Morning Walk , Māyāpur , 1976-02-27

Prabhupāda: ...what they'll encourage? To become thief?

Hṛdayānanda: It looks like that.

Prabhupāda: A secular state?

Hṛdayānanda: To encourage nationalism, serving the government, it's economic development...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. If the people become thieves and rogues, then how the economic development will be possible?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This they can see. They have made no progress since they became...

Prabhupāda: They should be, apart from religion, they should be educated to become truthful, to become merciful, to..., like these ordinary things. They should be educated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're not being taught that way.

Prabhupāda: So where is the...? What is the meaning of secular? Does it mean... Secularism means roguism? [break]

Hṛdayānanda: He has no shame. He again wants to be in.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think he'd be interested.

Hṛdayānanda: No. It is there. They have absolutely no shame. They will again come back.

Devotee (1): Actually, they are all doing it; he just got caught. So he doesn't feel so bad. It's like a game.

Prabhupāda: So how, if the state has condemned him as dishonest man, how he's being appointed as Ambassador?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's not being appointed so far.

Hṛdayānanda: But he is making... He's trying to... He's trying to position himself to try to get that... He's aspiring. Like Dhṛtarāṣṭra.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He's a rascal. [break]

Hṛdayānanda: ...going to jail, after he was caught, he made a trick that he... There were reports that "Now the president, he has been kicked out. He is so much depressed, he is going insane. The only way he can be saved is you must pardon him." So the new president, he pardoned him to...

Devotee (1): There was also some talk that the arrangement was made before.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): In the newspapers, I also read that there was some talk before. Like they're actually friends. So they just feel, "Well, he got caught. We'll give him another try."

Hṛdayānanda: That "If you'll go away and let me be the president, then I'll get you out of jail."

Devotee (1): "We'll make some arrangement."

Hṛdayānanda: "I'll give you pardon."

Devotee (1): They don't con... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...an agreement that "Ford, if you want to become president immediately, you accept this, that you'll excuse me. Then I resign. You become immediately. Otherwise, I'll continue. Let me see. So you'll be delayed." So he thought, "I am going to be immediately president. All right, agree. That's all."

Devotee (1): He made him his vice-president.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hṛdayānanda: No, no. That was before.

Prabhupāda: Vice-president?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That was another...

Hṛdayānanda: Nixon had made Ford vice-president.

Prabhupāda: He was vice-president. Ford?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is his contribution to the state after becoming President?

Hṛdayānanda: Ford?

Prabhupāda: No, Ford, no. I mean Nixon. When he was being elected, I was there in America. He was advertising, "America needs Nixon." You have seen that?

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You were driving me. I saw that time.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: At that time, we had no place. We were holding our classes on the garage and somewhere. Before coming to La Cienega...

Dayānanda: Hmm, yes.

Prabhupāda: ...I was running on that road where there is tram-line. What is that road?

Hṛdayānanda: Which road?

Dayānanda: Melrose, I think?

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: That was 1968.

Prabhupāda: Nineteen... I do not know.

Dayānanda: Sixty-nine.

Prabhupāda: Sixty-nine, yes.

Hṛdayānanda: The election was '68.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That time he lost to Johnson, I think.

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he was being elected. So he was... The signboard was "America needs Nixon."

Hari-śauri: I think, when he was thrown out of office, he said, "Well, I may have had so many faults, but at least I increased our good relations with other countries." He was always... He was trying to convince everybody that he may not have been very good at domestic affairs, but at foreign affairs he was expert, so then that made his administration not so bad.

Hṛdayānanda: One thing... The one thing that caused his downfall, that when they heard the tapes... He had recorded all of his conversations, private conversations with his ministers. So it turned out that it was horrible language. Practically every other word was dirty word.

Prabhupāda: That dirty word used by him?

Hṛdayānanda: Practically every other word.

Dayānanda: Filthy language.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hṛdayānanda: They discovered... So this is what also hurt him, because they discovered some tape of private conversations, and it was very, very obscene. Practically every other word was bad word.

Prabhupāda: He was a lawyer. He's a lawyer.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Dayānanda: In America now, so many so-called cultured men---lawyers and doctors and so many cultured men---their language is very horrible, their...

Prabhupāda: Vulgar.

Dayānanda: Their whole attitude is vulgar also, not just language, but whole... Yeah. And like even in Europe before, a gentleman was a gentleman. They were..., I think. And even in America before, they had some good qualities. But now the so-called gentlemen or educated men, they're very vulgar.

Hṛdayānanda: Vicious.

Dayānanda: Becoming more and more gross.

Prabhupāda: Varṇa-saṅkara.

Dayānanda: Yes. Like that.

Prabhupāda: Therefore their sons are hippies.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The father is varṇa-saṅkara, the son is also.

Hari-śauri: The more vulgar you are, the more glorified you become. Especially like all these film stars and public figures, the more of a drunkard they are, then the more they're publicized in the news.

Prabhupāda: Just like John Lennon. He is a public man.

Dayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just see. What he is? He's standing naked and taking photograph. His wife and he, standing naked. I have seen. And that picture is there in his sitting room, fireplace. There is the picture. [laughs] I went to see him. I was his guest. So one day I was... I saw there that big picture on the fireplace. And here is a public... Newspapermen go to him to take his opinion = "What is your opinion?" Just see. What is his value? Nobody. He is public leader because he has got some money. Money is the criterion. Therefore people are accumulating money some way or other. He knows that "If I got money, then I'll have all influence over the society."

Hari-śauri: A rich man, no matter what his morals or character...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares.

Hari-śauri: ...he becomes very attractive.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good quality. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. These are the... From the Vedic angle of vision, the Western people are the most uncivilized. Only money is covering them. When they introduced that mini-skirt for the girl, how much abominable it was considered in India. But they very publicly introduced.

Hari-śauri: Now even in India, slowly...

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll imitate.

Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was..., when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he..., he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister.

Dayānanda: We were talking yesterday how nice this story of Prahlāda Mahārāja is, because no matter how great a demon becomes, still, he cannot vanquish the devotees, even if the devotee is a very insignificant little boy, only five years old. These demons seem so...

Hari-śauri: Powerful.

Dayānanda: ...horrible. The society is so degraded. [break]

Hari-śauri: Six twenrty.

Prabhupāda: Eh? The idea of reincarnation. That is horrible for them.

Hari-śauri: If they understood that they would have to pay later for what they're doing now, they wouldn't be able to do it.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So, what is the report?

Jayapatākā: Er... The printing?

Prabhupāda: Our. Fifty thousand.[?]

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We're doing that, printing fifty...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: That will be ready after the festival? [break] ...an elephant?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatākā: Elephant?

Prabhupāda: No elephant. Why elephant? Elephant is royal. We are not royal. We are beggars, sannyāsī, beggars.

Hṛdayānanda: These buses arriving in the villages will be very... People will never forget it.

Hari-śauri: That procession we had in the villages near Ahmedabad, in the villages there, that must have been a once in a lifetime experience for most of them.

Prabhupāda: We can go there... And now, wherever we shall go, they will be received like that.

Jayapatākā: They especially mentioned...

Prabhupāda: The Indian people are meant for that purpose. They are from the birth, janmanā... Other, they are janmanā śūdra, but Indians, they are janmanā devotees.

Jayapatākā: I meant to mention that he commented that when they were coming from Andhra, when they..., as they're getting closer to Bengal, in Orissa, and then even more so in Bengal, the..., both in Ori..., so many kīrtana was there. The people were meeting them with kīrtana and everyone was doing kīrtana. But in Andhra and other places, not so much kīrtana is there.

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayapatākā: They say they get much better reception in Orissa and Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because...

Jayapatākā: And already they picked up one devotee, I think. Devotees come also quicker.

Hṛdayānanda: Lord Caitanya...

Jayapatākā: I think if we concentrated first in Bengal and Orissa, we get some..., enough devotees, and then they could help us in the other villages elsewhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: All over India. Like Madana already got three devotees when I was there in one week. By now he may also have more. Bengalis like kīrtana very much. [break] ...devotees are Bengalis.

Prabhupāda: ...ago Bengali culture was very much adored all over India. Even one big politician, Gandhi's guru, Goke, Gokule, he remarked, "What Bengal thinks today, other provinces will think tomorrow." He said like that. And actually all big, big movements started from Bengal. The national movement also was started from Bengal. Whatever we may criticize Vivekananda, when... He's a Bengali. He went first for preaching Indian religion. Rabindranath Tagore, he's a Bengali. All big, big...

Jayapatākā: Aurobindo.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo is a Bengali.

Devotee (2): Paramahaṁsa Yogananda is also a Bengali.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know him?

Devotee (2): I don't know him. [laughter]

Prabhupāda: No, no...

Devotee (2): I've heard of him...

Prabhupāda: Bengali culture was very much adored. Surendranath Bannerjee started the political movement, and he was so well known. Even in Parliament, the Englishmen, English M.P.s, he... They were speaking of Surendranath. Surendranath, they used to say "Surrender not." "Here is a person who is not..., 'Surrender not.' He'll never surrender. 'Surrender not.' " Actually, the British Empire was startled by the agitation of Surendranath Bannerjee. The Congress was started by Surendranath Bannerjee, this one Congress. Two Bengali and one Englishman started this Congress sometimes in '87, 1887, like that. So in our childhood we used to see that Surendranath Bannerjee was being elected president of Congress almost every year. And Gandhi came into prominence when Surendranath Bannerjee surrendered. Formerly he was not surrendering. But the government gave him the first ministership, that "You become minister." So he became a government man. Then Gandhi came in prominence. Surendranath Bannerjee was the first minister in India. [break] ...in our childhood, if he would speak, thousands, thousands men will gather in Calcutta. [break] ...Surendranath Bannerjee Road.

Jayapatākā: Yes, very prominent road.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where my nephews have shop, Surendranath Bannerjee Road.

Jayapatākā: They did not knight him.

Prabhupāda: His father was also very big man, Dr. Durga Charan Bannerjee. My sister hus..., Durga Charan Bannerjee, that is Surendranath Bannerjee father. He was a medical man.

Jayapatākā: It's a smaller road.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Doctor's land, Dr. Durga Charan Bannerjee Road, they belonged to very respectable family of that quarter, Bannerjee family. And Surendranath Bannerjee was the first I.C.S. I.C.S. He passed I.C.S. examination, Indian Civil Service, but he did not accept it. Aurobindo Ghosh was made by Surendranath Bannerjee. He was born in London. Aurobindo Ghosh's father, Manmohan Ghosh, he was a medical man in London. He was born... He's English birth. Well, later on, he became English-hater.

Jayapatākā: French-lover.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayapatākā: Lover of the French.

Prabhupāda: He?

Jayapatākā: Aurobindo?

Prabhupāda: No, who says?

Jayapatākā: He always had some French people with him?

Prabhupāda: No, no. That... One French girl entrapped him. That woman spoiled him. He was actually practicing yoga very nice. After his release from political entanglement, actually he became a yogī, but this Frenchwoman, who became later on "Mother," she spoiled her ca..., his career. He became a bhogī then. [laughter] Instead of yogī... Otherwise, he was becoming yogī. You'll find from his photo, in the beginning he was very lean and thin, and later on, when he died, he was very fatty. Means bhogī. [break] ...yogī, bhogī, rogī. There are three.

Devotee (3): Rogī.

Prabhupāda: Rogī means diseased, and bhogī means flourishing, and yogī means transcendentalist.

Hṛdayānanda: Rogī.

Hari-śauri: What is...? A yogī passes stool once a day, a bhogī twice and a rogī more.

Prabhupāda: Who told you. Eh?

Hari-śauri: That's what we were told when we first joined the temple to stop us over-eating.

Jayapatākā: Some devotees were holding their stool for the next day to be a yogī, [laughter] the second time coming. And getting stomachache.

Prabhupāda: Is it a fact?

Jayapatākā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Jayapatākā: I heard... They thought that was the criterion.

Prabhupāda: This is called makṣī mara kanani.[?] A clerk was making a fair book from the rough book. So he went to the toilet room, and he was [gestures]. Like this. So all of a sudden his boss came = "What you are doing here?" "Sir, I am trying to capture one fly." "And why?" "No, I am making the fair copy of the book, but in the original book, there is a fly smashed. [laughter] So I have to paste one fly." There are such fools. Makṣī mara kanani. "There is a fly, paste. So in the fair copy, there must be a fly, paste." [break] Yes. Unless there is pūjārī, what is the meaning of temple?

Jayapatākā: Separate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is actual temple.

Jayapatākā: Well, there'll be so many brāhmaṇas being made.

Prabhupāda: [aside] Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Jayapatākā: Everything... Even he includes Buddha and Kalki.

Hari-śauri: All the incarnations as well.

Jayapatākā: I... In the last...

Prabhupāda: Daśāvatāra.

Jayapatākā: Fifty-three avatāras.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-three?

Jayapatākā: Yes, I don't..., he..., fifty-three. Don't know why.

Prabhupāda: How many avatāras are there mentioned in the Bhāgavata?

Hari-śauri: About twenty-six or something like that.

Jayapatākā: Twenty-five, twenty-six.

Hari-śauri: Twenty-five or twenty-six. And then all the Viṣṇu expansions.

Jayapatākā: They needed twenty-four Viṣṇu expansions, and then the incarnations in the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Twenty-five? That is Vaikuṇṭha, everywhere. [break] Yes, planetarium...

Devotee (4): Temple and planetarium.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (4): "World's largest planetarium and Temple of Understanding."

Prabhupāda: No "Understanding" simply Vedic "Temple of Vedic Planetarium," That's all. We shall show the Vedic conception of planetary system within this material world and above the material world. [break] We are going to exhibit the Vedic culture throughout the whole world, and they'll come here.

Jayapatākā: The whole world will be coming here to...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: ...visit.

Prabhupāda: Just like they come to see the Taj Mahal...

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the architectural culture, they'll come to see the civilization culture, the philosophical culture, the religious culture by practical demonstration with dolls and other things.

Jayapatākā: And we'll be advertising that all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: It is a perfect plan.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: There can be a model of that temple in every temple all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: So then people can... Then advertising, "Come here."

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Actually it will be an unique thing in the world. There is no such thing all over the world. That we shall do. And not only simply showing museum, but educating people to that idea.

Hṛdayānanda: Preaching.

Prabhupāda: Right. With factual knowledge, books, not fictitious. [end]