Morning Walk , Bombay , 1976-04-13

Prabhupāda: We have already constructed for our residential quarters. That is already there, very big. Such a big building is not there in that district.

Indian man (1): [Hindi]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually, Prabhupāda is doing everything. We are simply like puppets. He tells us what to do. Transcendental management.

Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? Just in Bombay, what you are constructing, the gate, are they going to be like another Indian temples, only gates? Will they look like a bigger temple?

Dr. Patel: You mean those... [Hindi] In south we have got those temples, gates. That is only common in southern India but not in anywhere else. Gopurams.

Prabhupāda: Gopurams.

Dr. Patel: Gopurams are not found anywhere else.

Indian man (2): [Hindi]

Prabhupāda: [Hindi with guests] ...Anusvāri. [Hindi] Raṅganātha temple.

Dr. Patel: Raṅganātha temple is in Vṛndāvana or in south?

Prabhupāda: No, original, south. Here in Vṛndāvana also there is...

Dr. Patel: That was the temple where this, I mean, Rāmānujācārya, they would... That is Śrī Raṅgapuram. [break]

Prabhupāda: Not at all. It is a business.

Dr. Patel: People give them money.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that money is utilized for business. They are so businessman that people go and sacrifice their hair, and they are selling.

Dr. Patel: That I know. They are selling hair to foreign countries. Selling hair.

Prabhupāda: And they are investing money for so many business, not for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: No, they're establishing colleges and Sanskrit...

Prabhupāda: But college... College is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Sanskrit Vidyālaya and Vedic institutions. They have one or two.

Indian (3): [Hindi]

Dr. Patel: You have gone for darśana? That side?

Prabhupāda: We met station platform, means [indistinct]. That is another thing[?].

Dr. Patel: Otherwise for common people, it is very difficult. You would reach [indistinct] after twelve hours or thirteen hours. The huge crowd in a queue.

Indian man (1): You have to pay money to seeing [indistinct]. One man was waiting in a queue for four hours. Did not see. And he came back.

Dr. Patel: There is a fee. There is a fee for going.

Indian man (1): Fee, and then...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In some places, even if you have money, you cannot see, like Jagannātha.

Dr. Patel: They are fools, sir. You can go. I think one day I will have to go with them and fight out the whole case. These boys should be allowed. They follow the sanātana-dharma. And again in... I mean, now the government has put the regulations that all the temples are open to all, anybody and everybody. How can they refuse? Who are at that maṭha, Jagannātha? Those people, they must be from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Local men.

Dr. Patel: Local. All the big temples in India have got management committees, practically people from various parts. Our own Jagannātha Purī, I mean, this, our Dvārakā temple is managed by people from Bombay---Bombay, Delhi and many other places. So they must have all [indistinct].

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even one of our Indian men they stopped. Caitya-guru told me that when he went there they thought he was Westerner. They wouldn't let him in the second time he tried to go in.

Dr. Patel: This gentleman is coming before the judge of the Bombay high court.

Gurudāsa: We can see the cakra on the top.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: We can see the cakra on the top. It is the same. [break]

Dr. Patel: No, no, no, don't. It should have been taken out, not here but there. That was not for, but that was the government of India wanted to construct an office for customs here, and we objected, that "You can't do it in the sea area where we have to..., on the beach." So they broke it down. You know that small... It will not be. It will be very good practise.

Prabhupāda: It can continue. It can continue.

Dr. Patel: They come down there and just stay for pleasure. Because this temple. allow them like that.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Nobody can stay without following our rules and regulations. That is not our...

Dr. Patel: Externally they may follow. They may be people, out of difficulty... [Hindi]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Everyone is in difficulty.

Prabhupāda: It will be an institution for teaching spiritual life. So if he does not take the teaching, then it is not...

Dr. Patel: One thing, you must have a Sanskrit school.

Prabhupāda: That we can have. Sanskrit is already there in the books.

Dr. Patel: And then let them have a factual teaching of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Sanskrit.

Prabhupāda: Now every gentleman knows English, so we have explained everything in English. There is no difficulty.

Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. But when you see, I mean, study a thing in English and study in original language, you...

Prabhupāda: Original language? Nobody can read Sanskrit nowadays. Even the Sanskrit paṇḍitas, they also cannot read. I have tried it. [break] It does not depend on understanding language.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupāda: Hearing. One who has heard, given aural reception nicely, he is perfect knowledge. Therefore our Vedas are known as śruti. You have to learn it by hearing, not by studying.

Dr. Patel: In bhakti also, śravaṇam is first.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Anyone who is not taking seriously to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is purposefully committing suicide. It is not a sentiment; it is a scientific movement. But they do not care to understand. Therefore, purposefully they are committing suicide. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu, very appropriate word = "I have drunk poison knowingly." [aside:] We shall return now?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Hari hari bifale, janama goṅāinu. Jaya. "I am free. What can I...? Whatever I like, I can do," without knowing, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27].

Dr. Patel: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.

Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra. "Ah, what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I can do without."

Dr. Patel: Once a man is free of ahaṅkāra, then he is soul.

Prabhupāda: No, ahaṅkāra there will be, but ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, thinking falsely something, that "I am this body." Therefore he's vimūḍha. These are animal. Ahaṅkāra is there, "I am Brahman, spirit soul." But he is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am dog," "I am cat." Vimūḍhātmā. And this first principle of knowledge they cannot understand. Mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti mām eka param avyayam [Bg. 7.25].

Dr. Patel: That is the [indistinct] Brahmacārī has written [Sanskrit] [break]

Prabhupāda: Man-manā. That is the only way.

Dr. Patel: That is ananya-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Parā-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ [Bg. 9.34] = "To become My devotee means you shall think of Me twenty-four hours," man-manā. Then you become a bhakta. Not that meditation---I meditate fifteen minutes, and twenty-four hours thinking of something else.

Dr. Patel: Then you never, I mean, that even for, it is just like you, even for a moment you slip down, just like a [indistinct]. It should be perpetual conscious within yourself. [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: I have seen Gandhi's prayer meeting, and I attended. Utmost, five minutes reading Bhagavad-gītā, then again politics immediately. Immediately politics. I was in Delhi. I attended the meeting when Noakhali fast. So this was his prayer. I have seen. And as a result of this, in that prayer meeting he was killed. [Hindi] So nature punishment are there. [Hindi] The last stage of Kali-yuga means you die.

Dr. Patel: But the way that modern civilized nations are exploiting the resources of the world, another fifty years there will be no resources left, and civilization automatically will die out.

Prabhupāda: Wars. The occasional war, pestilence, famine, that's all.

Dr. Patel: Even there is no war, sir, or no pestilence, the population... And the inundation of the resources...

Prabhupāda: There will be war. Because you are dissatisfied, I am dissatisfied, on some little provocation we fight. Nobody is happy. I have seen in Allahabad, little provocation, two brothers fought so much, one brother was killed immediately. Then, when he was ordered to be hanged, his father appealed that "I am the father. One son I have already lost. If he is hanged, then my... You hang me, my good man[?]." Then he excused him hanging, and he actually was... Upon the father's appeal. I have seen it.

Dr. Patel: They are very fortunate people.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they were Bengalis.

Dr. Patel: Bengalis are very... Can I tell you something? Bengalis are highly, what do we call...

Prabhupāda: Sentimental.

Dr. Patel: Abhimānī. [Hindi] part of the people in India

Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone is abhimānī, more or less.

Dr. Patel: No, but they are more than others. [laughs] I think I am not wrong.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātu... [SB 10.84.13] [Hindi]

Dr. Patel: You are pleading their case, the Bengalis. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say they are little abhimāna, but what kind of abhimāna this is, that "I am God"? Just see how foolish it is. [Hindi] [greets someone] Hare Kṛṣṇa. How are you? [break]

Indian man: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Okay. You are all right? Very glad to meet you. Thank you. Namaskāra.

Dr. Patel: This man is seventy-one years old. He is very wise man.

Indian man: [Hindi]

Dr. Patel: Seventy-one years.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Jaya.

Dr. Patel: Seventy-one years. [break] I am a little pious man [indistinct]. The pleasure which I get in reading something...

Prabhupāda: No, no, you can get, but other, mostly ninety-nine percent, they do not know Sanskrit, and if you ask them to learn Sanskrit and then read Bhagavad-gītā...

Dr. Patel: No, no, no. I said teach Sanskrit through Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that we are doing.

Dr. Patel: That is what I said.

Prabhupāda: That we are doing. We give each word's meaning. Each word of any Sanskrit śloka, we give the meaning. That is right.

Dr. Patel: You haven't got to give them Sanskrit grammar and derivates. Then that knowledge [indistinct]. That is the way I learned my Sanskrit. I mean, a student of science, we don't have any...

Prabhupāda: If one is serious to learn, he can learn. There is no difficulty. No. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]. Now, if he inquires, "The word is dharma-kṣetra. Why it is written kṣetre?" then it is grammar.

Dr. Patel: That is what I say. That is the way I learned.

Prabhupāda: So that, if he likes, he can learn it. Saptamī, adhikaraṇa saptamī, sthāna, kṣetra, kṣetre, dharma-kṣetre. If he simply tries to learn the nominative case, the objective case, or like that, then he'll learn.

Dr. Patel: [Sanskrit] Like that. All three things in different way.

Prabhupāda: Sañjaya uvāca. It is nominative case. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetāḥ [Bg. 1.1], this is plural number; yuyutsavaḥ, plural number. Māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva. Pāṇḍavāḥ is plural number, and when it is added with ca it becomes śca. The visarga... In this way he can learn. Eva, again sandhi. Māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś ca eva.

Dr. Patel: My meaning was that. Simply my idea was that he can learn in that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So any serious student, he can learn at home. It is not very difficult. And after studying one or two or a dozen sentences like that, automatically, yes, he learns sandhi, he learns verb, he learns subject, object, everything.

Dr. Patel: And he must [indistinct]. Phoenetic. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...no time. Otherwise I would have made Bhagavad-gītā grammar. Yes.

Dr. Patel: That is what I really meant when I say that...

Prabhupāda: You can do that. You can do that. People will read it, Bhagavad-gītā grammar. On the Bhagavad-gītā teach them grammar. Just like Jīva Gosvāmī compiled Hari-nāmāmṛta-vyākaraṇa. Similarly, you write. You have got both the knowledge, Sanskrit, and through English, Bhagavad-gītā grammar. People will take it. I have no time; otherwise I have done it. Simply nominative case, objective case, śabda-rūpa. Jayapatākā's plan is prepared or not?

Saurabha: We are going to do that today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [break]

Dr. Patel: [Hindi with Prabhupāda] That is taught by the mother. Sanātana-dharma is given by the mothers. But the modern mothers are [indistinct] mothers. So you don't require.

Prabhupāda: They are killing their children. In the Western countries the mothers are killing children, advising girls, daughters, "Oh, you are pregnant? Kill." [Hindi] [end]