Morning Walk , New York , 1976-07-18

[in car]

Prabhupāda: ...also in the procession?

Rāmeśvara: This bus is for carrying prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Maybe they should go in the procession, though. That would look impressive, wouldn't it?

Prabhupāda: All our cars behind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. We could have had our twenty-five vans and eight buses.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Decorated, no?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśa Mahārāja, did you hear that? The three buses should go in the procession.

Prabhupāda: Full opulence.

Rāmeśvara: Full opulence.

Prabhupāda: Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What an idea!

Ādi-keśava: The buses are all going down there to take care of the prasādam.

Rāmeśvara: They're carrying the prasādam.

Ādi-keśava: And also to do the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cooking the poppers.

Ādi-keśava: And also do the treasury.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I want three buses together in the...

Prabhupāda: All cars, also.

Rāmeśvara: The cars. [laughs] Some of the cars don't look appropriate. Some of the cars are used cars. They do not look very nice.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Good cars.

Rāmeśvara: The nice-looking cars.

Prabhupāda: Good cars. This car and the other van.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, this car will be there. So that's nice. Three buses, Ādi-keśa. Will you take care of that?

Ādi-keśava: And the nice-looking vans?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did the other two buses arrive?

Ādi-keśava: I know only of the two that are here.

Rāmeśvara: [break] ...were just amazed at the dancing of Lord Caitanya. How Lord Jagannātha would stop His car just to see. It says that Lord Jagannātha is maintaining the whole universe, so who can carry Him? Only by His sweet will for His own pastimes can He be moved. And the cart that moves Him is as tall as Mount Sumeru.

Prabhupāda: Potak...Potamkin..., and what was that in Washington, Potomyer?

Devotees: Potomac.

Rāmeśvara: And you wrote that just like the cart of Jagannātha is compared to Mount Sumeru, similarly, in London they were comparing it to that statue of Lord Nelson.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Nelson's column.

Rāmeśvara: Lord Nelson's column.

Prabhupāda: Rival to Nelson. They published, Guardian.

Rāmeśvara: The Guardian, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Good newspaper.

Prabhupāda: It has become against.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe because...

Prabhupāda: It is political.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe because of that.

Prabhupāda: Only politics. So mean-minded, they have no idea even beyond politics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [japa] Where are the rathas now?

Ādi-keśava: They're starting to pull.

Rāmeśvara: Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's one of them.

Rāmeśvara: The men are getting ready to pull them now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, the tops are down though.

Rāmeśvara: For the wires. They have to be down to move them. Sixty men are already engaged in pulling the ratha carts.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Since five this morning.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Rāmeśvara: Sixty men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where are you going, Ādi-keśa?

Ādi-keśava: Well, they're pulling the cart up. Can't really go right down next to them. It's a very steep incline.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśa, can you just go and let us see the carts?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, just drive right up to it. They should wait.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can wait for a minute. Just move up a little. They're all right. It's not budging, so there's no loss.

Rāmeśvara: No, they announced that this cart was not moving, and they needed fifteen more men. They announced that in the temple room.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go down there, Ādi-keśa.

Prabhupāda: More fifteen men required?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very big. Others have been moved?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, all three are here.

Ādi-keśava: They weigh fourteen thousand pounds each.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you like them, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They are nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Strong? Strong enough?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

[sounds of devotees shouting encouragement]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's going to move because you're here, Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, they have mirrors on the wheels.

Ādi-keśava: Now they are moving. Look at that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Uh-oḥ, it's caught in the wire up there.

Rāmeśvara: That's..., in Philadelphia it was constantly catching.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are mirrors all over the wheels, Rāmeśvara.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, I see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where are the cāmaras?

Ādi-keśava: They have the cāmaras also. They'll be put on afterwards.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is this the small one or the medium size?

Ādi-keśava: This is the big one. [devotees shouting "Prabhupāda! Balarāma!"]

Rāmeśvara: By chanting your name they are getting so much strength.

Satsvarūpa: They are chanting "Prabhupāda, Balarāma."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the best combination. There's Jayānanda leading the way.

Prabhupāda: Ah, the wheels are very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really. Jayānanda has made up good for all the other wheels.

Ādi-keśava: This is the cart you will ride, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Lady Subhadrā's cart from Chicago. We borrowed it.

Ādi-keśava: It's our cart now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Could have been painted, the wheels.

Rāmeśvara: Thick coat of lacquer or varnish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On the wheels.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, right on the wood.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the only place that was varnished in Philadelphia? The rest is painted, right?

Rāmeśvara: I believe so.

Ādi-keśava: Simply by your presence, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the carts will move.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those look like good ropes.

Ādi-keśava: He said they are made out of some nylon, very strong.

Rāmeśvara: Lord Jagannātha was carried by...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wheels are all right?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow, they are painted nicely. Phew! It's going to be a very attractive ceremony.

Prabhupāda: So all the cars should go also, behind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have some... I think we have a lot of good vans here, Rāmeśvara.

Rāmeśvara: We can arrange for it at prasādam. That's the time when everyone should be there.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. [laughs] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very nicely made, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. Thank you for your blessings, Prabhupāda. Look at those spires! Prabhupāda, do you see that spire? It's in the... There's a spire at the top.

Rāmeśvara: Right at the top, right under the canopy on that cart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's going to be placed on top.

Rāmeśvara: And then there must be a flag on top.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Golden colored?

Rāmeśvara: Like gold.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huge spire.

Prabhupāda: Not very heavy?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The spire? No, it's made of foam. It's made of that styrofoam. It couldn't weigh more than five, ten pounds.

Rāmeśvara: But it looks very attractive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It looks very heavy, though. That's a good idea, because it won't weigh the canopy down.

Rāmeśvara: That's a very good idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Carved it out of styrofoam. It's a big festival. The first year three chariots.

Rāmeśvara: Whew! They're going to simply be astonished when the public sees this. The newspapers, they will just be..., they've never seen anything like it. They cannot imagine it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How big are those wheels, Rāmeśvara?

Rāmeśvara: Oh, they must be at least eight feet.

Ādi-keśava: Seven and a half.

Rāmeśvara: Seven and a half feet.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's the park.

Prabhupāda: Very nicely made.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda! Jaya!

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayānanda looks exhausted.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's worked so...

Rāmeśvara: Staying up all nights, working.

Ādi-keśava: For five days he hasn't gone to sleep.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five days and nights he's worked continuously.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...this city, this will be a small parade with some hand-pulled floats. Another trick of the Hare Kṛṣṇas.

Prabhupāda: Bali Mahārāja was asked for three feet of land. "Very good. You speak so nicely, such intelligent, but You are boy, You do not know how to ask. I can give You a big island." "No, I must be satisfied as I require. I don't want more. Only three feet, that's all."

Rāmeśvara: That story is in the Eighth Canto, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. I'm going now with that story. [break] "Rascal, if you give like that, where you will stay? He'll take everything!" Smārta brāhmaṇa. Simply considering, "How I shall live?" [laughs]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Materialist.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did Bali Mahārāja reply?

Prabhupāda: He rejected guru. "You are not guru."

Rāmeśvara: Śukrācārya.

Satsvarūpa: But that guru told him to worship Viṣṇu officially.

Prabhupāda: No, he was by nature Viṣṇu, Vaiṣṇava, like the grandfather, Prahlāda Mahārāja.

Satsvarūpa: But he was a demon.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Satsvarūpa: Born as a demon, in a demon family. Not a demon.

Prabhupāda: Demon family. Viṣṇu-dveṣī[?]. Still, they are kṣatriyas. Just like the Europeans and Americans, they were kṣatriyas, now they have become demons. Actually they are kṣatriyas. I have studied. And the Jews are vaiśyas. [laughter]

Rāmeśvara: The Jews are vaiśyas.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they call them the American Marwaris.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes. They know how to do business and earn money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of your disciples are Jewish.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they know how to make money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They took up your idea of book distribution and they make all the money from it. [laughing]

Prabhupāda: Everything can be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vacaḥ. [break]

Rāmeśvara: Sky is very clear.

Prabhupāda: Yes, good morning. When the sky is clear, the Englishmen call good morning. This is the origin of "good morning." Because unfortunately, in their country the sky is never clear. If by chance some day it is clear, they say, "Oh, it is good morning." That is the origin of that. One Englishman told me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But now they always greet each other by saying, "Good morning, sir."

Prabhupāda: No, it has become now a phrase, but originally the word originated when the morning was good, because that is a great fortune for them. [laughter] Yes, in London I was three months; always gloomy, damp, cloudy. Therefore I..., television said, they asked, "What is your idea of hell?" and "This is hell, London. London is hell." He stopped. He did not ask anything more. This is hell. Simply by big, big buildings, you are keeping as heaven, but it is the hell.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The British propagated in India though that everything was like milk and honey...

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...in Britain.

Prabhupāda: They propagated the Thames River as very big river. And when I first saw it, it is canal. [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Canal. And the Ganges they said was nasty. Thames was a river and the Ganges was...

Prabhupāda: Jamesford, Lord James. That Jamesford is a village only. Some big man, little, take the title lord and go and become governor there. And when some Indian comes they see that Lord Jamesford was traveling in third-class compartment in railway.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These buildings are not actually made of this stone. They are made of brick, covered by stone.

Prabhupāda: But they are very nicely made.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nice pillars, carved.

Prabhupāda: It is not possible now to construct such nice...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda is constructing like this, though.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Museum of Natural History. Actually, it is made of stone. The museums are...

Prabhupāda: Government building, they can stand at the cost of taxpayer. [break] West Central Park?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Central Park West, it's called.

Rāmeśvara: That portion there, Śrīla Prabhupāda, through the trees there is a green dome---I don't know if it can be seen now---that is the Planetarium of the Museum of Natural History. All atheistic arguments are presented there.

Prabhupāda: What is that argument?

Rāmeśvara: All their arguments that life comes from matter, that the universe has no life, or at least that there are just all chemical reactions are the cause of creation of stars; that there are many suns. All these arguments.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have in that museum many scales, and you can go on the scales and weigh yourself as you would weigh on different planets. I remember when I was a child I used to go on one scale after another.

Rāmeśvara: They speculate that if you were on the moon planet, say you weigh one hundred fifty pounds on earth, if you were on the moon planet you would weigh much less.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Twenty-five pounds, one-sixth.

Rāmeśvara: And you would be able to be so light that you could jump very high.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Almost floating.

Prabhupāda: How they have understood these things? From here?

Rāmeśvara: From here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is it confirmed in Bhāgavata?

Prabhupāda: Hah? First thing is that it is full of life. Full of very, very intelligent demigods. They have never gone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If a devotee were to go to the moon, would he see all of these very intelligent demigods?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone would see them. [laughs] But nobody's gone.

Rāmeśvara: No, he would see the cities also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So if someone actually went there, they would see all this life. It's not that you have to have a special vision to see it.

Prabhupāda: But you have to qualify yourself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To get there. But once getting there, I mean, it's plainly visible to the eyes.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda gave the example that Arjuna, he was qualified, so that he went to Indraloka planet one time, and he saw with his eyes the cities, the palace of Indra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he was tempted. Arjuna was tempted when he went to Indraloka. But he closed his eyes.

Prabhupāda: No, descriptions are there of Indraloka. The pavements with pearls.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.

Prabhupāda: That is described, in the eighth chapter you'll find, er, Eighth Canto.

Rāmeśvara: In the Seventh Canto they described the palace of Indra, because Hiraṇyakaśipu had lived there---how he was living there, and the walls of his palace are studded with jewels. There's a nice description. What to speak of an ocean of milk, there's so many things they cannot imagine. [break]


Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit---you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It's all right if the windows are not all...?

Prabhupāda: Who is going to see them? [break]

Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.

Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. [break]

Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...cost so much decoration.

Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?

Prabhupāda: [laughs] No, our executive office.

Rāmeśvara: Executive office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara will have his office here.

Rāmeśvara: Look how interested they are in China. They have a collection of Chinese paintings.

Prabhupāda: Why not our paintings? [break] ...were constructed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think around the turn of the century, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Most of the big buildings like this were constructed at that time. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...prohibited?

Hari-śauri: In the park?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is written there.

Hari-śauri: Because they don't want the park full of drunks.

Rāmeśvara: The children, they don't want them soliciting children or the children to drink anything. It's to protect the children.

Prabhupāda: That means it is bad.

Devotee: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They know it is bad, but they say that everyone has to make his own choice.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They know it is bad, but they like it.

Prabhupāda: Will these parents like that the children may have liberty to follow a dark path? Will the father like?

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why the government doesn't...?

Hari-śauri: They're making too much revenue to stop selling it.

Prabhupāda: That is not good government.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The parents are bad also.

Rāmeśvara: They put an age limit on it. They say you can only buy liquor when you have reached a certain age.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want the children to be good, but the parents are bad.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want the children to be good, but the parents are all bad.

Rāmeśvara: I think you have to be eighteen years old.

Prabhupāda: Then you become bad.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Before you become bad. [laughter]

Prabhupāda: Very good philosophy. Eighteen years, you become bad.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All their culture of goodness is wasted.

Rāmeśvara: Also there are these nightclubs, you have to be a certain age before you can go in.

Prabhupāda: "Afro-American Art." What is this?

Hṛdayānanda: I think it means art by American black persons.

Rāmeśvara: Afro-American means people with dark-skinned bodies, they have painted these paintings.

Hari-śauri: One of the big problems that you read about a lot now is how parents are confused about how to educate their children, because there are so many different standards, and they don't know how their children will turn out anymore.

Prabhupāda: Here is our standard---to make him devotee. [indistinct]

Hṛdayānanda: China.

Rāmeśvara: These are Chinese art paintings. They are having a special exhibit of Chinese art.

Prabhupāda: Afro-American, why not Indo-American?

Bali-mardana: There is an Indian exhibition at a different museum right now. This museum also has Indian exhibitions sometimes.

Satsvarūpa: One of the biggest art professors in this country saw our books recently, and he said he's very interested in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that he thinks it's a new kind of art that your devotees are painting, that that's also a school of art, and more and more it will be recognized.

Rāmeśvara: Right now they have one big exhibit of photographs that the British took when they first came to India.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where's that?

Rāmeśvara: It's at the Asia House Gallery nearby.

Ghanaśyāma: We have professors who buy the complete standing order series of the Bhāgavatam, it's because they like the artwork. And then they read the philosophy and like that too. But the art attracts them many times first. They very much like the purports of your writings, that it gives a living expression of the peoples of India other than just historical.

Prabhupāda: [indistinct] books.

Hṛdayānanda: They purchase books?

Ghanaśyāma: Yes. They like it because it's not dry, like many of the other books---the art and the very boring philosophical presentation. Your works are more enlivening and more easy for the students to understand, especially undergraduate students.

Hari-śauri: They appreciate that your books have got life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we could have some of these up along in front of our building, advertising things within our temple.

Rāmeśvara: These glass display cases.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These glass display cases, if we have these outside the front of our building, people will come in.

Rāmeśvara: That's how they attract people. [break] They are always trying to think how to paint the bodies to look transcendental, or spiritual. So this art historian has said this is a new style of art.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

[in car]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was telling me that when he sells the books... [break] [end]