Morning Walk , Māyāpur , 1976-01-19
Prabhupāda: Nobody knows.
Jayapatāka: The volume is a million times more than the earth. Don't know the circumference. They say the sun is a million times bigger than the earth, volume. [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cleaning, pūjārīs, cooking.
Saurabha: Cleaning is very big job to maintain, especially with exhibitions that...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maintenance.
Jayapatāka: We can get a lot of people, village people, to come and live without pay and do the cleaning, but they won't be productive. I mean, they'll have to be supported by the temple. They'll just be cleaning all day.
Prabhupāda: Supporting is no problem. To everyone we can give place and food. There is no problem.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If there is an escalator in the building, simply the proceeds from people going on that escalator, Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be income.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...will be a huge income. I'm certain thousands of people will come daily just to ride that escalator. [laughter] Because even now a few hundred or more---five hundred to a thousand people---come every day just for darśana. So these will all pay a rupee. And if this building is there, that will be ten times the number of people. It'll be a gigantic income.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [Bengali] [break] ...Mādhava Mahārāja's sisya? No.
Bhavānanda: Mādhava Mahārāja?
Jayapatāka: Gosvāmī. He used to be in charge of the agriculture [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Oh. [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...all of the buildings all the way around, it will look very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: With those small little buildings all around, it will look very nice.
Jayapatāka: What small little buildings?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're planning to build them, one-story buildings. [break]
Jayapatāka: ...we should have a mosaic floor or a colored cement floor? What standard that should be?
Trivikrama: Good standard. [break]
Prabhupāda: You can get mosaic tiles.
Jayapatāka: It is no cheaper. We make the mosaic ourselves. We manufacture here.
Prabhupāda: So digging must begin today? The men are there for digging? So Saurabha, you give one site plan immediately.
Prabhupāda: And order bricks, that's all. Cement and sand we have got. [break] ...any living entity having a material body, he has got soul. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. Now preach this movement. [break] Begin also building there, like this.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That piece of land right here?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When do you want to begin it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's this? [indistinct] [break]
Prabhupāda: Nṛsiṁha-deva wanted to give him benediction, blessings, "Whatever you like." He refused that. He said that "I am not a mercantile devotee that I'll get some benefit from You, but first benediction I want that let me engage in the service of Your servant, Nārada Muni." Tava bhṛtya-sevām. "Because my spiritual master gave me blessing, therefore I see You. So my first business is to serve him." This is Vaiṣṇava conclusion. So he refused direct service, but he wanted blessing that he may be engaged in the service of his spiritual master. This is Vaiṣṇava conclusion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was indebted to his guru.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly he must be. Certainly he must be. Because by the mercy, guru takes the compassion that "These are suffering in this material world." He goes door to door and tries to save him. And if one forgets guru and jumps over to serve Kṛṣṇa, he is not a devotee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Guru-druha.
Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee. Mad-bhaktya... There is a verse. Kṛṣṇa says that "Worship of My devotee is greater worship than to Me."
Śāstrījī: Mad bhaktyā yānti mām.
Prabhupāda: And Lord Śiva, he advises Pārvatī when she was questioning... Oh, there is no stair from inside? You have to go like this?
Bhavānanda: No, ladder, there is outside stair that has to be fixed yet. It is just now finished in two stories.
Bhavānanda: Outside stairs.
Bhavānanda: Metal stairs.
Prabhupāda: Where to do it? Within?
Bhavānanda: No. Outside will be fixed.
Prabhupāda: How you can? Outside, how it can be fixed?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is it going to go from?
Bhavānanda: There are ladders up to these rooms, and then stairs on an angle up to those rooms.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ladder where? Where is there a ladder going to be?
Bhavānanda: Going up this way. I'm not exactly sure how the engineering works. Jayapatāka designed it.
Prabhupāda: It has been a mistake. The staircase should have been from this, within this... Why it has not done, that? What is this nonsense, a ladder? [break] ...going to... [break] Yes.
Indian man: One person, he is coming today.
Prabhupāda: One person?
Indian man: From Krishnanagar he came yesterday and....
Prabhupāda: No, no, his rate is higher. Why should you engage him?
Indian man: So the other is coming on Monday or Tuesday.
Bhavānanda: From Calcutta.
Indian man: He is bringing a same person.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. But why should we pay him more, the Krishnanagar. He wants that one...
Prabhupāda: One rupee, eight annas, three. Why should I pay? Then? If he..., you pay him three rupees, then they will also charge more.
Indian man: Actually he told me... He said, "Our rates are very higher in Krishnanagar. Don't tell anybody that we are charging three rupees.
Bhavānanda: But we're not going to hire him. [laughter]
Indian man: No, no, no. We are not going to hire.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We cannot pay.
Indian man: It's almost double.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is trying to exploit you. They freely say, the rickshaw walla, that they will charge five hundred rupees per bīghā to others and they will charge four thousand rupees to you. This is going on. Don't allow them to paint unless the rate is settled.
Bhavānanda: We had one day guard on our front gate last week. He worked for three days. His monthly salary was forty rupees plus his meals. So after he was here for three days the rickshaw wallas, they said, "Why you are working for them for so little money? They are so wealthy." And he left.
Prabhupāda: Who is supervising this department?
Prabhupāda: Where is Tapomaya?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all our..., for our sugar cane?
Tapomaya: No, after one [indistinct]. Another two [indistinct]. [break]
Prabhupāda: So we shall pay reasonable price for all the lands.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think the price will be more than eight hundred rupees.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will take statistics for ten years and make an average. That is the way.
Tapomaya: [Bengali with Prabhupāda] [break]
Prabhupāda: ...scheme requires very huge land. So if we purchase in that way, they will go on charging more and more.
Indian man: Indira Gandhi... They have now made a new one formula called "Twenty-point formula." And in that, one part is that any Society, saṁsthā, or individual, he can keep a land, twelve acres.
Prabhupāda: Society also?
Indian man: Anyone. But gives two crops. And which give up one crop, they can keep it thirty acres. And more than that, the government will take every, and they will distribute to all the farmers.
Indian man: They are doing in Haryana and Punjab. They have taken all the land. And there are many big, big gurguras. They have a land hundred acres, fifty acres, something like that. So they have given them [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: So without government award it will be risky. They can take away.
Indian man: Ten bīghās she extracts [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: But who is working as farmer? Who is working as farmer? The government is eager to give them land, but who is working? Nobody is working. They are going to the factory. Even whatever land is still available, they are not being worked out.
Indian man: Well, in the villages there are many poor peoples who are landless, so they are cultivating... They are hiring the land and they are cultivating the land...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Some of them are cultivating. Others are going to the city to be...
Indian man: So now everybody will go. When the rich people will take their land they have to go. They will say, "How we can live with the small land?" So they will leave, move.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, so simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating---useless waste of time---and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly, the kings would give them free land = "You make your fortune---but on condition = when there is fight, you have to join." That was very easy. He possessed so much land, and he worked hard, and he got riches. Unless... "Proprietorship turns sand into gold." Unless there is proprietorship, it cannot be. So therefore kṣatriyas, they were given land = "You take land as much as you like and produce, but on condition that when there is war you have to join."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Europe that was the system also.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere that was the system. That is called... What is called?
Prabhupāda: Feudalism, yes. What is this nonsense, maintaining so many idle men without any profit? Very, very bad system. And nowadays especially, when there is atomic energy, what is the value of the soldiers?
Harikeśa: We need the soldiers to start.
Harikeśa: The soldiers, they start the war. One stands on one side, the other stands on the other side, and there's one shot, one shot, ten shots, ten shots, then mortars, then tanks, then atom bombs.
Prabhupāda: No, why this is? If you have improved scientifically, let two, three scientists keep flying and the handy atom bomb. As soon as war starts, "plom," finished.
Harikeśa: They have that also.
Prabhupāda: Then... Why also? That should be the only. It is waste of time. What kind of scientists they are? If you have actually improved in science for killing others by atom bomb, so keep one atom bomb very carefully. Fly in the sky. And as soon as the world-war, "plom." Finished.
Harikeśa: Well, then the other will just send some boats over, and all the men will get out while they're flying in the sky, and they'll just take over the country by manual soldiers.
Prabhupāda: No. As soon as atom bomb is, everything is finished. There will be no opportunity. That is their thinking = "Who will drop the atom bomb first, he will be winner." That's all. In Russia they are adopting this means. They are releasing all the soldiers for other work. What is the use of keeping so many men idle without any work and maintain them, high salary, occupy big, big cantonment camps?
Harikeśa: In America the army builds roads and bridges and things.
Prabhupāda: That's utilization. Why they should be paid for nothing?
Indian man: The small farmers who has a few acres of land, they are selling to a party, and they are getting a money. They knew that "After two, three years we will pose our set-up to the government that 'We are landless,' and the government will give us some money."
Indian man: "We will get the money now, and we will also get the land."
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same way, these people in Madras, the poor people living on the street, so the government gives them the house. Then they take the house and rent it and live...
Prabhupāda: In Bombay also they do that.
Indian man: Still gutter, and charge. When we were looking at land in Kurukṣetra, so then I found it. The people there are ready to sell it immediately to get the money. Then they will pose to the government that "We are landless," so the government will give them land again.
Prabhupāda: And then the land which he purchased now, that will take away.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And given back to them.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply cheating. That's all. What is called? Bhrama-pramāda-vipralipsā [Cc. Ādi 2.86]. Everyone is trying to cheat others, and that is the criterion of intelligence, "How I can cheat you, how you can cheat me." This is going on. That is the nature of the conditioned souls. [break] ...workers are coming today?
Indian man: He said he will bring twenty, thirty persons today.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So they will follow the instruction? They have made that plan?
Indian man: He said that if he will get the supply immediately, then he can finish, even before that.
Prabhupāda: So give him supply. Where is the...
Indian man: No, we will get that. Everything will be all right.
Bhavānanda: He may say.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Give supply and see they are working. That's all. No, I don't think it is impossible. It can be done.
Prabhupāda: Who use?
Indian man: [Bengali]
Bhavānanda: There are some people. They just leave it here.
Prabhupāda: They take gobar from here?
Prabhupāda: Then why they are working here?
Indian man: This is not our...
Bhavānanda: They collect along the road. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...all planner has stolen. And we have no such arrangement. Simply we are purchasing land; we do not know how to utilize it. [break] Whenever I come I see new bhalti, new loṭā and the old is stolen. That every time I come I see---a new set. Here also. Who is looking after? Everything is open; no control.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This morning Jayapatāka Mahārāja was talking to me. On the boat program they're having? They want to show that Bengali movie, "Hare Kṛṣṇa People." They have no projector, so he wanted to know whether the money that I want to give him can be used for purchasing a projector rather than the land purchase.
Prabhupāda: Yes, projector is necessary.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Projector would be big preaching. Our money comes from..., for preaching program. There is already a fund for land purchase, whereas there is no such fund for something like this.
Prabhupāda: So it can be purchased.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cost, they say... It costs today... A 16-millimeter projector with sound is about ten thousand rupees, new. I have a projector in America, but I don't know... I'm going to bring it, anyway, but it's not at all new. I'm not even sure...
Prabhupāda: So why new? Old is no useful?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Frankly I don't know if the projector... This projector was donated by someone, and we have no purpose for it. That's why I don't know about its condition. I keep it in the bus.
Prabhupāda: So let who is coming, let him bring it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That'll be about... They'll be coming in about a month from now. I'm not at all sure of the condition of it. In America things like that are... A very old one. It's probably about fifteen years old, ten or fifteen years. One boy joined us and donated it. We couldn't even sell it. In America things like that, if they're used, once they are used, sufficiently used, no one will purchase.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten dollars you can sell it like that for, twenty dollars. Every month or two we have to hold a garage sale because so many... When the boys join I get them to donate everything they have. I send one man with them to their apartment. Usually they are sharing their apartment or house with some others, friends, and suddenly the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees come in and take everything out of the house---furniture... [laughs]
Prabhupāda: They feel glad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Sometimes... One time I was in Boulder, Colorado. So I meet this boy on the campus, and in five minutes I convinced him to...
Prabhupāda: I have seen in New York. Many tenants, they leave their whole possession and go away. I have seen it. And for the landlord it becomes a problem, how to cleanse this. I have seen it. All table, chairs, bedding, scattered in this way, and they went away. I have seen it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Colorado I convinced this one boy to join us. He was a musician, the leader of a band. So I only talked to him for a few minutes, but he became convinced very quickly. So I asked him, "You're a musician. You have some instruments?" Because these instruments are very valuable. He said, "Yes, I have some." I said, "Well, you should give them to Kṛṣṇa, because everything that you give, then you'll get benefit. Even if sinfully you got these things previously, now everything will be turned to a positive, good use." He said, "Well, the thing is, my band, we're doing a program in the mountains, and they may be leaving with all the instruments." So I said, "Let's go." So I took him in the bus, and I took the bus to his house, and there was the people in his band, and they were about to come out of the house. They were already packed up. So I pulled the bus in front of the driveway and blocked them. Then I told him, "You bring all your members of your band into the bus." So then I preached to them. It turned out he owned all the equipment of the band---the microphones, everything. So they became very angry when they heard that he was going to become a Hare Kṛṣṇa. They were very, very angry, but somehow I made them agree, and they took all this equipment out. It was worth many thousands of dollars. They had to... Their whole band was broken apart. So many times this has happened with these bands, that one member joins us, and then they give all the instruments, microphone systems, everything. So when this happens, then we put everything in a garage and we hold a sale and sell everything. Usually they donate television sets...
Sudāmā: I had a similar experience, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Kansas with one college student who was a senior in commercial art. He had one big, large apartment and about five roommates, and he had all your pictures and pictures of Kṛṣṇa all on his wall, and Dhṛṣṭadyumna Prabhu and I went and preached to him. And I began taking all the pictures down off his wall and said, "You are coming with us because you are a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." And he agreed. So we began moving everything, and he owned everything in the house, and all his friends protested at the door, "No, no. You cannot go. You cannot take all of your hi-fi equipment and music..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't love the friend; they love all of his things.
Sudāmā: So we took all of his things in big trucks. We had to take furniture and everything. And he sold over one period of a week. And then all his friends began coming to the bus for evening āratika and prasāda, and two of his friends, they also became influenced and started chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, because they were left with nothing after he went away.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One boy who joined us in Boston... [break]
Prabhupāda: Chewing the chewed. This is going on. Material world means chewing the chewed.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think this narrow path is smoother.
Prabhupāda: Better. [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...go ahead and get the projector, do you think? New projector?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...government, Mr. Chaudhuri can do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. As soon as you stop the land purchasing anyway he can do something to help us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the summertime the colleges are... [break] [kīrtana] [end]