Room Conversation with Lalita Bose , Bombay , 1975-08-21

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] Exactly what Kṛṣṇa has said. Our mission... [Bengali] Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. Bās. If you speak what Kṛṣṇa has instructed, you become guru. But if you make your own concoction, own invention, then... [Bengali] I don't speak any nonsense; except the instruction given in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is my credit. That's all. People say that I have done wonderful, but I do not know any magic. The wonderful thing I have done is that I don't speak any nonsense thing. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: What you say, you act according to that.

Prabhupāda: No, what I learn from Kṛṣṇa I say. I don't say independently. That is not my business. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. [break] How? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. You deliver your village people and become a guru. Everyone is not going to be so big that he can go all over the world. But everyone can teach within his limit---within his family, within his community, within his village, within his town, within his district. As he is capable, he can increase. But everyone can become a guru and deliver the local people. How? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. Then you are guru. As soon as you manufacture anything nonsense, then it is spoiled. That is going on. So many gurus are there; they are manufacturing. They are becoming Kṛṣṇa. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. You cannot become Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati [Bg. 18.61]. Bhagavān sakala hṛdaya... [break] Can you stay in everyone's heart? You are claiming God.

This one instance = īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛdeśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati. He is aṇḍāntara-sthaṁ-paramāṇu-cayāntara-sthaṁ [Bs. 5.35]. He is within this universe, and He is within the atom. You are claiming to be īśvara, God. Are you within the atom? Are you within your heart..., er, everyone's heart? Then how do you claim that you are īśvara? Practical. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ. Īśvara, God, God is everyone's heart. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭhaḥ [Bg. 15.15]. [Bengali] ...on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā... [Bengali] And as soon as you manufacture something, then it is spoiled. [Bengali] That is going on. The so-called gurus, they get some mystic power, yoga-siddhi, and they show it and they mislead people that he is God. That is the difficulty. We never said... Where is that book? [Bengali] ...gurus. Again he has to go? [Bengali] So far as I am concerned, these things are not there. About me, I am... In Dallas I am taking one child's hand and I am teaching them how to write a, ā. [Bengali] Where is that professors...?

Brahmānanda: Professor...

Prabhupāda: No, all these professors. Those who are purchasing our books.

Brahmānanda: Oh, the recommendations?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [Bengali] University professors, learned scholars. [Bengali conversation] We have equipped our composing... We compose and send to the press. You know something about our Los Angeles arrangement?

Harikeśa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the worth of all those machines?

Harikeśa: Oh, the composer itself is worth about seventy-five thousand dollars.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] Seventy-five thousand dollars.

Harikeśa: That's just one machine. [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...New Vrindaban... article... last year... [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...Gurudeva's remarks about their remarks. And of his...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: August 24th and 31st issue of [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] "Śrīla Prabhupāda instructs a young American student in Sanskrit at the Gurukula." [Bengali] This is my miracle.

Lalita Bose: You are changing, actually, transforming. [Bengali conversation] ....Rajneesh... [Bengali conversation] She has to go to the temple, take the prasāda, serve to... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...Kartik Bose... [Bengali] ...Kartik Bose's laboratory... [Bengali] ...Gauḍīya Maṭha... [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...Māyāpur... [Bengali] ...Vṛndāvana... [Bengali] ...Hare Kṛṣṇa mandir... [Bengali] ...Guru Mahārāja... [Bengali] They are so impressed, the way they are putting the śaṇkha and then, you know, ārati... [Bengali] The same time the door opens and the same time the śaṇkha. [Bengali] Sincere. Sincere devotee.

Prabhupāda: Sincere devotee. [Bengali] At least... [Bengali] ...hundred men come... [Bengali] They have nothing to do with the politics. [Bengali] Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. [Bengali] Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅksati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu [Bg. 18.54]. [Bengali] ...India government... [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: The project will be failure. [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...village... [Bengali] ...the cooperation... [Bengali] I like this position, dictatorship. Personally I like this. [Bengali] ...America... [Bengali] "What is your opinion about this?" Must criti... Yes, criticized policy of Indira Gandhi. [Bengali] ...Indira Gandhi is spiritually inclined. If she improves, it will be perfect. She wants to be improved.

Lalita Bose: This should be taken with...

Bhavananda: A most important piece of paper.

Prabhupāda: "Barefoot Swami draws admiring Kṛṣṇa crowd." And... Read that portion. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...most prominent person in U.S. is Prabhupāda.

Brahmānanda: "Asked about the political situation in his native India and the criticized actions of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, the swami replied that 'Mrs. Gandhi is inclined to some spiritual understanding, and if she fully develops it, the situation will improve. Democracy is not much beneficial if its leaders have no spiritual values. Mahatma Gandhi was practically a dictator, but he was a man of high moral character, so people accepted him. Dictatorship can be good, provided the dictator is spiritually developed.' "

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...Indian Emergency. You take this benefit. [Bengali] ...spiritually conscious, everything will be... [Bengali] But if it is the nasty things, the nasty and...

Prabhupāda: Politically it will be failure, but spiritually it will be successful.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] She is eager to meet him, so he should talk high level... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...because I am missionary [Bengali] permanent resident American... [Bengali] ...our visa, passport... [Bengali] ...certain percentage... [Bengali] ...so "You will have to wait for six years." [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: Mahārāja, we have to note down the point "missionary movement," and what will be the subject. You have to submit one letter... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] 1921. [Bengali] ...Indira's janma?

Lalita Bose: She is now fifty-seven.

Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven.

Devotee (2): 1920.

Prabhupāda: Eighteen?

Devotee (1): I think 1920.

Prabhupāda: 1890. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: ...foreign exchange, for the development of India... [Bengali] ...that how it is... "Can you prove?" And yes. You can send immediately? Everything is in open.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I have all the receipts with me from the bank transfers.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...ghee to Australia... [Bengali] This is meant for the executive head of the state. It is meant for. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, it is stated,

Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Rājarṣayo. It is meant for the rājarṣis. So Indira is in the position of rāja. If she becomes a ṛṣi, then it will be successful. Then it will be successful. [Bengali] ...that "You have got the position of royalty. You become a saintly lady. Then your scheme will be all successful." That is required. That I can help, how to make her a ṛṣi.

Lalita Bose: No, she is full of humility... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Then not only the people of India will be benefited but also the whole world will be benefited. And you have got that sampatti, Bhagavad-gītā guidance. I will not manufacture anything. That is not my business, concoction thing, hodgepodge, without any knowledge, without any experience. We are not that type of... [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: We have to set everything. When I phone, we should be ready.

Prabhupāda: You make a file. Whatever she says, make a file and keep that.

Lalita Bose: We have to, yes. [Bengali] ...government scheme. [Bengali] [aside:] We have to note down what he is saying. That's why I told... That will be written in short letter, short, Guru Mahārāja to Prime Minister. And it is to be...

Prabhupāda: Anyone can? You can read Hindi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: [reads Hindi]

Prabhupāda: You can go on, go on reading.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: [reads Hindi]

Prabhupāda: Go on. Go on reading.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: [continues reading Hindi]

Prabhupāda: Lucī, kachorī, rābṛi sandeśa, rasagullā, panir... [Bengali] ...daily, 1,000 pound, Vrindaban. [Bengali] False propaganda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now, this August 24th and 31st, Dharmayan[?] is bringing up two big articles on us on Janmāṣṭamī, to do a series. August 24th issue and August 31st, two very nice articles on us are appearing.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...gorakṣya. Kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma-svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.44]. Bhagavad-gītā. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] "You go away." My mother told that "You leave me. Kṛṣṇa will look after me." Seventy-six. [Bengali] My mother is very spiritual. "Guru Mahārāja, [Bengali]. You must go and tell Indira." [Bengali] But you have to... I have written to Brahmananda Reddy and copied it, because I am going to Prime Minister. I will have to show them that... [Bengali] ...relationship. You go personally. And I will also carry your letter. So he was also...

Prabhupāda: [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...American guru. Yesterday somebody came to me when I am just... [Bengali] ...Central Intelligence... [Bengali] ...whose house that Mr. Badiraja house, and Guru Mahārāj-jī is Indian or American. Twice they phoned from the Prime Minister's office. We are telling them in Bengali. From there, Calcutta, West Bengal. And I know, my grandfather knows him, and I told this. [Bengali] ...this American guru. And again and again they are phoning. I said, "No, no." [Bengali] What she will feel? She has got that power.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] ...she is spiritually inclined, therefore... [Bengali] "I know Mrs. Gandhi is spiritually inclined." [Bengali] By 1928 Jawaharlal Nehru, Congress President... [Bengali] "Dear Panditjī, I want to go to Congress as a delegate. Please give me delegate ticket." [Bengali] "You don't require any ticket. You come here. You'll get it." Delegate's seats are already...

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] You born... When Guru Mahārāja born? [Bengali]

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 1896.

Lalita Bose: Somebody has reported that he is American and this and that.

Prabhupāda: No. [Bengali] ...Calcutta janma. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: You know I told you that Mr. Mani is Sai Baba's bhakta. So he is harassing, you know, sending a letter and all. It's not especial any, that "Send to the member of ISKCON. They must leave." No. There is no report like that, but they are sending to say that he should learn and come to the Mr. Mani's bhakta of Sai Baba. [Bengali] South Indian. [Bengali] There is nothing special. So if you are feeling better, then tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. But can I mention that you must fit to see her?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [Bengali] You know that? [Bengali] Between twelve to end of the day. [Bengali] Indira Gandhi... [Bengali] ...position plus spiritual knowledge, it will play wonderful in the world. [Bengali] Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Third-class, fourth-class rogue, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Rājarṣayo. He must be royalty, at the same time great sage, saintly person. Then he will understand. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: You must have that quality to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [Bengali] Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. Find out this verse.

Ikṣvāku-rājarṣi, Rāmacandra-vaṁśa... [Bengali] ...originator of the dynasty of the Sūrya-vaṁśa. Kṣatriya... [Bengali] ...Sūrya-vaṁśa and Candra-vaṁśa.

Harikeśa:

"The Blessed Lord said = I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2].

Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ.

Harikeśa: Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.

Prabhupāda: Again, rājarṣayo viduḥ, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ. Rājarṣaya. [Bengali] India culture... [Bengali] "It can be revived. Now I can help you." This is my... [Bengali] Sa kāleneha?

Harikeśa: Kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.

Prabhupāda: Yogo naṣṭaḥ paran... Rājarṣaya... [Bengali] ...third-class, fourth-class rogue... [Bengali] ...restriction. It was the primary qualification that one must be a graduate; then he can understand what is law. Similarly, if one is actually brāhmaṇa by qualification, then he can understand what is Vedas. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa was interested to speak to the rājarṣis. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān. He told to the... First of all He spoke to Vivasvān, the king of the sun planet. That picture is there?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. First of all He spoke that... If you take history of Bhagavad-gītā, then it comes to forty millions of years ago, at least, He spoke Bhagavad-gītā. How do you calculate? The calculation is there. Any intelligent man can calculate, because Brahmā's duration of life is mentioned there. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brāhmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. So one yuga means forty-three lakhs of years, and multiply by it one thousand. That is Brahmā's duration of one day. Now, in one day there are seven Manus. So Vivasvān Manu's age can be calculated---at least forty millions of years ago. So the Bhagavad-gītā is not a new thing. It was spoken five thousand years ago to Arjuna. That was not the first speaking. He says, "I first spoke to the Vivasvān, the sun-god." Yes, show him. [Bengali] ...I am manufacturing something. Everything is there. "If you simply follow, a great, wonderful thing will be done." She is now in a position. Simply she has to take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it practically. And that is not very difficult. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says, annād bhavanti... Parjanyād bhavanti bhūtāni [Bg. 3.14]. Make this program, immediately.

Lalita Bose: The reaction will start.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalita Bose: And it is a proof. I will tell what Guru Mahārāja has done.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am simply... This is our process. We don't manufacture nonsense things. They are afraid of me because they see that in spite of their so many hypnotism and magic and, what is called, miracles, they are..., where they are and where I am. That is their fear.

Lalita Bose: Fear.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They understood that "This man does not show any magic, and he is playing wonderful thing." That, every gentleman, every man, can understand. When I was at Kumbha-melā all these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they were receiving me like anything because they understand that they could not do anything. How they can do? Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe nāma pracāra. One must receive strength from the superior; then it is possible. It is not a bogus thing, that anyone can do it. Kṛṣṇa-śakti... It is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. [aside:] Have you got Caitanya-caritāmṛta?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa śakti vinā nahe pravartane.

Prabhupāda: Nāma pracāra.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Lord Kṛṣṇa's energies..."

Prabhupāda: And kṛṣṇa bhajanate nāhi jāti-kulādi vicāra. These are all Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... What is that?

Harikeśa: Is that Madhya-līlā?

Prabhupāda: In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Here. [Bengali] Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa and follow Him. Then you are successful.

Lalita Bose: And I will tell her.

Prabhupāda: Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. He says, "Kaunteya, take it for granted that My devotee will never be vanquished." Then you have to disbelieve all these words or you have to believe these words. There are two things. If you believe, then you are successful. If you don't believe... [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: ...to cooperate with you to establish a good life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually my intention. Otherwise I have cancelled a very big, big...

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...immediately. She is eager to meet you.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not dependent on him. I can cancel, accept anything. [laughter]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...when he is meeting, only one, small, as a spiritual guide. And... [Bengali]...the photographer, with permission... [Bengali]

Jayapatāka: The photographer can stay outside in the waiting room, and if they give permission, then we can enter.

Prabhupāda: They can go, but when I meet, I'll take two, two secretaries.

Lalita Bose: I have to tell two secretaries. "He is accompanied, two secretaries."

Prabhupāda: Two secretaries, that's all.

Lalita Bose: And allow them with camera.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Lalita Bose: Allow the camera.

Brahmānanda: The camera can be afterwards.

Lalita Bose: Oh, after.

Brahmānanda: Because Prabhupāda will be preaching, and he doesn't like photos taken while he is preaching. Also, it may be possible to record the...

Prabhupāda: No, you can take. What is there? You can take photograph. You? Or you?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these two persons will be...

Jayapatāka: Bhārgava is also there, if they allow him after it's over to come...

Prabhupāda: After that, yes.

Brahmānanda: What about tape record? We could tape record the session also.

Lalita Bose: They don't want that.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Lalita Bose: They said no.

Prabhupāda: No, she has got political situation, so that's all right. We should not record. We shall talk, and photo can be taken. That's all. [Bengali] Where is my, that letter, I wrote one?

Brahmānanda: To Indira Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I wrote one letter. When this trouble was there, so it came to my mind that "Why there is trouble? All the leaders can follow Bhagavad-gītā, and then things will be all right." So I sent that letter, Indira Gandhi letter. Here. What did I write?

Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Gandhi." This is dated July 1st, 1975, from Evanston, Illinois.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom I wrote it?

Brahmānanda: From Chicago.

Prabhupāda: Chicago.

Brahmānanda: "May it please Your Excellency, enclosed please find one copy of my letter addressed to Śrī Jaya Prakash Narayanji. I wish that both of you may sit together and agree to join together to work on the basis of the instructions given in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is practical and good for India as well as for the whole world situation. The whole world is expecting to receive something from Indian culture. Why not push this movement and solve the complete problems of India? I hope you will take this suggestion seriously and do the needful without delay. Thanking you in anticipation. I beg to remain..."

Prabhupāda: So letter is already there. [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...after Mojiva's[?] incident. She is very... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: So now what shall I write?

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...wonderful point. [Bengali] You know what... "He was busy for the world organiza..., but he has left everything."

Prabhupāda: So shall I refer to your name? [Bengali] So take the...

Lalita Bose: So this is the Work Minister. Otherwise only meeting, many people will come, then the... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: So "Your Excellency, Śrīmatī Indira Devi..." Indira Gandhi or Indira Devi?

Lalita Bose: "Indira Devi Gandhi." [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: "Indira Devi Gandhi, when I was in Canada, in..." Montreal?

Brahmānanda: Toronto.

Prabhupāda: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation..."

Brahmānanda: Sent me...?

Prabhupāda: "One intimation that you wanted to see me."

Lalita Bose: No, I approached her. [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: "She approached you for meeting with me..., with you for a meeting"?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "For me."

Prabhupāda: "For me with you. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called saṅkīrtana movement. Sometimes they call Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the Indian people under your leadership, it will be very, very effective."

Lalita Bose: "And for the development of this country I can bring foreign exchange for..."

Prabhupāda: No, why this?

Lalita Bose: [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: "So we have already about six branches in India..."

Jayapatāka: Eight.

Prabhupāda: "Eight. And all the development is being done by foreign exchange. So it can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection."

Lalita Bose: "I need your advices for this development." [Bengali] "With the help of government in villages."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I... I just had one point. In my speaking to Ganesha's also, even when we tell them we are bringing huge amounts of foreign exchange from abroad, they at once say, "But how do you get this money abroad?"

Prabhupāda: We sell our books.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So I was thinking maybe we could add a line or two on your books, that the foreign exchange is obtained.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in the foreign countries, Europe and America."

Lalita Bose: Is a biggest seller, I think... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: There is no record in the whole world. That religious books are selling twenty lakhs now, it is no record.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Back to Godhead alone has done that.

Prabhupāda: So...

Lalita Bose: You make...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. "And by the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange here." So I came here that she wants to see me, then why you are getting from me write...

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] Next time after the meeting... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Read it. Read it, what I have said.

Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting for you and myself. And I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instructions in the Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that in India everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world."

Prabhupāda: Everyone in India.

Brahmānanda: "In India everyone should become a guru."

Prabhupāda: No, no. "Everyone should become a guru."

Brahmānanda: "His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam..."

Prabhupāda: "Four hundred pages each."

Brahmānanda: "I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries, Europe and America. By sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...development India. [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: So you can give this letter to Lalita.

Lalita Bose: Can I collect? I think I will go to Prema's office and give it to Sesha and make an appointment.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to give the letter?

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?

Lalita Bose: I want that he should give. [Bengali] This is all that he should do. [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Read again, if there is to be corrected. Just hear, everyone.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali]

Brahmānanda: "Your Excellency Śrīmatī Indira Devi Gandhi. When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with myself."

Prabhupāda: "With me. "

Lalita Bose: "With me."

Prabhupāda: "A meeting with me and you."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Should we say "Miss Lalita Bose" or just "Miss Lalita"?

Lalita Bose: No, Lalita will do. That's all. She knows me.

Brahmānanda: "When I was in Toronto, Canada, Śrīmatī Lalita Devi, who is just like my daughter, sent me one intimation that she approached you for a meeting with me and you, and I have come here, postponing all my engagements. I am preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world on the basis of Kṛṣṇa's instruction in Bhagavad-gītā. Actually this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is called the saṅkīrtana movement and sometimes called the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, which was inaugurated by Lord Caitanya in Bengal and throughout all India. His mission is that everyone should become a guru and preach all over the world the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So we are doing this very faithfully, and it is becoming effective. I think in India also, if some vigorous activity is done for awakening the Kṛṣṇa consciousness of the people under your leadership, it will be very effective. So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government. So I shall be very much pleased to see you in this connection. I have written about fifty books of four hundred pages each, such as Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, and these books are very popular in foreign countries such as Europe and America. By the sales proceeds I am bringing foreign exchange." "Yours sincerely"?

Prabhupāda: "Yours sincerely" all right, or "Your well-wisher"?

Lalita Bose: "Well-wisher."

Prabhupāda: "Your well-wisher." [Bengali] Word is already there. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete karīyā aikya. [Bengali] So immediately type it and give it to her.

Jayapatāka: Where it says that "I am bringing foreign exchange" in the end, "by selling my books I am bringing foreign exchange," it's for India's development?

Prabhupāda: For developing my scheme here.

Jayapatāka: And Gopāla Kṛṣṇa mentioned the point that... We're bringing the foreign exchange. Whether there should be any word that also signifies that we have local support also?

Prabhupāda: Local support, that is understood. [Bengali] So our "books popular in foreign countries as well as in India." We are getting money also by these books.

Brahmānanda: We have quotations from professors in America and also India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalita Bose: And which we will take, this one and the Professor Kajal.[?] [Bengali] You will give one Gītā in your writing to... You will present Gītā. And you lead your life according to this teachings. But she is great... [Bengali] She is full of bhakti. But she needs good guidance. Anandamayi Ma is doing, but she can't come to her. So guidance, practical guidance also.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] So I shall personally teach Bhagavad-gītā, her and her most confidential associates or who is governing. That I can do. [Bengali] Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ [Bg. 4.2]. I wanted a rājarṣi to take up this movement seriously, but I could not get till now. If she becomes, it will be benefit for me, for the world, for her, everyone. Because I have no power, I have no money, but if one rājarṣi who has got strength, money, intelligence, if she takes, then it will be very quickly successful. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His movement became very successful when Mahārāja Pratāparudra of Orissa took it. Gautama Buddha's movement was successful when Aśoka, Mahārāja Aśoka, took it. It requires. And Kṛṣṇa says, rājarṣayo viduḥ.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...interview... Central Intelligence. [Bengali] She is very cunning.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] She is spiritually inclined. She goes to so many spiritual men, but they cannot give her guidance. That means she has some inclination. That I can understand. Just like these four American boys, they are after spiritual enlightenment, and all the svāmīs and yogīs who went there simply exploited them. Because they have no knowledge, neither they are prepared to take knowledge from the authority, Kṛṣṇa. That is their defect. That is their defect.

Lalita Bose: They have become Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore they could not give any...

Lalita Bose: Everybody is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Lalita Bose: If you go anywhere, he is Bhagavān.

Prabhupāda: He is Bhagavān.

Lalita Bose: Now full Kali. [Bengali] Kali-yuga [Bengali] Everybody is busy with their duties.

Prabhupāda: Ah, they are engaged.

Lalita Bose: No time to talk.

Prabhupāda: I don't allow them to sit down.

Lalita Bose: At other āśramas you go and see... I go every āśramas. So I reported that now you catch all the sādhus. I'm giving a secret letter that "All the black-marketeers with them, sitting, chatting and patting, and you catch them. Then all the smugglers you will get." Sai Baba... [Bengali] He will throw you out. And he is exploiting that girl, and I have got a picture, very bad picture, with me. [Bengali] "Bhagavān Satya Sai Baba." So she is very..., she hates him. And [Bengali] I have seen Satya Sai Baba. I know he is, what type of man he is. [Bengali] Government letter, certified.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the foreign countries.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...what personality you are.

Prabhupāda: [Bengali] Thousands of Americans will do that. Thousands.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] Māyāpur, Vṛndāvana. [Bengali] You just sit and write.

Prabhupāda: If you take my guidance I'll stay. Our guidance means on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. I don't manufacture. That is my...

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...prime minister already... [Bengali] This is my experience about Prabhupāda's of the ISKCON. I am a layman... [Bengali] How you are writing on... [Bengali] ...what you are. I am the Life Member. [Bengali] The member of the Advisory Council... "Who are you?" "I am a member of that Council." "I see. I see." [Bengali] West Bengal Security Force is a very good report about Hare Kṛṣṇa. [Bengali] Very good report. "Please ask Prime Minister, allow them to stay."

Prabhupāda: Governor...

Lalita Bose: U.P.

Prabhupāda: U.P. [Bengali] They must understand the philosophy. So is that all right? So make it.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali]

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can go down.

Prabhupāda: Give her prasāda.

Jayapatāka: In case they want to see what type of..., how we like to develop in the village scheme, should I keep the Māyāpur program ready?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lalita Bose: And immediately the work can...

Prabhupāda: These pictures and everything.

Jayapatāka: I wrote out the whole thing. As soon I can give it to you...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You make... Keep that... That I'll present personally, not now. Later.

Lalita Bose: When he is meeting, he will unveil. "Already we have started the schemes, and we can expand with the help of government." [break] [Bengali]

Lalita Bose: [to Brahmānanda:] Listen, please, can you. One point.

Prabhupāda: Where is that letter?

Brahmānanda: To Indira Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: So mention that I require...

Lalita Bose: Hundred...

Prabhupāda: How many...

Brahmānanda: When you talk about "I... So we have already eight branches in India. All development is being done by foreign exchange. It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."

Prabhupāda: "And foreign assistance, about one hundred men." That's all.

Lalita Bose: [Bengali] ...men.

Brahmānanda: "Foreign assistance, numbering about one hundred."

Lalita Bose: Missionary... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Then what is there?

Brahmānanda: "So we have already eight branches in India, and all development is being done by foreign exchange and foreign assistance numbering about one hundred."

Prabhupāda: "Mostly. Mostly by foreign exchange and foreign assistance. Mostly." It is not that there is no Indian. Mostly.

Lalita Bose: "I want." "I want from you." [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: Yes. So, "If you..."

Brahmānanda: "It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government."

Prabhupāda: "By giving these foreigners missionary..." What is called? "Missionary visa"? Is that all right?

Lalita Bose: "Missionary visa..." [Bengali] Citizenship... [Bengali]

Prabhupāda: What you have said?

Brahmānanda: "It can be continued if I get encouragement by the government..."

Prabhupāda: "By allowing these foreign assistant as missionary men." That's all.

Brahmānanda: "As missionaries."

Prabhupāda: "As missionary men." Or "missionaries."

Lalita Bose: "Missionaries..." [Bengali]. So they will see in what way they can best...

Prabhupāda: That's all. Jaya. [end]