Bhagavad-gītā 3.27 , Madras , 1976-01-01
kartāham iti manyate
We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world, and we are getting good response because we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā as it is. This book is... Here it is written, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We do not make any false interpretation so that the reader also spoil and the listener is also spoiled.
So, so many people, sometimes they come forward to give me some credit that I have done very wonderful thing. So I reply that "I do not know how to do something wonderful. I cannot manufacture gold. I cannot show any jugglery. But if there is any credit, then the only credit is I don't adulterate. That's all. The pure milk, I don't show my expert service by adding water in it. That I do not do. So we present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. In the..., all the Vedic literature, Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Lord, person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
anādir ādir govindaḥ
In the Vedānta-sūtra it is inquired, athāto brahma jijñāsā. What is Brahman? This human life is meant for understanding Brahman. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is real education. So that Para-brahman... We are Brahman, but Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahman. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13]. He is the supreme nitya, eternal. Kṛṣṇa is also eternal; we are also eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. So Kṛṣṇa is al... [break] ...not a dead stone, and we are also living being. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. And where is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and me? The difference is eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa maintains all these plural number. He is singular number. Nityo nityānām. He is singular number. Then this singular number or plural number, what is the difference? Difference is that Kṛṣṇa is the maintainer and we are the maintained. Kṛṣṇa is the predominator; we are predominated. This is difference.
So our preaching is, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that people are searching after God, speculating throughout the whole life, but here Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, "Here I am." "No." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 9.11]. God is canvassing, "Here I am," and these people are searching after God. Just see. Why? That is explained here = ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, false egoism. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. He is fully under the control of prakṛti, and still, he is thinking independent. That is vimūḍhātmā, bewildered. So,
guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
kartāham iti manyate
The material world, especially in this age, everyone is thinking, "I am the greatest. Who can become more than me?" Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā. This material world is like that. Everyone is thinking like that. Asuric pravṛtti. Kaḥ āḍhyo 'sti mama samaḥ: "Who is greater than me?" There is a struggle for this vimūḍhātmā competition. But at the end he is under the control of nature---everyone knows it---because ultimately the death will come, and all ahaṅkāras will be taken away. "I don't care for God. I am independent. I am God"---all these ahaṅkāra, false egotism, on account of bewildered, being bewildered, these things will be finished when Kṛṣṇa will come as death. Everything will be finished. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham [Bg. 10.34]. Kṛṣṇa has described Himself that "I am death. I am death, and I take away all your possession, that's all, as death." It will be taken away. However intelligent we may be, however proud we may be for our possession, but the death is sure. "As sure as death." And when death comes---the death is also another form of Kṛṣṇa---then He will take everything.
Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu. He was very, very proud of his possession. He was controlling over the three worlds. He was chastising his Vaiṣṇava son, Prahlāda Mahārāja. In this way he was very, very proud. But when Kṛṣṇa came as Nṛsiṁha-deva, everything was finished within a second. So we should not mistake this, I mean to say, fact.
Kṛṣṇa therefore presents that "Your real problem is birth, death, old age and disease, your real problem. You are making solution of all the problems by scientific advancement, by education, by so on, so on, political maneuver, everything. It is all right, but how you are going to solve this problem---janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]? How you'll solve this problem?" Actually human life is meant for solving this problem, not this temporary problem. Temporary problem will go on. If you don't solve this problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi, then any form of life, there will be problems. Even if you are elevated to the heavenly planets, there are also problems. Indra is not very happy there, the king of heavenly planet. Although the higher planets, the duration of life, the standard of civilization, standard of comforts many, many thousand times greater than here, but the same problem---janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi---is there. You cannot avoid it.
But actually our problem is that I... Nobody wants to die, that's a fact, but death is enforced. No young man wants to become old man, but it is enforced. You cannot avoid it. So we should understand---this is sense---that we are not independent. That's a fact. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. And above prakṛti there is Kṛṣṇa.
So therefore Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the supreme controller. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara means controller, one who controls. So everyone has got some capacity to control---every one of us. You are also controlling your family, controlling your business, and I am controlling this institution, and so on, so on. Everyone has got some. In that sense everyone is īśvara. There is no fight on this point. But we are controller of a limited circle, but we are controlled also. That is our position. Not that I am simply controller, but I am controlled by higher authority. So therefore I am not supreme controller. I am controller, īśvara, but here is one, īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ. He is supreme controller. Why supreme controller? Because he is not controlled by anyone. That is Kṛṣṇa's position.
Kṛṣṇa, when He was present on this planet He practically demonstrated that He controlled everyone but nobody controlled Him. That is īśvara. That is called parameśvara. Īśvara everyone may be. God everyone may be. But Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām [Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13]. So we should understand it very nicely, and it is not very difficult. The same controller is coming before us as one of us, as human being. But we are not accepting Him. That is the difficulty. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam [Bg. 9.11]. That is very regretful. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am coming to exhibit who is the supreme controller, and I am playing as human being so that everyone can understand. I am giving instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, these fools, the rascals, they cannot understand." So God is there. We give the God's name, Kṛṣṇa; God's address also, Vṛndāvana; God's father's name, mother's name. So why... Where is the difficulty to find out God? But they will not accept. They will not accept. Mūḍha. They have been described as mūḍha.
So this morning these press reporters asking me, "What is the purpose of your movement?" So I said, "To educate the mūḍhas, that's all." This is the sum and substance of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we are trying to educate the mūḍhas. And who is mūḍha? That is described by Kṛṣṇa = na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Why? Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Why māyā has taken away his knowledge? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. We have got very simple test, just like a chemist in the small test tube can analyze what is the liquid. So we are not very intelligent; we are also one of so many mūḍhas. But we have got the test tube. Kṛṣṇa says... We like to remain mūḍha, and take education from Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We do not pose ourselves as very learned scholar and very erudite scholar---"We know everything." No. We are...
Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He also tried to remain a mūḍha. He, when He talked with Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī... He was Māyāvādī sannyāsī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was dancing and chanting. So these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs were criticizing Him, that "He is a sannyāsī, and He's simply chanting and dancing with some sentimental persons. What is this?" So a meeting was arranged between Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In that meeting Caitanya Mahāprabhu attended as a humble sannyāsī. So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī questioned Him, "Sir, You are a sannyāsī. Your duty is to study Vedānta always. So how is that, You are chanting and dancing? You are not reading Vedānta." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes, sir, that's a fact. I am doing because My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a mūḍha, rascal." "How is that?" "He said, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila śāsana [Cc. Ādi 7.71]. My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a fool number one, and he chastised Me." "How he has chastised You?" Now, " 'You have no jurisdiction for studying Vedānta. It is not possible for You. You are a mūḍha. You better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.' "
So what is this purpose? The purpose is, at the present moment, these mūḍhas, how they will understand Vedānta? Better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then you will get all knowledge.
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
In this age people are so fallen that what they will understand Vedānta, and who has got the time to read Vedānta? So better take the education of Vedānta directly as Kṛṣṇa says, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15].
So Vedānta knowledge is śabdād anāvṛtti. By chanting the śabda-brahma one can be liberated. So this, this is recommended in the śāstras:
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
So if one is actually interested how to become liberated from this material bondage, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi [Bg. 13.9]---these are the problems---then, according to śāstra, according to mahājana, one must take to this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This is our, I mean to say, purpose.
So even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was so learned scholar, every one of you know, and He was very popular leader at Navadvīpa. And when He was sixteen years only, He defeated one very great learned scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī. And he was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. Actually He was very learned scholar, and His explanation of one verse, ātmārāmāś ca munayo nirgranthā apy urukrame... He described this verse in sixty-four ways. He was such a learned scholar. So He was not a fool, but He represented the fool of this age, that "If you want liberation from material bondage..."
Because this human form of life is meant for that purpose. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... [Bg. 13.9]. This human life is meant for getting out of this encagement of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. This is human form of life. It is meant for. Unfortunately there is no education that "Why? I do not want death, but why death is compulsory? I do not want old age; why old age is compulsory? I do not want to take birth; why birth is compulsory?" These are the actual questions or problems of life. And our whole Vedic literature is meant for solving this problem. That is whole purpose. Vedic literature, Vedic civilization, is not meant for working day and night like animals only for maintaining the foodstuff and sense gratification. It is not civilization. According to our Vedic civilization, this is not civilization. This is another form of animal life.
Because Ṛṣabhadeva says, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye, tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. That is the aim. Śuddhyet sattvam. Sattva, our existence, is now polluted, infected. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. The cats and dogs, they cannot get this opportunity how to purify the existence, how to become free from these four principles of material unhappiness. They cannot understand; they cannot study Vedic literatures; they cannot take instruction of Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if we do not take advantage of our Vedic knowledge, which is found in India, then we are spoiling our life.
Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung a very nice song, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu: "My Lord Hari, Kṛṣṇa, I have simply wasted my time." Why? Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa na bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu: "I got this human form of life, but I did not take the advantage offered in this life to understand Kṛṣṇa; therefore I have taken poison knowingly. I have taken poison knowingly."
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important. It is not something manufactured, mental concoction. No. It is authorized, authorized movement. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya [Bg. 7.7]. There is no more superior fact than Kṛṣṇa. That we have to understand. And how He is superior? We are taking nature as very wonderful, but behind the nature the manipulator, the controller, is Kṛṣṇa. That you have to understand. That is understanding of Kṛṣṇa.
If... Big, big scientists, they are finding out the wonderful natural laws, but it is their duty to find out, "Who has made this law, and how it is being conducted so nicely?" That answer is there = prakṛtiḥ...
The prakṛti is very powerful. There is no doubt. In the Brahma-saṁhitā also it is stated that sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā, Goddess Durgā, she is the prakṛti power, and she can create, she can maintain, she can annihilate. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti. But she is acting just like shadow, not independently. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. So Govinda is the ultimate background. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ... And this is the Brahma-saṁhitā, written by Lord Brahmā. So... And He is personally explaining Himself. What is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead?
So we should take opportunity of this human form of life, how to understand. Even one has got this human form of life. It is difficult. Kṛṣṇa says,
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
So there are so many things to be learned about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am controlling the material nature." Now, if you are actually very great scientist, you find out how Kṛṣṇa is controlling the material... That is... Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā [SB 1.5.22]. Actually education, tapasya, means that you should understand what is the Ultimate Truth and how He is acting. Then your education, your scientific knowledge, is perfect.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said in the Naimiṣāraṇya,
So whatever you do, it doesn't matter, but try to satisfy the Supreme Lord by your work. That is the perfection of life. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam. You cannot... This is foolishness---"Oh, there is no God." How you can say so? You are completely under the control of the laws of nature, and nature is being controlled by God. How you can say that you are independent of God?
Therefore it is not very good business that people are pulling on, pushing on a type of civilization, godless civilization. They'll never be happy, because we are so controlled that after death we have to accept, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ [Bg. 2.13]. You have to... You cannot stop death. As you cannot stop... Just like a boy. If he says, "No, no, I will not grow." Father says, "My dear boy, you are playing whole day. Go to school. Learn something. Otherwise in future you will be unhappy. You will not be able to maintain yourself." So if the boy says, "No, no, I have no future. I will not become young man. I shall play," that is not a fact. You have to become a young man, and you have to take responsibility. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa said,
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
dhīras tatra na muhyati
So dehāntara-prāpti is there. That's a fact. How you can say, "I'm independent"? This is foolishness. You are not independent. How dehāntara-prāpti? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], according to your karma. In this life we are preparing ourself for the next life. How it is? Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṝn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.25], bhūtejyā yānti bhū... Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. You have to prepare yourself.
So leaving aside the black side, you take the bright side that you are trying to go to the higher planetary system, Svargaloka, Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapoloka. So you have to prepare yourself. They are going to..., trying to go to the moon planet, but according to our calculation they have never gone to the moon planet. They have never gone because, we find in the śāstras, the moon planet is situated 1,600,000 miles above the sun. And they calculate that 93,000,000's of miles the sun is situated. So 93,000,000 plus another 1,600,000, it becomes 95,000,000 miles. How one can go ninety-five millions of miles in four days? So according to our śāstra, we cannot believe this statement.
So apart from this discussion, you can go to the moon planet. That is also one of the heavenly planet. But you have to prepare for that, sir. That is karma-kāṇḍīya. You have to perform such and such yajñas. It is not that by force you can go any other planet. By force you cannot go even any other parts of the world here. If you want to go to America you have to take passport, visa and so many things. And you'll be allowed to go to the moon planet without any visa or passport? How it is possible? It is common sense. They are so fools that some rascal will take some machine and go there? That is not possible.
So we have to prepare. So Kṛṣṇa says, yānti deva-vratā devān [Bg. 9.25] = "If you want to go to the heavenly planets, you can go. You prepare yourself." Pitṝn yānti: "Pitṛloka you can go." Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām: "But if you prepare yourself for coming to Me, back to home, back..., you can do so." So if we have to prepare ourself to go to other, higher planetary system... And here within this material world, within this universe, ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Even if you go to the highest planetary system, Brahmaloka... The Brahmaloka means you cannot calculate one day's life. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. Sahasra-yuga. One yuga means forty-three lakhs of years, and multiplied by one thousand, such year is only twelve hours of Brahmaloka life. Similarly, twenty-four hours, one month, one year... So it is very, very long duration of life there, where Brahmā lives. But still, you have to die. Ābrahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. So mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate.
These are..., instructions are there, and we are trying to educate people in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if we think foolishly that "I am independent," you can do that, but we are not independent. That's a fact. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni [Bg. 3.27]. We are fully under the control of prakṛti, and we have to change different types of bodies. There are 8,400,000 different types of bodies. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati [Padma Purāṇa]. They are all stated. And this human form of life is ver..., very, very rarely we have obtained. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said that durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma: "This human form of life is very, very difficult to obtain." Somehow or other, we have now this human form of life. Kṛṣṇa said that utilize it very nicely so that the problems of life... And that knowledge is very easy. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That will solve. And Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, what He is. Where is the difficulty? Unless you make some interpretation foolishly, everything is very, very clear. So you can understand Kṛṣṇa. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then result is,
yo jānāti tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mām eti kaunteya
Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.
Therefore our request is, take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is... If the foreigners can take to it very seriously, so why not Indians? It is Indians' knowledge. Bhagavad-gītā was spoken in India. Why you are neglecting it? Why you are not taking advantage? Why you are falsely proud that you are independent? These are our questions. You are not independent. You are under the full control of prakṛti. So you have to rectify. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. That is the..., that we want happiness, but here any happiness... There is no happiness. It is simply distress. But even if we take it happiness, that is temporary. But we want unlimited, unending happiness.
So that you can have if you perform tapasya. Tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena ca [SB 6.1.13]. That is life. Human life is meant for tapasya, a little tapasya. Little tapasya. Not very difficult. We are asking these boys, European, others, that "You simply give up these four principles of sinful life," because if you remain sinful, you cannot understand God. That is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is saying, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. One who are engaged in sinful activities, they cannot. That is not possible.
bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
We have to be free from sinful life.
And now it is practical. Now we are... According to śāstra, we have prescribed, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication." Four no's. Then you become free from sinful activities. And then chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Your life is successful. It is not very difficult, provided you are serious to take it. So that is our request. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Even if you cannot give up the four principles of sinful life immediately, but you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then you gradually get strength. Just like these European, American boys. From their childhood they are trained up for this sinful life, but they have given up completely. Young men. Still, they have given up.
So the method is very simple. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then the mirror of the core of heart will be cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. And then bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. This repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, this is just like a fire in the forest. Nobody wants it, but it is forced up on us. Just like nobody wants to set fire in the forest, but it takes place naturally. Similarly, if you remain in this material world then you have to be, I mean to say, put into these tribulations of materialistic way of life. There is no escape. Saṁsāra-dāvānala. It is just like dāvānala. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. As soon as you understand that "I do not belong to this material world"---brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]---then all problems of life is solved. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. This is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. So as soon as one is cleansed of the dirty things in the heart, then he can understand that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. My duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa. So let me be engaged in His service and become successful in this human form of life."
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]
It is Kṛṣṇaism. [aside:] What is this? Stopped? [break] Hinduism means a type of faith, or Muslimism is type of faith. But... As it is described in the English dictionary, religion means a kind of faith. But it is not that type of religion. It is a compulsory fact. Just like sugar is, compulsorily must become, sweet. If sugar is not sweet, that is not real sugar. Chili is not hot---that is not real chili. Similarly, we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Our duty is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no question of faith. It is not the question of faith. You may have faith in Hinduism; tomorrow you may have faith in Christianism. Or you may have faith in Christianism, tomorrow in Muhammadan... This kind of faith is not Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a compulsory. Just like laws of the state = it is not that it is meant for the Hindus, or for the Muslims, for the Christian. It is meant for everyone. Similarly, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, so it is compulsory to revive our consciousness that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not a question of faith. Faith you may accept or do not accept, but here it is a question of "must." You must revive your Kṛṣṇa consciousness; otherwise you will suffer.
Mahāṁśa: Any other question? Any other question, please?
Indian (2): If I understand Bhagavad-gītā [indistinct], Kṛṣṇa has given different type of methods for different type of people of different advantages. He's talking about different types of [indistinct Sanskrit], all these things. And also [indistinct] Arjuna questioned Kṛṣṇa. He asked the difference between the two forms of worship. One is the worshiping the form; other is worshiping the guṇas. And actually we find it difficult to understand. What can you enlighten us on this point, that why Kṛṣṇa has given a different type of path which can be followed by different people and these two different type worships? One is the form worship; another is the formless worship, which He explains to Arjuna.
Prabhupāda: The personal form and impersonal form, there are two conception. But Kṛṣṇa explains this, that mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4]. Avyaktam, impersonal. That is another form of Kṛṣṇa. He says, mayā: "By Me." "I am all-pervading." Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. That is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Because He is expanded everywhere, that is impersonal. And... But as māyā, He says, "by Me." Then He's person.
So the whole creation is Kṛṣṇa's expansion of energy. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is also the same quality---heat and light---as the sun globe or the sun-god. But the sunshine is impersonal, and the sun globe is localized. And within the sun globe there is sun-god. So that is the main source of everything. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. The brahma-jyotir is also staying in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the source of brahma-jyotir. So impersonal or personal, whatever you take, that is Brahman. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. But the beginning, origin, is Kṛṣṇa. That Kṛṣṇa explains, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. Either you take impersonal Brahman or localized Paramātmā, whatever you take, that is emanation from Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].
So, of course, if you worship impersonal form, brahma-jyotir, that is also Kṛṣṇa. But Kṛṣṇa has said, kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām [Bg. 12.5]. If you want to approach the Absolute Truth through the impersonal form, then it will be little difficult. Perhaps you may not reach the ultimate goal. You may fall down. There are so many instances. We have seen in India so many big, big sannyāsīs, they give up this world---brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā---but after some days they come down to the jagat and engage themselves in political... [break] Why? They could not stay in the Brahman stage. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam = ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. By concentrating on the impersonal form they think that they have become liberated, but actually that is not. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ.
So impersonal conception is not purified intelligence. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. You may think that "I have become liberated," but it is not. Why? Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. After so much trouble and austerity, penances, you may acquire the position in the impersonal Brahman, but there is chance of falling down from there. Patanty adhaḥ. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ: "Because they could not find out how to worship Your lotus feet." So unless you come to the personal form of the Absolute Truth, there is difficulty and there is chance of falling down. [break]
He never said, "My avatāra." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇam. Otherwise he'll be misguided.
Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam [Bg. 18.66]. This is the most confidential information. Guhyatamam. Sarva-guhyatamam. So if you want to take the most confidential instruction of Kṛṣṇa, then mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is wanted.
Indian (3): Can I put a question, sir? I take Christianity as... [break]
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Harikeśa: He says he takes Christianity as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What do you say?
Prabhupāda: Everything is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is question of degrees. Mama vart..., pārtha... What is that verse? Vartante mānuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ. Everyone is searching after Kṛṣṇa, but they are forward to some step. Suppose Kṛṣṇa is there on the top, and it is one hundred steps. So somebody has covered five steps, somebody has covered ten steps, somebody has covered hundred steps, like that. So everyone is searching after Kṛṣṇa, but there is degrees of realization of Kṛṣṇa. So either Christian, Muhammadan, or any, they are searching after Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. But it is a question of degrees, how far they have gone forward. The last stage is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the final stage.
Indian (4): Swāmījī, is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a development of this, only of our Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: No, it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is not..., nobody's property. It is Kṛṣṇa's instruction.
Indian (5): Swāmījī, what is the color of Kṛṣṇa? It is blue or black? Not according to śāstra, but your experience.
Prabhupāda: So if you kindly advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will understand. [applause and laughter]
Indian (6): What is the main purpose of meditation? Main purpose of meditation?
Prabhupāda: What is that? Meditation? Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. This is meditation, that by meditation that try to find out Kṛṣṇa within your heart. Because Kṛṣṇa is situated everyone's heart = īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. So that is dhyāna---find out. In the śāstra we understand, "Kṛṣṇa is within my heart." And if you meditate, try to find out Kṛṣṇa, then, if you are fortunate, you'll be able to see Him. This is meditation.
Indian (7): My question is whether the name Kṛṣṇa existed prior to Dvāpara-yuga.
Mahāṁśa: Whether the name Kṛṣṇa existed prior to Dvāpara-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Existed prior to...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is always existing. Those who are expert, they are seeing Him. Kṛṣṇa is... Just like Brahmā, Brahma-saṁhitā. He mentions Kṛṣṇa = īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So many, many Dvāpara-yugas before, many millions of Dvāpara-yugas before, he mentioned Kṛṣṇa. Do you understand it? Brahmā said. Brahmā is the first creature in the creation. Many millions of years ago he uttered this word, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1].
Indian (8): Is Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā different from the one in Bhāgavatam?
Pūrṇimā-candra: Is Lord Kṛṣṇa in Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is one.
Indian (9): May I ask a question, sir. The movement is very popular in the USA and few other countries. To my experience it is not quite popular... This is the country where Kṛṣṇa originated, in India... Not so much in India.
Prabhupāda: It is very popular here also. Otherwise why you have come here? [laughter]
Indian (9): But it is not so popular.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is popular in India very much. Every house, they observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. [applause] Unfortunately you are forgetting. You are forgetting this. That is the misfortune. [laughter]
Indian (10): Swāmījī, to be of service to Godhead is it necessary to renounce the regular life?
Prabhupāda: No. Regular life... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gītā. So before understanding Bhagavad-gītā, he was a soldier. So after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, he remained a soldier. He did not give up the battlefield---"Now, Kṛṣṇa, I have understood. I give up everything. I am now going to be sannyāsī." No. That is not required. You have to understand what Kṛṣṇa wants you to do. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That you can do in any position. It doesn't require. Karma-phala-tyāga. That is advised by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. We have manufactured different types of religious system. And they can be grouped. Some of them are within the group of tyāga, and some of them are within the group of bhoga. Bhoga and tyāga. The karmīs, they are after bhoga, and jñānīs, they are after tyāga. Kṛṣṇa says that "You have to give up both of them, this bhoga and tyāga, both of them. You have simply to surrender unto Me." There is no question of bhoga and tyāga.
Indian (11): [indistinct] But how do we just to meditate and get in touch with that Brahman? He is the thing there that we shall find. Everyone has to know all these [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: It does not say that you go everywhere...
Indian (11): But simply they say that you just have to meditate, transcendental meditation...
Prabhupāda: No, what they say, I do not know. I know what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. [laughter]
Indian (11): I wanted to know...
Prabhupāda: We are not concerned with others. We are pushing on... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means our mission is to present before you what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. We are not concerned what other says. We are not con...
Indian (12): Can you see Lord Kṛṣṇa by meditation?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is in the Sixth Chapter. Mat-para. And He has explained,
śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ
sa me yuktatamo mataḥ
That is first-class yogī, who is always thinking, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare." He is first-class yogī.
All right. We have taken. Now no more. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You join with us. [end]