Morning Walk , Bombay , 1976-08-15
[on roof of apartment. Śrīla Prabhupāda was not feeling strong enough to walk]
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...decide where your apartment will be.
Prabhupāda: That roof is the fifth story?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sixth.
Prabhupāda: Sixth. So we are finishing fifth only?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We are finished, will be six stories. Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Only fifth, up floors?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you can't go more than that. This is near the airport. Now they've introduced a new law that you can't go even below this. What we did is the new law has just come into effect, and so we did the slabs in the night.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a new law which reduces the height even further. You can't have any big buildings in Bombay now.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know the reason, but apparently it's Indira Gandhi doesn't like big buildings. So actually, according to the new law we have already built more than what the legal limit is. So what we did...
Prabhupāda: No, we have got some assetship for the road? We have left over? Where is Saurabha?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Saurabha is in the front. Shall I call him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...quite nice place for walking. Why it is drying? The leaf? [break]
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: People are coming just to see the building now.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When it is built it will be, I think, just like Vṛndāvana. Many people think that the temple is these two towers. They think that the actual temple are these towers.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is included in the... [break]
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...watch the drama tonight also? They're going to have a drama also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This machine? It's a water cooler. Someone donated it to us about two, three years ago.
Prabhupāda: It acts?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Hari-śauri: That's where we get all the drinking water from.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Cold water from. We put boiled water into it. Bring boiled water from the kitchen.
Prabhupāda: We have no tap water here?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have tap water, but it's not drinking water. I mean, it needs to be boiled. In Delhi you can drink the tap water---they say it's okay---but in Bombay it's very risky to drink tap water. Especially in monsoon. [break] ...famous actress and singer called Sulakshana Pandit. She's one of our devotee's sister-in-law also. She has some devotion. So she is coming to sing bhajanas tomorrow in the paṇḍāl. Is that okay? She's very famous.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's okay.
Prabhupāda: Before Deity one can do. Before Deity one can show devotional activities, but not otherwise. Otherwise it will be sense enjoyment.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana once you told me not to have the rāsa-līlā by these professionals also.
Prabhupāda: No, before Deity, everything.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They can do it.
Prabhupāda: [counting floors] One, two, three, four, five, six? No?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's five. Including the ground floor it comes to six.
Harikeśa: One, two, three, four, five, six. From the ground floor it's twice as high.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. [all chant japa] [break]
Prabhupāda: We are..., some space is due to us on account of giving up the road?
Saurabha: That is already calculated. That is given to us already.
Saurabha: F.S.I. [Floor Space Index]
Saurabha: That we have already. We have used that in that building. We have used it in the building that is coming up here.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is already. You have submitted the plan?
Prabhupāda: They have sanctioned?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It will take about a month to endorse it.
Saurabha: About a month.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. [break] ...such a nice walking, this route.
Acyutānanda: Good air.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Acyutānanda: We're invited to do kīrtana to inaugurate a Bhāgavata-saptāha, and the Dvārakā Śaṅkarācārya will be present.
Acyutānanda: It's Sumati Morarji's...
Acyutānanda: I don't know what the place is.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's somewhere in Braverly[?], but she's sponsoring or she's associated with it.
Acyutānanda: It's probably a Vallabha paṇḍita.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have no objection with Vallabha.
Acyutānanda: They're sending two cars.
Prabhupāda: Oh. When?
Acyutānanda: This morning. So I wanted to invite him to come and see the temple...
Acyutānanda: ...and Your Divine Grace...
Prabhupāda: About that Vallabhācārya, she wrote me letter. I've replied it. I replied it.
Acyutānanda: Yes, Girirāja told me. I never mention those...
Prabhupāda: No, don't mention it.
Acyutānanda: Because they don't listen. Their history is that Vallabhācārya had the dream and discovered Govardhana and Śrī Nāthajī, Gopāla Deity, and there was no Mādhavendra Purī.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā? But in the court it has been established. One lawyer in Delhi, he told me that this Deity belongs to the Gauḍīya-sampradāya. In the court it has...
Acyutānanda: How did it come to them?
Prabhupāda: That Mādhavendra Purī or somebody delivered to Vallabhācārya. Mādhavendra Purī is not possible; somebody else. [break] Dvārakā Śaṅkarācārya, he's a Māyāvādī, and he'll give Bhāgavata?
Acyutānanda: No, he's just going to give blessings to the... He's presiding, I guess. [break]
Prabhupāda: That is also complete like this?
Saurabha: Yes. The other side we are making one special room for you on the roof. So...
Prabhupāda: One special room like this? No.
Saurabha: That is the lift room. But next to that, the similar room, the same size. It is not done. Because that we have to do later on. We're not allowed to do that now. There's a new law passed in Bombay that no one can build higher than six stories, nowhere in Bombay. So we had to rush for this; otherwise they would have stopped us.
Prabhupāda: So why you are not rushing?
Saurabha: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: Why you are not rushing?
Saurabha: No, this is finished. We have reached the highest. That point is the highest. It's only for the slab. Afterwards, they don't mind. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...from this light.
Hari-śauri: The switch is just in front of Prabhupāda's door.
Prabhupāda: There was a seat? Where it gone, that seat?
Hari-śauri: They probably took it in because of the rain. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...rainy season, these leaves should have been very green, but it is not green. Huh?
Saurabha: It's also the sea wind that kills a lot of trees. Not so much here, but if one goes down to the sea, all trees, they have no leaves. There's some type of salt or something in the air that destroys plants. Here it's all right, but close to the sea it's all... That must affect them. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...saptāha, it is not authorized.
Acyutānanda: No. But in some editions of Bhāgavatam they have a Bhāgavata-māhātmyam, and there's a story about bhakti and jñāna and vairāgya and Nārada Muni.
Prabhupāda: That no ācārya has mentioned.
Harikeśa: That's Gītā Press again. That's Gītā Press.
Acyutānanda: They say how this is the instructions for how Bhāgavata should be read in seven days up to this canto.
Prabhupāda: Gītā Press was Māyāvādī. [break]
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This lady? That man there? He's our accountant, Mr. Krishna. He lives with us full time. He's doing very good service.
Vāsughoṣa: About two months ago in Hyderabad they had a very big Bhāgavata-saptāha. One thousand and eight brāhmaṇas chanting Bhāgavatam for seven days, and it was presided over by a big Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī, Rāmānuja-sampradāya. And all the local Marwaris, they gave lakhs of rupees for prasādam and so many things.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They hurt our collection, I think.
Vāsughoṣa: No, they haven't given anything to our temple, but for this. The same people, some of them, most of them refused even to become members. One man who refused me to become a member, he gave fifty thousand rupees for prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Why they refused us, or help us?
Hari-śauri: He's talking about some Bhāgavata-saptāha they had there.
Prabhupāda: Because it is...
Acyutānanda: They are the "Hindus." We are the foreigners.
Yaśomatīnandana: But they don't go too long, because in Ahmedabad they have started one Gujarat...., one Bhāgavata-hṛdaya-pīṭha.[?] Just outside Ahmedabad. And he had a plan to build a whole huge temple and dharmaśālās and schools, gurukulas. That Krishna Shankara Shastri, that poor fellow, he started something, and now he has scarcity; he cannot find funds to finish his project. So the project is lying idle for almost two years. They collected sixty, seventy lakhs initially, but then...
Prabhupāda: Sixty, seventy lakhs? And he squandered it?
Yaśomatīnandana: No. He has got land and he has got some buildings, but now he has no funds to go further. And there also no local people give. It's all he collected in London and Africa from the Gujaratis. [break] ...in becoming trustees and managing the things, but they will not give any money.
Prabhupāda: So bring some sitting place.
Vāsughoṣa: Every brāhmaṇa got 116 rupees, and they brought him a cādara and they paid for prasādam. Lakhs of people came from all over central India, Andhra Pradesh, thousands and thousands. They paid for prasādam. Whole paṇḍāl, huge paṇḍāl, they went to this exhibition ground. And then they gave..., the rest of the money went to the Rāmānuja Swami.
Acyutānanda: Oh, that was the yajña.
Vāsughoṣa: Jeeyar Swami. Sriman Narayana Jeeyar.
Acyutānanda: That's not a Bhāgavata-saptāha.
Vāsughoṣa: Yes, Sahasra-Bhāgavata. They had one thousand...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that Dongre Maharaja?
Yaśomatīnandana: That Dongre is very famous in Gujarat, so now he has mostly become famous all over India.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they are booking thirty rooms in our guesthouse for ten days for the program.
Acyutānanda: You've got new japa beads, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. From tulasī. It was made in Honolulu. In Honolulu tulasī plants are very luxurious. Hyderabad local people, they are not sympathetic with our temple? Huh? Not sympathetic?
Acyutānanda: But when their caste guru comes they may come out, because that's a big thing. Narayana Jeeyar, Rāmānuja-sampradāya, so the Rāmānujas have to pay their respects to their own ācārya. The temple is being built. And the location of Hyderabad is such that there are so many guesthouses, because it's near the station, Nampally Station. There are many guesthouses. So from all over India people who stop in Hyderabad, they come to the temple. So from all over Andhra we got invitations from people who had come to the temple. [indistinct---plane going over]
Acyutānanda: There's the Vṛndāvana Hotel, and that Ashoka?
Acyutānanda: Annapurna Hotel. So many guesthouses.
Prabhupāda: They visit our temple?
Vāsughoṣa: All those brāhmaṇas that came for the yajña, and everybody, after the yajña ended at about six-thirty, they immediately came to the temple, our temple, afterwards. Everybody knew. We distributed thousands of books there. It was very good book distribution. We sold in one day, you know, we were selling two thousand rupees a day worth of books. Everybody that came there was very pious.
Prabhupāda: We took advantage.
Vāsughoṣa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is pious, how he can...
Vāsughoṣa: Yes, we went there every day and we had all day book distribution and kīrtana. Actually some of the Marwaris were good friends of ours, so we wanted to get... They announced that we were there and we were selling books over the loudspeaker system. Very good. They gave us..., we had a good place for book distribution.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Bombay also Sumati Morarji had a big program in her house recently. There were huge crowds, and our devotees went there to distribute books afterwards.
Yaśomatīnandana: They didn't like it, though. Gaja, Gaja came, from Śrī Nāthajī, has come to her house.
Prabhupāda: What is the idea, Gaja? Due to her influence people came. Not for the Gaja. She is influential, and something is being done, everyone knows that.
Acyutānanda: In Bangalore we went to another Rāmānuja sannyāsī's āśrama, and he invited us to see an initiation, and they burned the śaṅkha-cakra on the shoulders, by fire---branded. That means they're initiated.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they put...
Dr. Patel: It's all right for me. [Hindi conversation]
Prabhupāda: Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. Bhavauṣadhi [SB 10.1.4]. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: Highest medicine.
Prabhupāda: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt. And it is very pleasing to the ear and the heart. Mana, śrotra. Śrotra means...
Dr. Patel: Ears and mind.
Prabhupāda: Ears and mind. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. This chanting is properly done by a person who has fully satisfied his material desires. Satiated = no more. Nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ. Tṛṣṇa. Nivṛtta. No more material desire. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhi [SB 10.1.4], and it is the medicine for this bhava-roga. Bhava, punar bhava. Once take your birth, then die, then punar bhava. So this is bhava-roga. [Hindi] Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānāt. [aside:] Just spread it here. According to Vedic system, if one has no sitting place, he can offer a straw.
Dr. Patel: That is the greatest sitting place.
Prabhupāda: They should offer a straw, "Sir, I have no sitting place, kindly accept this straw." And one glass of water. This should be offered to any guest. This is Vedic system. Everyone should be received properly, even if he's enemy. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. So,
virajyeta pumān vinā paśughnāt
Except paśughna, nobody can be aloof from this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is bhavauṣadhi. This is good place for walking also.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Shall we call that [indistinct] Pandit Āyur-Veda ācārya of India for you? If you don't believe in our medicine?
Prabhupāda: No, no. [laughs]
Dr. Patel: What do you say? After all, this is our...
Prabhupāda: No, medicine is...
Dr. Patel: No, what I mean to say, that kṣetra and kṣetrajña are depend on each other. If there is no kṣetra, there will be no kṣetrajña to stay.
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Dr. Patel: So you have got to look after that kṣetra, or what the kṣetrajña will be happy there to live there? I think I am not wrong.
Prabhupāda: No, you are right. Kṣetra is changeable. Kṣetrajña is permanent.
Dr. Patel: Permanent, but changing kṣetra may be kept till the kṣetrajña is there, presiding over it.
Prabhupāda: However you may try, antavanta ime dehāḥ [Bg. 2.18].
Dr. Patel: Antavanta ime dehāḥ, that is right, but the anta may not be got too quickly.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not.
Indian man: What is this [Hindi]?
Dr. Patel: Sagra[?] is meant for only cough. [Hindi] Is Āyur-Vedic, very good medicine.
Indian man: Where can we get some?
Dr. Patel: You can grow them here in this garden.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very easy.
Indian man: Where can I buy it?
Dr. Patel: You can buy it from the market, seraba-sagra.[?]. Syrup, it is in the form of paste. Leaves are also paste. You have to make a decoction out of it. Vasaka is recognized by the Western medicine also. Americans are importing it.
Prabhupāda: It was introduced by Dr. Bose.
Dr. Patel: Bose, yes.
Prabhupāda: He introduced so many Indian drugs in the...
Dr. Patel: These two [indistinct], are extremely wonderful. They have in Bengal, this Standard Pharmaceuticals of Bengal, been able to isolate penicillin from cow dung, and they have a big plant in Calcutta producing penicillin from cow dung. It's stated, you know, how cow dung was considered sacred. Perhaps we did not know that, but by experience.
Prabhupāda: Before this, one Monmohan Gosh, Dr. Monmohan Gosh, he was pathologist in medical college. He proved the antiseptic properties of gobara. He was Dr. Gosh's friend. So he was working in his laboratory also. I know. Long ago.
Dr. Patel: And in gomūtra, sir, there are so many hormones coming out, and a big sample of hormones which can be resynthesized as human hormones. That is why gomūtra is being drunk.
Prabhupāda: Gomūtra is good medicine for liver disease.
Dr. Patel: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: If you drink urine of...
Dr. Patel: Yes, it is proved scientifically so many hormones and by-products of hormones which can be resynthesized into human hormones, [indistinct] modern science.
Indian man: [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: That's right. Gomūtra is considered sacred by we people that we put a drop in the newly born child's mouth.
Prabhupāda: Pañca-gavya, gomūtra is one of the parts. Pañca-gavya.
Dr. Patel: Milk and honey. Five ingredients, gomūtra is one of the five things. Honey, milk...
Prabhupāda: No, that is pañca-amṛta. Pañca-gavya a little different. Gobara, urine, then milk, then yogurt, then ghee. This is pañca-gavya: pertaining to the cow. And that honey, that is pañca-amṛta.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I have a question. Can I ask it?
Dr. Patel: Now then, Arjuna was so advised that he should fight out. So in that case, I mean we all consider he was right to follow Kṛṣṇa advice. Then if a man is overtaken by disease, and if he fights out that...
Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say that, that he should not fight. It is my personal. Not that one should not take care of the body or one should not eat medicine. That is not. I like this; let me do without medicine. That is my personal. It is...
Dr. Patel: What is medicine? Any herb is a medicine. Even food is a medicine.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, I don't decry medicine. That is not my business.
Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't say decry. But you don't want to take advantage of medicine.
Prabhupāda: Medicine... Just like a type of vairāgya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal. I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name of W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by, I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brāhmaṇa. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, he was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way." So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.
Dr. Patel: He just died.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Brahmacaryeṇa. Tapasya, one of the items is anāhāra. Anāhāra: as far as possible not to eat. That is one of the items of tapasya.
Vāsughoṣa: You know this ācārya, Vinoba Bhave, he's going on a fast until death starting in September to end cow slaughter in India. [background discussion]
Prabhupāda: Whole Europe, there is no cloud, no rain.
Dr. Patel: There's lot of rain here.
Prabhupāda: Fortunate, vṛṣṭi. Still India fortunate. I'm coming from London, Paris and Tehran. All fields yellow. And Europe, so much scorching heat and sunshine, I never seen. Especially in London. This time I saw everything has become yellow, the greenness gone.
Dr. Patel: The non-monsoon countries can produce more food than the monsoon countries. The monsoon comes only three months in a year. Those people get rain all year 'round, they can grow better crops. This is how so many parts of North America and Europe, they can have sufficient crops all the year. We can't have it here.
Prabhupāda: No, there is scarcity of fodder also. They are killing the animal premature. They cannot feed it. It has come to this point.
Dr. Patel: [indistinct] shall say in favor of vegetarianism. We are fools raising fodder and this thing and again raising animals on that and feeding on that. Why can't we directly feed on poor animals? I think the human race will survive more that way than by eating animals, but economically it is more sound.
Prabhupāda: Certainly. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended, annād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. Kṛṣṇa never said māṁsād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never said. This is artificial. In the lower stage of human civilization, when they cannot produce food, they do not know how to do it, so the animals are killed. What can they do? But actual food is anna, food grain. Even for the animals. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Yajñād bhavati bhū... So there is no yajña. There is no yajña. So this saṅkīrtana-yajña is the only yajña in Kali-yuga. So if they perform, everything is all right. There will be cloud, there will be rain.
Dr. Patel: Yajña karma samudbhava.
Prabhupāda: Yajña, in this... Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. In the Kali-yuga, the other yajñas are not possible. First of all, there is no yājñika-brāhmaṇa and paraphernalia---so many things. Perhaps if we perform yajña and pour ghee on it, immediately government arrest.
Dr. Patel: There is not enough ghee.
Prabhupāda: Ghee can be produced immense. I have studied. Immensely you can produce, by keeping cows. Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. The go-rakṣya is essential. It is not that animal slaughter stopping. No. Kṛṣṇa could have said paśu-rakṣya. No, Kṛṣṇa has not said. Go-rakṣya. Those who are animal eaters, they can indulge in eating other insignificant animals.
Dr. Patel: I think, sir, go-rakṣya must be the backbone of the economy.
Prabhupāda: No, health, brain, everything. Milk is miracle food. And we are practically experiencing in our farms that if the cows are protected nicely, they can supply immense milk. We are getting in our farms, extra milk. Everyone is eating so many preparations---sandeśa, rasagullā, rābrī. They are surprised. In their history they have not eaten all these things.
Dr. Patel: They are eating the milk-producing animal, so milk will not...
Prabhupāda: No, they advertise milk is bad.
Dr. Patel: Who?
Prabhupāda: These Europeans, Americans.
Dr. Patel: Really?
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Don't eat milk." Do they not? And they cannot drink also. In Bengal there is a proverb, kule pete ghiya[?] [indistinct]. If you supply preparation made of ghee to the dog, he cannot digest it.
Dr. Patel: [quotes proverb in Bengali]
Prabhupāda: Hah! They cannot digest factually. They get..., what is called? That disease?
Prabhupāda: Jaundice. They cannot eat much milk product.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. Cow is the biggest factory to produce protein, first-class proteins for human beings. Instead of taking the advantage of the products of the factory, they eat out the factory itself. [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: So we see practically in our farm the cows give more milk than other farms.
Dr. Patel: The satisfaction of the animal.
Prabhupāda: They are very satisfied. [to devotee:] You have been in New Vrindavan with me? No, you were not. So the cows are so happy that... Just like in India. They are walking here and there.
Dr. Patel: They don't do anything. Now they have, they have [Hindi], brought some crossing, and each cow, Jersey cows and Indian cows, they have crossed, and they are producing more than thirty liters of milk every day. Thirty, forty liters
Prabhupāda: One liter means?
Indian man = Two pounds, one ounce
Dr. Patel: Two pounds.
Prabhupāda: So we have got cows, they are supplying more than hundred pounds.
Indian man: This cost is three thousand rupees, one cow. Three, four thousand. [Hindi] pure cows five thousand rupees.
Dr. Patel: They have brought some Holland bulls and Jersey cows and then Indian bulls, and brought some genetic researchers brought out a new hybrid.
Indian man: It is very good cow, very good. Giving thirty to forty liters per day.
Hari-śauri: Those cows we have in the Pennsylvania farm, the two best ones, they're the two best pedigree cows in the whole of America. They have their pedigree traced back two hundred and fifty years to when the first cows came to America. Purebreds.
Prabhupāda: In our Philadelphia farm we are selling fifteen hundred dollars' extra milk. Fifteen hundred dollars per month. So if cow is properly protected, it can supply immense milk.
Dr. Patel: It was Mr. Nehru, he said that we cannot prohibit cow slaughter. Therefore he made so many wrong things. [break] [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Next birth...
Dr. Patel: We don't know.
Prabhupāda: This is māyā. We are...
Dr. Patel: We are praying to end rebirths by kṛṣṇa-bhakti, and so there is no question of rebirth if we do it sincerely, and it is for the parama-bhakta...
Prabhupāda: Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti... [Bg. 4.9].
Dr. Patel: Mām eti so'rjuna.
Prabhupāda: That is perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gītā, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?
Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macaulay's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "Everything Indian is bad."
Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.
Dr. Patel: Our differential, or [Hindi] has created all this rot.
Prabhupāda: It is not our; it is human society's.
Dr. Patel: [Hindi] We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.
Prabhupāda: Because we have no..., that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. That there is no kṣatriya.
Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system, sir. This so-called democracy is not ours. Consensus... If by consensus...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is śūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "cracy," śūdra will be on the power. So they can...
Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the śūdras will rule according to the...
Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammer man. [break] In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.
Dr. Patel: No mathematics?
Prabhupāda: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students. Nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literature.
Dr. Patel: Here also the same thing. Nobody takes. And Sanskrit practically nil.
Prabhupāda: And philosophy class, closed. Here I think also. Nobody... They think, "What is the use of speculation?"
Indian man: At Kurukṣetra, one Sanskrit university they are planning.
Prabhupāda: Vedic university. So that is our plan. We have asked government to give us land.
Vāsughoṣa: They had a big article in the Times of India about it.
Prabhupāda: Provided government gives us land. [break] ...in Bombay. [Hindi conversation] Palm trees, within the palm trees, such buildings will not have this advantage. I think in this quarter our this land is the best. This Juhu and Birawallah[?] scheme, this land is the best. Twenty-thousand square yards full of palm trees, and we have made this garden. This advantage is not available by everyone. They divided the property, this side five lakhs and the vacant side nine lakhs. Fourteen lakhs. So anyway, we took both the sides. Taking this side, five lakhs, now this one building is worth five lakhs. There are six buildings. Very high. And we have got six buildings.
Dr. Patel: I put up a foundation of my new house here, it has cost me only foundation up to the plinth sixty thousand. Only twenty-one square feet. Twenty-one hundred square feet. Foundation has cost [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: No, it is very costly. [Hindi]
Dr. Patel = After you come here.
Dr. Patel: I think you should stay here little time. It will have good effect on your [indistinct]. And on your health also.
Prabhupāda: So let us go down. [end]