Morning Walk , Detroit , 1976-06-14

Prabhupāda: ...point out material development of civilization is artificial. It is not meant for that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is patchwork.

Prabhupāda: India has been frustrated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you mention in the First Canto how it was predicted that certain different peoples, they would conquer India. This was predicted in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So these troubles they were foreseeing?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The troubles that India is going through today, they were foreseeing over five thousand years ago, that the Muslims would invade, the Turks?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Englishman would invade. That is also...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Greeks.

Prabhupāda: In the Twelfth Canto. I think Candragupta's name is also... The last emperor of India. [break] ...fighting between the demons and the demigods, the demons brought mountain and it was in fire, the jungle, and it was split by dynamite, and the all the stones fell down on the enemies. Where is that war plan? Bring the mountain on the head of the enemies and split it by dynamite, and it will... [break] This information is there, that dynamite was there, and it was used for breaking mountains. Fighting was taking place. Not in this planet; upper planet.

Hari-śauri: This is in connection with the churning of the ocean?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it actually possible for the demons to win?

Prabhupāda: Sometimes. When there is fighting, both the parties will have chance to win. What is this? [break]

Devotee (1): ...degraded activity in the public parks. Fighting and intoxication and all kinds of nonsense. Just like animals. [break]

Devotee (2): And there were so many people that we decided that next weekend we'll come and distribute magazines and incense here.

Makhanlāl: In the Bhagavad-gītā, Eighteenth Chapter, fifty-fourth verse, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54], it says that the person in brahma-bhūtaḥ realization at once realizes the Supreme Brahman. If the devotee is situated on the platform of the brahma-bhūtaḥ, but he may not necessarily see everything as Brahman, does that mean that his realization is by intelligence and by his activity, or what does that mean?

Prabhupāda: Realization of spiritual identification.

Makhanlāl: Realization of spiritual life?

Prabhupāda: Identity.

Makhanlāl: Identity? [break] Brahman realization for the devotee in the beginning is just that he realizes his constitutional position as servant of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is next. First of all, that "I am not this body." That is Brahman realization.

Makhanlāl: So we may only be partially situated in that realization in our present level of devotional service, in that...

Prabhupāda: You realize or not realize, if you remain on the platform, that is safer[?]. [break] ...in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. [break]

Makhanlāl: ...says that such a person never laments nor desires anything. So...

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you realize that you are servant of Kṛṣṇa, where is lamentation?

Makhanlāl: Due to māyā's influence, a devotee may sometimes materially lament.

Prabhupāda: That you have to struggle. Tapasā brahmacāryeṇa [SB 6.1.13]. That is called tapasya. But if you stick to devotional service, māyā will not be able to touch you.

Makhanlāl: The māyā that harasses the devotee is just mental concoction, then? He should concentrate on just serving?

Prabhupāda: Māyā's harassing, that means you are not in devotional service. It is not concoction; it is fact.

Devotee (3): We're having a lot of trouble distributing books in the airports now.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the difficulty?

Devotee (3): It just seems legal problems. People don't like us there.

Mādhavānanda: People are opposing more. As our movement grows more and more, people want to check.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (3): ...trying to get it open in the terminals, and there's a possibility of maybe getting forty devotees inside the airport to distribute your books.

Prabhupāda: So, that is favorable. [break]

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: ...so powerful, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that all over the country young men are running away from home. We have one fifteen-year-old boy, he left everything after getting a book in a parking lot. Another boy is a sculptor, an artist. He's also run away, seventeen years old. Just like Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, once he was attracted by Lord Caitanya's movement, nothing could keep him at home. So all the young men of America, as they read your books, will come and join us.

Prabhupāda: Our books are prescribed as textbook in Hamburg University.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Eastern Berlin.

Prabhupāda: East Berlin. As Sanskrit text.

Devotees: Jaya.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda? When we're distributing on this program, we go to very small towns where people are not very much exposed to the degradedness of the big cities, and we're having great success with the people because they are a little more innocent. But we're having a problem with this other group that goes around, and they do saṅkīrtana just like us, but for māyā. And then when we go in the parking...

Prabhupāda: They chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?

Devotee (3): No.

Prabhupāda: Then, that is not possible. [laughter]

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They'll not last.

Devotee (3): But Śrīla Prabhupāda, they mistake us. When we go up and approach them with our books, they think, "Oh, you are this rascal." They know he's a cheater. And it's causing a lot of difficulty with our distribution. I was just wondering what we can do about it.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Satsvarūpa: This Moon group?

Devotee (4): Moon, yes. Interfering with some...

Mādhavānanda: Preaching is never easy.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda said on one tape that... Somebody said it was difficult. He said, "When there's fighting, you can't expect it to be easy." [break]

Makhanlāl: There are many different levels of pure devotional service?

Prabhupāda: Pure devotional service is one. So long you are not on the pure platform, there are many. [break]

Makhanlāl: ...between the neophyte devotee who is following the principles...

Prabhupāda: Neophyte devotee is not on the topmost platform. He's learning. Neophyte means learning. [loud foghorn blowing in background]

Makhanlāl: The neophyte devotee who's following the principles of sādhana-bhakti is still considered pure devotee?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Makhanlāl: So at different levels of advancement of pure devotional service.

Satsvarūpa: Prabhupāda once gave the example of a mango, that when the mango is raw, it's still a mango. Then it becomes ripe---also a mango. So pure devotional service is different when we begin.

Prabhupāda: So raw condition and ripe condition is not the same. The mango is the same.

Devotee (1): The captain of that boat must know that you're here on the island today, because those whistles that he just blew were salutes. It's a master salute from the best man to the best man. He must know that you are here today.

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Makhanlāl: In the Sixth Canto of the Bhāgavatam you made a statement that if a devotee chants the holy name even once inoffensively, this protects him eternally. Is it possible for a devotee...

Prabhupāda: Why you take advantage of chants one? Why not sixteen? Opportunist. [laughter] Not devotee.

Makhanlāl: If one has even some small amount...

Prabhupāda: This material calculation is not made by a devotee. When one is devotee, he'll chant more and more. He'll aspire, "If I could get millions of tongues and trillions of ear, then I could finish. That is devotee. And one is thinking how to finish it by chanting once, he's not devotee. That is neophyte stage. Therefore the regulation is you must chant sixteen rounds at least. Because he'll simply try to avoid it by his so-called intelligence.

Makhanlāl: It's possible for even a neophyte to chant offenselessly?

Prabhupāda: Not possible, but he has to do it. This is offense, to think that "I have chanted once; my all sinful activities are now neutralized." This is offense. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. This is the offense. [break]

Makhanlāl: Chanting, following the orders of the spiritual master...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. No calculation.

Makhanlāl: ...is that considered offenseless chanting?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes. You follow strictly the instructions. If you commit offense, how it is offenseless?

Makhanlāl: It's considered offenseless if, chanting, if one follows the orders of the spiritual master carefully?

Prabhupāda: There may be offense. You should go on chanting. That will be adjusted as you advance in chanting. Harer nāma harer nāma, harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Simply go on chanting. We shall see later on what is offense and not offense. [laughter] Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, not for any profit. But go on serving Him. That's all. Material calculation, "Now, this much I have profited..."

[break] [in car]

...there is no animal?

Devotee (1): This jungle?

Prabhupāda: There are some deers.

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Yes. I just saw a raccoon just now when I was getting the car. There are some in there.

Prabhupāda: There is no monkey?

Ambarīṣa: [laughter] No. [break]

Satsvarūpa: No monkey in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Acchā? [break]

Satsvarūpa: "Nature Center," it says.

Prabhupāda: Nature?

Satsvarūpa: Nature. You know what that is, Ambarīṣa?

Ambarīṣa: No, I don't know. I have no idea. [break]

Prabhupāda: Money [indistinct] got monkey.

Hari-śauri: It's a bit odd. They're busy building new attractions for the park, but they can't even keep the place clean. Everything is completely dirty and run down. No one will want to come anyway. They do that, though. They have a certain amount of things that they construct new so that the people will be thinking, "Oh, our taxes have been spent for our benefit," like this. It's to make a show. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...is Canada?

Ambarīṣa: No, this side over here.

Devotee (1): Way over there.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Satsvarūpa: That's the Detroit Yacht Club. Boat owners. [break] ...by some Catholic monks who were keeping some drug rehabilitation. They are leasing it from us. We still have a lease to the owner. So they are subleasing it. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...to stop drug habit?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They have... People who are addicted, they come and live there voluntarily and say "I'd like to try to stop." They call it "half-way house," because they are half still addicted, but they're trying to stop. So maybe six of such addicts are living...

Prabhupāda: Only six.

Satsvarūpa: Yes, not many. Here's their place, right here. And some monks live there, and somehow or other they try to get them to stop.

Prabhupāda: Which year I came first? Bhagavān was in charge.

Satsvarūpa: I'm not sure.

Ambarīṣa: II think it was six years ago from last year. So that would be '69.

Prabhupāda: From that time I'll see, here is the signboard "For Sale."

Satsvarūpa: Same one.

Prabhupāda: No one is purchasing. Why? I suggested Bhagavān that "Why don't you purchase this land?" I see the same signboard is still going on.

Ambarīṣa: Nobody wants to buy property on this street. It's very dangerous and rundown.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, in that quarter where we have got our temple, the same position. Therefore we got cheap. [laughs] Otherwise, it is very costly building.

Satsvarūpa: We did not even want to take you down there last year to see it. We thought it is out of the question. And you said, "There's nothing to be afraid of. Just hold kīrtana there."

Prabhupāda: Yes. People are coming. Yesterday many gentlemen. Gradually you purchase that side land.

Mādhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we had so many people yesterday. We had about two hundred people in the temple room and three hundred people outside waiting in line for prasāda.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Satsvarūpa: They were all wandering around the grounds. It was very pleasant. So many people taking here and there, preaching.

Prabhupāda: That house is exactly suitable for our purpose in every way. It was Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Hari-śauri: Even the people that passed on the boat stopped. We preached to them as well.

Mādhavānanda: I was thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it would be nice to have dioramas.

Prabhupāda: First of all, give some signboard.

Mādhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then dioramas.

Mādhavānanda: All right. [end]