Morning Walk , Māyāpur , 1976-02-09

Prabhupāda: ...from the Bhāgavatam. So this should be mentioned. It is not only a temple, but a planetarium according to Bhāgavatam, where which planet is situated, where is Vaikuṇṭhaloka, where is Goloka Vṛndāvana, where is Mahar...

Devotees: Wow!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want a real planetarium, just like in the West. Oh, boy! That will...

Jayapatākā: That's what I told them, Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: ...that this is not a temple; this is like a big cultural exposition, museum, planetarium.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Boy, Prabhupāda, the people will pay... Everyone will pay a rupee to go in and see that. One rupee for that, one rupee to ride the escalator.

Prabhupāda: And there will be escalator to take them to different planetary system. Mention there.

Bhavānanda: My father... In those planetariums, they use a machine in the center that shoots out light. My father helped to invent that, so we could probably...

Prabhupāda: So bring your father. Father and son, both together. He is... Where he is?

Bhavānanda: In America.

Prabhupāda: So call him. He'll not come?

Bhavānanda: I don't think so, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Demon?

Bhavānanda: No, no. He reads your Bhagavad-gītā every night.

Prabhupāda: Then? Then why he'll not come?

Bhavānanda: I think he's too much attached to my mother.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] Your mother is not old enough? What is the age of your mother?

Bhavānanda: Sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: Oh, still she is attractive? [laughs] A girl of sixty-eight? That's nice. Very good husband. And what is your father's age?

Bhavānanda: Sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: And mother?

Bhavānanda: Sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: Same age.

Bhavānanda: Same.

Jayapatākā: American system.

Prabhupāda: No, here also, some cases. Gandhi's wife was one year older than Gandhi. Yes. Kaustubha Gandhi, she was seventeen years old, and Gandhi was sixteen years old, and they were married. There are many cases.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was arranged by their parents, or they did it themselves?

Prabhupāda: Yes, by their parents. Except in Bengal, in other provinces they do not take much care of the age. Generally the bridegroom is older. Boy is older than the girl. [break] ...was married, he was eleven years old.

Hṛdayānanda: Eleven years old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And his wife, my mother-in-law, was seven years.

Devotees: Wow!

Prabhupāda: Dr. Rajendra Prasad, the president, he was married when he was eight years old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: [laughing] How old was his wife?

Prabhupāda: [laughs] He was sleeping. The marriage party goes to the bride's house. So it was to be... The time fixed was at twelve o'clock or one o'clock. So the bridegroom was sleeping. So all the men made = "Oh, get up! Get up! You have to be married! Now you get up! Get up! Get up!"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He didn't understand.

Prabhupāda: He did not know what is marriage. "Get up! Get up! You have to be married now."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So in such cases they would live separately, though, until they grew older.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Until the girl is twelve, fourteen. She must be pub..., be puberty period. Then...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still, they know who they are married to.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they don't have any anxiety.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...age was at that time eleven years. So she came to live at the age of thirteen years, and at fourteen years she gave birth to a child.

Hṛdayānanda: How old were you, Prabhupāda, when you...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: How old were you when you got married?

Prabhupāda: I was student, so we were living separately. When she was thirteen years old, after puberty, then she was at... But there are many mothers still---the difference between the child, first child, and mother, twelve years. There are many mothers. At twelve years they gave birth to a child, especially in Bengal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America that is considered very horrible.

Hṛdayānanda: Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Catastrophe.

Prabhupāda: All my sisters were married within twelve years. My second sister, she became twelve years, and I heard my mother become so disturbed = "Oh, this girl is not being married. I shall commit suicide." [laughter]

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At twelve!

Prabhupāda: Twelve years. And she was given to a boy, my brother-in-law, for the second marriage. Means that my brother-in-law lost his first wife, and still, he was twenty-one years old. My sister was twelve years old and brother-in-law was twenty-one. In the śāstra... I do not know exactly what is that śāstra, but they say that if the girl before marriage has menstruation, then the father has to eat that menstrual liquid. Means it is, mean, very strict. And if the father is not living, then the elder brother has to eat. [break] ...ity of getting the girl married rests on the father. In the absence of the father, the eldest brother. The girl must be married. That is it. It is called dāya, kanyā-dāya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dāya.

Prabhupāda: Dāya. Dāya means legally inheritance. That is called dāya. Just like your father's money you get automatically. So similarly, kanyā-dāya means to get the girl married is a dāya. You cannot refuse it. It is incumbent; you must do it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So many of our..., the girls in our Society, they have reached that age, but they are not getting married.

Prabhupāda: No, your society is different. Now it is here also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean in ISKCON, in our Society.

Prabhupāda: No, ISKCON is not going to be social reformer, but as far as possible, we can help. Our main business is how to make everyone Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is our business. We cannot take up, but if possible, we can take up all the system of varṇāśrama.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If varṇāśrama is neglected, then how can there be proper functioning of society?

Prabhupāda: No. If the society chants Hare Kṛṣṇa seriously, then it is all right. Never mind whatever is done. It doesn't matter. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the power of hari-saṅkīrtana. If one is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so all benefit is there. So long in the bodily concept of life, we require this varṇāśrama-dharma. Otherwise there is no necessity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu you have read in the eighth chapter, Madhya-līlā, talk between Rāmānanda Rāya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu? So "Perfectional life, how begins?" This question was raised by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Rāmānanda replied, "It begins with the varṇāśrama-dharma, regulated social life."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He rejected that.

Prabhupāda: Not rejected. "Yes, it is not very important." Eho bāhya: "This is external." Āge kaha āra: "If you know something more." So the varṇāśrama-dharma is a good help undoubtedly, but it is not important for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise how could I start this movement in the Western country? There was no varṇāśrama-dharma. But that did not hamper my movement. Now people are surprised = "How these people have become such great devotees." So it was not based on varṇāśrama-dharma. No. Because the whole movement is spiritual. It starts from the spiritual platform, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param [SB 10.14.58]. Now just like here is a gap. So you can go by the bridge, and if you can jump over, that is also going. That is also going. So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious means to jump over to the spiritual platform immediately. And this varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, varṇa-tyāga, karma-tyāga, these are different steps only. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious seriously, then you jump over all these steps; you go immediately. That lift and the staircase. By staircase you go step by step; by lift you can go immediately, faster.

Hṛdayānanda: Even some of these women, they're not married but they are serving Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Striyo śūdrāḥ tathā vaiśyās [Bg. 9.32]. This striyā, generally they take it, "Even she is prostitute," striyā. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim: "They can also go back to home, back to Godhead." Māṁ hi pārtha... If he takes Kṛṣṇa very seriously, then everything is possible. No impediment. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa... Devotional service is so strong that it cannot be checked by any material impediments. The smārtas, they are thinking like that, "How these mlecchas and yavanas can become a brāhmaṇa?" But they do not know that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness one can jump over. Māyām etāṁ taranti te. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. Māyā is very strong. Therefore there are gradual process. Varṇāśrama-dharma, karma-tyāga, this, that, so many things, pious activities, rituals. But this is the process, step by step, to cross over māyā. But Kṛṣṇa said, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Anyone who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa sincerely, immediately he crosses over. As Kṛṣṇa says in another place, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi [Bg. 18.66] = "I'll do immediately." So māyā means pāpa. Unless one is sinful, he cannot be in māyā. So if one surrenders, then he, means, immediately crosses over māyā. So these smārta brāhmaṇas, they consider this thing. They are thinking, "How a person born in other families, they can become brāhmaṇa?"

Hṛdayānanda: So they have no faith in devotional service.

Prabhupāda: No, they are...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was the conclusion last night with Caitya-guru and Mr. Motilal. I couldn't follow in... [break]

Prabhupāda: Then you come to Gītā's instruction, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. And Nārada Muni also says that one must be qualified, not the birth. Just like this Mullik, and we had the same gotra, but the marriage cannot take place within the same family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Within the gotra. In the same gotra.

Prabhupāda: The same title, De, and same gotra; therefore it is the same family. That is the proof. So in the same family there cannot be any marriage. Sa-gotra. Sa-gotra-vivāha-niṣedha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So no member of your family could have married someone in the Mullik family.

Prabhupāda: No. There is another Mullik family. They are different from our family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not De's.

Prabhupāda: They are not De's. They are Sils.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cee?

Prabhupāda: Sil. Their title is Sil.

Bhavānanda: Sil. Sil.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Sil.

Prabhupāda: Sil Mullik and De Mullik. There are two Mulliks. Their gotra is also different. So in the marriage, before marriage taking place, one has to calculate whether they belong to the same family, same disciplic... Then, if it is the same, the marriage will not... Same blood will not be accepted. Same family means same blood. So throughout the whole world same blood is not allowed, marriage.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's going on other places in the world too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All over the world. They say that what will happen... One thing that will happen is that if there's any... Of course, this is scientists' explanation. If there is any weakness within the family line---that means bodily weakness, mental weakness or anything...

Prabhupāda: No, even it is not weakness, it will create weakness, same blood. The different blood will create some incentive, different flow of blood. That is scientific. But who cares for that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays...

Prabhupāda: The Muhammadans, they accept the same blood. Therefore they are not very intelligent. Throughout the whole world the Muhammadans are not very intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They marry within their family.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And uncle's daughter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Uncle's daughter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The father and his brother, so his daughter, his son can marry.

Bhavānanda: First cousins.

Prabhupāda: First cousin, yes.

Jayapatākā: There was some case of that in the royalty in France, and they got some bleeding disease from that---hemophilia. If they got any cut, then that would never heal. It would only bleed until they died.

Hṛdayānanda: Really?

Hari-sauri: The Russian royal famly was like that.

Prabhupāda: So it is very scientific not to get married of the same blood.

Jayapatākā: Many people ask us what gotra we are. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: You are acyuta-gotra. You can say acyuta-gotra. Acyuta means never falls down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Never falls down.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is such a gotra as that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, acyuta-gotra. All devotees are... We are identified with Kṛṣṇa's family, acyuta-gotra. [break] ...madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta [Bg. 1.21]. Acyuta is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa conscious man means acyuta-gotra. [end]