Morning Walk , Honolulu , 1976-05-30

Prabhupāda: ...when between our activities and general people's activities.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The result is different.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hari-śauri: Our activities are liberating, and their activities are entangling.

Śukadeva: The difference in our activities is that because we see everything as Kṛṣṇa's energy, we feel the material world is never disturbing to us. Whereas for the karmīs, the material world is always very disturbing for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they want that disturbance. He's trying to be happy, but they do not know what is eternal happiness. We're also trying for happiness, but our aim is eternal happiness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think that eternal happiness means the same happiness that we experience in the material world, but it lasts forever, because they cannot conceive of a different quality of blissfulness.

Prabhupāda: This is difference. One is eternal; one is temporary and miserable. Although it is so-called happiness, it is temporary. At any moment it is finished. Actually there is no happiness. Still, even they consider this is happiness, that is temporary. You cannot enjoy. At any moment you'll be finished. Just like the surfers = they're enjoying happiness. At any moment they can be finished.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Danger also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any moment.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So there's anxiety in all of the happiness in this world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt [SB 7.5.5]. Because they have accepted something which is not happiness, temporary, they're always full of anxiety. This is the nature. The bird flying, anxiety, "Oh, so many men are coming." He's not in peace. He was eating something; as soon as he sees so many... "Oh, away," flying. So anxiety. Samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Asat. Asat means temporary. The Vedic injunction is asato mā sad gamaya. "Don't stay in asat. Go to the sat, which is permanent." Asato mā sad gamaya. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. "Don't remain in darkness, go to the light." Any knowledge is imperfect. Not knowledge. Ordinarily they want danger [inaudible]. The same Vedic... Asato mā jyotir gamaya. [break]

Śukadeva: ...that they are satisfied with the knowledge that it's given in most religious books, because they say that...

Prabhupāda: Where is religious book?

Śukadeva: Bible.

Prabhupāda: All speculation. Claims only. [break] ...repeatedly, religion means orders of God. If you do not know who is God... If you do not know what is government, then what is government law?

Śukadeva: The world religions are not presented very scientifically.

Prabhupāda: Many religions. God is one. Religion is one. If you do not know God, then you do not know religion. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...possible, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that for some reason or another, in the Old Testament, God would have said that because of the circumstances you live in, you should eat cows. Because this is what we find in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it possible that somehow or another at that particular time and place, God would have said "Eat cows"? Because in Bhagavad-gītā we find Kṛṣṇa clearly says go-rakṣya, cow protection. And that instruction would also be eternal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Go-rakṣya, the point is that cow's milk is very important. Therefore specifically mentioned go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "Don't eat meat." It is not clearly said that meat-eating is forbidden. But meat-eating is tāmasika, prāmedya[?]. But He's speaking of go-rakṣya for our special material benefit, that if we protect the cows, we can have the facility of drinking milk, which will help us in keeping our health in order and developing very nice brain tissues to understand spiritual subject matter. Fish-eaters, they're all dull. They cannot understand finer philosophy of life. Meat-eating, not good. But the śūdras and the less than śūdras, they eat, but for them there's lower animals, not cows.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These people, they think that if someone is inspired by God, then their word is the word of God. Therefore they can write all kinds of things, and they put the label on it that "This was spoken by God through me."

Prabhupāda: Hearing directly from Him. Which one is better? Directly hearing from Him, or by some inspiration?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hearing directly, naturally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is true. By sentiment you can say "I am inspired." But hear directly, then there is no question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People sometimes ask, "If Bhagavad-gītā was spoken by Kṛṣṇa and it was recorded by Vyāsadeva in the Mahābhārata, was Vyāsadeva actually present there on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, or did he see it by revelation?"

Prabhupāda: No. He could hear. Just like something's happening ten thousand miles away, you can record it by modern machine. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...mercy he was able to... [break]

Prabhupāda: Three millions miles, sun is, eh?

Hari-śauri: That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: So from so far distant place the heat is coming, and there is no brain behind it?

Hayagrīva: It takes five minutes for the sunlight to reach us, and light travels at, what, 193,000 miles a second?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: 197.

Hayagrīva: Something like that. I don't know. Whatever it is.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, such a wonderful things is there, and there is no brain behind it? Is it very reasonable proposal? It has come automatically. There is a chunk. Childish.

Śukadeva: Because it's too much beyond their conception, they say that it's simply imagination.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Devotee: They say that simply because it's too much beyond their conception...

Prabhupāda: It's a fact. You see the heat and light. It is not imagination. So who arranged so much heat and light? That is the question. It is not imagination. We have to manufacture a small bulb. It requires a big, big factory's brain. And this has come by chunk? Nonsense. And you have to accept it? These crazy fellows propose, and we have to accept. [break]

Śukadeva: ...they say that simply the universe always was, and that it always will be.

Prabhupāda: Whatever is by nature, there is brain behind. That is the proposal. Why there is, that doesn't matter. But it will continue. [break] World is and will continue. That's a fact. But who made it? That is the question.

Devotee: Karāndhara and I were at a scientists' meeting, and he used that argument with the scientists. He said, "The universe always has been." So Karāndhara used your argument that "Yes, the sun has been there, and the sun rays are there along with it. Still, the sun is the source of the sun rays." The scientists could not answer. And everybody in the crowd applauded.

Prabhupāda: What they will answer? Simply speculator, misleading men. That's all.

Śukadeva: Well the next proposition is that if God is there, then let Him stay there, and we are here, let us stay here. Why do we have to be concerned with Him?

Prabhupāda: But without sun, you rascal, you'll die. If there is no sun, you'll die. Therefore you must be obliged, feeling only that God is giving sun, you're living. God is so kind that you're given sun so that you can live. So you must be obliged to God. Jāyante bhūtānti..., bhūtāni jayante [Taittirīya Upaniṣad 3.1]. So saṁsanti, saṁkleśa śanti.[?] You are living on mercy of God. You're so ungrateful, you are so rascal, you do not give Him thanks. [break] ...even the sun. In this world tax collector comes. If you say, "Why shall I give you tax? It is already there. It was before my coming. Now I was there, and still there. Why you're asking me tax?" Can you say like that? "Oh, it was already there." There or there, if you enjoy, you must pay tax.

Śukadeva: That is why they're having so many revolutions, because they do not like to be under the control of the government, they figure that "Now we can have so many revolutions."

Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means the Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta[?]. If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are sufferer. Just like this Korea, Vietnam---sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary men. This revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're sufferer, this way or that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they were the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing. [break]

Śukadeva: ...very much burdened, because they have some obligation to God. So therefore now they want to... They consider it an obligation.

Prabhupāda: Obligation you must have. That I have already said, that you have obligation to the state, you must pay tax. Otherwise you are criminal. So obligation must be there. If somebody is giving you protection, you must be obliged. If you don't feel obliged, then you'll be punished.

Hari-śauri: Gratitude is a sign of intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. [break] ...also. The excess grain they are throwing into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, starvation. [break] ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you just keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it, everything = "Oh, I've got it free. Let me take away." But the birds, they're under natural law. They know, "Ah, I have finished. I have got my belly filled up. I don't require any more." So God has given everything sufficiently. If every man takes whatever he wants absolutely, then there is no difficulty. That is your complication. But why there should be fight? Father's property of every son. He'll take as much as he requires. Accept father, His property, and take as much as you require. Don't take more. That is real communism. So where is that communism? Who has it? [break] ...philosophers. The material nature, the mother; and God is the father; and we are all children. That's all. Plain truth. [break] ...accept this philosophy?

Śukadeva: The sane people, the sane persons, they will accept.

Prabhupāda: That means there is no saintly person; all rogues. [break] ...objection. You have to accept some father; otherwise how you can exist?

Śukadeva: The objection is that man wants to be completely free.

Prabhupāda: He cannot be free.

Hari-śauri: Well, like Freud said, that a child may be under the protection of the father, but eventually the child has to grow up and go out and face the harsh, cruel world.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? That is his folly. If he remains obedient to the father, then he'll be happy.

Hari-śauri: Hmm. If you're already in a good situation, why create a bad one?

[in car]

Prabhupāda: Yes. You be obedient to the father, and enjoy father's property. What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: They want to enjoy it for themselves.

Prabhupāda: You cannot enjoy. What you cannot enjoy if there is no water, if there is no sunshine and there is no trees, there is no...? Then how you can enjoy? This is given by father. You are already enjoying the father's property. Why you are so much ungrateful?

Hari-śauri: They haven't yet understood that the supply will be restricted if they don't behave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be. That... They must wait for the day.

Hayagrīva: They call that the energy crisis.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Hayagrīva: They call that the energy crisis.

Prabhupāda: There will be crisis, and they will suffer. That's all. Call whatever by name, there will be crisis. [break] Nature is the mother, God is the father, and you are children. Arrangement everyone knows, that "My existence depends on my father and mother. Without father and mother I could not have seen this world." Now how one can deny father and mother?

Hari-śauri: Yes, but they say that one's existence doesn't continue to depend on the father and mother. That at a certain stage one has to break away from the father and mother.

Prabhupāda: That continues. Beginning is father and mother taking care. So it continues = you have the care of father. That is your fault. Therefore you suffer.

Hari-śauri: But practically speaking, we can see that at a certain stage the children have to take care of the father and mother, and not the other way around.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That's all right. Grown-up children will take care. But the beginning is that without your parents' care you could not succeed. You would have died.

Hari-śauri: This is Freud's argument, that at a certain stage he can leave that care and venture out for himself.

Prabhupāda: He can leave the father's care, but how can he deny father?

Hayagrīva: He denies the father. He denies the God the father. He says that's a wish fantasy for...

Prabhupāda: Fantasy? Father is not fantasy. He is fact. You are grown up. You can leave the protection of the father. But how can you deny father? Then you are a rascal. It is not good to live independent of father. If the father is rich, opulent, very kind, very merciful, why shall I leave? A father is generally, even though he's personally a bad man, he's still, he's kind, merciful to the son. That he is, actually. A rogue, he loves---just like Ajāmila. He was a rogue, but he was taking care of the youngest child. This is nature. We study that even the father is a rogue, he's kind to his children. So practically he does all nonsense things, but giving protection to the family. So why should he give up the protection of father? When we say father, means all kindness, all mercifulness, all taking care is there. Immediately. In Bengali there is a word, puputra davitra hoy, kumāra[?] A son may be bad, but a mother is never bad. Son may be bad, mother and son... Son may be bad, but the mother or father is never bad. The father may also be bad, but mother is never bad.

Hari-śauri: Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says when one instance, though...

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is exception in everything.

Hari-śauri: Oh.

Prabhupāda: But the thing is, father and mother is always kind. That is natural. Extraordinarily, the mother may kill. That is another thing. Crazy. But if somebody's coming to kill his child, mother gives protection = "First of all kill me." [break] So artistic competition, subject matter was that a child is being killed before the mother, and the artist has to give expression of the face. So different artists gave expression of the face of the mother when the child is being killed before her. So one artist made a picture like this. [holding hands over his eyes] He got the first prize.

Hari-śauri: She couldn't look.

Prabhupāda: He got the first prize. Yes. You cannot express what mother's feeling is. Best thing is not to see.

Hayagrīva: That's the, ah... There are many famous paintings of Christ on the cross and his mother before..., his mother was standing before the cross.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mother cannot see it. Impossible. Better close the eyes. That is artist's realized. How a man can paint the expression of the mother, his child being killed? It is not possible. [break] ...lesson by natures' study. Generally... Generally means that is natural = if one is under the protection of father and mother he must be happy. So why shall I give up the protection of father and mother? When my father is quite able, quite rich, and everything complete... Not that the poor father. [break] ...plainly declare, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. [break] ...practically see. I came to your country without any of these things. You saw.

Hayagrīva: You what?

Prabhupāda: When I came to your country first, I had no center, I had no... But who has provided all these hundred temples, big, big palaces, temples? Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham [Bg. 9.22]. To remain under the protection of Kṛṣṇa you get so much facility. Why not be grateful to Kṛṣṇa? [break] Practically I was loitering on the street, and He has given me so many sons, so many houses, so many protection. Shall I not feel grateful? Is it not my duty? What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa gives everything, and "No, no, I don't believe in God. God is dead." All rascals. All rascals. Nonsense rascals. Who denies God, he is a nonsense rascal, immediately. Mūḍha. [end]