Bhagavad-gītā 4.24 , New Māyāpur , 1976-08-04
[class is held outside, in garden]
Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [devotees repeat] [leads devotees in chanting]
brahmāgnau brahmaṇā hutam
brahmaiva tena gantavyaṁ
Translation = "A person who is fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is sure to attain the spiritual kingdom because of his full contribution to spiritual activities, in which the consummation is absolute and that which is offered is of the same spiritual nature."
Prabhupāda: Some of you explain.
Prabhupāda: Translation is already there.
Jayāntakṛd: Should we translate in French, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is French Bhagavad-gītā?
Harikeśa: Can we read the purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Harikeśa: Purport = "How activities in Kṛṣṇa consciousness can lead one ultimately to the spiritual goal is described here." [break]
Prabhupāda: So discuss any question.
Yogeśvara: Sometimes we speak of the material energy as being different from the spiritual energy, and other times we speak of all energies being ultimately spiritual. So what is the understanding?
Prabhupāda: [translated in French throughout] Just like the electricity energy is coming from the same source, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Sometimes it is helping to make cooler, and sometimes it is helping to make heater. But cooler and heater are two opposite things. But it is being done by the same energy. How it is being done?
In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. Brahma or Absolute Truth is that from where everything is emanating. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8] = "I am the source of everything." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything is coming from Me." So in another place, to make further clear, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca. Bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.4] = "These eight energies, they are My energy." Aṣṭadhā, eight = earth, water, air fire, sky, mind, intelligence, ego. Bhinnā, separated. Just like I am speaking in the Dictaphone, but after some time, without me, it will speak exactly like this. So I am speaking, but I'm not present there. Similarly, material world means it is being conducted by Kṛṣṇa, but still, Kṛṣṇa, personally, He's not present there. In another place Kṛṣṇa says that,
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
Find out this verse.
Hari-śauri: 9.3. [devotees look for verse]
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's energies present, and Kṛṣṇa is seemingly absent, that is material.
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
"By Me, in My unmanifested form, this entire universe is pervaded. All beings are in Me, but I am not in them."
Prabhupāda: Explain that. [break] So, it is understood, or if there is difficulty, you can question?
Caraṇāmbuja: What does it mean when Kṛṣṇa says "I am not in them"?
Prabhupāda: Huh? "I am not in them" because you cannot see there. Kṛṣṇa is there, but you cannot see Him. You are not advanced. Just like another example. Here is..., the sunlight is here. Everyone experiences. But that does not mean sun is here. It is clear? Sun is here means... Sunshine is here means sun is here. But still, because you are in the sunshine, you cannot say, "Now I've captured the sun." Sunlight is existing in the sun, but sun is not present in the sunshine. Without sun there is no sunshine. That does not mean the sunshine is sun. At same time, you can say the sunshine means sun. This is called acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. In the sunshine you feel the presence of the sun, but if you are able to enter in the sun globe, you can meet the sun-god also. Actually, the sunshine means the rays of the body of the person living in the sun globe.
That is explained in the Brahma-saṁhitā, yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs. 5.40]. On account of Kṛṣṇa's... You have seen Kṛṣṇa's effulgence is coming. That is the source of everything. That expansion of that effulgence is the brahma-jyotir, and in that brahma-jyotir, innumerable spiritual planets, material planets are generated. And in each and every planet there are varieties of presentation. Actually, the origin is the Kṛṣṇa's rays of the body, and the rays of the body's origin is Kṛṣṇa. Any other questions? [break] ...or not?
Viśvambhara: We say that Kṛṣṇa is present within the spiritual, within the heart of the living entity.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere.
Viśvambhara: As a person or as an energy?
Prabhupāda: In His energy. Also person. Person we cannot see with the present eyes, but energy we can feel. Clear this point more and more. So when fully realized, then this verse, that everything is brahma, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma... The advanced devotee, he does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is there is an actual difference between the material energy and the spiritual energy?
Prabhupāda: Yes, difference, there are many differences. The same example, electricity. So many things are working, difference of energy. Even the Dictaphone is working, electricity. By the same energy, electricity. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. He's the origin of everything.
Devotee (3): It is explained in Bhagavad-gītā that one change body during the lifetime, but we see that a black man never becomes white, or that there is a constant, there is something constant in the body though it changes. What is it? How come this is..., change of body, but still we can recognize someone from his youth to his old age.
Prabhupāda: So when you further advance you'll find there is no distinction between black and white. Just like a flower is coming out, there are many colors. So it is coming from the same source. As such there is no such difference, but to make it beautiful there are so many colors. In the sunshine there are seven colors, and from that seven colors, multicolors are coming out, origin the one color white, and then so many colors coming. Is that clear or not?
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, if Kṛṣṇa has created everything and everything is submitted to Kṛṣṇa's will, can we really say what is good or bad?
Prabhupāda: There is no good or bad; it is mental concoction. But on the whole, in the material world means everything bad. Spiritual world everything is good. Material world means absence of spiritual world, that's all. You bring again spiritual world, it is good.
Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, since presently we cannot see Kṛṣṇa as He is as a person, how can we..., how should we meditate on Him?
Yogeśvara: He says now, because we are not yet advanced enough to see Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person directly, how should we meditate upon him?
Prabhupāda: You do not see Kṛṣṇa is in the temple? [laughter] We are worshiping something vague? You have to see Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says. In the present stage... Just like Kṛṣṇa says raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." You see Kṛṣṇa in the taste of the water. That will make you advanced. According to different stages... Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water." So when you drink water, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa = "Oh, this taste is Kṛṣṇa"? Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. When you see the sunshine, moonshine... Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the sunshine, I am the moonshine." So as soon as you see in the morning, sunshine, you see Kṛṣṇa. As soon as you see, at night, moonshine, you see Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu [Bg. 7.8]. Any Vedic mantra is chanted, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ para... [Ṛg Veda 1.22.20], this oṁkāra is Kṛṣṇa. Pauruṣaṁ viṣṇu. And anything extraordinary done by somebody, that is Kṛṣṇa. So you have to see Kṛṣṇa in this way, then gradually you'll see = Kṛṣṇa will reveal Himself. You'll see. But there is no difference between realizing the taste of water as Kṛṣṇa and seeing Kṛṣṇa personally. There is no difference. So according to your present position, you'll see Kṛṣṇa in that way. Then you will gradually see Him. If you want to see immediately Kṛṣṇa's rāsa-līlā, that is not possible. You have to see Kṛṣṇa. As soon as there is heat, you have to know that there is fire. As soon as there is smoke, you have to know there is fire. Even though you do not see directly fire, but we can understand, because the smoke is there, there must be fire. So in this way, in the beginning, you have to realize Kṛṣṇa. You have studied in the Seventh Chapter... Find out = raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu... [Bg. 7.8].
Jayatīrtha: 7.8. "O son of Kunti, Arjuna, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable oṁ in the Vedic mantras. I am the sound in ether and ability in man."
Prabhupāda: So this way see Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? Eh? Who asked this question? So where is the difficulty to see Kṛṣṇa? Is there any difficulty? See Kṛṣṇa. And man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Kṛṣṇa says, "Always think of Me." So as soon as you drink water, immediately taste and say, "Ah, here is Kṛṣṇa." Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65]. Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. Everything is given. Hmm? What is the difficulty? [break]
French Devotee: ...think of Krsna? Should we try...
Yogeśvara: He's not finished translating.
Abhinanda: How should we try to remember that Kṛṣṇa is God? [laughter]
Prabhupāda: What do you think of God? [laughter] [Bengali] One has read all the Rāmāyaṇa, and after reading, he is asking, "Sītādevī, whose father she is?" [laughter] "Whose father is Sītādevī?" Your question is like that.
Abhinanda: Because in Māyāpur, last time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you told us that we should not forget that Kṛṣṇa is God. You told it many times.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But why you are forgetting? [laughter] What is this?
Devotee: Prabhupāda, if a devotee falls down from the path of devotional service, is he ever subject to the hells described in the Bhāgavatam?
Caraṇāmbuja: [to Jayāntakṛd] You should translate all these things.
Devotee: Is a devotee ever subject to the punishments of hells if he falls down, as they're given in Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: A devotee never falls down. [laughter] All right.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [end]