Morning Walk , New York , 1976-07-20

[in car]

Prabhupāda: Mind's business is restlessness. Where is surprising? Therefore we have to fix up our mind on the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there is no way. It is very restless. That is the nature. The yogīs, they try to control the mind by mechanical process---dhyāna, dhāraṇā, āsana, prāṇāyāma. [break] Cigarette is, I think, advertised, "Nobody is lower than me." That means no other cigarette is lower in poisonous effect. In a different way it is advertised. "Nobody is lower than me." Humble.

Hṛdayānanda: Who is that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Cigarette is full of poison. It is being advertised, "Nobody is lower than me."

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, yes, the tar content.

Prabhupāda: That means "I am first, I am first class." Less poison. "Nobody contains lower poison than me." [break] ...city, when it was constructed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of the buildings are from the early 1800s, 1850. Like the Museum of Natural History that we visited, that was 1869. It was settled even earlier than that.

Hṛdayānanda: It was always a very important city. For almost two or three hundred years it's been a very important city for trade, business, commerce.

Prabhupāda: When they first settled?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the 1600s.

Ādi-keśava: It was settled by the Dutch in the 1600s. That's three hundred years ago.

Hṛdayānanda: Called New Amsterdam.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some Indians were living here on this island, and the Dutch people, they bribed them or traded it for about thirty dollars' worth of jewels and trinkets.

Hṛdayānanda: The Dutch were defeated by the British, and the British took New York.

Prabhupāda: Yo jaya maluk taya [?] = "Might is right." [break] ...right is going on now also, but under some plea, United Nation. Where is unity? [break] Broadway? Sometimes I stayed in this house. Eighty-seventh Street? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is not Eighty-seventh, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tripurāri: Seventy-second and Amsterdam. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...station like this.

Passerby: Bless your heart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow, he said "Bless your heart."

Passerby: What's the scoop?

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa? How about Christ Jesus?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How about Hare Kṛṣṇa as father?

Passerby: Father? His father? 'Fraid not, fella. You'll meet your father.

Prabhupāda: Drunkard? No.

Hṛdayānanda: Crazy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fanatic.

Prabhupāda: This is Amsterdam? Cross street? No.

Devotee: Seventy-fifth Street.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, this is Amsterdam.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere I see that poster.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa, he was doing that for about three weeks in a row.

Ādi-keśava: All night long.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would go out all night long for about three weeks, putting those posters up everywhere.

Hṛdayānanda: This is... Tamāla, this is an older section? These buildings?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, not that old. These buildings were built in the '30s, '40s.

Prabhupāda: We are going to the Riverside?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Riverside Park. Would have been faster, wouldn't it, to go down on Westside Drive? [break]

Prabhupāda: I was coming here daily for cooking my food.

Hṛdayānanda: Purchasing food?

Prabhupāda: Cooking.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the park, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: At one Dr. Mishra's house. In my apartment there was no kitchen. [break] [walking] There was some news. Their machine has gone to Mars planet.

Hari-śauri: Machine is...?

Prabhupāda: They sent some machine?

Hari-śauri: To Mars?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To picture, to take pictures around the Mars, to take pictures, and they have found on Mars signs of life and water. They have taken many close pictures.

Hari-śauri: Of Arizona.

Prabhupāda: No, they know that this time if they say there is no life, then there is no interest. This time another falsehood.

Hari-śauri: Maybe some life this time.

Prabhupāda: Some new falsehood.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: All the things that they have found has put doubt of their previous discoveries. They have put... They say this themselves, that it has revolutionized all their knowledge by some pictures they have now. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...the solid stone, and still, life is coming, and they say there is no life. [break] In the moon planet there is sand, but wherefrom the sand came? Without water, where is the experience of sand?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Sand, yes.

Prabhupāda: Sand. We get sand from the water. So unless there was water, how there is sand? Who will answer this?

Jagadīśa: Desert. Like the desert.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there was water. There was water. You cannot say that sand has come automatically. It comes from... What is that sand? It's soda-silicate. The water is soda, full of soda, and from that, sand comes. You are chemist. You know soda silicate?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Excuse me?

Prabhupāda: You know soda silicate?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Silicate, sand.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Brahma-tīrtha Prabhu, Bob Cohen, is a geologist. He just got initiated yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Oh, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's the Peace Corps devotee from India? He is a scientist in the field of geology, studies the earth and how these formations come, and he's working with the scientists to prove their misunderstandings, their false claims.

Prabhupāda: Now, without water there cannot be sand.

Hari-śauri: So early in the moon's history, when it was first formed, when there was gaseous clouds, then there was the water in the atmosphere...

Prabhupāda: There was water?

Hari-śauri: ...but then, due to the atmosphere being dry, not being any atmosphere, now it's just rocks and dust.

Prabhupāda: Why the atmosphere changed? There was water? Why the atmosphere changed? [break] ...is water, there must be vegetation. So where those vegetation gone? All false propaganda. Even in the sea you'll find seaweeds. Is it not? So as soon as there is water, there must be vegetation. And without water, sand does not come. If there is sand, there is water, there is vegetation.

Hari-śauri: So if there was originally an atmosphere, why is it not there now?

Prabhupāda: These are all rascal, "atmosphere." What atmosphere? Whole world is made of these material elements. Why the atmosphere should be different? Maybe more or less; that is another thing. Just like in the Western country it is very cool and the Eastern country it is hot. But that does not mean everything is changed.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: On this planet we have certain elements, like iron, water or sand. Could there be other elements on other planets, other new elements?

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Same elements.

Prabhupāda: More or less. Just like in the heavenly planets it is said that the roads are paved with pearls. So there is more pearl. Here is also. The pearl quantity is there. Therefore they pave on the [indistinct] road.

Hari-śauri: You told us, in Hawaii, they had emeralds as big as huge boulders.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Yes, big rocks, like this, when we were walking in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: And the beaches are made of gems.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the difficulty? This is also stone; that is also stone. That is valuable stone, that's all---valuable in your eye.

Gurudāsa: So kalpa-vṛkṣa is the topmost, and this is perverted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: So the moon planet is said to be high planet, but sand is not as nice as vegetation. How is that?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gurudāsa: The moon planet is said to be higher planet, but sand is not...

Prabhupāda: No, no, they say that moon planet, there is sand. They have brought sand. I say, "Wherefrom the sand came unless there is water?"

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Devotee (1): Came from Arizona. [laughter]

Hari-śauri: Actually, when they brought that dust, they said they brought that dust back, they made the point that it's just like the dust here. That's the same things again. You pointed out, "Why they are mentioning Arizona when they're talking about Mars?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: That means they've never been past Arizona.

Prabhupāda: All business is going on in Arizona.

Gurudāsa: You once said there is a gross and subtle part of the moon planet. Is that so? No.

Prabhupāda: No.

Gurudāsa: You said one who had qualification could get to the actual moon planet.

Prabhupāda: Moon is one. There are not so many moons. Moon is one. You can go to the moon. By ritualistic ceremony you can get there ten thousands of years life and enjoy. That is the heavenly planet.

Gurudāsa: So they have not at all gone there.

Prabhupāda: All false propaganda.

Hari-śauri: I think we can go back now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]

Prabhupāda: Planet is full of life. Jana-kīrṇa. All kinds of animals are there.

Jagadīśa: Even in the Arizona desert there are different kinds of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be. [break] ...use of going to the Mars planet? What is their idea?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They constantly want to discover more and more so that they can claim that they are lords.

Prabhupāda: But what is that discovery?

Rādhā-vallabha: Scientific knowledge.

Prabhupāda: You simply go and see? That's all?

Jagadīśa: They want to know what's there.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no really purpose, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no valid purpose.

Rādhā-vallabha: They consider it advancement of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is not advancement of...

Gurudāsa: They want to colonize because there is overpopulation on this planet.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Another rascal. [laughter]

Gurudāsa: They want to put the American flag on the moon and say, "It is ours."

Prabhupāda: And then lick up. "Here is American flag." [laughter] And then doglike urine. [laughter] So lick up, then doglike urine. It is useless. [laughter] Dog's business. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they feel they should explore the unknown.

Prabhupāda: That will remain everlastingly unknown. They'll never be able to push. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyaḥ. What is this speed? Even with the speed of mind and air they go many, many millions of years, it will still be unknown. This verse of Brahma-saṁhitā, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'py asti avicintya-tattve [Bs. 5.34]. It is inconceivable. It will never be done. They have some vague idea, "There is no life. There is this. There is that." That's... Real knowledge they'll never get. Real knowledge you'll get from Bhāgavata.

Rādhā-vallabha: They don't even know what is inside the ocean, what to speak of other planets.

Prabhupāda: And if they take photograph of the ocean, what they will understand what is within the ocean? Suppose they have taken photograph of the ocean. Does it mean the full knowledge of ocean?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Only speculation. Only speculation.

Prabhupāda: Simply speculation. They are bluffing, "We have taken photograph." Suppose you have taken photograph. Does it mean that you have known everything? Nonsense.

Hari-śauri: They don't even know all the species of life here, so how will they know which one's there?

Gurudāsa: Just like when a photograph of a person is there, it doesn't mean they know what is inside.

Prabhupāda: But they bluff, "We have taken photograph." And what you have known about it? Simply bluff.

Hari-śauri: The whole thing is so childish, it's...

Rādhā-vallabha: They tried to find the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean, and their submarine snapped in half and they all died. There was too much pressure. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...how life is coming by force? And they say there is no soul.

Hari-śauri: You made the point the other day during massage that even though our building is twelve stories high and it's made of steel and concrete, still, there's small plants growing straight out of the cement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...they do not go to the sun planet. What is the reason?

Tripurāri: They say that no life there.

Prabhupāda: Again life, no life.

Tripurāri: No life. They think it's too hot for life to exist there.

Prabhupāda: So how Kṛṣṇa was there?

Rādhā-vallabha: They don't believe that.

Prabhupāda: So how can I believe you? If you don't believe Kṛṣṇa, shall I have to believe you?

Rādhā-vallabha: They have calculated that as soon as you come within a certain amount, a billion miles of the sun...

Prabhupāda: That is you. That is you, not Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between you and Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Rādhā-vallabha: ...across the river, there was reports from many people that one ship landed from another planet.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: Across the river there were reports from many people that a ship from another planet landed and took soil samples and then left. And everyone reported that saw it, they were very much afraid.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A thief suspects everyone as being a thief. So everybody's afraid because they know that they would attack everybody else. Therefore they think everyone else is in the same mood. They never think of people from other planets as being friendly. They always consider that they will immediately try to kill everyone and conquer, because that's what they would do. That's their business.

Rādhā-vallabha: About thirty or forty years ago a man named Orson Welles did a... He had a radio show, and just as a joke he started giving a news report that the Martians had landed, and people were panicking. They were trying to leave the city in cars in huge numbers.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bali-mardana: Thousands of people started to leave the city in fear. I think it was on April Fools? It was just a joke.

Hari-śauri: We can go down to the right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...difference between śūdra and brāhmaṇa. A śūdra can be misled at any moment. That is stated in... Strī śūdra. Woman and śūdra, on the same class. You can mislead them by high talkings = "Oh, I am coming from Indian prince." They come here, marry some European, and go to India and then engage him [her] for collecting water in bucket. One Muhammadan crewman, a vagabond, he bluffed one girl that "I am coming from Muhammadan prince family." Then she married, and she went to Allahabad, and she was given burqa and she was living in a hut, and then she was bringing water from the street. She wrote a letter to the Viceroy that "This is my position." Then police came and rescued her and sent her. [break]

Gurudāsa: ...Pañca-tantra about a jackal who poses as a king. He has blue dye on, so they think he's special, but when he heard other jackals, all he could do was howl, and he was exposed. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Bali-mardana: He's here, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Now there should be one rule, that unless they are husband-wife, man and woman should not worship together.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: On the altar.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Strictly prohibited.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the same altar.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Different altars is all right, but not the same altar.

Prabhupāda: No, different quarters... They should not go to the...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They should not be brought before the Deities.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Alone.

Hari-śauri: In the kitchen or...

Prabhupāda: Man and woman together should not worship unless they are husband and wife.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Never be alone. So just because they are married to someone else, that is not... They must be married to each other.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they must be together...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Married.

Prabhupāda: ...the man and the woman. The husband-wife can go, not others.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In most temples that is not the system right now.

Prabhupāda: No, that system should be introduced. The husband-wife together can go to worship the Deity. If they are not related as husband, they should not go.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What about a situation like this, where the husband and wife are worshiping but also some other brahmacārīs are also worshiping?

Prabhupāda: Still, that is some protection. The husband is there. The woman means her husband must be there. Which one, our car?

Hari-śauri: He's bringing it. He's bringing it up to this road here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

[break] [in car]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...dogs and cats.

Prabhupāda: Not cows.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Cows are meant for eating, for food. It's all about dogs.

Rāmeśvara: So no woman who is married should work with the Deities unless her husband is right there? What if the husband is a book distributor? [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That walking place?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda will be leaving for the airport tonight.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About six-fifteen at the latest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six, six-fifteen.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes, six o'clock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśa, you have to make arrangements---garlands, flowers, devotees. [background conversation between devotees] [break] ...museum.

Prabhupāda: Which museum?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Museum of Natural History. Three hours we spent there, and we got a big headache.

Prabhupāda: Three hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we got a headache.

Prabhupāda: Seeing only dead bodies?

Rāmeśvara: Dead bodies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stuffed dead bodies.

Rāmeśvara: They have this one display trying to prove that..., the Darwin theory of evolution. They have these bones, and they say this proves how man was formerly like an ape or a monkey; now he has become more civilized.

Prabhupāda: So where is Darwin's bones?

Rāmeśvara: Then they have one display showing...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Darwin got all this knowledge. His bones should be studied first, how he got so much knowledge, and from which monkey he came. By studying the bones, discover it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complete concoction.

Prabhupāda: Ask them to find out from which monkey the Darwin's bone has come. They may discover. Study the bones of Darwin. They are spoiling public money in this way. [break]

Rāmeśvara: ...each display they have some background artwork, very expertly done. Say they have a display of a tiger. They have a painting of the forest in the background, and it's very well done. They spend a lot of money, with lighting systems.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But none of the exhibits are moving. [break]

Rāmeśvara: ...for one display of the different stages of the embryo growing. So to have this display they used actual dead aborted babies. They have them mounted in the display case, the dead babies that they have killed.

Prabhupāda: Killed?

Rāmeśvara: The aborted babies. They have taken their tiny little bodies and put them in a display, so you can see the baby at two months, at four months, at six months, at eight months. Like that.

Prabhupāda: How it is growing.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, the different...

Prabhupāda: No, no, how it is growing? When it was put into the bottle, why it did not grow? It remained as it is.

Rāmeśvara: They say because they severed its connection with the mother.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A nine-month-old baby also?

Prabhupāda: That means the baby has grown from the mother. So mother is life. That is the proof. Otherwise how the baby has grown? You cannot say that life can be grown out of matter.

Rāmeśvara: Life from life.

Prabhupāda: As soon as they say that "It has grown from the mother," the mother is life.

Rāmeśvara: Life from life.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Rāmeśvara: No one thinks like that.

Prabhupāda: They are all rascals; therefore I say. They have no common sense---all rascals, dull. By eating meat they are... They may be like tigers or dogs, but they are not human being. They may have strength of a tiger or barking capacity like the dog, but they are not human being. Useless. They cannot be used for anything human benefit. Useless. We should take them like that, that "You may be a tiger, you may be a lion, you may be a dog, but you are not a human being. We don't accept you." A tiger is very powerful than ordinary human being, but that does not mean that a tiger is useful than the human being. That is not the way. [break] ...I ask, natural answer you gave, "Because it is disconnected with the mother." That is natural answer. Then how you can say the life has come from matter? Immediately you are captured. Can you say like that, that life has come without life? And they are making us believe like that.

Rāmeśvara: The body is matter.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Rāmeśvara: So at a certain stage life enters it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: At a certain stage...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...of development the life enters.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Therefore they say they can abort the baby. They say that...

Prabhupāda: That they do not know, when the soul enters. The soul enters in the first night when pregnancy begins. Otherwise how it will grow? Life begins from that point. It grows one day, two day, three day, five day, one month, three months, like that. But the growing, growth, begins from that very point. If the life has got shelter between the two secretions of father and mother, then it grows.

Rāmeśvara: That is the only explanation.

Prabhupāda: That is the only explanation.

Rāmeśvara: They are very bewildered. They cannot imagine how a cell within the body is growing. They cannot imagine that there is a soul within it. Or a plant from a seed. They can never understand these things. Actually it's a fact. When we studied in biology before we became devotees, they never explained how the tree comes from the seed.

Prabhupāda: The seed creates a favorable situation, and the life comes. On account of the life's presence, it grows, it develops. This is right explanation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes we say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that when the body is useless, then the soul leaves, just like giving up an old pair of clothes. But sometimes we see that someone in very good health, youthful, all of a sudden they give up their body.

Prabhupāda: You are very healthy. Does it mean... Is there any guarantee that you will not die?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, there's no guarantee.

Prabhupāda: That is the life. You may be very stout and strong. The death may take from so many causes. It does not depend on your healthy body.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When you say that we are kicked out, is it literally that we are kicked out of this body?

Prabhupāda: Heh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Are we literally kicked out of this body?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even if one is very attached.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [end]