Room Conversation , Hyderabad , 1976-08-17
[much background noise]
Harikeśa: Speak loudly.
Hari-śauri: It's very noisy.
Mahāṁśa: This is Dr. Ghosh. This is Visukeran[?] Agarwal, one of our very close friends in Hyderabad. He's a very close friend in Hyderabad.
Prabhupāda: I think I have seen you.
Mahāṁśa: Oh, yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Dr. Ghosh. [conversation in Bengali] After this function you can go.
Dr. Ghosh: And he knows about Parikan[?]. It's a very wonderful place.
Prabhupāda: I shall go there.
Mahāṁśa: There are very, very big schools there.
Dr. Ghosh: [Bengali conversation with Prabhupāda]
Prabhupāda: Mo-sama patita prabhu nā pāibe āra [Prārthanā 39]. This was the appeal made by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura = "My Lord, Your incarnation is for very, very fallen souls, and You'll not find anyone who is more fallen than me. Therefore my claim is first." [Bengali conversation; talk includes about schools, dramatic play and dance theater] Our life should be simplified. We shall not unnecesarily suffer. [Bengali conversation] Yuktāhāra-vihārasya [Bg. 6.17].
Dr. Ghosh: Minimum. Dignity. [Bengali]
Prabhupāda: [indistinct] Find out this verse.
Devotee: Yukta-ceṣṭasya karmaṇā?
Prabhupāda: Where is Bhagavad-gītā?
Dr. Ghosh: [Bengali conversation with Prabhupāda]
Prabhupāda: Gopāla. [Bengali] Do you think they are ordinary calf?
Mahāṁśa: To be embraced by Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: They are associates. They are associating with Lord as calf, as cow. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ [Bs. 5.37]. Nija-rūpa. [guest speaks in Bengali, Prabhupāda answers in English] In Vṛndāvana, the calves, the cows, the trees, the land, the water---everyone, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ. That is expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Cit-śakti. There are three energies = spiritual, material and marginal. So Vṛndāvana affairs means expansion of Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Sac-cid-ānanda. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Rasa, mellow. Everyone is trying to relish some mellow. Here in this material world we get family to taste some mellows. One kind of mellow is wife, one kind of mellow are children, one kind of mellow is the servants, one kind of mellow is the friends, one kind of mellow is the properties. They are all mellows, rasa. Unless there is some taste, why one should be hankering after all these things? Why one is hankering after some woman or some man or some friends or for children? One who has got no children, he's hankering after some child. He's expecting, "When I shall get a child?" The rasa. There is husband-wife rasa, but there is no rasa of the child. Therefore they are praying, "When we shall get a child?" So there is another rasa. So raso vai saḥ. He is the reservoir of rasas. So if we derive all the rasas from the Supreme, because He is the reservoir of rasas...
Prabhupāda: Akhila-rasāmṛta, yes. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. So you can have all the rasas, and that is the origin of bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. In bhakti, that rasa, you become in the ocean of rasa. You're hankering after rasa. There is a Vedic injunction, raso vai saḥ labdhvānandi ānandī.[?] One who has got the rasa, labdhvānandi, then he gets the real ānanda. That ānanda-cinmaya-rasa expansion is Kṛṣṇa's calves, cows, gopī friends, cowherd boy friends, Nanda, Yaśodāmāyi, so many. So to be Kṛṣṇa conscious means to participate with these rasas. It is not dry. It is not dry, like, simply so 'ham, so'ham, finished. So 'ham, they do not know the meaning. So 'ham means I belong to the same rasa. I also eligible to enjoy the same rasa. But Kṛṣṇa is... [break] ...and the calves, the cows are enjoying the rasa as predominated. Just like husband and wife, they are enjoying, both. But one is enjoying as the husband, predominator. The husband is forcefully dragging the wife. She's also... While she is dragged by force, she enjoys. That is another rasa. But there is rasa. Combined together it becomes rasa. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa does not enjoy this material. This material rasa is the perverted reflection of that cinmaya-rasa. So we have to get ourselves nil of all these material rasas, and we have to be situated in the cinmaya. Then our..., ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12]. Then our life is perfect. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rasa is there. Here perverted reflection. The perverted reflection... My Guru Mahārāja used to say to taste milk in white, what is called, lime water. White lime water, it looks like milk. But it is not milk. It is different thing. Similarly, we are trying to taste the rasa of milk in lime water. Therefore we are baffled.
Indian man: That is true. Whole universe is rasa. Even in Mars they're trying to find humidity. What is humidity, rasa. Everything is moving on the rasa only. We are floating on rasa.
Prabhupāda: Our aim of understanding this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is not a sentiment. It is a great science, great science. Otherwise how we are writing so many books? If it was a dry...
Indian man: Nothing happens in dryness.
Prabhupāda: Why people are accepting our books? You'll be surprised, we are selling book to the extent of six lakhs of rupees per day. Daily. Daily we are selling six lakhs of rupees' worth all over the world. So people think philosophy, religion, dry subject matter. If it was dry subject matter, how they could purchase so many books? It is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. They are getting for the first time, here is real ānanda. Therefore they are appreciating. Everyone, learned circle, they are giving appreciation. In [indistinct] foreign circles. So, there was no such literature. It is the first time. Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇaṁ vaiṣṇavānām... [SB 12.13.18]. So unless they're really relishing some rasa, how they are purchasing? This is the first distribution of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa throughout the whole world, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I am very happy that you are also very [indistinct]. Let us join together; we shall raise...
Dr. Ghosh: We can consult and fix a date, what suits Prabhupāda best, then I will arrange for the rest at that end.
Mahāṁśa: When are you leaving Hyderabad?
Dr. Ghosh: I'm leaving just after... You see, I was leaving long ago, but he was coming. So I will leave 19th morning plane. That is the day after the Janmāṣṭamī tomorrow. Night, whatever festivity, I'll be here. I think there will be some saṅkīrtana also. After that, early morning, I'll catch the plane and go up to Madras, and there I shall fly again to Mathila. It is not very far, as you are thinking, but [Bengali] ...to recharge. Because they are recharging the battery of the urban line. But they also will be recharging that battery in a nice cosmic place.
Prabhupāda: Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, our rasa, it can be tasted by the topmost intellectual man, and it can be tasted by the lowest...
Dr. Ghosh: No intellect at all. I know that.
Prabhupāda: But why? Because this intellect, highest or lowest, that is in relationship with the body. But it is beyond the body. It is not... Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. It is beyond the three guṇas. The body is of the material guṇas---sattva, rajas, tamas. One man is good man, one man is passionate, one is foolish. Guṇa. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo'sya. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhunjante guṇān [Bg. 13.22]? [aside:] Find out this. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhunjante.... Beginning with puruṣaḥ. Everything is explained, Bhagavad-gītā.
Dr. Ghosh: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is matchless. We are reading and re-reading, and every time we find much more, you see? Terrific. And you have put the simplest method---"as it is," as you say. Why complicate, tinker this... That is why... You know, we can be safely called intellectuals. But, you know, we are tired of it. Tired. We cannot find anything. Neti neti vicāra te patra patra... Impossible. Then what do you get out of the life? The joy, rasa [Bengali]. And that is the main substance. To get it you cannot get neti neti [Bengali]...
Prabhupāda: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi [Bg. 13.22]. [aside:] Find out. Puruṣaḥ. Why you cannot find this verse? What you are...
Mahāṁśa: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti, bhuñjante...
Prabhupāda: Tad guṇān. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi. You did not find?
Dr. Ghosh: [Bengali] Bhāgavatam series twenty volume.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Seventeen volumes. Seventeen.
Dr. Ghosh: I have only two. Can I..., is there any set available? I would like to buy the rest.
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
Prabhupāda: Puruṣa, the living entity, he is now within the material energy. Prakṛti-sthaḥ. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho...
Mahāṁśa: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi.
Prabhupāda: Stho hi.
Mahāṁśa: Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.
Prabhupāda: On account of his being in touch with the material energy, he has to suffer or enjoy the modes of material nature. Modes of material nature. And because, just like in your medical science one is suffering from a certain type of disease on account of his being infected by the similar verus or..., what is called?
Indian man: Virus. [Bengali] Now we know even the inanimate is animate, but by virology only it is changing. All the unanimate subject is slowly being transformed into animate. We are all convinced the whole process is the same. It's a terrific science now, virology. Latest, we have discovered. I am also working on virology quite a bit for all the virus disease and all. And we can eliminate them by only vacuum. My whole cure, they call it miracle and all this nonsense, it is only creating a vacuum which automatically takes away.
Prabhupāda: This virology will be complete...
Indian man: When we accept this.
Prabhupāda: ...when you accept this.
Indian man: I know. [laughs] And I have accepted long ago. Because I felt, as a sincere worker, medicine doesn't interest me. What interests me is the cure. My profession is to cure, not to study the medicines. That is the cure.
Prabhupāda: Here it is very clearly stated that kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. The virology, infection, kāraṇam, that is the kāraṇam. Kāraṇam guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are varieties of life? One is very intelligent...
Indian man: You know also in [Sanskrit].
Prabhupāda: Same thing.
Indian man: Same thing, no? Everything has light. Only it is in transformation by that formula, it is inanimate to animate. That is what is happening all around us.
Prabhupāda: So, if from... Just like medical science... It is also a medical science. Bhavauṣadhi. It is... Auṣadhi means medical science. This is bhavauṣadhi. By this treatment one becomes relieved from the material disease. Bhavauṣadhi. Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. But the medicine is so nice that it is pleasing to the ear and to the heart. The medicine pleasing to the ear? What is that.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man: [Bengali] We decide a date, and take... Not too... We have no means for having too many people, but about dozen people, or ten people can come. And they will have all facility. We can arrange a station wagon and everything there. You have to come up to Kodaikanal Road Station. And if you like we shall arrange for your departure from Madras. [Bengali] We will come with you. We will accompany you all the way. [Bengali conversation interspersed] When you come there I'll get everything ready. It is settled you are coming at there earliest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When they'll make program, conveniently, I shall go.
Indian man: I'm leaving on 29th morning. If you can give me a word by tomorrow evening. Not 29th; 19th. Today is 17th.
Prabhupāda: They cannot decide so soon.
Indian man: Janmāṣṭamī kare.
Prabhupāda: Janmāṣṭamī kare. Another program is that we are going that side during [indistinct]. [Bengali conversation] So we have to see. [indistinct background comments by devotees] You also send this.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, I have to take little time.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Please come in.
Indians: Jaya. Prabhupāda ki jaya.
Prabhupāda: Give them little prasādam. [Bengali]
Gurukṛpā: He's a life member from Bangalore. He was one of our first members in South India.
Prabhupāda: I saw you? Give them prasādam.
Indian man: Last night at the airport.
Prabhupāda: Give them prasādam.
Devotee: They had prasādam.
Prabhupāda: From Bangalore?
Indian man (2): Bangalore.
jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ
Without bhagavad-bhakti, this so-called advancement of civilization is simply decorating the dead body.
Indian man (2): Correct. Cent percent correct.
Prabhupāda: What is the use of decorating the dead body?
Indian man (2): Correct. Yes. We must decorate real...
Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns = gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ [Bg. 2.11]. So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. And Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. [Hindi] And the first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān [Bg. 2.11] = "You are talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal." So whole world is interested with this body, and Bhagavad-gītā's teaching begins condemning the concept of body. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Nobody knows this. And they are very learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. All these rascals, they're claiming to be learned scholar of Bhagavad-gītā.
Indian man (2): [Hindi] We are lucky souls that we are surrendered souls.
Prabhupāda: [Hindi conversation] Whatever is done, it is by single man's effort. If all our actually leaders, they take up, then India will be glorified. They'll feel... Yes, they're expecting. Outside India, people, they expect that there is something better knowledge in India. Therefore as soon as some svāmīs or yogī goes there, they come. But they cheat.
Indian man (2): Many have come to cheat.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, I shall say that, sir, they do not know anything, and they go there for teaching yoga. And they are bogus.
Indian man (2): Bogus, bogus. So many bogus people are going.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is yoga.
Indian man (2): They do not know what is what. What that is truth. They don't know.
Prabhupāda: And they get cheap money and women and that's all. That is their business. [Bengali conversation]
Gurukṛpā: He has a temple. The whole third floor of his house is a temple. He has Sītā-Rāma, Kṛṣṇa, Gopāla. He has big temple. They have saṅkīrtana every night. Every morning and night.
Indian man (2): [Hindi conversation with Prabhupāda]
Gurukṛpā: That Raṅganātha temple is that temple where they do not allow us in. So Sampat Kumar and all of these paṇḍitas, they will sign one letter trying to request them, also with the Purī people, to request them to let us in. While they are all here they will do that. Also Sampat Kumar was thinking that in November and December in South India the weather is nice because the rainy season is finished, and it would be a very good time to go and visit many of the temples. He personally knows many people in all the big temples = Shri Rangam, Kañcipuram, Mahabalipuram, Tirupati. They could arrange for receptions and programs.
Prabhupāda: [Hindi with Indians] Indians, they are not coming. Intelligent, educated Indians, they are not coming. [Hindi with Indians] Especially South Indians, they are, still their Indian original culture is still there in South India. Other parts of India, they are not now Hindu.
Indian man (3): Correct. [Hindi conversation]
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] We have got buses. We have got buses---two, three. Any number of. It is very simple method, that we combine together, Indian and foreigners. Go in buses. [Hindi] Now it should be organized movement. This is simply [Hindi].
Indian man (3): You must also come in Bangalore once. Then it will be all...
Prabhupāda: Immediately think over that these Europeans, Americans are there. Now take up the association of another, at least one dozen, [indistinct] Indians, and let us go together, grāma to grāma... What do you think? Is that all right?
Yaśodānandana: We could go from Madras...
Indian man (2): Anywhere. Any village. All the villages...
Prabhupāda: You start from anywhere and go anywhere and sit down and chant. In India, Bhārata-bhūmi hari-kīrtana [Hindi]. Thousands will come. That is India. You won't have to advertise that "There is hari-kīrtana. Come." No. As soon as you begin, immediately thousands. As soon as there will be sugar grain, immediately the ants will come. It is like that. This is a fact.
Indian man (3): Correct, correct. Hundred per cent correct. [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Immediately. Just get one dozen good---I mean, good or bad, it doesn't matter---who is ready to work for this purpose. And our men are ready. Our buses are ready. So let us go. There is no question of selecting place. Anywhere. Anywhere.
Indian man (3): Any place, anywhere, all the places.
Prabhupāda: You go and find out some good place for camping and begin kīrtana. Get down from the bus and begin kīrtana. Then all friends will come immediately. They will offer shelter, they will offer food---everything. One thing is that their difficulty is language. Indians are there, they can speak on the local language.
Indian man (2): They can explain everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore wanted.
Indian man (3): [Hindi]
Yaśomatīnandana: In Vaikuṇṭha Ekādaśī. In Shri Rangam they have this giant festival every year, the biggest festival in India. It's Vaikuṇṭha Ekādaśī in December.
Indian man (2): Last December we went there.
Yaśomatīnandana: Very big. November-December is a very good time. Pañca-puram. Baradrāj.
Indian man (2): From here. From south [indistinct] up to Cape Comorin. [Hindi conversation]
Yaśomatīnandana: He knows all the places. This is the original birth, Shri Rangam.
Prabhupāda: Now with Suraji's[?] cooperation make a program.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, we will do like that. November-December will be very suitable time. Then in January, the Kumbha-melā, we will try to organize something big there also. January, Allahabad, Kumbha-melā
Prabhupāda: [Hindi conversation with Indians]
Prabhupāda: That's all. Stop now.
Harikeśa: I was just going to say you should take massage now. I was just going to say it's time for massage.
Harikeśa: Can I tell you about the bank? Punjab National Bank is down the street, and we have our temple account there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Punjab National Bank is there. That's all right.
Harikeśa: So how much do you want to deposit?
Prabhupāda: That I have to count.
Harikeśa: So we can do it any time. And before you arrange this Kumbha-melā---it's very cold there.
Prabhupāda: Don't talk now.
Hari-śauri: Everything is going on. Wood carving, cement lay, painting, marble polishing. The yajña.
Prabhupāda: If we would have remained there... These people are coming. How they could see? [indistinct]
Hari-śauri: Still, it would have been very quiet.
Prabhupāda: We are not [indistinct]. Besides that, we don't want quietness. We want how many are [indistinct].
Hari-śauri: Jaya. If you wanted quietness, you could have stayed in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [end]