for one week. This was announced for one day, and more people came than ever before. He said, "This really shows me that the people are hungry for spiritual answer. They have no one to lead them."

Gargamuni: And these leaders are simply envious, that's all. The only reason why they're not helping us is because they're envious. Because so many people are interested and no one is interested in them.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, our Gītār Gān is selling.

Jayapatākā: Yes. When we stopped at Burdwan, in one place, one boy sold 198 Bhagavad-gītās, Gītār Gān, without moving. So many Gītās... People were just crowding around taking Gītās so much that the local... There were some bookstores. They also came, and they said that "We cannot get wholesale? We have never seen such a book sell so well."

Gargamuni: Even people come to the temple in Calcutta, they want ten, fifteen copies. Village people. Poor people. They come and say, "Gītār Gān, where is that? I have heard." And they take ten or fifteen copies, they wrap it in their cloth and bring it to the village. It is becoming very popular. Wherever you go, "Where is this Gītār Gān?"

Jayapatākā: I went to Writers' Building, I had four or five copies with me. I didn't go for selling, I went to see ministers. But all the peons, they were buying the Gītār Gāns from me. I sold out. People were coming up with rupees saying, "Gītār Gān." I didn't have any more.

Prabhupāda: Out of their own accord they...

Gargamuni: No, they've heard of it. It's becoming famous.

Jayapatākā: That's our inspiration, that if we can make Gītār Gān and Your Divine Grace famous all over Bengal, then we will feel that our mission...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I could not write any... I wrote some Bengali book, that is now... It can be collected from Devānanda Gauḍīya Maṭha. I continually wrote one book, Bhagavāner Kathā.

Jayapatākā: People are begging us for books in Bengali written by Your Divine Grace. We tell them that... [aside:] There's no time.

Prabhupāda: That Subhaga translated. But his translations are not so...

Gargamuni: No. There's always trouble with translation in local languages, Hindi or Gujarati.

Prabhupāda: They do not know the philosophy.

Gargamuni: No. And they do the wrong words.

Jayapatākā: Now they have a... I put a two-man team. A two- or three-man team. Subhaga, there's one boy Kiśora, and, what's his name, Tatpur. Between the three of them they check and recheck.

Prabhupāda: Tatpur is educated?

Jayapatākā: He's got a B.A. or something.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: Tatpur has a B.A.?

Jayapatākā: Yes. He doesn't write himself. He writes in old fashion. But he corrects for just double-checking philosophy. Editing. And this Kiśora, he was a M.A., and he previously used to write. He was an honor student at Calcutta University, and he used to freelance write in Bengali. So his style is very nice.

Prabhupāda: Why not engage him in simply...

Jayapatākā: He is translating now our...

Gargamuni: That's all he does.

Jayapatākā: That, and he greets the guests. He's also good at membership.

Prabhupāda: Gītār Gān has become popular.

Gargamuni: Yes. That name has become very popular. Everyone is asking, "Where is this Gītār Gān?"

Prabhupāda: So you can register the name so that others may not...

Jayapatākā: Yes, otherwise they'll cash in on it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can register it the name. Patron registration. Copyright registration.

Gargamuni: I think it says it in the book.

Jayapatākā: It says, but you should make sure it's registered.

Gargamuni: Gopāla, he printed it. I don't know if he had it registered. It says in the book, "All Rights Reserved."

Prabhupāda: That is your statement. But it must be legally protected.

Jayapatākā: They may check up and find out not so and then do it. That Bhagavāner Kathā was printed in what book? Do you know?

Prabhupāda: They have got a paper---Gauḍīya.

Gargamuni: These books that Gaura-Govinda, he wants to get printed. How do we know what is being said? I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the... One Oria gentleman will come, and get him to read this book. Then I can understand where he stands.

Gargamuni: Because he has... The Topmost Yoga is ready, but I didn't want to print that yet until...

Prabhupāda: Never mind. I'll... After hearing this book I'll let him know.

Jayapatākā: After they write everything, then I also read it in Bengali. I can... And if I see something that seems a little impersonal or something, I say that...

Prabhupāda: Correct it.

Jayapatākā: Yes, correct it. That much I can do.

Prabhupāda: Impersonal idea is in everyone's head. "God has no legs, no head. Simply he has got head."

Jayapatākā: I think I can also write to the... Previously in 1971–72 at the paṇḍāls you used to speak in Bengali some days. I'll write for those tapes. We can...

Gargamuni: Oh, those tapes. I asked for those tapes so long ago. If we can get those Hindi and Bengali tapes we could have them transcribed, and they can make very good essays.

Jayapatākā: All the big English Back to Godhead articles are actually your lectures simply transcribed. So we could transcribe those tapes, and we could have originally your words.

Gargamuni: Yes. There were ten days when Prabhupāda spoke in Bengali.

Jayapatākā: Twice. Once in Deshapriya Park and once at Maidan. Even today people talk about both festivals.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavāner Kathā.

Jayapatākā: Bhagavāner Kathā. Devānanda Gauḍīya Maṭha. Paper of Gauḍīya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gauḍīya, it was published continuously.

Jayapatākā: What years we should look? More or less.

Prabhupāda: 1950 or little before that. They have got their old Gauḍīyas.

Jayapatākā: They must have.

Prabhupāda: They were so popular, the report was that the readers of Gauḍīya were only hankering after that Bhagavāner Kathā, and after reading that they will throw away. Other articles, they were not interested.

Jayapatākā: So always your writing, people were attracted by.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact. Even my teachers were attracted in school days.

Jayapatākā: Recently that..., some professor said that you are the veritable incarnation of Vyāsadeva for Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Some have said like that. In my matriculation class I wrote some essay, and I got out of 100, 85 marks. But the teacher came to the class, "Who has written this?" So I stood up, and he thanked me, "Yes, it is very nice." He especially came to thank me for that essay.

Gargamuni: At least from the human standpoint, it is not humanly possible to have so many books in such a short time. There is no other author, at least that we know.

Jayapatākā: I showed your "As Brilliant as the Sun" to Tarun Kanti Gosh and one other minister, and when they saw that, then after, for ten minutes, all they could say was how Prabhupāda, how he is empowered by Lord Gaurāṅga.

Prabhupāda: They said like that.

Jayapatākā: Yes. That's a good movie, because it simply shows how you are doing so many books.

Gargamuni: We also showed that to that Atul Krishna Goswami. He came to Māyāpur. When he saw that, he was so... That movie, they had never seen such a thing, the process of printing the books.

Prabhupāda: He has good idea about...

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Jayapatākā: He has translated Caitanya-caritāmṛta in Hindi, they say.

Prabhupāda: He presented me one.

Jayapatākā: Many people ask that if that Gītār Gān could be put in Hindi.

Gargamuni: See, this Gita Press, they have these little books selling for one rupee, and they've sold lakhs. If we can put Gītār Gān into many languages, it will be bigger than this Gita Press.

Prabhupāda: So you can... It is poetry.

Jayapatākā: That's the difference, that Prabhupāda put it in poetry. Who has got that inspiration?

Prabhupāda: It is gān, gītā, song. One can chant it singing.

Jayapatākā: Some people say, "We want the Gītā. This is only gān." But then we have to say, "No, this has got the full Gītā. Everything is there. Every śloka is in here. Only put in gān form. But it is actual Gītā." Other people, they say, "I have so many Gītās." We say, "No, no, you can chant this with your harmonium, or by khol and karatāla you can sing." So many ways the people are taking it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they can sing very nicely.

Jayapatākā: When we can hear over the loudspeakers Gītār Gān being sung, then we will feel very happy. When the public will start singing publicly Gītār Gān...

Prabhupāda: Public singing?

Jayapatākā: When the public begin to recite Gītār Gān at their functions, like they're doing this Tulasīdāsa Rāmāyaṇa, if they start that in Bengal, Gītār Gān, then it will be a big success.

Prabhupāda: Tulasīdāsa. Tulasīdāsa Rāmāyaṇa is very popular. Because the Hindis, they have no literature. There is no literature.

Jayapatākā: If some Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava could rewrite that according to siddhānta, then it would be very good.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Jayapatākā: His Rāmāyaṇa has got many philosophical errors in it.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Jayapatākā: If a Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava could write that properly...

Prabhupāda: Why? Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava has immense literature. Why they should bother with Tulasīdāsa? By reading Tulasīdāsa's Rāma-carita-mānasa, in my experience I've not seen a single man has come to the spiritual platform. I have not seen a single man.

Gargamuni: Yes. That is not transcendental literature. Because by reading these books you come to transcendental realization.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is wanted. They want āśīrvāda. Just like so many people come, āśīrvāda. "You are a saintly person, you give me āśīrvāda so my material happiness may increase. I am not interested with the spiritual knowledge. Give me blessing so that for nothing I get..., upgrade my material opulence." This is their... So those Tulasīdāsa readers, they are like that. They want material opulence. Ārto-arthārthī. Arthārthī, want some material benefit. They chant Tulasīdāsa's Rāma-carita-mānasa for some material benefit. They're not interested in the spiritual advancement. Nobody. That..., in Delhi temple where they have paṇḍita? I'm forgetting his name.

Jayapatākā: One paṇḍita in Delhi? That one āśrama is there. The one whom you stayed with that time?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇadāsa?

Jayapatākā: I just met him once. Tejiyas brought him. He's got some āśrama. Some Ācārya or something. Ācārya something.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that Prabhākāra.

Jayapatākā: Ācārya Prabhākāra?

Prabhupāda: No. Prabhākāra is different. Prabhākāra was first-initiated by me.

Jayapatākā: Your first disciple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hari-nāma-mantra he was given.

Gargamuni: What year was that?

Prabhupāda: Nineteen fifty-four, I think. He did some service. In Jhansi...

Gargamuni: You had that League. I saw photos of that. That League of Devotees.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. A very nice building.

Gargamuni: Yeah. That was nice.

Prabhupāda: Very nice building.

Gargamuni: With front wall, and you had painted "League of Devotees."

Prabhupāda: Oh, you have seen.

Gargamuni: I have seen the photo. Big place.

Jayapatākā: That is still existing?

Prabhupāda: Very big place. That you have seen this Keśavajī Gauḍīya Maṭha in Mathurā? No. There is Caitanya Mahāprabhu Deity. That Deity was there. When I closed that, I brought, that big, big sannyāsī, and delivered Them. They will show.

Jayapatākā: One man cheated you there? Some land? No.

Prabhupāda: The building belonged to a big zamindar. So Prabhākāra arranged. So it was to be given to me, and I wanted to start the League of Devotees from there.

Gargamuni: Yes, big institution.

Prabhupāda: So I spent some money, whatever money I had, and it was going on. But in the meantime, this Lilavati Munshi..

Gargamuni: Oh, that Mr. Munshi.

Prabhupāda: Mrs. At that time she was wife of the governor. Her husband, K. M. Munshi. She had some organization of foreign women. So somehow or other she got imagination that "This house is very nice." She was governor's wife. So it was not given to me rightly, but I was using. So she wanted that house. So through collector and through all government officials' pressure. She wrote me later on, that "Bhaktivedantajī, you wanted to organize, but you could not. But I have got this institution. Why not give it to me?" So, of course, there were many lawyer friends. They advised me that "You do not give up. You should litigate." So I thought, "Who is going to litigate? Let me go to Vṛndāvana." So I left. So at Mathurā I delivered the Deity to this Keśavajī Gauḍīya Maṭha, and I made my place in Vṛndāvana.

Gargamuni: You had such a hard struggle in the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gargamuni: Because that place, I saw in the photo, everything was there. Nice big sign.

Prabhupāda: It was a very good place. This Prabhākāra helped me. Ninety percent was... But if I did not leave, nobody could drive me, that was a fact. But I thought, "Who is going to..., for litigation? She is the governor's wife, and she is pressing through collectors, through..." The manager who was in charge, he had some cinema house. So they had to renew the license, cinema house. And the collector pressed him, that "Unless you arrange for this house, we are not going to renew your license." So I thought, "Unnecessarily this man will be in trouble. I'll have to pay so many rupees, and she is governor's wife." And that lady came to me in Bombay several times = "You take my press. You have got so many publications." So I said, "I can take your press. I have got money. But what shall I do with it? It is letterpress. Now printing is done by offset." That press, Associated Press, it is very good press. It was... They got so many government contracts. The whole telephone guides were printed there. But because it is letterset press, it is costly. The government got offset press, cheaper price. So that contract was cancelled. So for her nefarious activity she is punished. Her husband died. She has no more importance, and she was one of the trustees of Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. So she was exempted. Now she's an ordinary woman. Press is not working.

Gargamuni: All they have is that Bhavan's Journal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Nobody reads that.

Jayapatākā: You say she was kicked out from the trusteeship. She's not part of that any more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The other trustees said that "You are simply spending. What you are doing?" After all, when she was wife of the governor she had some prestige. Otherwise... She invited me in that Juhu. She has got a house in Juhu. So I told her, "Yes, I can purchase your press. Fifty lakhs is not very big amount for me, but what shall I do? We are printing offset." That is the cause... Because nowadays printing is done by offset press, she lost all business. People got big, big contract, they got cheaper and better quality. Why they should stick to that press? And government contract was taken from them, big, huge business they lost. Tata Press, they have got offset. Government transferred there. And that was her main support. It was a nice, good press. Practically best press in Bombay, Associated Press. But because it is letter press... Now to maintain the letter press is very costly.

Jayapatākā: Yes. You have to get new type every year, and that is very costly.

Prabhupāda: Nowadays there is no need of letters, I mean to say...

Jayapatākā: Type.

Prabhupāda: Type.

Gargamuni: No. They have special... [break] ...on all the equipment.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: That is not so much for the amount of books that they have been able to produce in such a short time.

Prabhupāda: We can produce one book daily, the machines are so expert.

Jayapatākā: They do outside work as well?

Gargamuni: What for? We have unlimited...

Prabhupāda: Why? Botheration. You have to satisfy your customer, waste time. We keep our machine for our own work.

Gargamuni: We have so many books. As soon as we print a new book, the previous book is out of print; we have to print again.

Prabhupāda: The first machine introduced by you, yes.

Gargamuni: Oh, the mimeograph. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: Then other machines came. I did not know, but I was thinking that if some typist would hear my tapes and type, I was thinking like that. Expert typist. Formerly, it was being done like that. Hear, tape recorder. You hear something and then type. Like that. And this machine, you shall, it is, automatically, you hear and type, hear and type.

Jayapatākā: This is made for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the advancement on that idea, Dictaphone. Telephone. And the dictation of the author, he's hearing and typing. Nowadays everyone is using. The doctors even dictate prescription. The doctor, instead of sending note, he dictates for such and such patient, "He should receive this, take like that." That is recorded. Another, another, and immediately taken, and the compounder hears and... No writing.

Jayapatākā: Actually you are dictating the prescription for the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhavauṣadhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt [SB 10.1.4] And prescription is so sweet it pleases the ear and the heart. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Bhavauṣadhi chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. It is medicine for this material disease. At the same time, it is so pleasing to the ear and the heart. This is the very word. Bhavauṣadhi chrotra. Śrotra means aural. Śrotra-manaḥ, and mind. Mano 'bhirāmāt. Abhirāma, pleasing.

Jayapatākā: After rainy season you'll be coming to Māyāpur, then?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: We'll write when the weather improves.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Jayapatākā: We'll write when the rains cease. [offers obeisances]

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]