Morning Walk , New York , 1976-07-13

[in car]

Rāmeśvara: And Śrīla Prabhupāda said, "Now you can go"; otherwise he would not leave.

Prabhupāda: And take some prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His father and mother are also very nice here. They are doing great service, both of them working in the restaurant.

Prabhupāda: So many children are coming, very fortunate children, from the beginning Kṛṣṇa conscious. We had the chance of taking birth from such father and mother. So all these children should be taken care of very nicely. Oh, yes. They'll be asset for our movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Future hope.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Therefore I wanted to organize the gurukula very nicely. We have no objection. Let them produce hundreds of children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said that your Guru Mahārāja said...

Prabhupāda: Yes. "If I could produce Kṛṣṇa conscious children, I am prepared to produce hundred children." What is the use of producing children like cats and dogs? Produce children like Prahlāda Mahārāja. The whole world will be benefited. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārāḥ-sahasraśaḥ [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita]. [break] ...are utilized. Progeny, that is not condemned. Why it should be condemned? Let there be pregnancy, but Kṛṣṇa conscious. That, our Pradyumna's son, these all children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Aniruddha.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. They should be trained up properly. Special care should be taken. That is idea of my Guru Mahārāja, gurukula. Gurukula, we are not going to make some big, big scholars. We don't require scholars. We require ideal men by character, by behavior, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by studying grammar. There are many grammarians. Let them study our books nicely, English, little Sanskrit, that's all. Gurukula organize like that. No, we don't want big, big scholars. Unnecessarily. There are so many scholars in the universities, drinking and woman-hunting, that's all. In the university, I know, to get the degree, pass the examination, the girls have to adopt prostitution with the teachers. I know that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. In India?

Devotee: Everywhere.

Rāmeśvara: Especially in America.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In America.

Prabhupāda: They have to pass the examination by prostitution. Whatever nonsense they may write, that's all right. This is Central Park still?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Central Park West, it's called.

Prabhupāda: This is not education. Everything is killing. Therefore we are supposed to deal with all madmen. They are thinking that they are constructing such big, big buildings, they are the most exalted persons, but we take them as mad.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya
māyā-grasta jīvera se dasa upayay


Ghostly haunted. A person ghostly haunted, as he does, acts, similarly, anyone who is under the clutches of māyā, he acts like this. [break] ...this church, I came. They purchased one set of books. And one lady, Mrs. McGuire I think, she arranged this meeting. Underneath there is subway. I was sitting there, and the subway sound was cut-cut cut-cut cut-cut. So I asked what is this, and they said subway. Within this building there is subway. I think they are repairing. What is this building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one? It's the Museum of Natural History.

Hari-śauri: Memorial to Theodore Roosevelt.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This man Theodore Roosevelt, he was one of the presidents. He was a big hunter, he used to kill animals. And in front it says that he was famous for being a natural conservationist, protecting nature.

Prabhupāda: By killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a big planetarium here also at this museum.

Rāmeśvara: Biggest in the world, I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this planetarium is the most famous one, Hayden Planetarium.

Prabhupāda: So see how the planetarium is done.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we should go, Rāmeśvara. Have you ever gone?

Rāmeśvara: Many years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we go to see it?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They use all kinds of lighting systems. Very sophisticated.

Prabhupāda: So you take the idea. We shall have to do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. All right. They have a special projector.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, we may take the idea and utilize.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In our planetarium, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we want to actually show the different qualities of life on the different planetary systems also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, as far as possible. There is Siddhaloka, they can go from one planet to another without any machine, without any vehicle. Siddhaloka means, just like the yogīs, they can go.

Rāmeśvara: Their body have..., they have wings?

Prabhupāda: No wings. We think only our ideas, that without wings nobody can fly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That picture wasn't accurate.

Rāmeśvara: That was Gandharvaloka.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said they don't have wings either.

Rāmeśvara: I know.

Prabhupāda: So you are purchasing this house?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we thought you'd like it.

Prabhupāda: It is nice house. It is half or...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, full. This one is very nice too.

Prabhupāda: This is also for sale?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think, but it's very good for the temple. Big.

Prabhupāda: Purchase the whole property.

[out of car]

Hari-śauri: Haribol.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seems like it's two different buildings. It is two different buildings. It's just the left side, corner building. In fact, the corner building may be a different one also.

Prabhupāda: [indistinct]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: She was speaking, "You are threatening my dog"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, she said, "Don't touch my dog." She yelled at us, "Don't touch my dog."

Hari-śauri: He had a muzzle on. See this man here, Śrīla Prabhupāda? He's emptied out all the wastepaper baskets all over the grass, and now he's searching through to see if there's anything of any value.

Prabhupāda: What is valuable there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone may have thrown something out which he could use. He's a bum.

Prabhupāda: Another madman. In Hong Kong I have seen, they are searching some food.

Hari-śauri: You can see in every big city, mainly older people, they go and they look in all the rubbish bins.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like they'll find an empty bottle, and then if they return the bottle to the shop, they'll get a deposit, ten or fifteen cents for a bottle deposit.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we've seen the little children coming looking for prasādam left over in the rubbish outside.

Rāmeśvara: This is one of the big problems in the world today. They don't know how to dispose of all the paper and the garbage that they go through. They are selling so many goods, and then they have to throw away the packages. They don't know how to get rid of the garbage.

Devotee: Especially readioactive products.

Rāmeśvara: They try to throw it in the ocean sometimes.

Prabhupāda: And for manufacturing the paper they are cutting so many trees and committing sinful life.

Rāmeśvara: The scientists report that by throwing all this garbage in the ocean they kill many fish. Here in New York there is one beach called Coney Island, and no fish can live near the shore; they are all dying.

Prabhupāda: Why they are so sympathetic to the fish? Because they will eat it. No? They are thinking that "We shall eat the fish, and they are dying." Is it not?

Hari-śauri: Do you want your hat, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? No. This is ventilation. [laughter]

Bhakta Viśvaretā [child]: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: You are feeling cold? Mister? You are feeling cold?

Bhakta Viśvaretā [child]: No.

Devotee (1): [dog barking] It's that same lady again.

Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we went to one other part of the park down there, and we found they have a big statue of a dog there, and it says, "In honor of the dogs." Some sled-dogs that came and saved some people in Alaska in 1926, a big statue of a dog. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...cold.

Prabhupāda: He has got some? Children are not affected. Old men are affected. For children, if there is diarrhea it is good; for old man, if there is diarrhea he is going to die. [break] ...evolution of man, what about the trees?

Bali-mardana: Trees?

Prabhupāda: Trees and plants, and aquatics and insects.

Rādhā-vallabha: They don't say anything much about trees, but they say aquatics eventually became walking animals.

Bali-mardana: Yes, when the ocean dried up, then they had to develop lungs to breathe. But there is a type of fish that walks. So they say that this fish gradually developed legs and lungs and everything.

Rādhā-vallabha: The fish walks on his fins. They say after millions of years of walking on his fins, gradually the fins became legs.

Bali-mardana: It is African lung-fish. It lives in the mud.

Prabhupāda: And they do not speak anything about trees.

Rādhā-vallabha: Not that I've ever seen.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: I've never seen anything.

Hari-śauri: No, they say the organisms that were originally in the water, and when there was some land formed...

Prabhupāda: How is this grass is evolving?

Rādhā-vallabha: They say that the wind blows the seeds. Or animals drop them. They also say that flying animals, like birds, came from the sea in one form.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I heard one island had just appeared sometime back from a volcano underneath the ocean in the middle of the Pacific.

Hari-śauri: There's one near Norway as well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The scientists wanted to find out how long it would take before life appeared on this island in the middle of nowhere. So they were thinking it might take thousands of millions and billions of years, because there had been no life there to begin with. But they found that within one year it was full of so much plants, vegetation.

Prabhupāda: Just see, how rascal they are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That should disprove all of their theories.

Prabhupāda: They speak all... That the egg will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days. So why these rascal do not transfer their doctorate title to the chicken [laughter] instead of bluffing other rascals that "We are doctorate"? They should be ashamed to keep their doctorate. "Now let us transfer to the chicken; within five days there is life." Huh? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Bali-mardana: I am sure you are right.

Prabhupāda: The chicken is bringing from the egg life within five days, and they are calculating millions of years. Such rascals are passing as scientist. If chemical is the basis of life, just make some experiment, take the chemical and make a small egg and put into the incubator and bring life. Why they do not? Hmm? It will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days?

Bali-mardana: They say in a few years they will do it.

Prabhupāda: Why few years? Rascaldom. Dr. Chicken is doing in five days, so why you enjoy this title? You give up. You be ashamed. You are shameless, therefore you are talking all this nonsense. You have no human sense also.

Bali-mardana: They say that in the laboratory we are working on this, and very soon we will have the answer.

Prabhupāda: That means that you are a rascal. You admit that you are a rascal. We see one sparrow bringing within few days, life. So many birds, they are bringing life within few days.

Rāmeśvara: They say there are certain chemicals in the body...

Prabhupāda: All right, you rascal, big chemist, you combine these chemicals and bring life. Why do you not do that? Simply talking millions and trillions of years just to bluff other rascals. You are a rascal and you are bluffing other rascals. That is your business. And getting high salary, that's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even they can take a dead body, there's no need to manufacture the body, and try and put life back into it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, give him some chemical. So many dead bodies are being wasted. Give some chemical and let them come back in life.

Jayādvaita: They are freezing the bodies sometimes, so that in the future when they perfect that ability, they'll revive these dead bodies and they'll live again. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...things are going on. [break]

Rāmeśvara: ...science called genetics, where they study the chemicals which determine the characteristics of the living entity---whether he has fair skin, or...

Prabhupāda: That our Svarūpa Dāmodara has begun with this rascal genetics. He has written that Scientific Basis, beginning with these rascals, genetics.

Rāmeśvara: Before they can try to create life, they have to master this science of genetics first. This controls whether a living entity has different color eyes and hair and ability to hear and see, everything. So they say when they have mastered that science, then the next step will be to create life.

Prabhupāda: That will take millions of years. By that time he'll be finished. [laughter]

Jayādvaita: Sometimes people say that although the body changes, the genes are the same, therefore it's not the soul that continues in the body but these genes. So they argue that we're this body. [break]

Rāmeśvara: ...that by genetics they can develop the higher qualities in man, and they can arrange at birth to develop the finest qualities, strength, different talents also, like artistic talents, musical talents, better intelligence, all by chemistry.

Prabhupāda: So how much chemical he has devoured for becoming so intelligent? That man who is proposing chemicals, so how much quantity of chemical he has eaten to speak all this nonsense?

Bali-mardana: One of their programs is selective breeding---only let the so-called intelligent people have children and let all the unintelligent people not have any children.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then who will clean up the park if they do that?

Rādhā-vallabha: No one does it anyway.

Rāmeśvara: They are thinking that in the future they can make...

Prabhupāda: All future. [dog barking] Future, however pleasant. Post-dated check. Future, millions of years after, you'll get payment, take this check.

Rādhā-vallabha: This dog is after everyone. It attacks everyone that comes by, and the lady gets angry when they try to get the dog away.

Prabhupāda: Is there fish here?

Hari-śauri: It's just the water moving, little waves, that's all. This is just a pond for sailing model boats, so I don't think there'd be any fish.

Devotee (1): There's fish in there.

Hari-śauri: Fish?

Devotee (1): Sure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The fish eat up the algae, keep it clean.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...skyscraper building, how many stories they can build? Is there any estimation?

Rādhā-vallabha: Over a hundred.

Prabhupāda: Now, how many?

Bali-mardana: There is no exact figure; they are always making higher. Now I think a hundred and thirty.

Rāmeśvara: No, it's more than that.

Bali-mardana: A hundred thirty, a hundred forty.

Prabhupāda: And when they'll fall?

Bali-mardana: When the earthquake comes, boom, everything finished.

Hari-śauri: That structure you saw in Toronto, that big tower? That's supposed to be the highest free-standing structure in the world. Over fifteen hundred feet.

Bali-mardana: In Boston there is one big skyscraper, John Hancock Building, and they cannot utilize it because... What is the reason?

Ādi-keśava: Every time the wind blows it begins to bend back and forth in the breeze.

Bali-mardana: It sways.

Ādi-keśava: It swings back and forth in the breeze, and all the windows fell out. When we were two years ago in Boston, every day we used to hear how more windows had fallen in, so they made it all with wood. So it was a huge skyscraper with wood in the windows instead of glass.

Bali-mardana: Still they are not utilizing it.

Ādi-keśava: No, it's still bent; it cracked open.

Bali-mardana: It cost them over sixty, seventy million dollars, and they cannot use it.

Ādi-keśava: It cracked all the concrete in the sidewalks because it was bending back and forth.

Prabhupāda: Which way?

Devotee (1): Left.

Prabhupāda: They have no estimation, that "So far we can come, then we'll fall"?

Bali-mardana: I don't know. It all depends upon the foundation.

Rādhā-vallabha: In New York they can build them so high because the entire island of Manhattan is made out of rock, and there's never any earthquakes.

Bali-mardana: Not yet, anyway.

Jayādvaita: As far as I know, they think that they can make them bigger and bigger, without any limit.

Devotee: Four hundred stories. [break]

Prabhupāda: And fell down later on.

Bali-mardana: There is a story in the Bible how they were trying to build this big building, the Tower of Babel, and then the whole thing... Because they were so proud, God made them all speak different languages so they could not communicate with one another, and the whole project was finished. They were trying to build a huge building.

Rādhā-vallabha: They were actually trying to reach God.

Bali-mardana: Yes. To reach heaven. That is how the Christians, in Christianity, explain that people speak different languages.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In Japan they never build big buildings because they know the earthquakes will come. They have maybe ten, twelve stories at the most. [break]

Rādhā-vallabha: The big ones in New York, they build in such a way that it's very difficult to evacuate them in case of a fire, and this movie company did a movie of the two buildings burning up. So after that no one would move into them. They were half empty. So the city had to move all of its government offices into the buildings just to fill them. [dog barking] The Russian dogs are the largest dogs in the world.

Bali-mardana: Dogs to hunt wolves. These dogs are used to hunt wolves in Russia.

[break] [in car]

Prabhupāda: ...saṅge calo, ei mātra bhikhā cāi. "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and come with us," that's all. We don't want any more. No fees. We don't say, "First of all pay so many dollars." There is no condition. "Simply chant and come. We shall arrange for your food, we shall arrange for your shelter, everything." Still they will not come. They will go and pay fees and chant nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe we should charge, then they will become more encouraged.

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Others will be discouraged.

Hari-śauri: The ones who are paying are the ones who want to be cheated.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: The ones who are paying are the ones that want to be cheated, and the ones who come here are the ones who are serious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: You once said that the scientists are the number-one enemy of mankind.

Prabhupāda: They are not enemy, but because they are bluffing, "There is no God, everything is science..." That is their foolishness. We are protesting against that.

Rāmeśvara: People have a lot of faith that the world is making progress through the scientists.

Prabhupāda: What progress they have made?

Rādhā-vallabha: Towards destruction.

Prabhupāda: Have they stopped death? What is progress? After all, we are going to die.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have increased the chance of death. They only have increased.

Prabhupāda: Even not increase, even it is very comfortable, but you have to die. First of all check this. You have to become old. What you have done in that direction?

Hari-śauri: Killing people quicker so that they don't have to face old age.

Rāmeśvara: They have bluffed everyone that the life duration has increased.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they have said that.

Rāmeśvara: By the improvement in medicine...

Prabhupāda: That's right, accepting increase, but it is not that death is stopped. Just like they have made so many medical improvements, but that does not mean that they have stopped disease.

Hari-śauri: Well, they don't claim they can stop death.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. What is the improvement? If you stop disease, then it is improvement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say no one can do that.

Prabhupāda: Then you are subordinate. Do not claim all in all because you are scientist. Then you are controlled. You have to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We accept that no one is perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, controlled. That is their defect. They are being controlled in every step; still, they think they are free. That is their defect. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. They are fully controlled by the laws of nature, and still the great rascal, he's thinking that he's free.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But gradually, they say, we will learn to control nature.

Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.

Prabhupāda: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is intelligent.

Hari-śauri: But because they are all Dr. Frog, they are thinking that things are so far out of their control that no one can control it, that material nature is not controlled by anyone. They are thinking that because they cannot control material nature, then no one can.

Prabhupāda: But they are being controlled. They, themselves, being controlled.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say nature means laws, impersonal laws.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, impersonal laws, but you are controlled, rascal. That you admit. Whatever it may be, you rascal, you are controlled.

Rāmeśvara: They say if everyone joined this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then no one would have any desire to invent the automobile, the airplane...

Prabhupāda: But it is useless waste of time. The sooner they give up all these attempts, they become saner. [break]... it is said it is simply waste of time. Yato āyur vyayaḥ param. Simply wasting time, valuable life.

Rāmeśvara: But the natural instinct is to want to enjoy varieties...

Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā [SB 7.5.31]. Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed---Napoleon, Hitler---but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.

Hari-śauri: That was when he died? He died then?

Prabhupāda: He was so much insulted. Because every European countries were harassed. They had very bad idea about this Napoleon. Unnecessarily expanding the interest of France. "France and Napoleon, one." Now where is that rascal? France is there. This is going on. British Empire means bring money, hook or crook, in London, and you get the title "lord," "baron," this... This was their policy. "Sir." All hooligans, thieves, rogues, they were made big, big respectable people. A deposit in the government. This lord family means they have to deposit, say, ten million pounds, like that, and the government takes that money as fixed deposit, and the interest the family will maintain the aristocracy. This is the lord family. Some way or other you deposit ten millions of pounds and your family becomes lord family. So people become mad after money, somehow or other bring money. There was no other culture. In order to introduce their Manchester cloth, how they killed the home industry of India, cloth merchant, this weaver... Just like we are trying. It is very long time, this, the handloom. They cut the finger.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The British did that.

Prabhupāda: The British did that so that the weavers could not work, just to introduce their Manchester cloth. So many things they did. It is in the history.

Rāmeśvara: In America you never hear such history. In school...

Prabhupāda: They simply killed the Red Indians, that is the only.

Rāmeśvara: But in the schools they never tell you these things.

Prabhupāda: How they will tell, shameful?

Hari-śauri: In England it was "How we saved India."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is saving India?

Rāmeśvara: They say the "white man's burden." They came to make India civilized.

Hari-śauri: They showed us this...

Prabhupāda: Therefore all the śāstras, they bring in within Christian era. Before that, India was uncivilized. And if they accept all the Vedic literature, so exalted, then they have to accept Indian civilization. That is their propaganda. Simply propaganda, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: That's why you say Darwinism was started by the English...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...to discredit the Vedic literature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just like a bunch of demons.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like it's such a concerted effort.

Rāmeśvara: A great conspiracy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A conspiracy of all the leaders of the world.

Rāmeśvara: Leaders. The bankers, they say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's another deploy. Scientists are pointing to the bankers, each group points to the other, and they all cheat together. Just like we used to do... [indistinct]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These demons, Śrīla Prabhupāda, all of them are dehātma-buddhi?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all most of they have... [end]