Morning Walk , Vṛndāvana , 1975-12-11

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Woman devotee (1): I'm trying to collect for making vases.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that?

Harikeśa: She's making vases, flower arrangements for the altar. [break]

Akṣayānanda: ...only had one sweeper, so I wasn't able to engage him. But I got some soda to do it with. Hopefully today, this morning, he will start.

Prabhupāda: Bicycle was available, forty-five rupees.

Akṣayānanda: Ācchā. Now they're 250, almost 300 rupees.

Prabhupāda: And very first class bicycle like Triumph BA. BA? What is that, BS?

Akṣayānanda: BSA.

Prabhupāda: Ha, BSA. Eighty rupees, eighty-five rupees, that's all.

Harikeśa: Viśvambhara's cost 500.

Prabhupāda: Now that must be. Everything has risen.

Indian devotee: Also, material is not so good also, the material.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Indian devotee: The steel is not so good.

Prabhupāda: Now?

Devotee: Now, degraded[?] some.

Akṣayānanda: Price has risen and quality has lessened. I think, Prabhupāda, you know the ISKCON centers you have started, they are just like actually Vaikuṇṭha, they are so nice. Even the Gauḍīya Maṭha centers were not so nice. Just like an installation of Vaikuṇṭha. They're so clean and nice. [break] ...help becoming devotees by visiting your centers. Becomes almost automatic.

Prabhupāda: If you follow the regulative principles, it will remain always Vaikuṇṭha. Otherwise, again material world.

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A free hotel. [laughs] That's all. And free hotel will not endure.

Akṣayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Spirit of service must be maintained. ...mukhe hi jivadau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By service spirit, beginning with tongue = Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is revealed, Vaikuṇṭha atmosphere. Sethjī has not come out. [break] Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Of course we accept... Ah, when you tell us to chant sixteen rounds, we accept that figure as being, in perfect faith, that you're the ācārya. But, ah, what if others we want to convince, is there any, any, ah, śāstr..., any Vedic verse we can refer to to corroborate that at least they must chant sixteen rounds, or that many number of names?

Prabhupāda: No. In the śāstra it is not said like that...

Akṣayānanda: I see.

Prabhupāda: It is said, śaṅkhya-pūrvakaḥ...

Akṣayānanda: Śaṅkhya-pūrvakaḥ.

Prabhupāda: You must fix up.

Akṣayānanda: Counting.

Prabhupāda: You must fix up in numerical strength.

Akṣayānanda: I see.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you can.

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But I have fixed up sixteen rounds, because you cannot do.

Akṣayānanda: That's all we can do.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That also is difficult.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. [laughing]

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting 300,000. So, that is not possible. You should not imitate. But whatever you fix up, you must do it.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. I was told in the beginning that you asked the first disciples to chant sixty-four rounds?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: They were unable. Then you asked them to chant thirty-two? Is that correct?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Śaṅkhya-pūrvaka nāma-gaṇa-natibhiḥ. Śaṅkhya purva, or numerical strength, must be there. And you should follow rigidly.

Akṣayānanda: So if..., if we are serious and sincere, it means that that sixteen will increase to, ah, to continuously chanting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can do also now. It's not that "Because I've finished sixteen rounds..."

Akṣayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: You can increase. But that sixteen must be finished.

Akṣayānanda: Yes. What I mean is, that's to bring us to the platform of chanting constantly. If at least we do that numerical number, finally we may be able to do, if we're fortunate, to chant constantly, day and night.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Some of the members of the Gauḍīya Matha who say they chant sixty-four rounds, but they are unable to, er, refrain from sleeping too much and eating too much.

Prabhupāda: How do you know that he's eating too much?

Akṣayānanda: I was staying at one about a year ago. When I was traveling I stayed a few days at some of the places. At night they would have a whole meal...

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Akṣayānanda: ...big, big meal. They would be sitting eating for one hour. Then in the morning they were all tired and very dull.

Prabhupāda: [laughs]

Akṣayānanda: Then again at lunchtime, and after that again sleep. They couldn't do anything else. There was nothing..., no time for preaching or for distributing books or... But yet they were supposed to be doing sixty-four rounds. That was in Vishakapatnam.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Akṣayānanda: They were all very fat.

Prabhupāda: What is time now?

Akṣayānanda: Five to seven. [break]

Prabhupāda: Coming from Los Angeles?

Devotee: Me? San Francisco.

Prabhupāda: San Francisco. Things going nice?

Devotee: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. [indistinct]. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...devotees are there.

Devotee: In San Francisco or Berkeley?

Prabhupāda: San Francisco there is different branch?

Devotee: Well, they have little..., a small temple there now. I've never been there, but I heard a lot of good reports. Cit-sukhānanda prabhu is there now. They have a small temple.

Prabhupāda: Hah. [break]

Akṣayānanda: ...devotees, your Godbrothers and the older devotees all seem to be pretty all right, but the younger ones, our age, they are unable to continue to...

Prabhupāda: [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Akṣayānanda: ...keep the standard. And many of them, they have tried to come and join us.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Akṣayānanda: Many of them, they ask to join us, even though they are initiated by others. So should we allow them to come or...?

Prabhupāda: No.

Akṣayānanda: No. That's what I thought. I wasn't sure about that.

Prabhupāda: Why they want to join?

Akṣayānanda: Because in their centers there's no..., there doesn't seem to be so much transcendental activity like you have given us. They don't get that. And if they come and see us, they see the devotees are dancing and happy and engaged, the conditions are clean and so on.

Prabhupāda: So, you can try one or two. If you find that they're all right...

Akṣayānand: Yes. Doesn't matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...if we can purchase some of those fields. But where is the man? We can grow our own food. [jogger goes past] They have now learned from the Western countries to run. [laughs] And without caring for the field. Hmm? Field working is very troublesome, and this running is very easy.

Hari-śauri: Running out of breath. [break]

Indian man: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: Now better?

Indian man: [mumbling] Only Māyāpur, I think, Caitanya Chandrodaya Mandir temple is, ah, undoubtedly, eh, the best one [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Scientists say is there any living entity in the sun globe?

Akṣayānanda: No. They don't... They say there's nothing.

Prabhupāda: Simply everything here?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: And especially in Europe and America. [everyone laughs] Hare Kṛṣṇa. They say there is nothing. They have gone there? They have seen?

Akṣayānanda: Not very intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Akṣayānanda: Not very intelligent... [break]

Jñāna: ...nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen...

Prabhupāda: So who, who put all this energy there? Wherefrom nitrogen came?

Jñāna: That they don't know.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. They do not know something, and they are speaking on the subject matter. Is it not nonsense?

Harikeśa: We know there's no life in the sun, because we can look at a fire here and we see there's no life.

Prabhupāda: But you are blind. You have no eyes to see.

Harikeśa: Well, we have our instruments, and we look through the instruments...

Prabhupāda: What instrument? What instrument?

Harikeśa: We have our microscopes.

Prabhupāda: But that is made by you, rascal. Microscope made by rascals, so what is the value of it? Anything made by rascal, is that perfect?

Harikeśa: Well it's better than some mythological book.

Prabhupāda: No. Book also, you write book, and you want to believe, others, your book. That is also book. Why do you write scientific book?

Harikeśa: Well they're proven, those other books...

Prabhupāda: What is proven? You cannot say what is the chemical there, wherefrom came. Is that proof? "We cannot say." Is that proof?

Harikeśa: Well, we know how they interact. We may not know how they got here, but we know what they do once they are here.

Prabhupāda: No, the... Knowledge means to find out the source. That is knowledge. Wherefrom it comes. There is a good example we studied in our childhood. A child was very intelligent, so he was beating on a drum. So he was very much inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming?" Then he cut the surface... [laughing] That is intelligence. Inquisitive = "Wherefrom the sound is coming?" Although it was childish, but that is innate intelligence.

Hari-śauri: Scientists are trying to do that. They are taking...

Prabhupāda: And that is all right. "In future." [laughter]

Indian devotee: The scientists say that the sun is made of certain elements, and all the stars, they are made of the same...

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you make an imitation sun here, at night so that you may save so many expenses, so much expenses for electric? You rascal. If you know the chemicals, then you make it. Hah? What do they say?

Devotee: They say there are many suns, but...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Make you one sun, if you know. Many suns, but you have not made any one of them. You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence. Huh? What do you say? Anybody?

Akṣayānanda: They cannot do.

Woman devotee (1): They don't have enough power.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Then why do you say nonsense? If you have not enough power, there must be somebody powerful than you---you have to admit that---who has made all these things. But you are rascal; you are not doing that. You are simply, er, what is called, speculating, that "In future we shall be powerful." But the powerful already is there. What is your credit? More powerful... If you cannot conceive even how powerful He is, and you are trying to become in future powereful, therefore you are a scientist. Huh? Is that all right? What is your value? The already powerful is there, who has manufactured these things. And you are expecting in future you'll be powerful; therefore you are more powerful. Just see their fun. If you are powerful, then make it, another imitation sun.

Harikeśa: I mean, seriously speaking, if we made another one, the whole place would become too hot.

Prabhupāda: Hah. So you are scientist, you protect yourself. [laughter]

Devotee (2): Prabhupada? Scientists aren't very intelligent, because today the big thing in the country politically is that the whole world thinks they are running out of energy on one hand, and on another hand the whole world believes that the scientists can solve all the problems and get to know the Absolute Truth. But yet they can't even...

Prabhupāda: They are creating problems.

Devotee (2): Yeah, they're creating problems.

Prabhupāda: [sounds of many birds in background] Birds and beasts, they're living without any scientists---they're more happy.

Harikeśa: But they're freezing in the cold, and they're...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody is freezing. That is you are speaking, but they are not freezing. Even in the coldest part of the country, Greenland, the animals are living quite nicely, the birds and many animals.

Hari-śauri: But if we preach like that to them, then they'll say, "Then what's wrong with becoming an animal then?"

Prabhupāda: Huh? But you are less than an animal, talking nonsense. Put forward the problems, summarize. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi---solve these problems.

Harikeśa: Well, we can solve the problem of birth by just killing all the children.

Prabhupāda: [laughing] That is not solving. The birth is already there; therefore you are killing. [laughter]

Akṣayānanda: Birth is still there.

Prabhupāda: No. Because there is birth, therefore you are killing. So birth problem is not solved.

Harikeśa: No, no, no. We're killing before birth.

Prabhupāda: What is "before birth"? The child is already there.

Harikeśa: No, no. The child is not born until it leaves the mothers womb.

Prabhupāda: Ah. That is you rascal you can say. Unless he has [sic] no life, how it is growing? Such a rascal...

Harikeśa: It's a lump.

Prabhupāda: ...they cannot understand. Does a dead child grow? Never. Simply speaking nonsense.

Harikeśa: That's their whole argument for abortion.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but...

Harikeśa: You just finished it. [laughing]

Prabhupāda: ...but our point is, the birth problem is not solved. If there are unwanted population, you kill them, that does not mean the population problem is solved.

Hari-śauri: They're not actually seeing the actual causes of the problems.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Hari-śauri: They're not seeing the actual causes of the problems, so they're trying to adjust to them.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hari-śauri: They're simply trying to make so many adjustments to the problems, but they are not solving the cause.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That adjustment is not solution.

Akṣayānanda: You said once, putting the weight from your head and then onto your shoulders.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Akṣayānanda: You are carrying a heavy weight, I remember you said once. You're carrying heavy weight here. To take the pain, you put it here, then again back here. But still the weight is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: The scientists came up with another one for enjoyment = that they cut this little cord that makes the sperm come into the semen, and in this way they can have sex life like anything and they're actually not killing. [man shouts greeting in background]

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Semen, what is that?

Harikeśa: Well, they say anyway, that the sperm is produced somewhere, and then it's put into the semen. So they cut this little cord, that tube or something, that has the semen go into the sperm, so the sperm never gets into the semen. So therefore they can have sex life, but there'll be no reproduction.

Prabhupāda: So one may check, two may check, what about millions? Supposing they can check in that way. But that may be possible for one, two, or a dozen, but what about millions and millions? Nature's way.

Harikeśa: That's if they... They were doing this in...

Prabhupāda: "In future." That will solve in future.

Harikeśa: They were giving prizes to people who did this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Like TV sets.

Prabhupāda: Mutual "present" society. [laughter] Hiraṇyakaśipu civilization, and we are presenting Prahlāda civilization. So this is a struggle, but ultimately Prahlāda will come out triumphant. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. And Hiraṇyakaṣipu will be killed. Jaya.

[enters temple as bell rings] [end]