Conversation , Johannesburg , 1975-10-15

[in car]

Prabhupāda: ...is generated from dog originally.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The disease?

Prabhupāda: Syphilis. In Āyurvedic it is called phairanga, means this disease is imported from Western countries. Every dog has syphilis, and they contaminate the woman, and that is distributed to man. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. Now in India also, to keep a dog is aristocracy. Yes. Especially the tail cut. Now half-cut tail, that is aristocratic dog. Now they are making dog show in New Delhi. [break]

[out of car]

Adjust. Kleśada āsa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. Material body means different ways of giving trouble. I have got one trouble. He has got one trouble. He has got another trouble. He has got another. But nobody is coming to the senses that it is troublesome. And troublesome, at the same time you'll not be allowed to continue. It has to be ended. Then another change of body, and what kind of body you are going to get, that you do not know.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Western countries, people are taught that if there is some difficulty they should not try to accept it. They should try to change the situation.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot change. What is the answer for that? Nobody has been able to change the situation. Who has been able to change the situation? Apart from birth and death, where is the change of situation that there is no more disease? So advanced in science. So why the change of situation is not there? Why people are suffering? You are creating hospital. That's all right. But where is this process that no more disease? Where is the change of situation? That is called punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānam [SB 7.5.30], chewing the chewed. They cannot change the situation, and trying again and again, hope against hope. This is their foolishness. Nobody is able to change the situation. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... [Bg. 7.14]. That is not possible, but they will not take it. "Yes, we are trying. Yes, we are trying." Dog's obstinacy. What you are trying? In the history there is no such instance that you have been able to change. It is not possible.

Harikeśa: Well, now medical science is so advanced that even if you have heart disease they can give you another heart.

Prabhupāda: So does it mean that the situation is changed---no more heart disease, or heart is never failure? It will continue. Where is the change? You may be proud with your puffed-up, false knowledge, but where is the change of situation? Futile attempt.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they will say that the duration of life years ago was much shorter than it is now, that now the duration of life is sixty-five or seventy years average.

Prabhupāda: That may be in few cases. Generally the duration of life is reduced. Nobody lives nowadays like his forefather. So where is extension? It is reduced. And what is the extension? In old age the body becomes subjected to so many ailments. What is the use of living with ailments, with toothache [chuckles] and many other things? What is the use of such life? Better die young, in good health, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the use of prolonged life? The prolonged life... The trees are also prolonged life. Does it mean it is happy? They live for five hundred years..., five thousand years. Hundred, two hundred years' living for tree is not at all difficult. But they live for thousands of years. So is it very pleasing to live like a tree for many thousands of years? Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they propose, "Prolong life"? What is the use of such prolonged life, stand up in a place without any power to move an inch, and suffer all climatic disturbances? Is that very good life? Everyone is... Even if he lives for more years, the bodily, mental and external sufferings will be there. What is the use of living such prolonged life? Hmm? Prolonged life, does it guarantee that these three kinds of miseries---bodily, mental and external, natural; there are so many disturbances---he will be free from all these disturbances? Simply dog's obstinacy, that's all.

Harikeśa: There's a Greek fable about that. There's a Greek fable that this one lady got some benediction that she would live forever, except she forgot to ask for eternal youth.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Harikeśa: She forgot to ask to always be young. So she was very, very old and decrepit, and finally they just put her in a jar, and some young boys were playing with the jar, and they asked, "What do you want?" And she said, "I want to die."

Prabhupāda: Yes. When one suffers too much he commits suicide. Life becomes very troublesome. When the suffering is too much acute, they commit suicide. So that is not a solution, "We have prolonged life." First of all, there is no prolonged. Even accepting it is prolonged, what is the benefit?

Harikeśa: Actually, even if they didn't do anything, they would live the same amount.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is destined to live for a certain period. You cannot prolong it, neither reduce it.

Harikeśa: What about all these sufferings of the body? Let's say one has a toothache or something like that. If...

Prabhupāda: No. That I have already said, that as soon as you accept this material body, you must suffer. That is the way.

Harikeśa: So if you fix one thing, another thing will just go bad?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot fix anything. You can simply think that "I am now fixed up." That is not possible. Even if you fix up one type of suffering, another type of suffering will come. So suffering must be there. The body means suffering. One should understand this, that asann api kleṣada asa dehaḥ. Na sādhu manye yato ātmano 'yam asannapi kleṣada asa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. You are trying to adjust things, threefold miserable condition, but you should understand that as soon as you get this material body, it will be suffering only. Therefore whole Vedic civilization is a culture how to stop this material body. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they are also trying. The Buddhists, they are also trying. But they are thinking that "There is no soul. Finish this body." This is Buddhist theory. But they know that this is suffering. Similarly, the Māyāvādī, they also know this body is suffering, so they want to come out of the body and merge into the existence of God. The senses are already there, either Buddhist or Māyāvāda. And Vaiṣṇava philosophy is, "Not only come out of this miserable condition of life, but enter into Kṛṣṇa's family and live peacefully." But so far the body is bad, it is accepted by all philosophies. Any kind of Indian philosophy, they will accept that body is bad.

Harikeśa: The Mormons think they go to heaven in the same body.

Prabhupāda: Rascals. Except in India, there is no philosophy.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. There is no knowledge.

Prabhupāda: There is no knowledge. They are all in darkness. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, para, paropakara. These all rascals, they are in darkness. No knowledge. Don't you see? If they had any knowledge, how they are taking care of an ugly, diseased dog and killing their own child? Is that any knowledge? To maintain child is botheration, to kill. And to maintain three dozen dogs, all ugly and diseased, they are very much enthusiastic. Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because the dog will listen to them, but the children will not.

Prabhupāda: Not listen to them.

Harikeśa: Dog is man's best friend.

Prabhupāda: Yes, doglike man's. We don't keep dog. But we don't hate dog also. Let them keep their own position. In India still, they keep dog, but dog is not allowed to enter the room. No. Outside. They are trained up in that way. When food is to be given, they will call, "Come on," and he will take food from outside and go away, always remain outside. Dog is never allowed to enter room or in the house. Outside compound, that's all. Still. No dog is allowed to enter the room and jump over the body of the master and sit down with the seat. No. [hums] What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These are marigolds. In the summertime, each one of these little seedlings, we transplant them. They give many, many nice yellow flowers with fragrance. We make garlands for Gaura-Nitāi.

Devotee (1): It was in the paper that one lady left four million dollars to her dogs, to dogs in general, to help dogs. Last week, Roosevelt family.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Four million dollars. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...also a Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

Prabhupāda: And the slaughterhouse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't care about slaughterhouse.

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization. "Killing is not cruelty."

Harikeśa: They don't do it cruelly. They do it very quickly. That's the scienti...

Prabhupāda: Will you be ready to be killed if I say that "I shall kill you quickly. You will not understand that..."? Will you be ready?

Harikeśa: No.

Devotee (2): That so-called society also puts many animals to sleep, so-called sleep. They inject them to sleep.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dogs.

Devotee (2): Dogs. They have too many.

Prabhupāda: Animal worship. Yes. The worshiping tendency is there, so if they have no information of God-worshiping, they must worship dog. One must worship, but if they have no chance to worship God, they must worship dog.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can't stop the worshiping tendency.

Prabhupāda: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So why, in the material world, if our natural desire is to worship and to be a servant, why is it that in the material world everyone is looking for respect and to be worshiped?

Prabhupāda: That is māyā. He is serving a dog, and still, he is thinking he is master. That is māyā. Instead of serving a nice person or the nice Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, he is serving a dog. But he is thinking that "I am master." This is māyā. Māyā means which is not fact. He is serving, but he is thinking that he is not serving, he is controlling, or something like that. That is māyā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the desire to be worshiped is unnatural.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [to Indian man entering:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. Jaya. This is the beginning of devotion, to be submissive. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. This is the beginning, praṇipāta. This is praṇipāta, fall down, full surrender. That you have... Therefore you are making progress. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. Question? Praṇipātena paripraśnena. Praṇipāta is done. Now you can question.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Do you have any question?

Indian man: I can't think of one now.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he can't think of one right now.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Last night you were present in the meeting? Read our books very carefully, and as soon as there is some doubt, inquire. Here, wooden house, practically none.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly bricks.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That's good. Wooden house---matchbox. So there is no, I mean to say, fire brigade disturbance.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there is fire. Yesterday, few weeks ago, across the street in the field there was a bush fire.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But in your country, always fire brigade = "Dung- dung-dung-dung-dung-tunga-tunga-tunga-gara-gara-gara...," going like that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there is always fires in America.

Prabhupāda: Because all wooden house.

Harikeśa: That's become a sport in the cities, to set fires. That's a new sport in the cities for the children. They set fires to big buildings. [end]