Morning Walk , Vṛndāvana , 1975-09-13
Prabhupāda: This is called hog life, how to maintain this body. Kaṣṭan kāmān. Kāmān means necessities of life. Very, with great difficulty... Kaṣṭan kāmān. [break] Kaṣṭan kāmān. Life can be easily maintained by agriculture and cow protection. No. They will start big, big mills, factories, motor tires, cars, instruments. Kaṣṭan kāmān. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is called ugra-karma, fierce... [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Fierceful activities.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kaṣṭan kāmān. Unnecessarily creating problems. [break] ...one after another, one after another. Formerly paper was used only for Vedic knowledge. Now the paper used for so many useless newspaper, volumes and volumes and jasusi[?], unnecessarily creating agitation of the mind. And if you explain these things they will say, "This is all primitive ideas." Modern ideas means one must work very hard day and night to get a little piece of cāpāṭi. Hmm? What is the answer?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If we don't work hard they say, "You are a burden on society."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person doesn't work hard day and night, they say, "You are just living on society."
Prabhupāda: That I am explaining. The day and night is that pig is working. That I am explaining. Then what is the difference between the pig and me if I am also working hard like that pig? Huh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no difference.
Prabhupāda: Then, why you say you are advanced in civilization? That is forbidden. Kaṣṭan kāmān na arhati [SB 5.5.1]. It is not desirable; it is not good. You are given this body different from this pig because you will live peacefully and happily. Why should you accept kaṣṭan kāman, so hardship? Actually they do not want to work hard. Otherwise why the proprietor, the capitalist, they leave the factory and go to a solitary place? Why does he go?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Prabhupāda: The other worker, he is seeing that "This rascal has engaged us in hard work, and he is enjoying. So drive him out. Kill him." This is Communism. Everyone wants that, comfort, peacefully living. Therefore this civilization, to work hard, is condemned. If hard work is desirable, why the capitalists avoiding? Hmm? What is answer?
Upendra: They say they worked hard to get there.
Upendra: They worked hard to get there.
Prabhupāda: "To get there" means?
Upendra: To get to their position they worked hard.
Prabhupāda: What is their position?
Upendra: Of relaxation.
Prabhupāda: Relaxing... I am relaxing. Why you are inducing me? I am relaxing. Then why you are inducing me to work hard? I am already relaxing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take little prasāda. That's all. Why you are inducing me to work hard?
Brahmānanda: They say you have to earn your relaxation.
Prabhupāda: But earn or not earn, I am enjoying relaxation.
Brahmānanda: You're not entitled, unless you work very hard.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That is nonsense.
Upendra: In America they say you have to pay for freedom.
Prabhupāda: No, freedom, if I have got already, why shall I pay? I have already paid. Why you're inducing? I am already enjoying. Why you are inducing me to work hard? I have paid for it. By my karma in my previous life I have already paid for that; therefore I am enjoying.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't believe in the law of karma.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization = one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population, why you are inducing, "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life---brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.
Prabhupāda: But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense satis... When his senses will be satisfied? [aside:] Jaya. Relaxation... If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."
Brahmānanda: "Misery loves company."
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Brahmānanda: That's a saying, that if someone is feeling misery, he wants other people to also enjoy the misery.
Brahmānanda: No one wants to suffer alone.
Prabhupāda: Cutting the tail of the jackal. [Bengali] "My tail is cut, so your tail must be cut." This is a fashion. [pause] That is practical. The world is working so hard, but where is the peace and happiness?
Brahmānanda: It's coming.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] When it will come? That is unknown.
Brahmānanda: Maybe at the end of this century.
Prabhupāda: And at the end of your life. Just like insurance policy = you'll be happy after death. "You go on paying now, work hard, go on paying the premium, and you'll be happy after death." This is insurance policy. And I am going to be a dog after death, and how he'll be happy? Just see.
Indian man (1): It is quite evident that miseries are growing darker and darker.
Prabhupāda: That must be, because you are under nature's law. How you can avoid? As you are working, you will get the result. Karmana daiva-netrena [SB 3.31.1]. There is superior power to supervise how you are working.
Indian man (2): Karmana baddhyate jantur vidyaya...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmana baddhyate. They do not know. Poor fund of knowledge. Rascals. Mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa comes to inform these rascals, "You are all duṣkṛtina, mūḍha." That is Kṛṣṇa's declaration. Na maṁ duṣkṛtino mū... "Therefore surrender unto Me." This is the whole purpose.
Indian man (2):
janmāni tava cārjuna
tāny ahaṁ veda sarvāṇi
na tvaṁ vettha parantapa
Prabhupāda: That is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. Although Arjuna is... Birth after birth, he is friend of Kṛṣṇa, nitya-siddha. Still, he forgets, what to speak of others. Bahūni me janmāni tava cārjuna. That means, "We are friends always. So you also appear; I also appear. But the difference is you forget; I don't forget. That is difference between you and Me. You also don't forget. That is for limited time. But the consciousness is the same. Only difference is that My consciousness is unlimited; your consciousness is limited. That is difference." This understanding is ahaṁ brahmāsmi. My consciousness and Kṛṣṇa's consciousness, that is fact. But Kṛṣṇa's consciousness is everywhere; my consciousness is within myself. That's all. The Māyāvādī interprets, yena sarvam idaṁ tataḥ [Bg. 2.17] = "One who is expanded everywhere, pervaded." But I am not pervading everywhere.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say when you become liberated then you become..., then you pervade everywhere. It's just that... They say that just now, in this position...
Prabhupāda: So when you will be liberated? What is the standard of liberation?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: By performing austerities, by studying the...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. What is the standard?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: When I merge, when I lose my identity, when I don't...
Prabhupāda: That means you forget. You forget everything. Then how you will be liberated? Whatever little consciousness was there, that is finished. Then how you become liberated? Whatever you had, that is also finished. Eh? Then how you become liberated?
Harikeśa: But what we are forgetting is just illusion anyway.
Prabhupāda: That is liberation. Then I kill you, you forget everything---liberation. [laughter] What is the meaning of liberation? They do not know even the meaning of liberation.
Harikeśa: To get rid of all these miseries.
Prabhupāda: That you can do. I can kill you; you get rid of all miseries. Finished. You are finished; your miseries are finished. That's all.
Brahmānanda: It doesn't matter whether you live or you die because it is all one.
Prabhupāda: Well, let me kill you. That's all right. It will be great beneficial to you.
Indian man (1): To my opinion, we are more liberated in... [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Your opinion, my opinion. We have to consider the fact. [vraja-vāsī passes by, singing] This is jīvan ko sabadiya tomara. This is surrender, that he is singing, jīvan ko sabadiya: "When I surrender unto Your lotus feet." That is surrender. This is liberation. Just like the child fully surrendered to the parent, he is liberated. He has no anxiety. He is confident, "My parents are there. Whatever he'll do, that's all right for me." That is liberation.
Indian man (1): We can become free from all anxieties.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is liberation. If you are filled up with anxieties, where is your liberation? That is not liberation.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: They will also say that this condition of being one with the Supreme is also...
Prabhupāda: How you become one? If Kṛṣṇa or the consciousness is there but you lose your consciousness, why you become one?
Harikeśa: Well, it's not exactly that we lose consciousness but we merge into the supreme consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Supreme consciousness?
Harikeśa: Then we become God.
Prabhupāda: No. You cannot. Then why you are different now?
Harikeśa: It's my līlā. [laughter]
Prabhupāda: Then if it is līlā, then why you are undergoing austerities? That is also līlā. If it is līlā, then why you are trying to get out of it by practicing austerity?
Harikeśa: Mahārāja Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity.
Harikeśa: Ṛṣabhadeva, He performed austerity.
Prabhupāda: No, what...? I do not follow what you say.
Devotee: He's saying that "Ṛṣabhadeva performed austerity, so therefore I am performing austerity."
Prabhupāda: You are performing, but what is Ṛṣabhadeva's position?
Devotee: He never claimed to merge with the supreme consciousness.
Dhanañjaya: But the whole thing is that the supreme consciousness is unembodied, and we are embodied right now. So when we attain supreme consciousness we also become unembodied.
Prabhupāda: How you become embodied if you are supreme? Who made you embodied if you are supreme? Then who made you embodied, he is supreme; you are not supreme. You did not like to be embodied; therefore you are trying to be bodyless. But who made you embodied? Then that he or she is supreme. You are not supreme.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: I put myself in this condition so that I can enjoy getting out of it.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: I put myself in this condition of illusion so that I can enjoy being liberated.
Prabhupāda: And so you put yourself to be kicked by me and enjoy. Just test what is the enjoyment of being kicked.
Dhanañjaya: But without pain, how can you experience pleasure?
Prabhupāda: You get this experience, how it is pleasure? I kick and you enjoy?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: The idea is that after experiencing the suffering of this material world, then liberation will be very...
Prabhupāda: Why there is suffering, material? You are supreme; why it is suffering for you?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: Well, so that when I...
Prabhupāda: So, there is no "so that." Why you are suffering?
Brahmānanda: It's suffering only for those...
Prabhupāda: If it is your līlā, then you are suffering. What is this nonsense of "my līlā"? Suffering?
Brahmānanda: The suffering is only for those who haven't..., who don't understand that they are supreme.
Brahmānanda: Those who don't understand, they are the ones who suffer, but I don't suffer.
Prabhupāda: So it is better to remain in that ignorance. Just like the hogs and dogs, they do not understand that this is suffering. But we can understand that this is suffering.
Brahmānanda: Yes. To be a dog, that's all right because the dog doesn't suffer. He is enjoying.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why you are doing austerity? Remain as dog and cat. Therefore you are mūḍha. You do not know what is suffering, what is enjoyment. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore one who is intelligent, jñāni, bahūnām jan..., after suffering in this way and talking all nonsense, when he comes to the real knowledge, then he surrenders. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān maṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. That is knowledge.
Indian man (1): Kamādinaṁ katī na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ [Cc. Madhya 22.16].
Prabhupāda: Ah. When he comes to this awareness, that "I have simply suffered, and I wanted to maintain myself by jugglery of words," then he comes to the real knowledge.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So the Māyāvādīs' philosophy is actually the supreme illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nasa [Cc. Madhya 6.169]. One is finished if he follows the Māyāvāda philosophy. He is doomed. He will never be able to accept the real philosophy. He will be absorbed in that false philosophy. This is Māyāvādī's position. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They are aparādhī, offender. Therefore they shall remain perpetually in ignorance and think himself, "I am God." This is Māyāvādī's position. Vivekananda preached openly that "Why you are thinking that you are sinful? You are God." He preached like that.
Brahmānanda: The Christians, they have a concept of sin. So when Vivekananda went to America he was telling them, "No, you forget this concept. Whatever you do, it's all right because you are God." They were surprised.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why they liked him.
Prabhupāda: No, no. They did not like. The Christian priests did not like him. They condemned him, "Oh, you are come from India, and you are speaking nonsense, this?" In those hundred years the Christian priests were conscious = "But how is this? From India he has come and he's talking like nonsense?" They questioned in Chicago speech.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: He's just fanning the fires of atheism.
Harikeśa: This Māyāvādī philosophy, is this...?
Prabhupāda: They are atheist. They are first-class atheist, more than the Buddhist. Veda na maniya bauddha haila nāstika. The Buddhists, they did not accept Vedic authorities; therefore they are considered as nāstika. But vedāśraya nāstikya vada. These rascals, they accept Vedas and preaches atheism. So they are more dangerous than the Buddhists. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's version. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bauddha ke adhika: "They are more dangerous than the Buddhists." The Buddhists, although they are supposed to be atheists, they worship the deity Lord Buddha. But they say it is māyā. And more advanced than these atheists.
Brahmānanda: The Māyāvādīs.
Prabhupāda: More... Not advanced. More degraded. These atheists, they have been taught to worship the form of Lord Buddha, and Buddha is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, so one day they will be delivered. But these rascals will never be delivered.
Pṛthu-putra: I read in one of your books so many names about different groups of these Māyāvādī philosophers. Are they still existing today and active?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who thinks godlessness, he is Māyāvādī, that's all. Anyone. All these impersonalists, they are all Māyāvādīs. And mostly they are now impersonalists.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So although we can't see it with our material eyes, their position is very precarious. Their position is...
Prabhupāda: We have no eyes to see. We see through Kṛṣṇa. As Kṛṣṇa sees, we see. This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. We are not perfect. Our position is that we are not perfect. But we are perfect so long we follow Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Just like I am blind man. I am not perfect. But if you have got eyes, if you take me, I follow you. Then I am perfect. Kṛṣṇa assures that "You surrender to Me and I will make you free from all dangers," and we accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Our method is very easy. The child is walking..., unable to walk, falling down. The parents say, father says, "My dear child, just catch my hand." Then he's safe. These Māyāvādīs, they go against the verdict of God. God says that "The living entities are My part and parcel," and they say, "I am God." So that is their foolishness. Part and parcel... Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivaṁso jīva-bhutaḥ [Bg. 15.7]. Otherwise why God says, "Surrender unto Me," if you are equal with Him? Why God is asking, "Surrender unto Me"? You are not equal. You are rascal. You are claiming that "I am equal." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. "You surrender unto Me." And this knowledge of surrender comes, Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām. "This rascal is always thinking 'I am God, God, God.' This rascaldom is finished after many, many births, this ignorance." Then he surrenders. How the living entity is equal with God?
Brahmānanda: We should return, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: Of course, they may say that "Kṛṣṇa is just an ordinary man like me, and therefore He is asking..."
Prabhupāda: Therefore you are rascal. Kṛṣṇa is ordinary man, and He is lifting the hill.
Brahmānanda: Well, that's just a story in a book.
Prabhupāda: He may be story for you. You may not believe that you have got a father, but we are not mad. You can say, "To have a father is a story," but mother says, "No, you have your father." She is authority. You can say, "Oh, it is story."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They want a historical evidence for everything.
Brahmānanda: Yes. Why doesn't Kṛṣṇa come and do it now?
Prabhupāda: He is not your father's servant, that He will come by your order. He's the supreme master. Kṛṣṇa is doing the same thing still, but you have no eyes to see. Kṛṣṇa is doing. How this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading all over the world?
Brahmānanda: Why doesn't God force me to surrender?
Prabhupāda: No. That Kṛṣṇa is not a nonsense like you. Because Kṛṣṇa has given you little freedom He does not want to touch it. That is Kṛṣṇa. What He gives, He never takes it back. It is not a nonsensical award, that "I give you sometimes; then I take it away." Kṛṣṇa does not do such. He has given you little freedom, so you can use it. Yathecchasi tathā kuru [Bg. 18.63], Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad..., "Whatever you like, you do." That freedom is taken by nature. You are human being. If you do not engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then nature will withdraw this privilege and you'll become a dog. Kṛṣṇa does not take, but His agent, māyā, will take it away. Just like the police is the agent of the king or the government. The government does not care what you are doing. But if you do something criminal, the police will punish you.
Brahmānanda: But we're going to change the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. [laughter] That is also replied, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā dura... [Bg. 7.14]. "You cannot do that, My dear sir. You rascal, you are thinking like that. That is not possible."
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they say they've already made so much progress.
Prabhupāda: You go on making progress, but you will never come to the ultimate goal. You can go on foolishly. That's all right. Just like they made progress, United Nation. What progress they have made? Huh?
Harikeśa: They made a nice building.
Prabhupāda: That's right. [laughs] There are so many buildings.
Indian man (1): But they've been going to be assassinated.
Prabhupāda: When I go that building, United Nation, I see how they are wasting money. Yes, I see.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a very big budget, United Nations, billions of...
Prabhupāda: Big, big. So many publications, so many big...
Indian man (1): They make everybody un-united.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Disunited.
Pṛthu-putra: You have written in one of your books that they are just becoming more flags instead of less.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They are increasing flags. Instead of one flag, they increasing flags. And they are trying for the last how many years? Thirty years?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: To stop wars. But they haven't stopped a single war.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: But if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme and I should surrender unto Him, then why is it so hard to find out this knowledge? Why is it that only in the human form of life... Why is it so difficult to come to this knowledge if...
Prabhupāda: Because you are rascal. For rascal everything is difficult. Easy thing is made difficult by rascals. That is the proof that you are rascal. By nature one is supposed to surrender to the parents. This is easy. Why do you do not do this? This is natural. Just like you have surrendered to me. Why? Because you think I am superior, you have to take knowledge from me. So if you have to accept some superior for your guidance, so how you can deny surrendering? You see brahmacārī, he is being taught daṇḍavat śīraṣi, by touching the head. Yesterday we were talking of that brahmacārī? That is the instruction. [pause] Who is this boy?
Harikeśa: He's Kuṇḍalī. He just came from New York.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He just came from New York. He's from the West In... He's a Commonwealth citizen. He's from the West Indies. He says he'll stay in India for the rest of his life.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. So you are going to the magistrate? You have calculated?
Saurabha: Yeah. Ten thousand bags.
Prabhupāda: Ten thousand bags. No, I wanted to construct this building with bricks.
Saurabha: Yes, but we have to make some slabs and some...
Prabhupāda: Slabs? So still you will require ten thousand?
Saurabha: No. If we do with mud, then it will be much less.
Prabhupāda: Not mud. The mortar means sand and cement.
Guṇārṇava: No plaster?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Plastering also.
Saurabha: No plastering.
Prabhupāda: No, plastering also.
Saurabha: Yeah. But it comes to about eight thousand bags if I do the whole land like that around. That is the full thing, two stories. It comes to about eight thousand. And then there's always some extra for finalizing the floors...
Prabhupāda: No, no. I don't want to use this iron.
Saurabha: No, we don't require iron.
Prabhupāda: Simply brick. So in that way you still require ten thousand?
Saurabha: We require about eight thousand, but it's best to apply for ten thousand. If we only need five thousand, we take that. They will give us that allotment.
Prabhupāda: Do it. [break]
Dhṛṣṭaketu: [sounds of airplane going over] When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute, then the airplanes would be there.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: When Kṛṣṇa would play His flute then the airplanes would come and...
Prabhupāda: Where is Kṛṣṇa playing flute?
Dhṛṣṭaketu: In Vṛndāvana?
Prabhupāda: Oh. Then why the airplanes do not come Delhi? [laughter] [pause] He is godless, and we have to fight against them. Just see our position. We have to fight with the whole world.
Indian man (1): Number of forces will increase day by day.
Indian man (1): Number of forces are increasing day by day, but they will fight adequately.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But you have done it single-handed, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Single-handed, double-handed, doesn't matter---if Kṛṣṇa is there in the background. Arjuna fought single-handed. Where is Praṇava? [Hindi]
Indian man (1): [Hindi] Everyone was very much satisfied.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted.
Indian man (1): They liked. [pause] Our Prabhupāda is kind enough to make so many [indistinct] to remove away all the evils of the world.
Prabhupāda: [aside:] Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [end]