Morning Walk , Māyāpur , 1976-03-19

Prabhupāda: "These people, they have no illicit sex, no intoxication?" Oh, immediately they become praising, "Such wonderful men. No illicit sex?" [laughs] which is unknown to you, the Western people.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think it is like Superman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Superman, actually. That is the fact.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, today starts a big international convention for the Association for Asian Studies, and we're there. It's in Toronto. We have an advertisement in this book, with Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, with a quote by that Bruce Long. And we have that big sign at our booth = "The largest publisher and distributor of books on the philosophy, culture and religion of India." This shows also with all the exhibitors we're listed, the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. And this is where we are, this booth here.

Prabhupāda: So who is taking care?

Satsvarūpa: Two of the library men who didn't come, just so they could go to this convention. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...therefore they search. And who goes to the airport? All respectable gentlemen, who can pay lump sum for air fare. So he's also searched out. That means there is no gentlemen. The airport security is searching through, then in this world there is no gentleman, no honest men.

Haṁsadūta: Everyone is suspected.

Prabhupāda: All rascals. This is the position.

Hari-śauri: But when you go through, Śrīla Prabhupāda, everybody offers their respects.

Prabhupāda: They also sometimes show me the favor, but generally... Sometimes they also search.

Gurukṛpā: Search your pockets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, like this. [gestures] [laughter] That way.

Devotee (1): That's a great mercy for them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is mercy. When they excuse a saintly person, that is..., that is their great mercy. Now, according to Vedic law, a saintly person is never subjected to any law. He's paramahaṁsa. He's never... Rather, the order is he must be given all help that he wants. That is the Vedic civilization. And brahmacārī, sannyāsīs, they should be treated as children at home, so that wherever they go, they will be treated just like children = "Oh, he's my son. He's my dependent." They will treat like that. And they also go to every home = "Mother, give me some food." So he's children, as the child asks from the mother, "Give me some food." This is system. This is civilization. And M.A., Ph.D., and searching after woman, how to induce her, and being searched out in the airport, whether he's a rogue---what is this education? We don't want this education. [break] ...student life we have seen practically, one big professor, Dr. Brajendranath Shri. So he had another Ph.D. student, and that student kidnapped his daughter and went away. He was so educated that kidnapped his teacher's, or the master's, daughter and went away. Kāmātura. What is that word? Kāmātura.

Śāstrījī: Kāmāturaṁ harṣa-śoka-bhayaiṣaṇārtam [SB 7.9.39].

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is kāmāturam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, millions of years ago, a five-years-old boy, he's stating what is the position of the materialistic person. This is Bhāgavata. [break] ...education system should be stopped. Rascal, producing rascals and hippies in the university. What is the use of this education? Atheists, putting simply theories, and that is also nonsense, and it is going on in the name of education. [break] ...Paṇḍita says who is paṇḍita. Recite.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu lokavat.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. The... Is... It is moral instruction, what to speak of high education. Means it, preliminary moral education. That is,

This is learned. What is the meaning? Explain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who sees...

Prabhupāda: No, no. He'll explain.

Śāstrījī: Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Para-dāra means "every woman." "Who can see every woman like, like mother..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śāstrījī: And para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Para-dravya means money, something of others.

Prabhupāda: "Belonging to others."

Śāstrījī: Yes, "of others." So who can see like loṣṭravat...

Prabhupāda: That is para-drav...

Śāstrījī: ...rubbish, or like rubbish, cannot take; cannot pick up. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu: "Every living entity," ātmavat, "like himself."

Prabhupāda: Yes, as we feel pains and pleasures...

Śāstrījī: Sa yaḥ paśyati: "Who can see like that..."

Prabhupāda: ...they should know the others also will feel. If my throat is cut, I feel, and "Why shall I cut the throat of another poor animal?" This is learned man. And this rascal, maintaining slaughterhouse, and learned man? And they cannot understand. And big, big priests, they'll defend = "Oh, this 'Thou shalt not kill' means it is meant for the men, not for the ani..." They'll put arguments. Christ says clearly, "Thou shall not kill" and they will defend.

Trivikrama: Even abortion they are defending.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: Even abortion they are defending.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this is going on as education, as saintly person, priest. These things are going on in the name of religion, in the name of education. How much fallen this world is, just try to understand. As soon as they are caught up, they'll defend only by arguments, counterarguments.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is that because they have no standard?

Prabhupāda: No. How they can have standard? Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. How they can have good standard? Because they are atheists, godless, there cannot be. That is the test. As soon as he is godless, he's rascal. Never mind M.A., Ph.D. That's all. This is our conclusion. As soon as you know that "Here is a godless atheist," he is rascal. Bās, finished. Exactly like... Suppose you are in India, and if you think, "No, there is no government. It is going on automatically," then you are rascal, immediately. Is it very sane man, sane man's statement, statement, that "No, no, there is no God. It is going on"? So atheist means rascal. Such a nice arrangement is going on, exactly at 6:15 the sun is there, and "There is no government. There is no God." Just see how rascaldom. And then what it is? "By chance." And he is scientist. We have to consider them educated scientists? Are we going to be fooled like that? "There is no government." "There is no father." How the child came? "There is no father." Just see. A woman has got a child, and if somebody says, "Yes, she has got child, but there is no need of a father," is that sane man's proposal? Nature is producing, and nature is prakṛti, but where is the puruṣa? Prakṛti-puruṣa. So without puruṣa, how prakṛti can produce? That puruṣaṁ śāśvatam ādyam, Kṛṣṇa. Hmm? Is that all right?

Śāstrījī: Puruṣaṁ śāśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum [Bg. 10.12].

Prabhupāda: Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam, that puruṣa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. We are worshiping that supreme, original person.

[pause]

Prabhupāda: And the women are declaring "independent." They are begging door to door to a man, "Please give me shelter. Give me a child," and they're independent. Hmm? One American woman was..., she was speaking that "In India the woman are treated as slave. We don't want." So I told her that it is better to become slave of one person than to slave of become hundreds. [laughter] The woman must become a slave. So instead of becoming slaves of so many persons, it is better to remain satisfied a slave of one person. So she was stopped. She was the secretary of that Dr. Mishra. You know that? And our Vedic civilization says, narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam: "The woman is beautiful when she remains as a slave to the husband." That is the beauty, not the personal beauty. How much she has learned to remain as a slave to the husband, that is Vedic civilization. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpam. The cuckoo, it is black bird, but why people love it? Because of the sweet voice. Kokilānāṁ svaro rūpaṁ vidyā-rūpaṁ kurūpaṇam [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita]. A man may be ugly, black, but if he's learned, everyone will respect him. And narī-rūpaṁ pati-vratam. And the beauty of woman is how much she is devoted and obedient to the husband. So it is very difficult. [break]

Devotee (2): ...Prabhupāda, the education is to teach the students how to find out on their own. They say if you take authority from somebody else, it just stifles their growth, and that is not actually knowledge, that is not learning. But you encourage them or give them the facility...

Prabhupāda: But why the rascal is called to the school? He may learn at home.

Devotee (2): Well, they want to condition them...

Prabhupāda: What?

Devotee (2): ...with various values.

Prabhupāda: What is the value? If you are calling him to take education from the school, that means he is accepting authority. Let him be educated at home. Why the college?

Devotee: But in the classrooms, they simply...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. First of all, the principle. What is this principle?

Rāmeśvara: To train him in the methods of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means authority. You are teaching him to accept the authority, and you are teaching against authority. Everything contradictory. One side, contraceptive; one side, illicit sex. And the... But Vedic civilization says, "All right, as soon as woman is widow, let her remain as a saintly woman---no more sex." But "No, you can marry and you can have sex hundred times daily, but use contraceptive." Is that civilization? To train one woman not to have any more sex, this is also contraceptive. And another way, that "You can have sex any amount, as many times as you like. Take this contraceptive." Whose civilization better? And you call him to be trained up to accept authority and teach him, "Don't accept any authority." Is that education? Nonsense.

Haṁsadūta: They're doing that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are doing that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is the idea of the secular state, though.

Prabhupāda: Well, secul... Whatever you name it, you are all set of rascals. That's all. [laughter] You can change the name in different way, but on the whole, you are all set of rascals. This is the whole world's [indistinct].

Pañcadravida: This modern theory, Prabhupāda, is that if a person wants to... If he can maintain more than one wife nicely and wants to keep more than one wife, they won't allow. But if he can keep many young girls and spoil every one of them, that is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Pañcadravida: ...that is praiseworthy.

Prabhupāda: And advertise publicly = "Topless, bottomless women are available here. Come here. School[?] is open at ten o'clock at night. It goes on up to four." I have seen it. This is civilization = nightclub and topless, bottomless shop.

Rāmeśvara: The women argue, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they can be given... If they are given a good chance, they can make equal contribution in business, in science. So they are demanding equal rights, equal employment.

Prabhupāda: So why... Why not equal rights that you stop producing children like the man? The man does not produce. Why you are obliged to produce?

Rāmeśvara: That is their special qualification.

Prabhupāda: That is... Similarly, everything is special. You are a different entity. You must have different engagements. That is your perfection.

Rāmeśvara: But we all have... The women and men, they all have the same brain, they say.

Prabhupāda: No, that I protested in Chicago. Yes. And "No, that is not the fact. The fact is man has sixty-four ounce. The woman has thirty-six ounce. Highest."

Devotee (2): They'll say intelligence is not dependent on the size of the brain.

Prabhupāda: They say anything, because they are rascals. A rascal can say anything. Pāgale ki nā bale chāgale ki nā khāya: "A madman, what he does not say? And a goat, what he does not eat?" [laughter] [break]

Pañcadravida: ...Vedic civili...

Prabhupāda: Vedic civilization means you don't talk, rascal. Hear only. Śruti. This is Vedic civilization = "You rascal, don't talk. Simply hear." This is Vedic civilization, śruti. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12] = "Go to guru and hear from him." That is Vedic civilization. "Don't talk, rascal." This is Vedic civilization. And Vedic civilization begins, Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. This is Vedic civilization = "Don't talk, rascal. Just..., just carry out what I say." This is Vedic civilization.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in one BTG article, you listed...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rādhāvallabha: In one BTG article, you described increase in women population as a natural disaster.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: So when one woman read this article, she became very angry. She came back and was very angry.

Prabhupāda: She may be angry. She is woman and man [mad?]. Actually this is physiological. If a man is too much addicted to sex life, he'll become impotent, and if he begets child, it will be a girl. With no potency to give birth to a male child. That requires potency.

Haṁsadūta: When we were going around in London making Life Members, I noticed that in so many families, all the children are girls. No boys.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is full of girls, girl children. Why? There is no potency. Potency finished. Or impotent. And if you keep one boy brahmacārī, no sex life, and get him married, the first child must be a boy. Must be, without any doubt.

Lokanātha: That means, then, woman is more potent than...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. The Āyur-vedic formula is that when there is discharge, the woman's discharge more means girl, and man's discharge more means boy. This is physiological.

Rāmeśvara: The women argue that they are stronger than the men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are stronger than the man, that when there is fight, the man goes; you do not go. You are so strong. You are simply ravished in the absence of your husband. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Now... The women are joining the army in America now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen a police in London. So I told that "If I catch your hand and give you a slap, where is your police?" [laughter] "I am old man. If I catch your hand and give you a slap, what police action will be there?"

Pañcadravida: Prabhupāda, who is that prostitute the gopīs refer to?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Pañcadravida: In the Kṛṣṇa book the gopīs say that "The great prostitute," I forget the name, "Pimba," or something, "says that..."

Prabhupāda: Kubjā. Kubjā, Kubjā.

Satsvarūpa: Disappointment.

Prabhupāda: Kubjā.

Devotee: Kubjā?

Pañcadravida: Yeah, she said... That prostitute has said, "Disappointment is the greatest pleasure."

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Gives rise to the highest pleasure."

Pañcadravida: The gopīs refer to that when they...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañcadravida: Who was that prostitute?

Prabhupāda: Why you are asking me? [laughter] As if I have to keep account of prostitute. [laughter] What is this nonsense? There was a big educationist, Ishwarchandra Vidyasagar. So... So to show compassion to the prostitutes, at night in a... In India I have seen in our childhood, prostitute, they stand on the road. And in Paris I have seen.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere, they... So, so they're standing---no customer at two o'clock. It is very cold. So Vidyasagar will take compassion = "All right, you take two rupees. Go home. Sleep." And that is, in Vidyasagar's life, compassionate to the prostitute. By giving her two rupees, will she change her profession? But this learned man, he thought like that, that "She is standing in the severe cold. All right, let me... Let me... Let me give her two rupees. Then go home. Don't take so much..." He's vidyā-sāgara.

Devotee: What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: The vidyā-sāgara means "ocean of education." And Haridāsa Ṭhākura---a prostitute came for three nights and converted her to a devotee. That's it. That is real compassion, not that "Take two rupees and go away." No. Turn her. That is real compassion, to turn everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the greatest welfare activity in the world. Otherwise there cannot be any peace or prosperity. Where is Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, he had a cold, and he's lying down.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why cold?

Lokanātha: In Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you are mentioning that prostitute is needed in the society.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for the rascals. Otherwise they will pollute the innocent girls. The innocent girls... That is the policy of the Western civilization, that "Let the karmīs enjoy new, new girls and be energetic to produce machine." This is the European civilization, American civilization. Because the karmīs, unless they have sufficient sex intercourse, they cannot work. So this is the policy = "Let all the girls remain open." They... "Let them use and produce atomic bomb. Show your brain." The... Just like the marriage. According to Vedic civilization, marriage is allowed to the karmīs. It is not that marriage allowed to the sannyāsī or brahmacārī. The karmīs require sex. Therefore... Why marriage is allowed to the gṛhastha? Why not to the brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsī? Why it is not recommended? Because the karmīs require that enlivenment. Therefore they are allowed to marry. So in the European civilization it is only karmīs. There is no question of brahmacārī, vānaprastha or sannyāsa. There is no such idea. Therefore they want new, new girls. And that way they have kept, this artificial law.

Pañcadravida: Outlawing prostitution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And no prostitution. And no prostitution, what it means? That means there is prostitutes in the society.

Pañcadravida: Everybody's a prostitute.

Prabhupāda: Now, the Vedic civilization is, "All right, you are not satisfied one woman? Don't pollute the innocent girls or in the home; go to the prostitute." Still, in big, big cities, there is a quarter, prostitute quarter, still. They are professional prostitutes.

Pañcadravida: What was the Vedic punishment if somebody broke these moral principles?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Pañcadravida: What would be the punishment in a Vedic society if somebody...

Prabhupāda: Oh. Picture, Fifth Canto. You see the description of the hell.

Pañcadravida: Hell. I mean, but within the society itself, there was punishment there also from the king?

Prabhupāda: Everyone who will commit sinful activities will be punished. That is nature's law. Exactly like that if you infect some disease, you must suffer from that disease. The nature's law is so strict, and it is going on. It doesn't require any supervision. The supervisions are already made so perfect. You infect this disease = you suffer from it. That's all.

Pañcadravida: In... In the society, if somebody would be...

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, if you break the laws, you suffer. Anywhere.

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, science has developed methods where they can have sense gratification and... Just like if they get some disease, they can give them some medicine, and then the disease goes away very easily. So in this way, they're actually giving more facility for more sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: So do you like to accept it, that disease? Therefore it has been condemned, prāyaścitta. Perhaps you have read it in the beginning of Sixth Canto. Prāyaścitta... Parīkṣit Mahārāja condemned, "What is the use of this Vedic prāyaścitta if it is suffering again and again? Then what is the use?" That he has condemned. But prāyaścitta vimarśanam. Therefore the rascal should be given knowledge that "You are attacked with some disease. Very good. You are injected with some medicine, you are cured, then again you are attacked. So why you are going in this way? Stop it." And that is knowledge. That knowledge is also not perfect, because even a man in knowledge, he knows that "If I go to prostitute, I'll be attacked with syphilitic poison, and last time I had the same trouble, I had to spend so much money." But still he'll go, because he has no knowledge. So even one has no knowledge, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he becomes detestful = "Oh..." That is the, mean, gift of bhakti.

That the whole world is dark, misty. So you can invent so many means. Just like they have got, what is called, crackers? In the mist? Sometimes that is blown so that warn people that "Don't come here. There is danger."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Flares.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can invent so many means of curing the danger. But as soon as the sun is there, immediately all mist is over. Similarly, we have invented so many medicines and counteractions for so many things. But if one becomes a devotee, all these troubles immediately... That is the only one medicine. He has no more any inclination. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42] = "No more I want." And that is wanted. [break] ...asmi varaṁ na yāce. One should be fully satisfied = "No more I want this material disease. That's all. Enough of it." That mentality required = "I don't want anything material facility." Sannyāsa means that, that "I shall live with the minimum necessities of life and simply devote..." That is sannyāsa. "I shall become a sannyāsī and enjoy all material facilities"---that is not sannyāsa. [break] ...recommended that "If there is no need, don't take even cloth. Remain naked." That is sannyāsa. But because we have to preach, we have to go the people, therefore some covering. Otherwise, this is also not necessary for a sannyāsī. Nothing. Lie down on the floor like the Śukadeva Gosvāmī said, and take water in your palm; no dress. Śukadeva was also not dressing---naked. That is the perfection of sannyāsa. [kīrtana] [break] Where is Jayapatākā? [break] ...talk with this boy. He wanted to... [break] ...make. He's offering a land. Did you talk with him?

Jayapatākā: No. I sent... Śatadhanya talked with him.

Śatadhanya: This man right here?

Jayapatākā: No, a different. This boy?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śatadhanya: Yeah, we gave him one room last night. He's staying. And prasāda.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. [Bengali] [break] ...tat paraṁ. [aside:] Jaya.

Jayapatākā: The gurukula teachers had one question, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatākā: At one time, you had instructed that all the children should attend the main class. They say that some of the very small children have trouble to keep their attention...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not small...

Jayapatākā: So they found that if they attend a separate...

Prabhupāda: It is common sense. Also attend many child in the lap of his mother. You see? He should also...?

Jayapatākā: Yeah, they find those seven-, eight-year-old, they attend better a small, private reading.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But one thing is that if they can attend, even by hearing the Vedic mantras they'll be benefited. Even they... Therefore I give stress on chanting the mantra, so that if one cannot chant and cannot under..., simply by hearing, he'll be benefited. [break] Hmm?

Jayapatākā: I haven't seen personally. [aside:] Have you seen them outside? It was supposed to be...

Prabhupāda: So, where is the painting?

Rāmeśvara: It's ready to see.

Jayapatākā: Rāmeśvara said it's ready to see.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Then let us go see. [gurukula children chanting loudly; greeting Prabhupāda] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. [break] Little dark is. But not bad. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Jadurāṇī was saying he paints dark. He usually... His style is to paint with dark colors

Prabhupāda: No, no. It should be bright, because...

Devotee (3): Effulgent.

Rādhāvallabha: Also, he was worried that when the sun hits it, after some time it will just fade away.

Prabhupāda: Then we should use such color which may not fade away. The picture is all right. The picture is all right. Simply it has to be made more bright. It is India. It is not London, always foggy. [laughter] [end]