Morning Walk , Toronto , 1976-06-21
Hari-śauri: It's recording now.
Indian man: Kṛṣṇa has made lot of things for human beings to enjoy---the trees and rivers and... [break]
Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic version---pūrṇam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation], everything is complete.
Indian man: It says in the Bible that animals were given to the mankind for protection and for service---you can take service from the animals. And they think the slaughtering of an animal is all right on that basis, that God gave the animals to the human beings.
Prabhupāda: And how intelligent they are. I give you my child for your protection, and you cut his throat. And how intelligent you are. Just see. That is the proof. Something is given for protection, and they're cutting the throat. This is their intelligence. [break]
Indian man: ...the article in Back to Godhead there was a question raised, that "What is purpose of life?" And if I'm right, it was stated that the purpose of life is to realize God. Could you kindly explain a little more on that?
Prabhupāda: That I was explaining last night, that human life is meant for understanding what is the goal of life. The goal of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. If they do not go back to home, back to Godhead, then remain here, become a tree. Stand, for five thousand years. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati [Padma Purāṇa]. Two millions you have to pass through. And each species, some thousands of years. And such two millions. So, how many years? Hmm? There are two millions of varieties of vegetables. And each item, if you pass, say hundred years. Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred million.
Prabhupāda: Two hundred millions years only for passing through the vegetables. Then you become, what is called, insects. That is also 1,100,000. In this way you'll get chance again to become a human being. These rascals are wasting, four-wheel dog. [laughter] Dogs are four-legged, and we are four-wheeled. That's all. [laughter]
Indian man: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is everyone has to go through all the 84,000,000 journeys[?], or is that to, like, you know, on his pious or impious karma he might go through only the vegetable class or he might go through only the animal life?
Prabhupāda: That will depend on your karma.
Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one thing in the human nature, that he always thinks that he's the chief, and around the world everything is running around him, and most probably he always can show off that "I am the leader of everything." Why it so? In every person.
Prabhupāda: That is the disease, material disease. That is material disease. Everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa. Nobody wants to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is material disease. Kartāham iti manyate. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā [Bg. 2.37]. Rascal bewildered by false egotism, he's thinking, "I am everything." That is material life. And when by cultivation of knowledge, good association, you come to the conclusion that "I am not everything, Kṛṣṇa is everything; I am His servant," then perfection. Otherwise he's in the māyā-cakra.
Indian man (2): Is this related to the past, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is the material disease. When you contaminate some disease, do not try to find out the history. Treat the disease. That is intelligence. How I got this disease, instead of inquiring, better treat the disease. That is intelligence. Go to the doctor and get treatment and cure it.
Indian man (3): Prabhupāda, karma-yoga, Kṛṣṇa has said, "Do your duty, look after..."
Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is your duty.
Indian man (3): Yes, that's what we are trying to...
Prabhupāda: Know from Kṛṣṇa what is your duty.
Indian man (3): Now, to know this thing, we have to really follow Kṛṣṇa, right?
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all, what you are? Then your duty. Are you a clerk or ordinary orderly or the director or something, something? Then your duty. But if you do not know what you are, then where is your duty?
Indian man (3): But if you know certain things, and if you do your things honestly for Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: No, no. The... You do not know anything. That is your position. You must know what is your position. Then your duty.
Indian man (3): By position you mean in relation to Kṛṣṇa or in relation to the world?
Prabhupāda: No, in relation to the world. In relationship with the world, therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. What is your quality? Then you are classified as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, as a śūdra. Then your duty. First of all you must know what you are, what is your position. Then there is duty.
Indian man (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it right that if you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all the duties are automatically taken care of?
Prabhupāda: All the duties, the summarization of duty = ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ [SB 1.2.13]. There are different duties, but the real duty is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13], whether you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll have done all duties. Ataḥ pumbhiḥ. Because there are different types of duties. But whatever you do, the success is whether by your duty you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful.
Indian man (4): Prabhu, how do you regard the detachment idea?
Prabhupāda: There is no question of detachment. These are all bogus propaganda. You cannot be detached. Duty does not mean detachment. You have to do your duty. There is attachment. Where is the detachment? These are simply bogus propaganda. There cannot be detachment. Detachment means..., real detachment means that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So you have no proprietorship. That is detachment. If you falsely claim, "It is mine," that is attachment, unnecessary. It is not yours.
Indian man (4): Should we not move from attachment to detachment gradually, and try to...
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot do that. Your attachment has to be purified. Just like this land. The Canadians think, "This is my land." But this, when it is purified, it is this land God's land. Then it is purified. And so long you falsely claim "It is my land," that is cause of all trouble.
yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat
tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā
mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam
[Īśo mantra 1]
Just a minute ago we were talking that in Canada there is so much land, and you told me there is so many fertile land. Huh? You told me? But they'll not allow anybody to come. This is wrong position. Why? China or India, there are so many countries overcongested. Let them come. But he's thinking, "It my land."
Indian man (1): They pay the money to a farmer not to grow the wheat here.
Prabhupāda: Just see. This rascaldom is going on in the name of civilization. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1], they do not know. Everything belongs to God, and are all sons of God. So by God's arrangement there is enough land to live, enough land to produce food. They're misusing. Therefore the whole trouble.
Indian man (4): Prabhu, then what that means, what we mean is they should have rsabandutra[?]
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, a rsabandutra[?] means, unless you have got the central point. How we can have? First of all you know Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): They must have a common background, common ground whereby you can...
Prabhupāda: That they haven't got. Common... He is trying to become Kṛṣṇa. So everything is rolling around, as you are... So this is the mistake. He's trying to become center, that foolish rascal. How he's center? Center is Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (4): So the only hope for humanity is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, only hope. Therefore this verse I was explaining.
aprāpya māṁ nivartante
Those who will not take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these rascal will remain in the cycle of birth and death. Instead of taking Kṛṣṇa's instruction, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66], he's trying to become Kṛṣṇa, these rascals. So how there will be peace? Hmm? Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." He's saying, "I am Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I surrender?" This is the difficulty.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is Mr. Sharma, he's our accountant. He works at the University of Toronto. He does all our books here in Toronto to help us.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. [Hindi with Mr. Sharma] Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsa [Cc. Madhya 13.80] = "I'm the servant, servant, servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." And these rascals are learning how to become Kṛṣṇa. Just see. It is impossible. [laughs] But they will try for it. [Hindi]
Indian man (4): Only one thing I just want to clarify, that under human behavior towards the society, honest behavior toward the society, to help the people, to help the neighbors and like that, try to help [indistinct]...
Prabhupāda: First of all, tell me, what is your power to help? You are poor yourself. What you can help? Then why you are talking all...
Indian man (4): No, prabhu, supposing if we see...
Prabhupāda: You cannot help. First of all, you cannot help.
Indian man (4): Right.
Prabhupāda: If you can help, you can simply repeat the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you have no power to help. It is all concoction. Vivekananda, for the last hundred years---daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. He could not do anything. False hope. First of all you must know that you have no capacity to help.
Indian man (4): Right. That is true, prabhu.
Prabhupāda: Then why you propose to help?
Indian man (4): No, but prabhu, how far is it fair that if one is religious, say chanting and regulations and everything he is doing, and on the other hand, he doesn't behave as a good, honest neighbor or friend...
Prabhupāda: That good honest..., you have got some idea of good honest. But because he's chanting, he's all-good.
Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, because he's chanting, sometimes a person get very false ego, that he has become a very big devotee, he's serving the Lord, and he tries to...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, he's on the line of goodness. But those who are not chanting, they're all bad. Do you understand it or not? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. One who is not a devotee of God, he has no good qualification. You may propose that "I am so much good, I am this, I am that," but it is all bogus thing. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12]. He's simply concocting on the mind. And so far a devotee's concerned, even you find some defect in him, he's sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ. Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]. Now I find some defective state---śāstrad bhavati dharmātmā. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. These defects will be out very soon. Don't bother. But because he is devotee, he's sādhu.
Indian man (4): So you mean to say, prabhu, truthfulness and honesty will come after chanting, chanting, chanting.
Prabhupāda: But those who are not devotees, there is no truthfulness at all. Here he has begun truthfulness. But one who is not a devotee, he has no question of truthfulness. He's simply concocting in the mind. Manorathena. And because he's on the mental platform, he'll do all bad things.
Indian man (4): Therefore devotee must try to be honest and truthfulness.
Prabhupāda: Devotee becomes automatically. If he sticks to the devotional principles, he'll become good very soon. Just like he has stopped... Devotee means, just like we say, no illicit sex, no drinking or intoxication, no meat-eating. So he has adopted this, and chanting. That is perfect.
Indian man (4): Prabhu, these things normally we say in India, women or even men, those who are in the village life... Well, I don't say all, but most of them, they obey these things right from the very childhood itself. So...
Prabhupāda: We are jumping to the village.
Indian (4): Well village is a little bit pure life, you know, but in the cities of course people get involved too much in...
Prabhupāda: Pure life, village---doesn't matter village or city. If you become devotee, then pure life. It is not that because one is living in city, therefore he's polluted; one is living in village, no. That is not. Unless one becomes devotee, there is no question of becoming good.
Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, there's a very important question in my mind all the time, that how a Godbrother should treat the Godbrother with great [indistinct] to produce more love of Godhead and to [indistinct] in them?
Prabhupāda: You show example. If other Godbrother is not treating you well, you treat him well. Then it will be right. Why you should deviate, that "This Godbrother is not treating me well, so I shall do also"? Āpani ācari' prabhu jīvera. You treat well. You show the example how to treat his Godbrother. [break] ...Mahāprabhu's teaching,
taror api sahiṣṇunā
kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
[Cc. Ādi 17.31]
So who is treating me good or bad, I don't want to bother about it. Let me become humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. Haribol. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...nice garden, but if anyone wants to live here, the government will not allow. [laughter] "Go to the mill."
Indian man (1): Prabhupāda, a devotee, very often after chanting, why do they develop very, very high... I see a lot of devotees, they falls down back to the māyā. What is the reason?
Prabhupāda: He is not devotee. He's pretending to be devotee. One who is devotee never falls down. There are so many false devotees. He falls down.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda? In 3.4 Bhāgavatam Lord Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of loss, the conditioned soul in the material world when he's identifying with matter.
Devotee (2): Kapiladeva speaks about the feeling of being lost. Is that what the psychologists say is craziness?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Puṣṭa-Kṛṣṇa: The feeling of being lost. Kapiladeva's instructions? He wants to know if the identification with matter is the same thing as craziness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mūḍha. [Sanskrit] What is that verse? [Sanskrit] Everyone is working under illusion of māyā until he comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Indian man (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it better for the gṛhasthas to be self-supporting and living outside the temple? Like somebody working all day and following the regulative principles?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple is meant for rendering service to the Lord. So if anyone is rendering service to the Lord, he can live. But not for sense gratification. Those gṛhasthas who still have desire for sense gratification, they may live outside.
Indian man (5): What about the gṛhastha's duty toward his family, like looking after his family and children? In India, like when you have a daughter you have to get her married and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you have accepted family life, you must be responsible to carry out. Not that I become family man, and all of a sudden I give up everything. No, that is not wanted. But if one is actually advanced, he can give up everything. He has no more duty.
Indian man (5): But the question comes up that you have given a vow against fire at the time of marriage that the husband will look after the wife and the family. Then how does that fit in when you leave the family all of a sudden? Is there not a responsibility to...
Prabhupāda: No no. Not all of a sudden. All of a sudden... Generally you have to discharge the duties of family life, and at the ripe age, when everything is settled up, then you give up the family.
Indian man (5): So is it right that all the responsibility should be cleared up before...
Prabhupāda: You cannot clear up all the responsibility. Therefore up to fiftieth year. After that, whatever is done, that's all. [Sanskrit] But our philosophy is there is no question of giving up this or taking up that. Simply take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Wherever you remain, it doesn't matter---either in family life or in the forest.
Indian man (5): In the vānaprastha āśrama, after fifty years of age, what is the duty? Is it to live in the temple, or devote most of time to Kṛṣṇa, or where the wife comes in then?
Prabhupāda: Temple you should live always. Even if in family life, you must come to the temple. Temple worship is for everyone.
Indian man (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you wrote a lot of books, and I'm very concerned about the books. A lot of devotees, they never read the books, but they're doing the chanting. It will progress them without reading the books? Because they're the most important...
Prabhupāda: But suppose one is illiterate, how he'll read? How he'll read if one is illiterate? That means he has no chance, because he's illiterate? Chanting is sufficient.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda? Is it possible for people in the most animalistic conditions of life such as the Eskimos, who need meat to survive---is it possible for these people to become purified?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ, śudhyanti [SB 2.4.18]. They can be purified, by the guidance of the spiritual master.
Jayādvaita: You've already proved that, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [laughter]
Devotee (4): We're worse than Eskimos.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda? Regarding that answer you gave that somebody falls into māyā that he's pretending to be a devotee? What about the verse in the Bhāgavatam that says if a devotee falls down that he's not to be considered as the fruitive workers or the karmīs, etcetera?
Prabhupāda: Falls down means again when he revives, he'll begin from that point where he fell down.
Devotee (3): Jaya Prabhupāda! [break]
Prabhupāda: ...[indistinct], it is to be understood that polluted.
Satsvarūpa: That's also sinful reactions.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Polluted means sinful. [end]