Morning Walk , New Delhi , 1975-12-14
Prabhupāda: Who is giving the tree food? Huh? [Hindi] Stout and strong. What is the answer? Who gives them food?
Tejiyas: Kṛṣṇa is giving.
Prabhupāda: But these rascals, they cannot understand. They are making economic development. They have no program for economic development. How they're eating?
Harikeśa: Well, they're not in very good shape, either. I mean they have to stand...
Prabhupāda: But you are also in not very good shape.
Harikeśa: But I mean I can put on a coat. They're standing out in the cold.
Prabhupāda: [laughing] In your country nobody likes white; they have begun to tan. So you are not good shape in consideration of ladies. [chuckling] How you can say that it is not in good shape? It has got another lady to appreciate. You may not appreciate. One man..., lady, may not appreciate your beauty, but that does not mean you are not beautiful.
Caitya-guru: It says Ulu.
Caitya-guru: Name of that tree.
Harikeśa: Sometimes the trees just die because there's not sufficient...
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the standard, that you do not like somebody, therefore he is not liked by others. That is not very good argument. That is applicable everywhere. The point is that it is a living entity, it so stout and strong; who is giving him food? That is the point.
Harikeśa: Well, my argument was sometimes he's not being supplied the proper way, so therefore economic development is necessary.
Prabhupāda: All right. That is your... Out of 8,400,000 forms of life, the economic development is taken a few only. Why others they're developing without any economy? There are so many other living entities.
Harikeśa: Well, for example, the bees or the ants, they're..., the bees are making hives.
Prabhupāda: They are also.
Harikeśa: They are developing a big beehive.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is collection of food. The trees also do that. They are called pāda-pa. Pāda-pa means they drink water by the legs. You drink water by the mouth, and they drink water by the legs. Pāda-pa. Just like the, what is called, bats. They pass stool through the mouth. Is it not? You do not know this? Yes. [laughter] You'll find the bats, they are hanging down the head, and they're passing stool. Sometimes man also does so, when there is strangulation. That is very dangerous disease. What is called? Intestine strangulation. Then passes stool through the mouth. In Bengal sometimes they curse, "You'll pass stool through the mouth!" Yes, sometimes they do. Sometimes they eat through the rectum. Do you know that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They inject glucose through the rectum. There are many varieties of life. That is the fault of the modern rascals = they want to compare with himself, everything. They do not know that in the God's kingdom there are varieties of life. Otherwise why the 8,400,000? There are varieties. What these rascals know about these varieties? Ātmavat manyate jagat. They think, "Everyone should be like me." [sound of crows in background] Now these birds, within a second, goes hundred feet high. You cannot do. This is variety.
Harikeśa: But the bird is always looking for food.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is looking, that is another thing. But food is there. He has no arrangement for making industry. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. He has no arrangement for making industry.
Harikeśa: Yes, that's why he always has to...
Prabhupāda: Their food is there; he is simply searching out, that's all.
Harikeśa: So if we economically develop, we don't even have to search out...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you are opening factories. They are not opening factories. Nature's food is already there. And "Be satisfied, take this." That's all. That much endeavor is required. That is material world.
Harikeśa: So in other words he has to look for food, but man has to make a factory in order to look for food.
Prabhupāda: No, he hasn't got to make factory. He has got also food, but he... If, because he is claiming to be more civilized, he has complicated his activities by opening factories. That's all. He has got also food. Let everyone remain in nature's... You take fruit from the trees and drink milk, you are also sufficient. You don't require to cook even. There are fruits. Formerly all the sages, they were taking fruits from the trees and milk from the cows. That's all. They did not even produce food, like agriculture. No. Whatever nature is supplying, that's all. But you are killing the cows, eating the meat, and producing no food and making things complicated. This is your civilization.
[car accelerates past]
Harikeśa: It's a lot of fun to drive fast cars and have sex and see movies and... This is fun, you know. This is the only way to enjoy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Enjoyment is there in the cats and dogs. When you enjoy sex in palace and the dog enjoys sex on the street, the value is the same. The taste does not increase or decrease. But you are thinking to enjoy sex in big palace is advancement. That is your foolishness. Actually, sex enjoyment in the palace or on the street the same. It has no difference of taste.
Harikeśa: So then we can have sex on the street.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are going to have that, next life. [laughter] Yes. Because you are desiring, you will get this life. Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante māyā... [Bg. 4.11]. Yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. Kṛṣṇa is within you. You are thinking that "I will be very much happy if I enjoy sex like the dog." Kṛṣṇa notes, and next life, "My dear friend here is the body. You enter and enjoy." Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe... [Bg. 18.61]. He is noting down your desire. Hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. Māyayā..., brāhmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This is clearly explained. "All right, you want the enjoyment like dog, here is." Remembrance is also there. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. "You wanted to enjoy sex like a dog. Now I have given you this body, now you enjoy." Everything is there, arranged.
Harikeśa: Yes, but dogs, they have to lead a pretty miserable life.
Prabhupāda: But you have also, you have got..., not living very happy life, this human society. There are others, even Indira Gandhi, she's always disturbed. Who is happy here? I saw personally, oh, she is so disturbed. Everyone is unhappy. Who is happy here?
Harikeśa: I mean, you say that to anybody in America, they'll go, "I'm happy."
Prabhupāda: Everyone is unhappy. America or India, bird or beast, everyone is unhappy. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya. Bhaya means fearfulness. That is unhappiness. Everyone is afraid what will happen next. This is unhappiness. So either you be Indira Gandhi or a street dog, that is nature's law. Nobody is happy. That they cannot understand, that there is no happiness, and he's trying to make development for happiness. Actually there is no happiness. This is struggle for existence. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [Bg. 15.7]. With the mind and the senses he's trying for happiness, but there is no happiness. That is called illusion. That is called illusion. There is no happiness, and he's trying to get happiness. Happiness is beyond the senses, material senses. Sukham atyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam [Bg. 6.21]. If you want real happiness that is transcendental happiness, not this sense happiness.
Harikeśa: But there is happiness of the senses. When you have sex life...
Prabhupāda: When... Happiness there is, not for the rascals, but for the intelligent. Happiness there is. Unless there is happiness, how we are seeking for happiness? Unless there is immortality, how we are seeking for immortality? There is. But the way in which you are seeking for these things, that is wrong. That is the whole education. Māyā muni sthitaḥ[?]. Just like a foolish animal, he is seeking water from the desert because it appears there is water. But that is his foolishness. A human being, he knows that there is no water; it is all sand. That is the difference between animal and human being. Just like the dog sees another, what is called, image of dog in the water, and he thinks another dog carrying a bread and he wants to take it away, so his bread goes away
Harikeśa: That's a perfect example.
Prabhupāda: He loses his own bread, and there is no other bread. That's all. [Hindi] The lion, he thought there is another lion within the well and jumped over it, lost his life, that's all. This going on. So, he's so strong, lion, it is fabulously strong, but he's animal. In spite of so much strength, he's an animal. Similarly, this modern civilization, in spite of so much so-called advancement, they are simply animals. That's all. A big animal is eulogized by another small animal, that's all. Animal is animal, big animal or small. [pointing out dog on the road] Just see, he hasn't got master, and what is his condition?
Harikeśa: Pretty bad.
Prabhupāda: This is śūdra. If anyone depends on the master's mercy, he's a śūdra. Here in Delhi, New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that's all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. Now when the government will be finished, they will be street dog. That's all. This is their civilization. Immediately, if all of a sudden there is attack in New Delhi, all the people will starve. There is no food at home, and they'll die.
Harikeśa: That's a really important point, that the government takes more and more, and everybody gets poorer and poorer.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The government is also poor because they do not know how to govern. Buddhi yasya balaṁ tasya. If one has got intelligence he has got strength.
Harikeśa: Change of government means getting poorer.
Harikeśa: A change of government...
Prabhupāda: Change of government... Just like they say, a change of theories by the rascals. That's all. Change means rascal.
Harikeśa: But as soon as a government changes...
Prabhupāda: Anything change means it is the domain of rascals, pandemonium. Just like in Manu-saṁhitā it is said that nāsyāṁ svatantratām arhati, women should not be given independence. Once said, that is fact. If you want to change, you suffer. That's all.
Hari-śauri: Any deviation from absolute law means immediately suffering.
Prabhupāda: Bās, immediately you have to suffer. [reading sign on building] DTS, what is this?
Haṁsadūta: German Democratic Republic. German diplomat.
Prabhupāda: The German Embassy?
Tejiyas: This is going to be the Punjab Bhavan. For the Punjab state government.
Harikeśa: You're painting a pretty bleak picture.
Harikeśa: The picture looks pretty bleak.
Prabhupāda: Which picture?
Harikeśa: The one you're painting of society, the future.
Harikeśa: There's no hope.
Prabhupāda: No. Unless they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no hope, that's a fact. There will be more chaotic condition, and everyone will suffer and perish. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. This is already predicted. I am not painting. It is already there, I am simply repeating, that's all. I am not speculator.
Hari-śauri: Actually, most of them are aware that they're in a very bad position. Everybody is expecting another war.
Prabhupāda: Yes, just see. This is capital of India. Is this the position? We can know, understand.
Harikeśa: The problem is in America, it all looks so nice.
Prabhupāda: That means they are not yet so poverty-stricken.
Harikeśa: You ask anyone, tell anyone this in America, they'll go, "Oh, well, we've had difficult times in the past, but we've always pulled out of it." Like the Depression. They always quote the Depression of the Thirties, the Crash. And they say then there was the war and everything became better.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the academy? Nonsense. They are spending so much money in this kalākendra academy, this, that. And no place for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just see the fun. Such a cultural book of knowledge, there is no such institution, Gītā instruction institute. No. This kalā bhavan, this kendra bhavan this... They have got so many dance bhavan, and when Kṛṣṇa dances with the gopīs, "Ah, that is bad." The rascals, they do not understand where you have got this tendency for dancing. Because it is there in Kṛṣṇa. That they do not understand. Kṛṣṇa dancing is bad, and my dancing is very good. They will put so many question, "Why Kṛṣṇa dance with others' wives?" "And why you are dancing with others wife, ball dance?" Just see. Kṛṣṇa dancing is mythology, and his dancing is fact. Although His life is mythology, nothing else. [laughter] Just see = Rabindra Bhavan. What they are doing? Such a big house.
Devotee: Aravindra Bhavan
Prabhupāda: Hmm? This is Aurobindo?
Tejiyas: This is Rabindra Bhavan.
Devotee: Ravi Bhavan
Prabhupāda: What is written there? Rabindra. Rabindra's Gate. Rabindra's gate is how to enjoy illicit sex. This is his gate. He introduced Māgha-melā, inviting young boys and girls to dance together. And taking this opportunity, he was enjoying young girls. That was his purpose. They would come, the young girls would come, "Rabindra [Bengali], grandfather," and he'll, "All right, you sit down on my lap." That's all. This is Rabindra Bhavan, to become debauch. And if you teach young man debauchery, he can attract millions. There is no doubt of it. The pride[?] philosophy. Hmm? Debauchery. Allow sex without any discrimination. [observes passing hand-drawn cart] Economic development. Where is economic development for these men? There, when there was no economic development, the same thela and poor people with black cloth was there, and now the same thing is still there, so where is development?
Tejiyas: It's increasing, actually.
Prabhupāda: Nature's law you cannot check. It must go on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi [Bg. 3.27]. Bhāgavata says, "Don't try to improve all these things. It is not possible. Improve your Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be benefit for your ecomonics." [reading another sign] Sangeet Dhvari. Means they can dance. And when our men dance, what do they call? "Crazy, crazy." [reads signs] Śrī Rāma. Śrī Rāma for art and culture. So arrange dancing in this Sangeet [indistinct] here. [laughter] They'll not allow? Hmm?
Haṁsadūta: Their idea of dancing is different to...
Prabhupāda: No. You..., you sell tickets for ten rupees, then they'll allow. If you make free, then they'll...
Caitya-guru: International dance.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why don't you try? Just see? I think they allow dancing by renting the house, no? What is that?
Tejiyas: Which one? That Kamani Hall?
Prabhupāda: Any one. This one.
Tejiyas: They have performances.
Prabhupāda: But they sell ticket. So similar way, why not ours? [break] Enquire from the authority that we want to hold festival, dance and chant..., and singing; don't say chant. See if you can dance, for one week. So what will be the terms, enquire this.
Tejiyas: The Supra House, I enquired before, so they want about five, six hundred rupees per day.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Five, six hundred, suppose if we continue for one week, they may reduce. Hah? Even five hundred, then we pay one week about 3,500, so why that LA... What is that?
Tejiyas: LIC grounds.
Prabhupāda: Hah. That is 50,000, 60,000.
Tejiyas: There is one big Vijñāna Bhavan. Three thousand people can sit there. Should I organize like that?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tejiyas: For when the devotees come.
Tejiyas: It is better than Ramlila Grounds. We'll get the educated, sophisticated people.
Tejiyas: Not just the Old Delhi people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And...
Tejiyas: Then we can make very good... In the newspaper, if we get, then we'll get... We can sell the tickets also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you attend all these kalā bhavan. Utilize like that way. Have always engagement. This our chanting, dancing, prasāda distribution. And they will pay also. We'll sell books. Why don't you take advantage of this institution? It requires organization, that's all. Why LIC grounds, so much money? Three thousand daily and 40,000 monthly and so on.
Tejiyas: So much endeavor also.
Prabhupāda: And so much endeavor.
Tejiyas: This Vijñāna Bhavan we can get. It's very nice.
Prabhupāda: So do it. Am I right or not?
Hari-śauri: Programs like that would work very successfully in the West also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And what is three thousand, four thousand? You get two members and it is...
Tejiyas: No. People will contribute. No problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it immediately.
Tejiyas: Should I make that for March?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why March? Immediately! Try for immediately. Every week there must be some festival. Huh? In that way you don't require a very gigantic house. We can live anywhere, but our propagation will go on. [break] So many bhavans and so many institutions, utilize them. And there will be concession if we take for one week, two weeks. They will give concession. Sometimes they may give free, also, when they understand this is nice movement. [break]
Devotee: ...is starting to sell, to make more money. It's not very big [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: No. He has done a mistake, so he wants to rectify it. He wants to bring money, [chuckles] but if the money is lost, it is lost. Let him come back. What is there? A life saved is more important than save the money. So if I could know the address... [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. ...then I could write.
Bhāgavata: Well, we can... Revatīnandana, I think is staying in the..., by Los Angeles, right near San Diego. San Diego or... I think either San Diego or that other one, Laguna Beach. I think...
Prabhupāda: So I wanted to write him a letter.
Bhāgavata: Revatīnandana might be able to give you the address.
Prabhupāda: [greets a man in Hindi] Jaya! Hah. Vṛndāvana hogya.
Bhāgavata: Might be able to give the address.
Prabhupāda: No, if you know Revatīnandana's address, he can forward.
Devotee: Yes, he can forward.
Harikeśa: Śyāmasundara told me that he wanted to make millions of dollars for you so that he could...
Prabhupāda: Yes. [chuckles] And I am thinking when making millions of dollars, he may not be lost. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. [break] ...millions of dollars, what shall I do with? I have got money. I want one soul saved. That is more than millions of dollars. [break]
Bhāgavata: [describing Māyāpur] All the devotees..., some devotees, they live in the main building, and some devotees they work on the weaving, and some devotees work in agriculture, some devotees work in the gośālā. They make competition, that "Who will come to the maṅgala-ārati first, early?" Now they are coming one hour before maṅgala-ārati. They're in a competition, and the ones who dance through the ārati, throught the entire ārati without stopping, the ones that come early, they get this stamp, Kṛṣṇa stamp. You get twenty stamps, you get one plate of mahā-prasādam. You get thirty stamps, forty stamps... You get one thousand stamps, you can go to Vṛndāvana for darśana. You get two thousand stamps you can go for opening ceremony in Bombay. Like this he is making program. Everyone is working very hard to come to the maṅgala-ārati first, to chant the..., and to dance. Everyone is working very hard. He has increased the enthusiasm.
Prabhupāda: These are all school buildings? Hmm? They're extended.
Devotee: It's a school.
Tejiyas: They have also opened a new school. Besides this they have opened another college.
Tejiyas: Some place in south Delhi.
Prabhupāda: Oh. [end]