Morning Walk , Melbourne , 1976-04-21

Prabhupāda: They'll never accept it. But if they simply accept chanting, it will work. [tape of Prabhupāda chanting Govindam prayers in background] [break] ...say on these big, big buildings, but chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Gurukṛpā: Sthāne sthitāḥ śruti-gatāṁ tanu-vāṅ-manobhiḥ [SB 10.14.3].

Prabhupāda: If you make condition that you stop this, it will be failure. And it is not possible.

Gurukṛpā: I don't think you did like that in the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurukṛpā: In the beginning you just asked everyone to chant, and naturally they wanted to do more after.

Prabhupāda: And if they chant, gradually they'll be purified. [chants japa] [break] ...you take another body, you will greet... This philosophy does not appeal to the Westerners. Eh? I think so. "Oh, what nonsense this is, speaking?" Eh? Do they not think like that?

Gurukṛpā: Yes, they do.

Prabhupāda: But that is the actual fact.

Devotee (1): This philosophy's alien to everything they've heard, so it's different than everything they've heard.

Prabhupāda: No, no, the... A fact is there. Why it is alien?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, the Western religions have taught that whatever you do in this lifetime will determine whether you go to heaven or hell, and there's no second chance.

Prabhupāda: So... So they are not afraid of going to hell? There are two alternatives = either heaven or hell. But if he's going to hell?

Gurukṛpā: That's why they have confession.

Prabhupāda: Oh, finished, everything.

Devotee (2): Contract.

Prabhupāda: How he...?

Gurukṛpā: Like my father is very sinful, but he would always say, "The good Lord is protecting me." He would always say, "God, God," but he never would follow anything. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...wars? Why...? Why the God does not stop the wars? And they are so much afraid of war. What is the answer?

Gurukṛpā: Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti [SB 5.5.4]. They are mad for sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: No. That is all right, but God... Your father says Lord will protect, but when there is atomic bomb, why He does not protect?

Gurukṛpā: Well, up to now He's protected.

Prabhupāda: He is protected. Others are not protected. So his term has not yet come. But what is the answer, that "Lord has become your obedient servant to protect. And when He does not?" Actually, He does not. The... In Europe they are very, very much afraid of war, next war. You know that? It becomes a terrible fright for them. Therefore war was not declared. They are very much frightened. They have suffered two big world wars. So why the God did not protect them? [break] So cow dung philosophy. Cow dung philosophy you know? That one cow dung is just passed through, and the other cow dung is being burned. So this cow dung is laughing, "Oh, you are burned." [laughter] He does not know that when the..., she will be burned. She will be dried up; she will be burned. So your father's logic is like that, "I am protected," laughing at the death of others. Cow dung philosophy.

Gurukṛpā: I wouldn't even give him cow dung. Too good for him. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...gobar hase. Gobar means just fresh cow dung. And she is laughing. And the dry cow dung, he is burning. Ghute pore gobar hase. This is little logic is very good.

Devotee (1): Some people think, "I will never grow old and die."

Prabhupāda: Kim āścaryam ataḥ param.

ahany ahani lokāni
gacchanti yama-mandiram
śeṣaḥ sthitam icchanti
kim āścaryam ataḥ param


That is the eighth wonder. [break]

Gurukṛpā: ...yesterday that in India even a simple village man, he has no material affluence, and still he can understand he is not this body. But here they are big, big learned philosophers, and they cannot understand the first thing.

Prabhupāda: But how they received, eh? You were present. They came to receive = "Oh, it is our great fortune you have come." And in your country, it is trespassing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was when we were in the field in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very poor farmers came up very nicely to greet Prabhupāda.

Devotee (1): The Western people want to think they're the body. Otherwise how can they enjoy all their technology?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Devotee (1): They want to think they're the body. They don't want to hear that "I'm not the body," because if they're not in illusion, they can't try and enjoy so much the things of the West.

Prabhupāda: That means foolish, less intelligent.

Gurukṛpā: We are walking across everyone's field to go the river, and they are saying, "Haribol!"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: Here they are coming with dogs.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fences.

Gurukṛpā: Especially if it's a devotee, they'll be more eager to shoot. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...foreign or this, a small river. [break]

Devotee (2): 1717. Captain Cook.

Gurukṛpā: He's the same one that went to Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gurukṛpā: You know, and they never saw a white man there before. So the natives there in Hawaii were very enamored to see such a big white man, so they took him as God, and they were worshiping him. And one day...

Prabhupāda: Captain Cook?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. And one day he was walking across the rocks and he hit his foot on a rock and he began to bleed. When they saw the blood, they said, "He is not a God. He is just like us." So they killed him and ate him.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. Killed him?

Gurukṛpā: Yeah, they killed him and ate him.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gurukṛpā: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: He was eaten?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. [laughter] He was taking advantage of their ignorance. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...these original Hawaiians, they were man-eaters.

Gurukṛpā: Yes.

Devotee (1): No, they weren't. They just ate him. He had been there a couple of times, so they became suspicious when he came back. He had been exploiting them. [break]

Gurukṛpā: ...were so worried, but this country is so big, and there's only twelve million people. More people live in New York City than in this whole country. And they say "overpopulation."

Prabhupāda: They would not allow.

Gurukṛpā: Yes, they don't allow.

Devotee (3): They have the "White Australia policy."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (3): "White Australia policy." [break]

Prabhupāda: ...Chinese man, Indians, they will come in large number. But they will not allow. That is the difficulty.

Gurukṛpā: There's more cows in this country than people.

Prabhupāda: They are killing?

Gurukṛpā: They are eating them.

Prabhupāda: And other countries, they are starving for want of milk. Therefore I say the United Nation simply barking dogs. What is the value if they cannot adjust? United Nation, all the nations should take advantage all the facilities offered, but that they will not allow. And they are named "United Nation." Just see. Farce.

Devotee (1): In New Zealand they have a hundred million tons of surplus milk powder, and they can't sell it, so they decided to feed it to the pigs. They could send it all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Why not take it free and send it to India? [break] ...of the world. Everything is sufficiently there, but still, some are starving and some are enjoying, for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Gurukṛpā: The rascals, they try to blame everything on Kṛṣṇa by saying, "Why is Kṛṣṇa letting people starve?"

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving them sufficient. They are mismanaging. Still, Kṛṣṇa is still bad. Envious. Kṛṣṇa created this earth. Did He say, "This is for the Australians. This is for the Americans"? Did He say? Why you are keeping so much land as "Australia"? That is also Kṛṣṇa's fault? Australia was never given to the Englishmen. They came and they, by force they took it. So similarly America, the land was there.

Devotee (3): They call this colonization, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That's all.

Devotee (3): Exploiting.

Gurukṛpā: Now they're dividing up the booty, fighting over it.

Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." [laughs] The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in... Now they are making laws, morality.

Devotee (1): They have a saying, "Honor among thieves."

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] This has been named [indistinct], kaitava, simply cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. The duplicity, hypocrisy, is there completely rejected.

Gurukṛpā: Kṛṣṇa is a better cheater, though. He will cheat them in the end.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not cheater. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is so powerful that anyone who is a cheater, he will be cheated, that's all. Automatically. [break] If you infect some disease, you'll have to suffer, automatically. It is not that the disease has to be injected. No. Because you have infected, you'll suffer. The same law is there = you have done this sinful---you'll suffer that. That is the cycle of birth and death. You have created mentality; you'll become the same animal, and you suffer. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya [Bg. 13.22]. [break] ...very clear. We have seen this cloud, extraordinary.

Devotee (2): They can also...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The horn. The horn[?].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (2): So it's very dirty river.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee (3): They say it is the upside-down river. It is more blue on the bottom than it is on the top.

Devotee (2): In factories they put all of their waste into the river. [break]

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, last night you were describing how people serve their dogs. And now, in the Western countries, they have restaurants where you can take your dog, and he sits at the table with you and they serve a meal for him. And they have catering services. You can call up, and they will bring a special meal to your dog, so he can eat at his home. They have beauty parlors for dogs---everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. [break] ...all the centers, then how many days it takes?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: To visit all of our centers in the world?

Prabhupāda: No, Europe, America. That is world round.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About three months if you stayed one day in each center.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. One day only?

Gurukṛpā: Thirty-five days.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, no, to visit each center and stay there for some time.

Gurukṛpā: Some time?

Prabhupāda: "Some time" means five to seven days.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Say average, six days.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: At least a half a year---six months, seven months.

Prabhupāda: So, so much time.

Gurukṛpā: Some of the temples are very small, though.

Prabhupāda: No, average...

Gurukṛpā: They can come to the big temple. Like here we have three centers. They all come here. Say the big ones in America, there's about six, six, seven big temples which the others can go to. They have facility to accommodate them. Then six or seven temples would be about a month and a half.

Prabhupāda: And similarly six and seven there in Europe.

Gurukṛpā: Europe, there are... England, France and let's say Germany. No, that's big. Say about...

Prabhupāda: Switzerland.

Gurukṛpā: ...four or five weeks. Altogether it's eleven weeks, maybe even two and a half, three months.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think you were possibly wanting to stop in Tehran this year on the way back to India?

Prabhupāda: Hmm, yes.

Devotee (2): We have word from the Melbourne City Council that they intend now not to let us have our annual Rathayātrā festival.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (2): They want to stop our Rathayātrā festival.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Devotee (2): In Melbourne. We have got official letter from the City Council, and they are saying that we need not apply anymore.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That?

Gurukṛpā: So we will make propaganda several months before the festival.

Prabhupāda: No, you can go to the court.

Devotee (2): They are claiming we make too much mess on the streets after the festival, too many flowers on the streets.

Prabhupāda: So it is a festival. There must be crowd. You have no festival? Unfortunate.

Gurukṛpā: They have festival, and it's beer cans, not flowers.

Prabhupāda: So you must fight to the court. How they can stop? It is our religious function.

[pause] [break]

Prabhupāda: ...to curb down this movement. In Europe, America, Australia...

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...[indistinct]

[in car]

Gurukṛpā: Things are to stop their farms.

Prabhupāda: I think so. They have gone deliberately. We are against cow-killing, so if the movement increases, then their cow-killing may be jeopardized.

Gurukṛpā: Then they'd have to close many farms. On the grounds that milk causes hepatitis...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: ...they'd have to close many farms. The government gives aid to so many different groups, but they will not give any aid to our group, although we are doing the most work.

Prabhupāda: What is the reason?

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Gurukṛpā: No, we are too much revolutionary for them, our lifestyle, everything.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not like this movement.

Gurukṛpā: Just like those people that came yesterday. They could appreciate our movement, but if they felt that we jeopardized their job or something of that nature, then they would go against us. 'Cause we are very small, but if we became very popular movement, so...

Prabhupāda: Then what to do?

Gurukṛpā: Go on with our work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: We are here to please Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Gurukṛpā: ...not to please them.

Prabhupāda: One thing immediately inform Rāmeśvara. In the Bhagavad-gītā yesterday they have edited "cattle-raising."

Gurukṛpā: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: But not cattle-raising. Cattle-raising means to grow and killing. That is the... Means the rascals, they have edited.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and we're.... [interference]

Prabhupāda: And "protection of cows," clearly.

Gurukṛpā: Chapter Eighteen, Bhagavad-gītā, that the vaiśyas work...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: Ah, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Immediately inform them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I noticed that also. I thought it was strange, some time back. [break]

Prabhupāda: Hayagrīva edited. He thought "cattle-raising." Not "cattle-raising," but the word... There... It is mistranslation. It is go-rakṣya, "giving protection to the cows." Especially mentioned, go-rakṣya, not otherwise. The animal-eaters may take other animals, but not cow. They can take the pig, goats, lambs, rabbits, so many others, if they at all want to eat meat. Birds, these so many. There is no such mention that "Animals should be protected." No. "Cows should be protected." That is Kṛṣṇa's order. [break] They have decided to kill the cow. They have decided, "No brain. Eat." And our prayer is go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, "to do good to the brāhmaṇas and the cows." Actually it is revolutionary to the modern age. But how it is possible we say otherwise? That Bon Mahārāja came and said. Right? Am I right? When Bon Mahārāja here... When our students said something, "Oh, that you cannot say. That you cannot say." He said like that.

Gurukṛpā: Yeah?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: We can say; you cannot say.

Prabhupāda: He's such a rascal.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: [indistinct] says the devotees... We're preaching along the lines that we're preaching, and he was saying, "You cannot say this"?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Gurukṛpā: Just like we don't say, "You are a rascal." We say, "Kṛṣṇa says you are a rascal."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: "So you are saying Kṛṣṇa cannot say?"

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīm [Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4]. He's looking for some following.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Gurukṛpā: He cannot hit the heart.

Prabhupāda: He was begging, "Give me. Give me transportion check." Who is the rascal that he'll give him transportation check? What he is? But he is such a fool, he's begging, "Give me transportation check." Why they'll give you? Then what benefit they'll derive? But he has no common sense to think.

Gurukṛpā: That is what I think this disease is with the Siddha's group. They are looking for followers, and they do not preach in your style because they would not attract people.

Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara's group?

Gurukṛpā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara Svāmī?

Gurukṛpā: No, Siddha-svarūpa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Siddha-svarūpa, oh.

Gurukṛpā: They are after followers, and they do not speak strongly, for then people would go away.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In one sense it's also confirmed by Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet, sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur... [Brs. 1.2.4].

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That "First of all help people to think of Kṛṣṇa, and then later on, the rules and regulations..."

Gurukṛpā: But we follow in the footsteps... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We must follow what the spiritual master is doing. We cannot create our own way. Then we will not be successful.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's true, but...

Gurukṛpā: That is their idea. They have created their own way to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that idea is there. They are thinking of their own way. That is bad. We have got so much..., so many literatures. They are printing their own literature and... That is disturbing, yes. What he'll prepare? He's not a liberated person. He's thinking, somebody said, that "I'll give my interpretation on Bhāgavata." If these things are going, they are... It is against our principles. [break]

Gurukṛpā: You know how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore I follow. I don't even know what Kṛṣṇa is. I'm just trying to follow. Therefore that will be successful.

Prabhupāda: That is my preaching. What Kṛṣṇa said, you say as it is. Don't change. How you can give interpretation? And if he thinks that he can give another interpretation, what is this nonsense? Then he's not following guru or Kṛṣṇa, both. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. One has to receive the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. Through guru, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Gurukṛpā: If they go on like this, can this be considered sampradāya-vihīna ye mantras te viphalaṁ mataḥ [Padma Purāṇa]? That is, their mantra is not so effective if people are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. [break] [end]