Morning Walk , New York , 1976-07-11

[in car]

Prabhupāda: I spoke about this cosmic manifestation, where is Vaikuṇṭha, where is... This is a church?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Second Church of Christ Scientist.

Hari-śauri: Was it a Catholic church or..., where you went?

Rāmeśvara: The Library Party said that everywhere they go in India, they find that you went there first with your first three volumes of Bhāgavatam. Especially in New Delhi, they said. There's one institute which had fifty sets of your original first canto, so now they ordered fifty complete sets to complete the books they had. They said that all the major colleges had your original Bhāgavatams in India, first edition. So then they could understand that you were distributing books yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They became very enlivened, inspired.

Prabhupāda: In India the sannyāsīs beg, but I did not beg. I sold my Back to Godhead, books. I got income tax free...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You always gave literature.

Prabhupāda: I think this church.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Universalist Church. You always gave literature in return for donations you received.

Prabhupāda: That is going on still.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Knowledge..., what is this?

Hari-śauri: It says "Truth, knowledge, vision."

Rāmeśvara: This is a museum.

Hari-śauri: "State of New York Memorial to Theodore Roosevelt."

Prabhupāda: Who is this gentleman on the horse?

Rāmeśvara: That's one of the former presidents, Theodore Roosevelt.

Prabhupāda: This road is very infamous.

Hari-śauri: Very infamous?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Means notorious. They say that black men, they capture white women.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I've seen it. When I was very young I saw it. I was playing in the park, because I lived next to Central Park, and this..., these... We were playing with my friend and his sister, and this black man jumped and grabbed her and raped her right in Central Park. I was only about six years old.

Prabhupāda: And what was the age of the girl?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About twelve. So I have personal experience. Especially in the upper part of this park, about Eighty, Ninetieth, Hundredth Street, there it's very dangerous. Where we are on Fifty-ninth street, it's not very dangerous. And on the east side down here it's not that dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Just see these black men living in such a highly rich country, and civilized men, but their nature is not changed. Angara satatau tena[?]. But they can be changed only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No other way. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā... [SB 2.4.18].

[break] [on walk]

Bali-mardana: Fifty-ninth Street.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a good location. This building is for sale.

Prabhupāda: This is that Vedic oṁ or something like that?

Hari-śauri: I think so. It says "Oṁ eternal."

Bali-mardana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The oṁ word is used in English?

Bali-mardana: Oṁ is very popular in English language for a long time. When they think of mystical things, they think of oṁ. The English, originally because they were in India, they thought to imitate some Indian words.

Prabhupāda: Many Indian words have been introduced in dictionary. And many English words is also introduced. That is natural. [break]

Bali-mardana: ...introduced Kṛṣṇa in the Western world.

Prabhupāda: No, it was in the dictionary.

Bali-mardana: But many people had never heard it before you brought it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also the dictionary definition is not perfect.

Bali-mardana: The first time I heard Kṛṣṇa was from Allen Ginsberg.

Prabhupāda: He went to India.

Bali-mardana: And he learned it from you.

Hari-śauri: Generally in the dictionary they say Kṛṣṇa is one of the Hindu trilogy of gods. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...moha janmani.[?] This world is anitya; you cannot stay here. That is sure. And still we are attached. We make so many arrangements...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, a man sees that his father has died---everyone is dying---why does he believe that he will not die?

Prabhupāda: That is the wonderful thing. Kim āścaryam ataḥ param [Mahābhārata, Vana-parva 313.116], Yudhiṣṭhira Mahārāja said. He was asked, "What is the most wonderful thing in this world?" So he replied, "This is the most wonderful thing, that everyone sees that everyone is dying; he's thinking 'I shall not die.' This is the most wonderful thing."

Bali-mardana: But the hedonists, they say that "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you will die."

Prabhupāda: No, no, he knows that he'll die, but still he does not prepare, because he's foolish. Pramattaḥ tasya līlānāṁ paśyann api na paśyati. Pramattaḥ, mad, crazy. He sees that everyone dies, "I am also dying," but he does not know what is after death.

Bali-mardana: He does not know what to do to prepare.

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. So this education, this civilization is so dangerous that everyone is kept in the darkness. And when he dies, this everything is finished, he's going to accept. Whatever body the nature gives him, he has to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes people criticize us that we are talking too much about death.

Prabhupāda: Because we are not fool like you. Because "As sure as death." But you are so fool you do not think of it. So we are not rascal like you. This is the difference. We take practical reality, but you are such a fool you don't care for the reality. So we are not so fool like you are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But even though you are making so many arrangements to prepare yourself, still you have to die.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. I'll die, but I am... Just like one has to go somewhere, he'll know everyone has to go. Man..., suppose a building has to be dismantled. So the tenants or the residents, they make arrangement, "Where shall I go next?" And the foolish rascal, he doesn't care. And when the time comes for dismantling the house, he becomes busy, oh, he does not know. That is the difference between you and me. I know this house is to be dismantled, so I'm making preparation where to go and stay. But you are such a fool, you are thinking that we'll stay here.

Bali-mardana: It's like on the ship they have a drill in case the ship is going to sink, so you know where to go. But they make no preparation where to go after death, which is certain.

Prabhupāda: That is dog's life---the dog does not know.

Bali-mardana: They are two-legged dogs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there's a popular philosophy now that actually the dog is happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, ignorance is bliss. It is folly to be wise. Fool's paradise. Anyone..., like a child is happy. There is danger, but child does not care for it. But therefore it is called foolish. That is the difference between child and the child's father.

Bali-mardana: They may say that he is happy, but he may kill himself at any moment. [break]

Rāmeśvara: They say it is impossible for any man to know what will happen to him after death. It is not possible, so why think about it?

Prabhupāda: But after all, there is death. So why you are afraid of death? Why you do not die peacefully? Why you protest against death? Huh? If I want to kill you, will you peacefully die?

Rāmeśvara: No.

Prabhupāda: Why you scream? Why don't you want to die?

Rāmeśvara: Give up my life, my body?

Prabhupāda: Why you are so much attached to live? That is the question. Now "I'm dying, let me die." Why you protest? That means your nature is that you shall live. But you are being interrupted by death. That is the...

Rādhā-vallabha: The doctors say they have seen death, and it looks very much like a very peaceful sleep.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: My mother told me this. She said... She was a nurse, and she's seen many people die, and they all look very peaceful when they die.

Prabhupāda: Nobody dies peacefully. [laughs] They shall cry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have described it very vividly in the Bhāgavatam, how horrible it is.

Prabhupāda: I have seen one of our relatives, she's dying, and his second son, she's calling, "My dear such and such, I give you in charge. I could not do," like that. And died.

Bali-mardana: She was attached.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is attached. I have seen one of my nephews, young man. So his young wife and children, when he was... He began to strike his head like that, that "I am dying without any provision for my wife and..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is his future?

Prabhupāda: Future means he'll have to come back again, either in the same family or in the dog's family, dog's life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. In this way, he'll take birth and die. Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: You were saying they take rest for seven months and they wake up a dog.

Prabhupāda: Maybe dog or maybe somebody else; that doesn't matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the last, about three years ago or so, there is a new branch of study, it is called biomedical ethics, that deals with the symptom of death = How can one define when a person dies? What are the symptoms? And how can we judge that this man is dead? It is a great controversy in medical science.

Bali-mardana: They went to the Supreme Court to question when does death occur.

Prabhupāda: So what Supreme Court will decide? [laughter] What you nonsense judge know? He's also as good a rascal as the person who put the question.

Bali-mardana: Actually, they admitted that they could not decide.

Rāmeśvara: The argument is that by medicine or by injecting some..., inserting some apparatus, some machine, they can keep the heart beating.

Prabhupāda: You rascal, he's another rascal. And one who believes in it, he's also a rascal.

Hari-śauri: I was reading the other day that at one university they started a course where they take the students through a course of death. They study death, and then they try to get them to...

Prabhupāda: If it was possible to keep them by medicine, then no rich man would have died. They have got sufficient means to pay for medicine, and he would have kept his relatives, son alive. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ [SB 7.9.19]. Prahlāda Mahārāja has said. It is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: They are very hopeful that modern medicine can keep them...

Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.

Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years...

Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called... What is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. [laughter] So he's going, he's... [gesticulates] [laughter] This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have seen it.

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows, this is a common thing in India. You'll see, the baka is going on. He's hoping, "This fish will drop and..." [laughter] Therefore they are baka. Bokā means rascal, bokā means rascal. In India we say any fool, bokā or baka.

Bali-mardana: Baka is a duck?

Prabhupāda: Means that the duck is a fool. Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Very appropriate, this bakāṇḍo nyāya. Logic of duck and testicle.

Rāmeśvara: You say they are ghostly haunted.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rāmeśvara: Ghostly haunted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone, the materialistic man means ghostly haunted. He's talking so many nonsense. The whole grade, philosophy, science and everything, all ghostly talking, that's all. There is no reality. Just like the new science you said, what is that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Huh?

Prabhupāda: That new medical science?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Biomedical ethics.

Prabhupāda: A big name.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's a nice name. They started with theology also now, in the speculative branch of philosophy.

Prabhupāda: So in spite of these big, big names and research and everything, man will die. This is bakāṇḍo nyāya. He's thinking it will drop. It will never be possible, but they're thinking that by these big, big names we shall find out the way that man will not die. This is bakāṇḍo nyāya. Hope against hope. So by that method they want to live? No.

Bali-mardana: No. They want to decide when to turn off the machine that is keeping the heart beating, because sometimes the brain stops functioning. The person..., the body is still alive, but there's no consciousness.

Prabhupāda: The coma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Also they cut out the hearts when they do these heart transplants. They've been accused of taking out the heart of a living person.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The doctors have been accused of taking out the hearts of living persons.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So how to use it? What they'll use?

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes if a man is in critical condition he will donate his bodily organs, so they will kill him just to take out his heart so that they can use it for transplanting.

Bali-mardana: When his brain stops, even though the heart is beating, they take it out.

Prabhupāda: So?


Prabhupāda: That is the question put by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya [Cc. Madhya 20.102]. "I want to live, but what is that force that does not allow me to live?" This is the question. This is the question. They are trying to find out so many laws, so many..., what is the purpose? They want to live, but there is a force that will not allow you to live. That is the human question. When this question arises, then he is human being; otherwise he's a dog. Dog never inquires.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He has no control over it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He has no control over it.

Prabhupāda: Neither he can understand. He has no intelligence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today is the disappearance day of Sanātana Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is also guru-pūrṇimā.

Prabhupāda: Today?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Is there some special celebration or significance?

Prabhupāda: Guru-pūjā, that you are doing daily. [reads sign] "Model sailboat."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the children come here, not only children but adults, and they have some model, toy models which they sail around.

Prabhupāda: So it is not very deep.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's a very colorful display. Hundreds of people come, especially on Sundays, sailing their boats.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda? In this biomedical science, this ethics, there's a problem arising. The person, the family of the person who is suffering, says that "Please don't apply these machines. Let the person die." But the medical doctors say, "No, we'll keep him alive as long as we can go on." So this is a problem. So who's right? Is the family right, or...

Prabhupāda: Family right. Family is intelligent, that "You are rascal, why you are trying? Let him die peacefully."

Bali-mardana: They say, "Let him die in dignity. Why keep him in the machine?" The family says, "Let him die in dignity."

Rāmeśvara: They keep him in coma.

Prabhupāda: After all, you cannot protect. Why you give trouble at the time of death? You cannot protect; your foolish attempt will not help him. This is the same philosophy, that the animal is suffering, to kill him. Mercy of killing, what is called?

Rāmeśvara: Euthanasia. Mercy killing.

Prabhupāda: So this is nonsense. Mercy killing. Killing mercy. [laughs] Just see. The action is killing, and that is his mercy. This is their mercy. All contradictory. Killing by mercy? Mercy is killing?

Hari-śauri: There's an example that's just going up to the courts now. There's one family, their daughter was being supported by one machine, so that one day they went in early and pulled out the plugs. So now they are being taken to court. They stopped the machine because she'd been in a coma for so long, so they just pulled out the plugs and everything, the machine. So that's what they call mercy killing. They don't like the doctors just to keep them there uselessly.

Rāmeśvara: But then they want to kill the old people. This mercy killing, they think that "An old man is suffering, so let us kill him."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think if someone dies in their sleep, they are very lucky.

Prabhupāda: It is dangerous to die here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not as dangerous as in Africa. I saw one movie, and there's one tribe, that when a man becomes very old...

Prabhupāda: Yes, I've heard of that.

Hari-śauri: They throw him on the roof, and then eat him.

Prabhupāda: That is a feast.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Love feast.

Prabhupāda: Grandfather feast. Now great-grandfather feast.

Cyavana: We're preaching to them, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Trying to change them.

Rāmeśvara: Also the Eskimos, when a man gets old, if he is an Eskimo, then he has to go out into the ice lands and wait for some animal to kill him. He cannot stay at home and be supported by the family.

Bali-mardana: He eats too much, they say.

Rāmeśvara: Too much burden.

Bali-mardana: Because he's eating, and he is not able to go and hunt, they send them out to die.

Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they'll do. All old men should be killed. That time is coming. Don't become old. [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are teaching us to remain young forever, Prabhupāda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One must become Kṛṣṇa conscious to become young.

Prabhupāda: So many difficulties will come unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66], if you want to be happy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's true. If people are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the origin[?] of these problems like death and all these...

Bali-mardana: You are instructing us to finish up our business in this life.


nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve
na kutaścana bibhyati
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ

Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was put in so many dangerous conditions. He was not afraid. "Hare Kṛṣṇa," he would chant.

Cyavana: All over the entire world we find the Indian community, practically speaking. Is this part of Lord Caitanya's plan to help spread this Vedic culture?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order, that you speak the Vedic culture. That is India's mission. But these rascals, they are speaking technology.

Devotee: Try to make money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that it is due to this culture that India has been kept down. Because the British taught them that, and now they themselves think like that.

Prabhupāda: Still, any Indian who comes to speak about some culture like this, you flock together. Why? Why you go to this Maharishi and this Bal Yogi and this one? Why?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They're from India.

Prabhupāda: Because you expect something from India. They are cheating, that is different thing, but you go there to get something from India. That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means you have delivered the real goods, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. They're expecting. I read some article from India = they're expecting some good message.

Bali-mardana: They are like glowworms, and you are like the sun.

Prabhupāda: No, they know that "These people, they are wanting something, so let us go and cheat." This is going on.

Bali-mardana: They're simply businessmen.

Prabhupāda: So far I am concerned, I have not come here to cheat you nor to gain. I've come to execute the order of my Guru Mahārāja.

Bali-mardana: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I have no business to cheat you, neither to get something from you.

Devotee: Prabhupāda, is it possible that a living entity, a jīva soul, can have pastimes in relation to God?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: If it's not nonsense...

Bali-mardana: He's a crazy boy. [break]

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. One who is to come from India, he should come for para-upakāra, for doing welfare to others, not to cheat them. But these people, they come. In the name of para-upakāra, they cheat. Which way we have to go?

Devotees: This way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is easier.

Bali-mardana: Prabhupāda, you are the only Indian who has taken up this mission, out of six hundred and eighty million. [dog barking loudly]

Woman: Don't touch that dog. He's wearing a muzzle. Just leave him alone, he won't trouble you. [laughter]

Prabhupāda: What she said?

Hari-śauri: She says don't touch the dog, it's wearing a muzzle.

Rādhā-vallabha: She should wear a muzzle. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...come with dog. Dog is not allowed.

Rādhā-vallabha: That's her family.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: That's her family.

Cyavana: Sometimes they say, "I treat my dog just like he were my own child."

Prabhupāda: "Dog's mother." Why don't you call in one word, "I am dog's mother." [laughter]

Hari-śauri: They keep all kinds of things as pets. My mother knew a woman who kept a pet pig. She used to carry it around like a dog, in her arms, with a little bow.

Prabhupāda: When the natural tendency is to get child, but child is killed, and a pig is taken. This is their civilization. Child is killed and pig is taken, dog is taken. This is their civilization.

Bali-mardana: They are preparing for their next birth as a pig.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Naturally you take child, take it = "No, that kill." And take artificially a pig or dog or cat. Take it.

Tripurāri: They say animal has no soul, therefore they can kill the cow and eat the meat. But when we say, "What if I cut your dog's head off," they become very upset.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Why upset? It has no soul. Kill it.

Tripurāri: They cannot explain it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was one story that this family came, they were touring the world, and they came to Hong Kong, and they were carrying their pet dog with them also. So they went to one restaurant and they left their dog tied up on a leash outside the restaurant, because that is the custom in America. So they told the man at the door, the doorman, they pointed to the dog, just to take care of the dog. So anyway, then they went in and they had their dinner and then they came out, and the dog was gone. They said, [laughter] "Where's my dog?" And the man said, "Well, you pointed to him, we have prepared him for you."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do that. He thought that he has pointed out this dog.

Hari-śauri: They brought their dinners with them.

Tripurāri: Man cannot understand, but a little child can understand very easily. Just like one of our book distributors, Praghoṣa, when he was a young child they had a pet duck, the family, and one day the father killed the duck and put him on the table.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tripurāri: They roasted the duck and put him on the table, but none of the children would eat. They became sick and they left. They would not eat. The father could not understand.

Hari-śauri: My father did that with a pet rabbit that I had as well. Came home from school one day and it was gone.

Prabhupāda: They are eating their own child even.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, we come from the lowest of the low.

[in car]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the possibility of opening more than one temple in this city? Just like if there's a good building on the East Side, if we can manage, what about the possibility of that?

Prabhupāda: If you can manage, very good. In a city like New York you can have ten, twelve centers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I mean the Christians have so many churches in every part of the city.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Similarly, we can have temples.

Rāmeśvara: You said that once in Los Angeles to me.

Prabhupāda: That Juhu temple, Akash Ganga, you know? Everyone asked me not to go there, "Nobody will go there." I said, "It is Bombay city. Wherever we shall go, people will come."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The question is whether, if we open another temple, it will increase the total number of people coming, or whether simply the same people will come to two different locations.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got demand, then you can open.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First let us fill up this place.

Rāmeśvara: In other words, instead of filling up that building and then just buying a new one, you just buy a second temple. And keep it that way.

Prabhupāda: That's a good building.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shouldn't give it up. Very good facility. Especially once we make all improvements on it, why we should give it up? Better to simply open another one.

Prabhupāda: And that is advertised means nobody's purchasing at this quarter, it is not very safe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This quarter? No, this is the most prestigious. Fifth Avenue between Seventy-ninth Street and Thirty-fourth Street is the prime location. That's about as far north as you would want to go. Any further north uptown will not be nice, but this area here is very select. The best area is from Fifty-ninth Street to Thirty-fourth Street on Fifth Avenue, where all the shops are, the library. That area is very high class. This is Fifty-seventh Street, Fifty-fifth Street.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, if the spiritual master has a mission, is it proper for the disciple to think that he can take more than one..., he can take many births to help the mission of the spiritual master?

Prabhupāda: When the spiritual master goes there, somewhere, his nearest assistants, they automatically go there to assist him. When Kṛṣṇa comes, the demigods also come to help Him. That is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. All these Yadus, Yadu family, they came from heaven. So before Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, by some trick they were all killed and they returned to their original place. It is nicely described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Just see, small house, this yellow. Still, in New York City.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, small little house. [end]