Morning Walk , Māyāpur , 1976-02-19

Prabhupāda: ...this flavor. Now who can challenge? Apart from other things...

Acyutānanda: But you don't know the real cause scientifically, so you say it is a god.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You, you are scientist, but you are a greater rascal. You cannot explain. Wherefrom this flavor has come?

Acyutānanda: Well, we're working on that, and we'll find out.

Prabhupāda: But working... But we have got the already conclusion. Why should we work like a fool?

Acyutānanda: That's an excuse, because you cannot explain to your children when they come, so you say...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are explaining. Kṛṣṇa says, "This is I am." This is God. This is God. You are fool. You are searching after. But we know, "Here is God." Puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ [Bg. 7.9]. Aham. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this flavor." So as soon as you have this flavor, you understand Kṛṣṇa is there. It is easier. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ.

Acyutānanda: There was an arti...

Prabhupāda: Just like the sunshine is there. Here is Kṛṣṇa. So we have no difficulty. Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Here is puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca.

Acyutānanda: There was now a statement from the scientists, "Scientists are no longer positive why the sun shines." Like... They were positive, and they said, "We are positive." Now they are no longer positive why the sun shines.

Prabhupāda: What is that, "positive"?

Acyutānanda: They don't know... Before they were sure. Now they're not sure why the sun shines. They had concocted an idea, and they declared it as a law, a scientific law. Now they have..., again doubting their own law.

Guru-kṛpa: Actually the flavor that's in the flower comes from the different secretion, and by different mixture, different flavors come out.

Prabhupāda: Rascal, what is that mixture?

Guru-kṛpa: By chance.

Prabhupāda: By chance. [laughter]

Guru-kṛpa: Different chance creates different flavors.

Acyutānanda: They have... Scientists have analyzed all smells come in seven or eight basic smells = burnt, sweet, bitter... So they said, "A rose is seven sweet, two burnt and one bitter." So they take the chemicals, and it doesn't smell like a rose. They put the seven sweet and the one burnt, and..., and it doesn't smell rose. But just the statement that they are no longer chemicals...

Guru-kṛpā: But we can artificially create with our chemicals the smell of the rose.

Sudāmā: Just like now they have created flowers, plastic flowers that give scent.

Yaśodānandana: Yeah, sure.

Acyutānanda: But they have taken material from the already created, and here's without factory it's made.

Prabhupāda: If you ask for an artist to...

Acyutānanda: But there's no seed in the plastic flower, no seeds to create more.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Acyutānanda: The scient... There was a scientific law called Heisenberg's Law of Uncertainty that---'cause this Heisenberg just died, so they wrote his philosophy---that you cannot observe anything and give a conclusive answer to anything that was uncertain. No one can make a decisive statement...

Prabhupāda: So why you are giving this conclusive answer? Why he is giving?

Acyutānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: This is conclu...

Acyutānanda: All I'm saying is... Like what Socrates..., "I only know that I don't know."

Hari-śauri: In other words, he's in ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guru-kṛpa: In other words, he's admitting that he has limited senses.

Prabhupāda: So "I don't know" means that you are rascal. So you know. So why you are preaching? You know that you are a rascal. Then why you are preaching? You are teaching.

Acyutānanda: They, they showed his picture in the...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He said, "I know. I know that I don't know." So if you don't know, that means you are a rascal. So knowingly that you are a rascal, why you are taking the position of a teacher? That is cheating. You are rascal, cheater. That's all.

Acyutānanda: And his picture is..., was with a beer.

Hṛdayānanda: He wanted to teach everyone...

Acyutānanda: Einstein was also a drunkard.

Hṛdayānanda: He would say, "I have taken this position, teacher, because I want everyone to say, 'I don't know.' "

Acyutānanda: So just say, "I don't know."

Hari-śauri: If you don't know, why say anything?

Prabhupāda: It is very difficult to deal with these rascals. The other day one professor came to see me from Khabudvipa[?]. He was very submissive, but still, he would argue like this, that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa is making me to do, I am doing." So I told him, "Kṛṣṇa is asking you to surrender. Why don't you surrender?" "No, when He will will, I shall surrender."

Acyutānanda: "He should make me..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see.

Acyutānanda: There's a story I tell.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Acyutānanda: So there was a man. "Oh, when He wills me to surrender, I'll surrender, and..."

Prabhupāda: But He is directly saying, "You surrender." Still, He has to will? Just see the argument.

Yaśodānandana: He already willed five thousand years ago.

Hṛdayānanda: Cheating.

Acyutānanda: No, there was a story like that, that a cow ate a man's grasses. So the man beat the cow and the cow died. So Yamarāja came. And he was saying, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa willed me, and I killed the cow. It is all Kṛṣṇa's kārya. I did not kill him." So Yamarāja said, "Well, who..., who planted this rice?" He says, "I did." "And who purchased this land?" He says, "I did." "And who purchased.., who raised that land?" "I did." "Who did that?" "I did. I did. I did." "Now, who killed the cow?" [Prabhupāda laughs] So they want to take credit...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: ...when they do something for their sense gratification, but to sacrifice---"Oh, Kṛṣṇa has to tell me. Kṛṣṇa wills it." Then they don't... They say, "Why did Kṛṣṇa create evil?" Then there is a very peculiar question that comes sometimes = "If Kṛṣṇa knows that we were going to fall down, why didn't He save us?" or something like that.

Prabhupāda: He's saving you.

Sudāmā: In the West, that is a very popular question.

Prabhupāda: He's saving.

Sudāmā: Why didn't...

Prabhupāda: He's asking that "You... I'll save you. You surrender to Me."

Acyutānanda: But that means He knows everything in advance.

Prabhupāda: He knows. He knows that you are a rascal, you'll fall. Therefore He says that "Do this. You'll not fall."

Acyutānanda: And they don't seem to take that answer, and they're very...

Sudāmā: No, they become very embittered = "Why He permits us...? If He is all-loving God, why He permits us to suffer?

Prabhupāda: No, He's not permit... He forbids, but you...

Acyutānanda: You insist.

Prabhupāda: ...that you have to understand that you have got little independence. That... Actually they do not understand that.

Sudāmā: No. They're not satisfied.

Acyutānanda: They don't...

Sudāmā: Then they say, "Why He give us independence, then?"

Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.

Yaśodānandana: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions. So if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually..., everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Kṛṣṇa in such conditions? This is a very...

Acyutānanda: The original sin.

Sudāmā: Why we are envious,

Yaśodānandana: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśodānandana: How is it that...

Prabhupāda: That is independence. That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate.

Sudāmā: It is very hard thing to understand.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult.

Acyutānanda: It is not difficult. They don't want to understand.

Prabhupāda: Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel.

Acyutānanda: No, their idea is that they want to blame God for their predicament. Like a bad child, you know, says, "Well, you made me do it."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sudāmā: "What can I do?"

Prabhupāda: No, they say, "Why you gave me birth?" They say like that.

Sudāmā: Cursing almost. Almost.

Yaśodānandana: Also, the atheistic people sometimes argue, "What does your Kṛṣṇa do for the suffering people?"

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yaśodānandana: "What does He do? Why doesn't He come down and help the poor people? They are suffering."

Acyutānanda: I tell them there's...

Yaśodānandana: "Why doesn't He come and help them?"

Acyutānanda: In Andhra, I said, "There's so much land where they're growing tobacco. You could grow food." But in the Gītā it says, "Once coming there, he never returns."

Prabhupāda: But if he likes, he can return.

Acyutānanda: He can return.

Prabhupāda: That independence has to be accepted---little independence. We can misuse that. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare [Prema-vivarta]. That misuse is the cause of our falldown.

Acyutānanda: In Kṛṣṇa book it says that there was some color fighting in Dvārakā. They were throwing color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. So is... Will that be the first part of their falldown, to be in Vaikuṇṭha and think of personal lust with Kṛṣṇa's associates?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Whatever He likes, He'll do. That is God. God is not meant for satisfying you.

Acyutānanda: That man was dragged down by the people in the audience anyway.

Yaśodānandana: They took him out of...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: He was dragged down by the people in the audience. He was an agitator. [break]

Prabhupāda: This preaching work is a great fight, struggle.

Acyutānanda: It is very struggle.

Prabhupāda: So you are all soldiers. Even if you lay down your life by fighting, you are recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will see that "This devotee has laid down his life," so He'll... He's... Asaṁśayam. Asaṁśayam. Mām evaiśyasy asaṁśayam. So let us go on fighting. Even we die, what is that? We are going back to... Jīvo vā māro vā. A Vaiṣṇava, a sādhu, either he lives or dies, he is under the protection of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvo vā māro vā. [break] So if he dies in the battlefield, he goes to heaven. [break]

Acyutānanda: Now, in the past year, though, Communism has come under many attacks in the magazines and newspapers.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: Communism has been openly attacked as failure.

Prabhupāda: Communism?

Acyutānanda: Yes, many places.

Prabhupāda: It is a failure.

Yaśodānandana: There was a recent issue of Newsweek.

Acyutānanda: I... I think, only in the world, that is the real country where people are really starving, in Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia, yes.

Acyutānanda: Now they're having drought, and trying to get wheat from a freezing cold land. And they have their favorite class, also. The Party members are only a fraction of the population, and they get all the benefits.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: So they have their caste system also. It was created out of envy...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: ...for the... That's all.

Prabhupāda: I think I have discussed this.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Marx's failure.

Acyutānanda: ...they cannot take the greed out of man. That was right on the head. That is the exact point, that they are suffering for the greed of the vaiśyas. So they kick out the vaiśyas, but then they are also more greedy.

Prabhupāda: They are greedy.

Acyutānanda: Plus they are low class.

Yaśodānandana: Plus the worst thing is that they do not accept any form of religion whatsoever.

Acyutānanda: The..., the Russian atheist Communism was because the Christian Church used to favor the vaiśyas, so they buried them together. In their hatred for the vaiśyas, the Church also was buried. Very blind, that.

Hari-śauri: Yes, that's always been one of the main criticisms against the Catholic Church. They have so much money and land.

Acyutānanda: He said, "Religion is the opiate of the people." So there was a cartoon that Marx came back in 1976, and they said, "No, opium is the religion of the people."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: "Now opium is the religion of the people, because everyone is taking drugs. You say religion is the opiate. Now opium is the religion." They think there should be no private property. There was... They are discussing this in Indian Parliament now. They should abolish private property and abol... Women should not wear ornaments.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Acyutānanda: They're discussing in Parliament.

Prabhupāda: In our?

Acyutānanda: In India, Congress. Ornaments should be banned and private property banned.

Yaśodānandana: They have already banned with their land-ceiling...

Acyutānanda: They're doing it by taxing...

Yaśodānandana: With their land-ceiling, they are banning all the..., more than twenty acres.

Acyutānanda: They have a law = If you have the high, dry land, you can have fifty acres per person. And if you have wet land, rice-growing, irrigated, you can only have twenty-five acres. So I said, "Suppose you have dry land, and then you irrigate..."

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is that they have no standard idea, their. So they can do anything. And because they are in power, they can pass law whimsically, whatever he likes. [break] ...that bābu candra mantrī.[?] You know this?

Acyutānanda: "Many kings and many..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bābu candra rāya. It is a sarcastic word, bābu, bābu candra. Mean a foolish...

Acyutānanda: Foolish king.

Prabhupāda: And bābu candra mantrī. Another foolish mantrī. One, one foolish, king; another foolish is ministers. So that is going on. All the rascals, they are getting vote. One is becoming president, another is becoming the prime minister. But both of them are rascals.

Acyutānanda: The..., the law they are passing now is that the president and prime minister under no case can be brought in court.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is good.

Acyutānanda: They can do anything.

Yaśodānandana: I think that some of the comments of Your Divine Grace, some of the purports of the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if they come to the notice of the Indian government, it may give us some... They may seriously consider about banning, because in that one purport you openly criticize how unfortunate the citizens are because they have a woman as the prime minister, and in another purport you openly say that the citizens should keep their..., some of their treasury secret, which is against the principle of their income tax.

Prabhupāda: So, I have... There is no support in the śāstra?

Yaśodānandana: There is support, but according to their idea and their so-called...

Prabhupāda: Then they confront Bhāgavata. Bhāgavatam...

Gurukula children: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]

Acyutānanda: ...neighborhood, Cāṇakya...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So Cāṇakya is authority. So I am quoting Cāṇakya. What is my fault?

Acyutānanda: No, they cannot... They cannot...

Prabhupāda: Cāṇakya is authority. Otherwise, why you have named "Cāṇakya Purī"? He's as good as Gandhi and other big, big men. So it is said, viśvāso naiva kartavyaṁ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca [Cāṇakya Paṇḍita]. I am innocent. I am quoting authority.

Acyutānanda: Yes. Yes, you can say that is the statement of Cāṇakya. One foolish man... I was saying, "Some...," in my lectures, "some foolish scholar has written that because Kṛṣṇa is black, He is a scheduled caste." So there was a scheduled caste man in the audience who became educated. So he took offense = "Well, maybe Kṛṣṇa was the leader of the scheduled caste." So I said then, "That is the statement of some scholar. You cannot criticize me. I am quoting a scholar." The audience shouted him down too. [break] Śūdras and yavanas may become brāhmaṇas, but many of them don't.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: So many born śūdras are śūdras, many times.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: But artificially the government process is to give benefits and prestige to the harijanas without being qual...

Prabhupāda: Without training.

Acyutānanda: Training.

Prabhupāda: Without making him harijana...

Acyutānanda: A harijana may become a brāhmaṇa, but sometimes a harijana is a scheduled caste.

Prabhupāda: Harijana means methara [?]. As soon as he comes, if he says, "I am harijana," then immediately you understand that he is a sweeper.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the position.

Acyutānanda: And now, in many cases, they forcibly occupy some land, and they create disturbance, and the local people set fire and drive them out. We call a barber...

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha. Anyone who's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a mūḍha, bās. Narādhama. Bās.

Acyutānanda: We call a barber, and he shaves one, and we said, "Now sharpen again," and he does not bring his stone. "Go back and bring your stone." But even in the free society, American society, they have union. And that is caste. To protect the employment, one union man cannot do the work of another union or he'll put one man out of work. So they stay in their place. So that is sva-dharma and para-dharma. So the same principle is natural, svābhāvika, again appears naturally. Hmm? Just like we... In my house we purchased a piano. One union is hired to bring the piano from the shop to the lorry; another set of workers will lift the piano and put it into the lorry; and another union will take the..., from the lorry into your house. So you have to hire about nine different men, because they'll say, "No, now our work is finished up to this point."

Prabhupāda: In America?

Acyutānanda: Yes. And the other union is the truck driver. And no man will do the other work. Like in India, if you hire a woman to wash the pots, if you tell her to wash the pāyakhānā[?], she will not go. Another woman you have to get. And that protects them. That protects their employment opportunity.

Prabhupāda: Division of labor.

Acyutānanda: Division of labor. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...gradually no simple life. Struggle for existence, very, very...

Acyutānanda: People confuse change for progress. When it is just changed and done in a more complicated way, they think it is called progress. That is also the Communist thing when there is protest = "Oh, well, you have to accept change. It's natural. It's a natural change."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is communal thought.

Acyutānanda: "Times are changing. You have to move. You have to change with the time."

Dayānanda: Mao says, "Revolution. Constant revolution."

Acyutānanda: Yes. I asked one man. I said, "What do you have to show? What is the results? What is the results of the change? The people are still living in a hut." He says, "The struggle is what we have to show---that we had a struggle. People are not just sitting by and being exploited, but they are now struggling."

Prabhupāda: No, that is already found...

Acyutānanda: Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8].

Prabhupāda: ...in the Bhagavad-gītā = manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. This is the nature's law. What you have got to say about this thing? Nothing. It is already there. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "Although they are My part and parcel," mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ, still, "because they have been predominated by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses, they are struggling." So our propaganda is "Stop this sense gratification and mental concoction. Then the struggle will cease. And if you still abide by the senses and mental dictation, then you'll have to suffer." [break]

Acyutānanda: ...a bullock can pull it out. Bullocks can pull it out. And fifty years ago, they would have the bullocks [indistinct]. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...if does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he remains a fool and go on, all things foolish. I will suggest something; you'll suggest something; he'll suggest something. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ [SB 5.18.12].

Acyutānanda: Travel by the speed of mind.

Prabhupāda: Mental concoction. They'll never be able to come the right conclusion. Simply they'll create disturbances. That's all. Utpāṭyaiva kalpate.[?] Just see. He is working so hard, getting money. Still he cannot provide a nice dehi[?]

Acyutānanda: He'll gamble his money.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Acyutānanda: They will gamble.

Prabhupāda: For gambling, they have got money, eh? [end]