Room Conversation , New Māyāpur , 1976-08-02

Hari-śauri: The whole country could be like this if everybody was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Very peacefully you can live. In the city you go, thousands of cars are running---ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror-ror. What is called? Flyway, expressway, downway. Every ten yards stop for the light. [laughter] How artificial life. And with all these things, if people would have been happy, all right. But they're not happy, in spite of all this advancement.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Simply increasing their miseries.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Problems.

Hari-śauri: The bigger the buildings, the more anxiety they're in.

Prabhupāda: Not only many cars, they new construct, new roads, new... Increasing business, in the hope of happiness. But there is no happiness.

Hari-śauri: Happiness is the last consideration.

Prabhupāda: They are thinking that "In this way we shall be happy."

Hari-śauri: Get more money.

Prabhupāda: First of all, paved way, then flyway, then another flyway, then another flyway. In this way. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ [SB 7.5.31].

Hari-śauri: They're always striving for happiness, that's all. They never achieve it, they never get there.

Prabhupāda: No. That is called māyā. Just like the animal is running after the mirage, water, but there is no water.

Hari-śauri: He simply runs until he dies.

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is going on.

Hari-śauri: Dogs on four wheels. [laughs] It was so nice sitting underneath the tree there, chanting. I was thinking this is what we could do forever, twenty-four hours. No need to do anything else.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

[pause]

Prabhupāda: Prospective place, this. Very future prospect.

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes. We're buying these big properties now. We don't have so many devotees, but we know just even in five years they're going to be packed.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Maybe now we don't have so many devotees for all these big places we're buying, but even just in five years or ten years they'll be full up. We'll have to expand more and more. Your idea for fifty percent for books, fifty percent for buildings, it's very wonderful. I remember in Caitanya-caritāmṛta you said that the book distribution and the establishment of temples should go parallel lines, side by side.

Prabhupāda: Going on. Up to date, to my satisfaction, it is going on.

Hari-śauri: If you're satisfied, then we know it's going to be successful.

Prabhupāda: But they fight amongst themselves, the GBCs.

Hari-śauri: Hmm, that's the problem.

Prabhupāda: I did not see Harikeśa.

Hari-śauri: He was there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was there?

Hari-śauri: Yes. He's been feeling a bit ill today.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This is thyme herbs? No. This is the seed.

Hari-śauri: Oh, them. They grow it in the garden. The first, what you got, that was grown here.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Those twigs? They were grown here in the garden.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

[pause]

Hari-śauri: Would you like anything tonight? A piece of Chyavana Prash? [Harikeśa enters]

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Harikeśa: This boy brought this. I wanted to just ask you if this was any good or not. This is nutmeg oil.

Hari-śauri: This is the oil I was telling you about.

Harikeśa: And this is All-Brand..., Axe Brand Universal Oil, supposed to be for massages or something.

Prabhupāda: Chinese?

Harikeśa: [indistinct] This is Chinese.

Hari-śauri: It's got different..., says menthol crystal, peppermint oil, eucalyptol oil, menthol salicilate, oil of lavender, chloroform BP, camphor powder and white oil.

Prabhupāda: What is for?

Harikeśa: Supposed to be for massaging.

Hari-śauri: It's supposed to help the muscles.

Prabhupāda: And what is this?

Harikeśa: It's got the cap on it.

Hari-śauri: Nutmeg oil. This is the one I was telling you about.

Harikeśa: Take the cap off.

Prabhupāda: They're all selling all this?

Hari-śauri: No, this is not ours.

Harikeśa: Rādhe-Śyāma dāsa brought this.

Hari-śauri: It was brought by one of the devotees from... Thailand, was it?

Harikeśa: He was in Kuala-Lumpur.

Hari-śauri: He says he bought it from a Buddhist temple, big Buddhist temple.

Prabhupāda: Kuala-Lumpur? There is a big Buddhist temple I know, I went there.

Harikeśa: He said in a letter, he just wrote a little letter to you, that... You laid a cornerstone on some temple? About three, four years ago?

Prabhupāda: Kuala-Lumpur? Yes.

Harikeśa: It's finished. It cost a million dollars. And he says this man wants to give it to us.

Prabhupāda: Oh, something, that gentleman...

Harikeśa: It's a rather nice letter.

Prabhupāda: Written by him?

Harikeśa: No, this boy who was there. I'll bring him tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: So we can take it. Yes. This is nice idea he has got. He has spent millions of dollars?

Harikeśa: One million on the temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh? How he got the money?

Harikeśa: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Maybe he was rich man.

Hari-śauri: This was made in Penang.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Penang.

Prabhupāda: Penang?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Penang also I visited. I stayed with one Indian gentleman. His wife made very nice kachorī.

Hari-śauri: It doesn't matter wherever you go around the world...

Prabhupāda: They asked, "What you want to eat?" "If you can, you make first-class kachorī." That is from my childhood. My friends also did it. They'd make the first-class kachorīs in my youthhood. I am fond of kachorī. Kachorī is made first class in Mathurā, Agra and Mathurā. Very, very nice. The kachorī is being made, hundreds of customers waiting. At shops, there was many shops, waiting for purchasing. And as soon as it comes out of the pan, immediately sold. There is no question of waiting. They make so spices. That is India's craftmanship. Nobody will starve. If you have no business, he'll prepare something palatable and people will purchase, all over India.

Hari-śauri: There's so many people on the railway station selling.

Prabhupāda: There's no question of starvation for want of money. Anywhere sit down and do something palatable, and people will purchase. So your livelihood will go on. Pakorā, kachorī, jalebī, anything. You make some palatable, people are fond of eating some palatable things. That is their hobby. In Allahabad, there was a brāhmaṇa. I had my business, and he was neighborhood, he was living. So in the morning, the husband and wife would go to take bath in the Ganges. They would very nicely take bath, and while coming they will purchase some ingredients and then come home. The husband will perform pūjā, etcetera, and the wife will prepare many nice preparations---barā, pakorī, puskar[?], this, that. Then he'll take his meals, rest awhile, and in the evening he will sit down---he was sitting just in front of my shop---about four or five o'clock. All the preparations his wife had made whole day, and the small shop. And the university students will come up to night. Ten o'clock, he'll finish. Nothing will remain. Everything will be... And he'll make at least ten rupees' profit, minimum. In those days, 1925, in those days ten rupees means nowadays quite..., at least fifty rupees. So, and living very happily. Living humbly as a brāhmaṇa, he was having his pūjā, going to the Ganges, taking bath, husband and wife, in the morning, and the wife's business is to prepare and his business was to sell. So they'll make at least ten, fifteen rupees' profit daily, very prosperous, living peacefully, husband and wife. There are many such family. The... If wife is very good, then his home is very nice. They cannot be unhappy at any circumstances. Dampatyoḥ kalaho nāsti tatra śrīḥ svayam āgataḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. When there is full agreement between husband and wife, cooperation, then the goddess of fortune comes there without application. You haven't got to ask goddess of fortune, "Please come and help me." She'll come automatically. This is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction.

There are so many things in India culture for becoming happy and advancing towards the goal of life. Now I am appreciating for more and more, seeing the whole world, what is India's culture. Formerly I was thinking, "It is custom. To become faithful wife, this is custom." But when I come outside I see what is wife and what is faithful wife. In India, still, in the village, even there is fight between husband, wife, the wife is faithful. Still. Completely dependent on husband. The husband also, in spite of fighting, he is always careful that the wife does not get any inconvenience. It was the culture; now it is breaking. [about door or window:] You can close that. In material world, for peaceful life there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. [aside:] Inside also do. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peacefully. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady advertised. You remember it?

Hari-śauri: I wasn't there that time.

Harikeśa: I remember.

Prabhupāda: You were there, yes. Is that life? How they can be happy if this is the condition?

[pause]

Prabhupāda: So what further advancement?

Harikeśa: In reference?

Hari-śauri: Tehran.

Harikeśa: Oh, your tickets are definitely booked on the nonstop flight. I finally managed to...

Prabhupāda: ...take the ticket. Oh, we have got ticket.

Harikeśa: The reservation, I mean... And if for some reason we can't get on that flight, we have reservations on another flight that arrives at..., arrives four hours later.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.

Harikeśa: It changes. It leaves earlier and gets there four hours later. Was lunch all right today? Lunch? Your lunch was all right?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: Was lunch all right? Prasādam?

Prabhupāda: The potatoes and karelā, it should be fried.

Harikeśa: Yes, it was fried. I fried it with the cover on.

Prabhupāda: No, not in the beginning. Fry it, and if it is still hard, then...

Harikeśa: Then put the cover on. Oh, all right.

Prabhupāda: Yes, not from beginning.

Harikeśa: Oh, I made a mistake.

Prabhupāda: If you cover from the beginning, the water which is already there, they will be coming out. And the idea is the water should be taken away. Then it will be tasteful. Still, it was good.

Harikeśa: Should I cook if I still have this fever tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: Right now I have a fever.

Prabhupāda: No, don't cook.

Harikeśa: So if I have a fever I shouldn't cook for you? It's unhealthy for you, or...?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: It won't bother me so much, but if it's unhealthy for you...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I have no objection. But if you have got fever, why shall you? There are so many others. They can cook.

Harikeśa: I cannot tolerate being sick any more.

Prabhupāda: The body means sickness. The body itself is sickness.

Harikeśa: In illusion I think I come back here, I get healthy. In illusion I think if I leave India and come here I will get healthy. But I come here, I also get sick. I go there, I also get sick. [laughs] You seem to be much better now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, little better.

[pause] [devotees leave]

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...thinking of how to utilize the whole land. The situation is very good, good prospect. I want that self-independent here, as far as possible. But you have got enough materials. With woods you can make cottages. Then land becomes clear, then utilize it.

Bhagavān: Cows.

Prabhupāda: Cows, so many things. Free from all anxieties, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Life is meant for simply chanting. This should be the motto. But because we have got this body, we have to maintain it. That much. Otherwise, we have no ambition to become a very big man in this material world, enjoy it. This is all false, useless. He'll become a big man, and one day death comes and kicks him out. Just see. So these are all false attempts. It has no meaning. The meaningful life is, so long we live, become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. And tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti [Bg. 4.9]. That is wanted. Give facility to the people. Here is very nice arrangement. Now make plan how to utilize. You have got enough land. You can utilize for supplying the necessities of life.

Bhagavān: Yes. It's a very wonderful place.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We can get many wonderful places like this all over the world. But they have not been taught how to utilize them.

Bhagavān: I think in one year they have done nicely. They have built a greenhouse and planted all the cultivated land.

Prabhupāda: No, they are working hard, there is no doubt about it.

Bhagavān: And the temple also, Deity worship and everything.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Things are going nicely. There is no doubt about it. And children should be given that much education---to read and write and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhagavān: The devotees are talking how nice it was to sit outside with you and chant and hear you speak tonight. I remember the last time I was in New Vrindavan many years ago, when I first became a devotee. You were sitting outside, giving some lecture, series of lectures on Vyāsadeva and the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I like this life, from my very childhood. And on our roof there were trees, er, plants, flower plants, and... My grandmother, she... We, all grandchildren used to water it. So downstairs we took water in, what is called? A jhāri?

Bhagavān: Sprinkling can?

Prabhupāda: Ah, sprinkling can. We all grandchildren, we were about half a dozen. So we took very much pleasure in watering. But my special tendency was that along with the plants, I, with the bushes, I'll sit down. My tendency. And I'll sit down for hours. I liked that, in my childhood. In my maternal uncle's house also, I was doing that. As soon as I find some bush, I make a sitting place.

Bhagavān: It's hard to see how people could not be attracted to such a nice life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: And more and more people are coming.

Prabhupāda: They'll come. First of all, this life is not for every man. Most fortunate man. Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Kona. Kona means someone; it is not for everyone. Kona bhāgyavān. Find out this verse, Nineteenth Chapter, Madhya-līlā.

Bhagavān: [devotees look for verse] Brahmāṇḍa bhramite?

Prabhupāda: Brahmāṇḍa bhramite. Guru-kṛṣṇa. Find out. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā pāya.

Hari-śauri: Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri:

"According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. By the mercy of both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not for everyone.

Hari-śauri: There's a nice purport. Should I do the purport? "When we speak of brahmāṇḍa, we refer to the whole universe, or to the cluster of many millions of universes. In all universes, there are innumerable planets and innumerable living entities upon those planets in the air and in the water. There are millions and trillions of living entities everywhere, and they are engaged by māyā in suffering and enjoying the results of their fruitive activity life after life. This is the position of the materially conditioned living entities. Out of many of these living entities, if one is actually fortunate [bhāgyavān], he comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and if one desires something, Kṛṣṇa fulfills one's desire. If the living entity by chance or fortune comes in contact with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and wishes to associate with that movement, Kṛṣṇa, who is situated in everyone's heart, gives him the chance to meet a bona fide spiritual master. This is called guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to bestow His mercy upon all living entities, and as soon as a living entity desires the Lord's mercy, the Lord immediately gives him an opportunity to meet a bona fide spiritual master. Such a person is fortified by both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. He is helped from within by Kṛṣṇa and from without by the spiritual master. Both are prepared to help the sincere living being become free from this material bondage.

How one can become this fortunate can be seen in the life of Nārada Muni. In his previous life he was born of a maidservant. Although he was not born into a prestigious position, his mother was fortunately engaged in rendering service to some Vaiṣṇavas. When these Vaiṣṇavas were resting during the cāturmāsya period, the boy Nārada took the opportunity to engage in their service. Taking compassion upon the boy, the Vaiṣṇavas offered him the remnants of their food. By serving them and obeying their orders, the boy became the object of sympathy for the Vaiṣṇavas, and, by the Vaiṣṇavas' unknown mercy, he gradually became a pure devotee. In the next life he was Nārada Muni, the most exalted of Vaiṣṇavas and the most important guru and ācārya of Vaiṣṇavas. Following in the footsteps of Nārada Muni, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is rendering service to humanity by giving everyone a chance to come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. If one is fortunate, he becomes intimately related with this movement. Then, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, one's life becomes successful. Everyone has dormant kṛṣṇa-bhakti, love for Kṛṣṇa, and in the association of good devotees that love is revealed. As stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta:

Dormant devotional service to Kṛṣṇa is within everyone. Simply by associating with devotees, hearing their good instructions and chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dormant love for Kṛṣṇa is awakened. In this way one acquires the seed of devotional service. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja [Cc. Madhya 19.151]."

Prabhupāda: Then? Then? No, it is not finished?

Hari-śauri: No, this is finished.

Prabhupāda: Next verse?

Hari-śauri:

"When a person receives the seed of devotional service, he should take care of it by becoming a gardener and sowing the seed in his heart. If he waters the seed gradually by the process of śravaṇa and kīrtana [hearing and chanting], the seed will begin to sprout."

Purport = "To live with devotees or to live in a temple means to associate with the śravaṇa-kīrtana process. Sometimes neophyte devotees think that they can continue the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity, but the execution of śravaṇa-kīrtana is meant for highly developed devotees like Haridāsa Ṭhākura, who engaged in the śravaṇa-kīrtana process without worshiping the Deity. However, one should not falsely imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura and abandon Deity worship just to try to engage in śravaṇa-kīrtana. This is not possible for neophyte devotees.

The word guru-prasāda indicates that the spiritual master is very merciful in bestowing the boon of devotional service upon the disciple. That is the best possible gift the spiritual master has to offer. Those with a background of pious life are eligible to receive life's supreme benefit, and to bestow this benefit, the Supreme Personality of Godhead sends His representative to impart His mercy. Endowed with the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the spiritual master distributes the mercy to those who are elevated and pious. Thus the spiritual master trains his disciples to render devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is called gurukṛpā. It is kṛṣṇa-prasāda, Kṛṣṇa's mercy, that He sends a bona fide spiritual master to the deserving disciple. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa, one meets the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of the spiritual master, the disciple is fully trained in the devotional service of the Lord.

Bhakti-latā-bīja means 'the seed of devotional service.' Everything has an original cause, or seed. For any idea, program, plan or device, there is first of all the contemplation of the plan, and that is called bīja, or the seed. The methods, rules and regulations by which one is perfectly trained in devotional service constitute the bhakti-latā-bīja, or the seed of devotional service. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received from the spiritual master by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. Other seeds are called anyābhilāṣa-bīja, karma-bīja and jñāna-bīja. If one is not fortunate enough to receive the bhakti-latā-bīja from the spiritual master, he instead cultivates the seeds of karma-bīja, jñāna-bīja or political and social or philanthropic bīja. However, bhakti-latā-bīja is different from these other bījas. Bhakti-latā-bīja can be received only through the mercy of the spiritual master. Therefore one has to satisfy the spiritual master to get bhakti-latā-bīja [yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ].

Bhakti-latā-bīja is the origin of devotional service. Unless one satisfies the spiritual master, he gets the bīja, or root cause, of karma, jñāna and yoga without the benefit of devotional service. However, one who is faithful to his spiritual master gets the bhakti-latā-bīja. This bhakti-latā-bīja is received when one is initiated by the bona fide spiritual master. After receiving the spiritual master's mercy, one must repeat his instructions, and this is called śravaṇa-kīrtana---hearing and chanting. One who has not properly heard from the spiritual master or who does not follow the regulative principles is not fit for chanting [kīrtana]. This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā = vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru-nandana [Bg. 2.41]. One who has not listened carefully to the instructions of the spiritual master is unfit to chant or preach the cult of devotional service. One has to water the bhakti-latā-bīja after receiving instructions from the spiritual master."

I remember in Hawaii, this section here, it says a person is fortified by both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master, and you said that Kṛṣṇa gives you the weapon and the spiritual master sharpens it, the weapon of knowledge, and in that way we can cut free from material bondage.

Prabhupāda: The classes should be regularly held. Those who are engaged in the field work, then let them work, but woman or others, they should hear in the class. They should attend.

Bhagavān: There is regular class for everyone in the afternoon, after prasādam.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. [kīrtana heard from downstairs] What they are saying now?

Bhagavān: Downstairs? "Haribol." People cannot understand how just by chanting enthusiastic kīrtana so many problems can be solved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What they understand, all rascals? Wasting time. Going to the moon planet, going to the Mars planet. Why? What you will gain? Still they are going. Simply spending money. In Bengal it is called ostrādi. Ostrādi, in English? One who places himself as very intelligent leader. What is called in one word?

Bhagavān: Presumptuous?

Prabhupāda: Presumptuous?

Bhagavān: Presumes he's something that he's...

Prabhupāda: No, it is a very nice word.

Hari-śauri: An imposter?

Prabhupāda: Imposter is falsely. It is not exactly falsely. Beginning with "p." [Hari-śauri looking in dictionary] Do you find there teacher? Teachers, other things?

Hari-śauri: Teacher?

Prabhupāda: Teacher, and other synonyms. Find out the teacher. They have got so many synonyms.

Hari-śauri: Teacher = "Educator, instructor, preceptor, master, tutor, coach, schoolmaster, schoolmistress, schoolmarm, [sic:] predagogue."

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue, yes, this word.

Hari-śauri: Pedagogy... How do you pronounce this word?

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Pedagogue. Pedagogue.

Prabhupāda: This word, now you see what is the pedagogue in dictionary. Pedigree. Pedagogue---pedagogue or predagogue?

Hari-śauri: Pedagogue. Here we are. "Pedagogue = schoolmaster, teacher." That's all it gives. "Pedagogy = science of teaching."

Bhagavān: "Implying pedagy." Look up pedagy. "Implying pedagy." It says, "Usually derogatory."

Hari-śauri: Oh, "Pedant = one who overrates or parades book-learning or technical knowledge or insists on strict adherence to formal rules. One always possessed by theory doctrinaire."

Prabhupāda: Yes, this word.

Hari-śauri: Pedant.

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue?

Bhagavān: Pedagogue is the first, yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the spelling?

Hari-śauri: P-e-d-a-g-o-g-u-e.

Prabhupāda: Peda. Peda. P-e-d-a.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. P-e-d-a-g-o-g-u-e. Pedagogue.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Pedagogue. Not pedi, but peda.

Hari-śauri: Pedagogue.

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So they are going on, pedagogue.

Hari-śauri: And the other one is pedant. Pedant = "One who overrates or parades book-learning."

Prabhupāda: Pedantry, there is a word. Our Harikeśa was speaking that if they do not say there is life in Mars, then their whole propaganda will fail.

Hari-śauri: Yes, I was saying that this morning.

Prabhupāda: This time, if they say that there is no life in the Mars, they'll never get next chance, he said. I think it is meaningful.

Bhagavān: It will substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: No, our claim intelligent. They are loitering. Our claim is that they do not know anything about that. All foolish propaganda. But their position is that unless they say that there is life, then their this false propaganda will no longer run on. We are certain that they cannot go there, neither is it possible to understand what is there. Simply imagination. We do not give any credit. [coughs heavily]

[pause]

Hari-śauri: You said you had some plan? For the land here? When we came in, you were saying you had some plan for the land.

Prabhupāda: Plan is that we have got woods. Cut the woods, make small cottages, and engage them for growing fruits, flowers, grains, and make the complete arrangement nicely. Water...

Hari-śauri: Irrigation.

Prabhupāda: In this way make it evergreen.

Bhagavān: There was a question about the cows, that at what point should the calf be separated from the mother. Because sometimes when the calf is separated, the mother, she cries.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why separation? They should be given chance to drink milk.

Bhagavān: But isn't there a point?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhagavān = There is a point when the calf is taken away from the mother?

Prabhupāda: No, they should not be taken away.

Bhagavān: Shouldn't be.

Hari-śauri: I think in all our farms they do that.

Bhagavān: I heard in New Vrindavan they took them away very early.

Hari-śauri: The problem is that the calves drink so much milk that they become very sick, so they have to separate.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they should not be allowed always. Once in a day, that's all.

Hari-śauri: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Not too much allowed, but once. At least when milking they should be allowed to drink little milk, and that will encourage the mother to deliver more milk.

Hari-śauri: Oh. At the same time they're milking the cow, the calf can come.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They can bring it, milk. And while milking, the calf may be standing before the mother.

Hari-śauri: They do that in India.

Prabhupāda: So she will not be sorry.

Bhagavān: That's nice.

Prabhupāda: Completely separation is not good. And after birth, at least for one week the calf should be allowed. Because after this giving birth, the milk is not fit for human consumption. The calf should not be allowed to eat more, but at the same time the mother must see once, twice. Then it will be all right. Of course, we are born in big, big towns; we do not know. But I know this is the process. In Allahabad I was keeping cow. There was facility.

Bhagavān: I don't think our farms are doing like that. In New Vrindavan they do?

Hari-śauri: What, letting the calves come? I don't think so. You can write a letter to them. The whole system's so perfect. It's completely satisfying in every respect.

Prabhupāda: And if you make others dissatisfied for your pleasure, that is sinful. You should act in such a way that nobody is dissatisfied. Then there is balance.

Hari-śauri: Expert management.

Prabhupāda: You have got puffed rice?

Hari-śauri: They may have some in the kitchen. I can check. They have flat rice.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Puffed rice. This Chyavana Prash, it says five to ten grams every morning with milk.

Prabhupāda: With milk. Five to ten grams.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's like a spoonful. That's like a heaped spoonful. I think that's about what you're getting there.

Prabhupāda: What we take, that is five to ten grams?

Hari-śauri: Approximately. Maybe a little more.

Prabhupāda: How much milk it is?

Hari-śauri: Doesn't say, it just says with milk. So according to taste. Do you like to take...

Prabhupāda: So in the morning.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Hari-śauri: I'll go and find out about this...

Prabhupāda: Puffed rice. [break]

Bhagavān: [background discussion with devotees] Where is your husband? [devotees brings in vegetables] Zucchini?

Hari-śauri: This is zucchini? This?

Bhagavān: Yes. We should show Prabhupāda each thing that we're doing. [break]

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Hari-śauri: Everything's grown on the farm, he said.

Devotee (1): These are flowers which decorate the vases. They are very tall. They put in the vases every day on the altar, Kṛṣṇa. And this morning... You have been there? Taking garlands made out of this. It smells very nice. And that's the carnation. It was the one I gave you yesterday on your walk. It has a very nice scent.

Prabhupāda: No, you have got this cucumber?

Devotee (1): Yes, there is cucumber.

Prabhupāda: So if fresh, why not eat?

Hari-śauri: We have fresh cucumber every day.

Prabhupāda: But when I take it, it does not appear to be fresh.

Devotee (1): These are bulk cucumbers.

Devotee (2): This is fresh cucumber from the garden.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): Tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: The cucumber which is supplied to me, that is not fresh.

Devotee (1): It is from the market. We were not aware that they had cucumber in the garden, because I asked...

Prabhupāda: You are not aware? Why not?

Devotee (1): I was not aware.

Hari-śauri: He's our supplier.

Prabhupāda: At least one cucumber, and this chili, you can make a nice salad. You say that there's no peas?

Hari-śauri: There's no peas in the garden.

Devotee (1): They are just ready actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They're just ready for picking now.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (1): Beans you have had every day from the garden.

Hari-śauri: Beans are very stringy.

Devotee (1): Grapes.

Prabhupāda: Oh, so many fresh things.

Devotee (1): From the greenhouse they are, actually.

Hari-śauri: What is this?

Devotee (1): That is zucchini, only very small. [laughter] We let them get big to feed so many devotees. [laughter]

Prabhupāda: Very nice, very fresh. So many things can be done.

Hari-śauri: This is zucchini?

Devotee (1): This is the same thing.

Devotee (2): They call it marrow.

Prabhupāda: This called, this is... I do not know what you call. It is called komura.[?] It is very nice.

Hari-śauri: We used to call them marrows. Zucchinis are small.

Devotee (1): Tomato. It's an Italian type of tomato, and there's another one.

Prabhupāda: This is apple?

Devotee (1): Yes, that's for cooking.

Hari-śauri: Cabbage.

Devotee (1): Pears.

Bhagavān: They're growing chickpeas.

Devotee (1): Oh, chickpeas also, yes.

Bhagavān: They're not ripe yet.

Devotee (1): You can see inside, inside the pod, one chickpea. They have to go yellow on the plant, and then we pick them and then put them in sacks for the winter.

Bhagavān: We have a whole field planted of chickpea. They're very expensive here, so it's nice.

Prabhupāda: So you have got immediately some pods?

Devotee (1): And also you have been taking the fresh coriander, dhaniya.

Prabhupāda: Oh, nice. So, this pod?

Devotee (1): Peas, beans.

Prabhupāda: You have got some?

Devotee (1): Yes, plenty, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotee (2): For tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: Bring all them. [laughter]

Hari-śauri: He supplies us every day. What's this?

Woman devotee: This is lemon spinach.

Devotee (1): A type of sour spinach. Tasty.

Bhagavān: Tastes like a lemon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [tries it?] Very good.

Bhagavān: Anything else hidden in here? This is our apple?

Devotee (1): Yes. They are our apples from the garden.

Woman devotee: Sweet peas.

Devotee (1): There's many varieties of flowers for the garlands and the vases, for almost the next two months.

Prabhupāda: Grow more, more, all these fruits, flowers.

Bhagavān: This is from ours?

Woman devotee: Yes.

Devotee (1): Rose. We are growing 2,500... [break]

Prabhupāda: Go and live happily. This is a...

Devotee (1): Pear.

Devotee (2): It's not yet ripe.

Prabhupāda: You have got puffed rice?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So bring some this pod.

Devotee (1): Tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: I shall, with puffed rice, I shall take this.

Hari-śauri: How do you want them cooking?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll tell you. Let them bring.

Hari-śauri: Bring some now? [laughter]

Bhagavān: Glories to Prabhupāda. [devotees offer obeisances]

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] Give Mandākinī these peas. She'll...

Hari-śauri: Now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. She can... Tomorrow she can utilize it for kachorī. I've asked her to make kachorī. Let them use this.

Hari-śauri: They must have only just come ripe just this last week.

Prabhupāda: So many things are growing. Puffed rice, you simply make it hot, dry, take it away, and then take some of the peas, put very little ghee and masālā and some peas, fry it nicely. Then put little water and cover it. When it is soft, you can add with it little these green chilis.

Hari-śauri: These big ones?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not very much, but little.

Hari-śauri: These are not very hot, the big ones. The small ones are the hot ones, but we don't have any of those left.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Hari-śauri: And then mix them, or keep them separate?

Prabhupāda: No, keep separately. They should be very soft. And the puffed rice, hot. Then mix with little ghee and masālā. Then, I'll take little.

Hari-śauri: Jaya. [end]