Morning Walk , New York , 1976-07-10

[in room before walk]

Hari-śauri: Everyone is infected with this "Life comes from chemicals." That I was talking to the air hostess on the plane coming, and she said, "But life comes from chemicals." This is the way everybody's taught in the schools. They don't know any different and they don't think about it. They have no intelligence to understand.

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we say that you take an egg and find out the chemicals, and put it into the incubator or under a chicken, get life, "No, wait millions of years." This bluffing. And this moon planet–going means Arizona. That is now disclosed. They take photographs in the Arizona. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take photographs where?

Hari-śauri: In Arizona. There's an article, and it showed a picture of Mars and then it compared this..., there's supposed to be this canyon four miles deep. So they said it compares to the Grand Canyon in Arizona, like that. So Prabhupāda said that by even mentioning Arizona they've revealed themselves. And he told one story about, there's a man, he heard a noise in his room, and he said, "Ah, who is that?" And immediately the reply came, "Oh, I'm not stealing." So even without asking, they've revealed themselves by saying Arizona, even mentioning Arizona.

Prabhupāda: Why these rascals compare it with Arizona? As if there is no other place in the world. Everything they are doing in Arizona. All photographed in this place. Now they have been caught. I was always protesting, "These rascals have never gone." For the last ten years I've protested. Whenever they asked me, I say straightly, "It is all childish. They have never gone, neither they'll be able to go." That has been proved available. Now they do not talk about it. That is finished. All propaganda, finished. Now they have taken another...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mars.

Prabhupāda: ...to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them. The so-called svāmīs exploiting, yogīs exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? And this is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity; they are kept in darkness. The demons. "There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets. They are simply show. This planet is full of..." It is all scientists, and they are vacant. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is such a challenge. Your statements are such a challenge to their so-called science that they're still in shock. I still think that they do not take us seriously yet, because it's such a difference to what they are saying. Soon, gradually, they'll take notice.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have engaged these scientists. They are going to publish one paper.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.

Prabhupāda: Sa-vijñānam.

Hari-śauri: That's the name of the paper. Sa-vijñānam.

Prabhupāda: And other scientists have joined. Scientist in four subject matters, an Indian gentleman.

Hari-śauri: I think he's here now.

Prabhupāda: He's here? He has come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's his name?

Hari-śauri: Sharma.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, no. Different one.

Hari-śauri: This man has four Ph.D.'s.

Prabhupāda: He has got some international name. So he says that "It's great fortune I have met you." He's now realizing his mistakes. He has still some respect for Vivekananda. That I did not disturb; he might misunderstand. Actually this Vivekananda rascal, what he has done? What is his contribution?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You always add on "rascal" whenever you mention his name.

Prabhupāda: No, no, what he has done? He has ruined the Vedic culture.

Hari-śauri: Completely misrepresented it.

Prabhupāda: And the Bon Mahārāja is his follower. He's in name a disciple of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī, but he's a servant of Vivekananda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's very similar to him.

Prabhupāda: He's a great appreciator of Vivekananda. He has put in his curriculum Vivekananda philosophy, Gandhi philosophy. Rascal, what philosophy they have got?

Hari-śauri: He mentioned all the nonsense people. He put a circular out, he mentioned Rama Tirtha, Vivekananda, all these nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Now I am convinced he's a rascal. He's nothing but a great rascal. My Guru Mahārāja rejected him. Rejected him. Therefore he was called back, rascal. He used to say like that, banamānuṣa. Banamānuṣa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bon?

Prabhupāda: His name is Bon Mahārāja, and my Guru Mahārāja used to say banamānuṣa. Banamānuṣa means the gorilla. [laughter] He is black also like gorilla. He has given so much trouble to Guru Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we should go now, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Called him back = "Call this rascal back." Every month he was being sent seven hundred rupees. That, in those days, seven hundred rupees is a big amount. So at least ten time value has gone up. Seven hundred means seven thousand. He was spending for nothing, and he was publishing report, "Swāmījī is playing on harmonium." And photo. This is first year, second, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he was ask... He told your Guru Mahārāja that "Unless we serve meat, they will not come."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? I do not know that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you have once said that he had written to your Guru Mahārāja that letter. I heard that, that "Unless we serve meat." In England, when he was in England.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was in England. Just like these rascals...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ramakrishna Mission.

Prabhupāda: They serve muragī, this chicken prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Chicken prasādam!

Hari-śauri: You told us in Madras that your Guru Mahārāja used to call them the Muragī Mission.

Prabhupāda: Another Godbrother used to say Muragī Mission, Chicken Mission. [laughter] He was so much against this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. So much. He knew all history of Ramakrishna. He became impotent. He was woman-hunter and therefore uneducated. In the village he was simply hunting after this low-class woman. Therefore his brother got him married. When he was married he was impotent. So therefore he planned, "Oh, I see everyone mother. You are my mother." And people said, "Oh, he's so realized that even his wife is his mother." Rascal. Where is that another person in the Vedic culture, Vyāsadeva or..., they are also married, who has called his wife "mother"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone but the wife.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why one should not call a wife a mother? Is that very great advancement? But this rascal was impotent, he had no other alternative, so he manufactured some idea. And people thought, "Oh, he's so devotee of goddess of Kālī that he sees even his wife as mother." This story he told me by Guru Mahārāja personally. He was talking with me privately somewhere, although I was a bad householder. [laughs] He was very kind upon me. And whatever is being done by his blessing, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what time do you take your bath? Because I can get hot..., you know we have a big heater in this building. So for hot water...

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I take...

Hari-śauri: Usually sometime between quarter to one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I make sure there's hot water at that time, in the building?

Hari-śauri: You can put it through the pipe system? Oh, yes. That would be good. Anytime from twelve-thirty on.

[in car]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When the devotees heard about your idea for a neon sign on the top of the building, they all went "Jaya!" They like that idea.

Prabhupāda: Some busy street?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ninth Avenue. Sometime I'd like to show you the garage.

Prabhupāda: On Ninth Avenue there are many grocery shops. Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: Don't you want a lead car?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is the lead car?

Ādi-keśava: They don't know the way; I do. [aside discussion on directions]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go straight on. I want to show Prabhupāda the garage. I'll show you where we have our garage. This whole area, all this brown area, all the way where the yellow stripe is. Big, big. It's huge.

Prabhupāda: Down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Down, the whole downstairs. Ten thousand square foot.

Rāmeśvara: That's the same..., ten thousand square feet is the same size as the book warehouse in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The height is less.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Height is... How high is it, Ādi-keśava?

Ādi-keśava: Ceiling is twenty feet.

Rāmeśvara: Same height.

Prabhupāda: Same height, huh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The rent... This is the middle of Manhattan, only one block from the temple, so we got it for about $3.75 a square foot, very cheap, and on a three year lease, which is also very good.

Prabhupāda: What is this road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tenth Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Our temple is between Eighth and Ninth?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Jayānanda has been working very faithfully.

Prabhupāda: They've come to see what they are doing here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Blow the horn. You want to get out, Prabhupāda?


Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have rented it from the railroad. This whole area is eight hundred dollars, we have rented. First class---electricity, water. It's first class. We can go around this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very strong.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Jayānanda heard what you said about him. He said, "I will never let it happen again."

Prabhupāda: Yes, now it is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at in there, Prabhupāda. This is really strong.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if you keep it very nicely...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other carts are... This one is not yet finished as much as the others. Jayānanda, did you build this cart?

Jayānanda: No, no.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Chicago's old cart. Not the last year's one, an old one. We got it from them; they did not want it anymore. This will be Subhadrā's. They only want one cart, the one they have now. So we called them up and we said, "Oh, don't throw it away, we'll take it."

Rāmeśvara: How tall will they be with the canopies?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty... How tall, Jayānanda?

Jayānanda = Fifty feet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty foot high. These are the ones that Jayānanda and the men have built from scratch here in New York. You can see the powerful wheels. He heard what you had said, and then he decided to make it.

Prabhupāda: As powerful as the other wheels?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More powerful. Look at them, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This is steel. This is steel. He built the carts in Australia. What is your opinion?

Hari-śauri: These are fantastic.

Jayānanda: See, these are like this, flat plate on the outside, then there's a piece of chain that goes around the inside.

Hari-śauri: Amazing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Think this is strong enough, Hari-śauri?

Hari-śauri: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he's covered it with canvas. This has rubber tire, and then it's covered by canvas.

Devotee: ...steel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pretty big carts. These carts have the same mechanism. They go up and down, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is John. He's always helping us with building. He works very hard. Which cart will Prabhupāda ride on? Jayānanda? Which cart will Prabhupāda ride on?

Ādi-keśava: We wanted to know which one. Which one would you like to ride on?

Hari-śauri: Balarāma's cart goes in front?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Jagannātha's was going in front in San Francisco, then Subhadrā's.

Hari-śauri: ...told us Balarāma's is at the front, Melbourne.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, really.

Hari-śauri: And then Subhadrā's, then Jagannātha at the back. That's the way they do it in Purī.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's that cart, Jayānanda?

Jayānanda: This is a little Ratha-yātrā cart from last year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is last year's.

Jayānanda: We use it as an advertisement for Ratha-yātrā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it's a good advertisement. Quite a big improvement from last year to this year.

Prabhupāda: The whole go-down is rented.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, look at the area we get for eight hundred dollars. It's a great deal.

Prabhupāda: Eight hundred dollars per month?

Ādi-keśava: For the whole period, for three months.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Three months. It's very good, because it gives protection for working in the sunshine, and because it's so open there's a lot of air blowing, it's very cool for the workers.

Prabhupāda: What is this factory?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jayānanda, what kind of factory is this?

Jayānanda: Steel. They make sheet metal. It's owned by the railroad company.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another thing we're using it for is we're using this for parking garage also. So we save the money for that, too.

[break] [in car]

Rāmeśvara: No, they have just reduced to one cart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This cart... They only had one cart. This was their old cart. Then last year they built a new cart. So this was just in storage there, not being used.

Prabhupāda: It is very strongly built.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it is first class. So we sent our big truck there, and we picked it up, and we brought it here and assembled it, and now we have three carts. And these carts will be disassembled and kept in the garage. And the nice thing is that we are now on Sixtieth Street and Eleventh Avenue and the festival is on Fifty-ninth and Fifth. Very easy to get there. [break] These are mostly warehouses, Prabhupāda, this part of the city.

Rāmeśvara: The city of New York is the most mismanaged city in the United States. The city government has a big debt. They borrow money from the banks and they cannot pay it back. So they..., the banks were closing the debt, the loans, calling for the loan, and they had no money, so they were firing everyone and there was great unemployment, and finally the United States government had to give them a free gift of money to bail them out. It is the worst management of any city in America. [background discussion on where to drive to] One of the big reasons is because of welfare. They give away free money to so many people in New York who don't want to work.

Prabhupāda: Yes, welfare is actually waste of money. But social construction is so bad they have to give welfare. If they take our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we can stop this welfare money, let them pay.

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage all these millions of people.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

[out of car, walking]

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to engage them, so they just give them free money. Also famous for its labor unions, the most powerful in America. They force the city to pay the highest wages for the garbage men, for school teachers, the highest anywhere in the country. So that's another reason they are in debt so much.

Ādi-keśava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one of our posters for our Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. See what they are doing.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. The highest paid garbage men in America.

Prabhupāda: Still it is unclean. This is subway.

Ādi-keśava: We can stop here.

Prabhupāda: There is no need.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a little corner from [indistinct], Prabhupāda. This is the Plaza Hotel.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you ever heard of it, the Plaza? [break] Growing out of stone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is little crack, they are growing.

Devotee: Even on the roof of the building where we were sitting last night, between the cracks of the bricks on the roof, there were little plants coming out.

Prabhupāda: Between the cracks in the stone. [indistinct background talk between devotees]

[break] [in car]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When Balavanta was running for mayor of Atlanta he met him, so there's a good chance that if he gets elected to be president then that's easy opportunity to see the president.

Prabhupāda: [laughing] What we'll do, seeing him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, right.

Hari-śauri: At least, though, if he's favorable, if he likes us a little, it may give us, ah...

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]

Rāmeśvara: Nobody can imagine what they do in all these office buildings. There are millions of offices.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're going to take a ride down Fifth Avenue.

Hari-śauri: This is the parade route?

Ādi-keśava: Yes. You can see there's no wires, so we don't even have to bring the top down except for the very end, entering into Washington Square Park. [break]

Prabhupāda: He has told that we have got already a copy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Bhāgavatam was here?

Hari-śauri: Where was that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This library. It's the biggest library in the country. Forty-second street. You can go back up on Madison and Park. [break]

Rāmeśvara: ...carts all the way down.

Ādi-keśava: It's fifty-two blocks, so it's going to take us at least two hours.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: About two to three hours.

Hari-śauri: The parade, Ratha-yātrā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two hours. [break]

Prabhupāda: Lord Rāma's? What is this?

Hari-śauri: There's shop there with a sign of Lord Rāma's.

Rāmeśvara: Train station? Grand Central?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Grand Central Station.

Ādi-keśava: You want to go on the upper level and around?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...underneath there is subway.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: About hundred yards below.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, quite far below. There's a beautiful church here, St. Bartholomew's Church.

Hari-śauri: Park Avenue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the Seagram's Building. Yes, this is Dhṛṣṭadyumna's father's building. The whole building, the Seagram's building.

Rāmeśvara: It's a liquor company.

Prabhupāda: Liquor?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His father is the president of the biggest liquor manufacturer in the whole world.

Prabhupāda: And father is liquor, and son is no liquor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Son is sannyāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 375 Park Avenue.

Prabhupāda: Like Prahlāda. [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very big building they have.

Prabhupāda: Other brothers he has got?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he has two other brothers.

Prabhupāda: They are with father?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, yes. One of them is an architect, and the other one is a failure, not doing anything yet. Dhṛṣṭadyumna is the eldest son, though.

Prabhupāda: Eldest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then his father must be young man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His father is about fifty.

Prabhupāda: That's young.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dhṛṣṭadyumna is about twenty-six.

Prabhupāda: That's quite young. [break]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, sorry. He is sorry.

Prabhupāda: Eldest son.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they admit that his life is..., they admit that his character is very much improved. That they admit. But now they'd like him to come back.

Rāmeśvara: And join their business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These posters are from Reverend Moon, advertising his big Yankee Stadium appearance.

Ādi-keśava: Fiasco.

Hari-śauri: It says "God Bless America."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's the title of it, "God Bless America." But who is God? He says "I am God."

Prabhupāda: No, he has taken advantage, that "So many rascals are coming from India, 'God,' why not from the Christian league I become God?" He's taking advantage. He's intelligent man. So many gods are coming from India, why not from Korea?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's the first Korean god.

Rāmeśvara: He's very intelligent. He's big in Korea. Multimillionaire.

Hari-śauri: He makes rifles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has a big factory that makes weapons.

Rāmeśvara: He hates the Communists. He hates them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why the American government likes him. A lot of big politicians in America are backing him because he's anti-Communist and he's a big man in Korea.

Prabhupāda: So he's already a big man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he's an industrialist.

Rāmeśvara: He became famous during the Korean war with the Chinese. He fought against the Chinese, and then he became very wealthy. As a result of that war he became very wealthy. He was selling ammunition.

Prabhupāda: America was in favor of Korea?

Rāmeśvara: They were trying to prevent the Chinese from conquering.

Prabhupāda: During Truman's?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These are the kind of tables we want to put on the balcony. Remember I showed you that place, our patio on the third floor? So I want to put those kind of tables in the restaurant.

Rāmeśvara: Like a snack bar. [break] ...problems in New York is in the schools they cannot control the violence. The students are very violent. They sometimes fight their teachers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was going to school---I grew up in New York, here in Manhattan, twenty years ago probably---and sometimes there would be children's gangs, and they would come in and beat the teachers.

Prabhupāda: That is the... Killed, in the...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In our school one teacher was killed by such a gang.

Rāmeśvara: This is still a big problem. And the teachers are also very militant. They blackmail the city, that "Unless you give us more money, we refuse to..." Then they close the schools. They go on strike. The teachers have joined a union, and they are very militant, they always go on strike. So sometimes the school is closed half the year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ādi-keśa, I want to show Prabhupāda the banner, so maybe you can stop...

Hari-śauri: In a lot of big cities that's a major problem now. They can't get any teachers to teach there because the children are so violent and uncontrollable that the teachers are just too scared to work there.

Prabhupāda: In our gurukula we'll improve. But the parents do not want that their children should be religious, sādhu.

Rāmeśvara: In these schools, the children are given drugs by their schoolmates. Even at an early age, six..., twelve years old, ten years old, they are smoking cigarettes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not only cigarettes, marijuana also.

Rāmeśvara: And all types of drugs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I wanted to show you this banner closely, Prabhupāda, that we have a big banner hanging. This is permanently hanging outside our building. You'll see it shows a picture of a devotee dancing, with "Hare Kṛṣṇa" over it. See?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very attractive. The people can see it. [break] "Founder-Ācārya His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founded 1966."

Prabhupāda: Ah. [end]