Morning Walk , Honolulu , 1975-06-11

[in car]

Prabhupāda: [talking with Manasvī in Bengali about different types of ḍāl] [break]

Siddha-svarūpa: ...experiments that these... I know of the experiments that these men are doing. They're connected... They have gone to the Buddhists. They've gone to Buddhist monks and various people that are into voidism, and they've made these tests, and it comes out that there's no activity. So they're seeing this as being the goal. They're trying to see if the same perfection, result of perfection, is achieved by the chanting. They already have a preconceived notion of what perfection is, and if they're testing to see if...

Prabhupāda: To that standard.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, if we're up to that standard of perfection of the Buddhist monks or the Zen monks or transcendental meditators or whatever. So I think it's a very bad thing to take part in that thing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: Because they'll simply try to... Anyway, it's... [break] Sometimes because these people have big titles like "psychologist" or "professor," and they have many machines and authoritative-looking instruments, we become deceived into thinking that they are authorities of some sort, and we let them dictate to us. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...do not study that why these devotees have given up intoxication, which the government failed to stop?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is practical.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, it's an easy enough thing to study.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Siddha-svarūpa: It's an easy thing to study. Simple.

Prabhupāda: Why these devotee, they have given up intoxication? Apart from other items, the government, especially in USA, they are spending millions of dollars to stop this intoxication, LSD. So why they have failed? And why Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement has become successful? What is the psychology?

Siddha-svarūpa: It seems that these people don't know how to be simple.

Prabhupāda: Well, they have no spiritual information. That is the... Therefore the first education is to understand what is spirit. Then spiritual knowledge is... They do not know what is spirit.

[break] ...imāni bhūtāni bhavanti. That is spirit, the original source of everything. This body, original source is the spirit. As soon as the spirit is not there, the body will not grow. They are seeing actually. Therefore the original source is the spirit. Why the dead child does not grow? Or dead young man does not grow? They have not studied, still, what is the cause? If it is chemical, then inject some chemical, if you know, and make it grow. Is there any... Why they cannot do it? Why do they say it is chemical? Chemical you have got in your possession. So inject the dead child and it will grow. Then it is correct. And where is that? Simply bogus propaganda. And we have to accept it. Either they must say that "Yes, it is chemical, but we did not find that chemical."

Siddha-svarūpa: So they have to admit their failure.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Siddha-svarūpa: So that means they're not sure it's a chemical.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Siddha-svarūpa: If they say they haven't found it, they have to admit that they're not sure.

Prabhupāda: Why do they not inject chemical in the dead body? Harikeśa? What is their answer, these rascals' answers? If they know this out of chemical, then inject that chemical in the dead body and let him come back again in life. What do they say?

Harikeśa: They're a little puzzled about that one.

Prabhupāda: Puzzled means they are rascals. Why a scientist should be puzzled? Then you are rascal, admit it. If I know my business correct, why shall I be puzzled? That means rascal. You are rascal, and you are theorizing only. What is the value of your statement?

Siddha-svarūpa: Actually, the chemicals are already there in a body which has just..., someone has just left the body, the soul has just left, all the chemicals are there. There's nothing missing.

Harikeśa: Well, they will say there's a slight difference, and that slight difference is enough.

Prabhupāda: But you do not know what is that slight difference.

Siddha-svarūpa: It is a slight difference. The soul is missing. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: If the chemical is missing, you can replace the chemical.

Siddha-svarūpa: Right. Do they say it's a slight difference in chemical composition?

Harikeśa: Yes, there's just a slight difference with some of the chemicals...

Prabhupāda: What is that difference? That also you cannot explain.

Siddha-svarūpa: What is the difference? Do they know? Or do they say they know?

Harikeśa: Well they haven't found it yet.

Prabhupāda: Well, that's it, still they are talking of chemical... They did not find what is the original cause; still, they are suggesting this is the cause.

Harikeśa: Because they are finding so many cures to diseases, they are trying now...

Prabhupāda: What the disease? What they have...? Have they found any cure for the cancer?

Siddha-svarūpa: Cancer?

Harikeśa: For certain diseases they are...

Prabhupāda: Certain diseases. Then we are calling of disease.

Ambarīṣa: There's always new diseases, though.

Siddha-svarūpa: That's the whole thing. Like cancer is a new disease.

Ambarīṣa: For every old disease they find a cure for, there are..., a new disease.

Prabhupāda: No cure. They simply find out... They say, "It is better medicine," but it is not cured. What disease they have cured? What... Name particular disease, "This disease is cured."

Harikeśa: Well, they have some smallpox vaccine, and no one gets smallpox any more.

Prabhupāda: Yes, does it mean smallpox is stopped all over the world?

Harikeśa: It's very much cut down. There's hardly any smallpox...

Prabhupāda: Very much cut down, but it's very much increasing in another side.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, no, they have smallpox.

Harikeśa: In America there's no smallpox. So that means here...

Prabhupāda: That is all right. It is due to poverty, uncleanliness. So that is known to everyone. The smallpox takes place amongst the poorer class, unclean class. In India also, that is there. No gentleman's house there is smallpox. Only these lower class, unclean.

Siddha-svarūpa: Where there's no facility for sanitation...

Prabhupāda: If you remain unclean, all diseases will come. Where is the cure?

Harikeśa: They also have this thing where they're freezing bodies just before they die.

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense.

Harikeśa: Later on, they will unthaw them...

Prabhupāda: Later on.

Harikeśa: ...when they find the cure, and cure it.

Siddha-svarūpa: They promised that man? [laughs] So they are doing good for that person?

Prabhupāda: Everything, "Later on. Wait. Take this post-dated check." "And where is money, sir?" "Wait. You have got the check. That's all right."

Siddha-svarūpa: They are making promises.

Manasvī: The scientists who are saying that they're going to do this, they'll be also in the same position after some years.

Siddha-svarūpa: Right, they're promising this person they freezed that "We will thaw you out later," but they cannot even promise themself that they won't die that night in a car accident or die from some disease themselves. So how can they promise that "In a while we will thaw you out"? They're simply cheating the people.

Prabhupāda: Why it is congested today?

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, we came a little late. It's rush hour. All the people that live on that side of the island work on that side of the island. So they have to drive over every morning. And we happened to get the work-hour traffic because we left a little late.

Harikeśa: They are turning Hawaii into New York City.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yeah, they're making it very difficult. They're going to develop this entire side of the island more and more, and so that they're taking agriculture land, and they'll be building subdivisions, and people from the mainland will be moving, living in condominiums on this island.

Prabhupāda: That means for one convenience, they create another inconvenience.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the business. In this way they will take three hours to go to the other side?

Siddha-svarūpa: Uh, not three hours, but it'll... [break]

[in car]

Prabhupāda: [talking about Colonel Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken] ...photo must be there.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, here's his..., his photograph is also on this round bucket. He puts his photograph on the bucket.

Prabhupāda: He has become a very big man.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: By killing chickens.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. He actually is beginning to look like a chicken, his face. He's actually starting to look like a chicken.

Ambarīṣa: He claims he is a very religious man, too.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the sample of religious man. And what is irreligious? [chuckles] If the religious men kill so many chickens daily, then what is the irreligious man do?

Siddha-svarūpa: They're vegetarians. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: He kills the chicken and fry it in oil. And that is sold.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Big money. They...

Ambarīṣa: He's also very involved in politics.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? He's a politician also?

Ambarīṣa: Yeah. At the Democratic convention he supplies all the politicians with unlimited fried chicken.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? [laughter] [break]

Siddha-svarūpa: ...he also sells, I think. But this other chain of restaurants, McDonald's, they are very proud. They announce how many hamburgers they have sold. They have branches everywhere in the world.

Prabhupāda: Hamburger means?

Siddha-svarūpa: Uh, that's beef. They kill the cows in a unbelievable..., at an unbelievable rate, the number of cows they're killing for their meat. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...up? No?

Siddha-svarūpa: I'm not sure.

Manasvī: I think up to now they have sold 200,000,000 hamburgers, or something like that.

Prabhupāda: You also keep account? [laughs]

Manasvī: No, they put that ad in every day.

Siddha-svarūpa: They put in a newspaper.

Ambarīṣa: You can't avoid seeing it.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, they are always telling you.

Manasvī: In front of their shop it's always there.

Siddha-svarūpa: "We have killed this many." They have also tried to connect themselves with patriotism and religion. They have, at all of their restaurants, they have the American flag flying along with the McDonald's flag. They have their own flag, McDonald's. So they fly alongside the American flag. [break]

Ambarīṣa: I heard once that human beings in the modes of goodness were coming from the cow family or from the cows mostly? If there are so many cows being killed, why aren't there more people in the modes of goodness?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Now, after the... There are three sources = cow, monkey and lion. This is the last animal life.

Siddha-svarūpa: You gonna park here?

Prabhupāda: Why not go a little...

Siddha-svarūpa: There's a beach park right up there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, beach park. Oh, you have to stop.

Siddha-svarūpa: The... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...cow which is killed, that does not get immediately human life, because he is untimely killed.

Ambarīṣa: Oh. So he takes birth as a cow again?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...finish his birth as cow, and who is killing, he becomes... He is stopping his progress, therefore he is punishable. Just like you have leased one apartment to live for so many years, and if somebody, by force, kicks out, then he is punishable.

[break] [on walk]

Devotee: ...Kamehameha Day, today?

Bali-mardana: Today is a holiday. [break] Saturday. [break]

Prabhupāda: Here, for chanting? A good hall? [break]

Siddha-svarūpa: This is the buildings where all the... [break] They don't have any crocodiles here.

Paramahaṁsa: Is that a shark? That's a shark. That big fish... See that big fish, Prabhupāda? That big one on the wall? He is hanging?

Prabhupāda: Oh, he is dead?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, dead fish. That's a shark.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [break] ...these are kept for sale?

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, no. It's a very strange thing. They just show everybody. They capture 'em and show everybody what they look like. The public pays 25 cents to go see what it looks like. [break]

Prabhupāda: For aircraft killing?

Siddha-svarūpa: Maybe. I don't think it's that bad in... [break]

Bali-mardana: This is a war memorial.

Prabhupāda: Oh. American or enemy's captured?

Bali-mardana: It looks like American artillery.

Devotee: A gun.

Siddha-svarūpa: When I was about ten years old... When I was a young boy, we would play with my friends. We would stand on this and try to knock each other off, push each other off the cannon.

Prabhupāda: It can be... No.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, it doesn't swing around.

Devotee: It's jammed now.

Prabhupāda: It is from the last world war? [break] ...far it goes?

Bali-mardana: Few mi... About ten miles.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [break] ...such cannons are meant for killing aircraft. [break] ...London Blitz, Blitz, they were attacking from aircraft and from ground also, simultaneously. [break] ...beginning, they were conquering over Belgium and neighboring... Evening... Morning, one country, and evening, one country.

Bali-mardana: Blitzkrieg.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...is the name of somebody?

Siddha-svarūpa: There was a queen named Queen Kapiolani.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [break] ...Hawaiian queen?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. [break] No.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: The Filipinos mostly eat dogs.

Prabhupāda: He said, Govinda dāsī.

Siddha-svarūpa: Who?

Prabhupāda: Govinda dāsī.

Siddha-svarūpa: I don't think she knows the difference between Hawaiians and Filipinos.

Prabhupāda: Oh, there are Filipines here?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, there are many.

Bali-mardana: They imported them to work in the plantations.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [break]

Śrutakīrti: That was the sound of peacocks.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Śrutakīrti: Just over here somewhere.

Devotee: That's a zoo over there.

Bali-mardana: There is a zoo. They have many peacocks who roam around. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...on the pathway there was sometimes tree. They do not cut it. [break] ...very rare there. It is dried firmly? It is dried up?

Devotee: Not all of them. Little bit dried and like that. So sometimes one of those..., Kanva and other devotees, have been suggesting to put fruit trees instead of this kind of trees. Can we cut them?

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee: No, we should not. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...it is absolutely necessary. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...develop this land. [break] ...develop.

Siddha-svarūpa: Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Hawaii, yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: The Hawaiians could never develop. They didn't want development.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Now they are still here, or they have left?

Siddha-svarūpa: They are here, but they've mixed up with other races. There's many mixture in races. And most of the local people who live here, they're a mixture of Hawaiian, Japanese... [break]

Prabhupāda: Then everything will go on nice.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, the people will have someone to look up to, at least. They'll know which way to go. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...rogues.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, and so then they become..., the people become very frustrated because the leaders they're trying to look up to, they find out they're crooks, and it ruins their... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...the animals. Take, for example, the cows. If the master is Kṛṣṇa conscious, they are not killed. And if the master is a rogue, they are killed. They have no knowledge how to protect themself. They take shelter of a master. So if the master is good, then their life is safe. And if the master is rogue, then they are killed. So it requires the leader. Formerly, the kings were saintly, rājarṣi. Therefore there was peace. You cannot expect the mass of people very intelligent. That is not possible. They are generally in darkness. They believe that "Somebody, this man, will give us protection." But the man is treacherous. He sits round[?] on the post of giving protection, but he kills. This is going on. Therefore if the leaders become nice, Kṛṣṇa conscious, then everything will be all right. [break] These rogues, by force, by device, they all occupy the government post. Formerly, Vedic, the king was trained up very nicely by the brāhmaṇas, guided by the brāhmaṇas, and they would do nicely. [break] ...now thousands of kings. The president, the secretary, the minister, this, senator, everyone is king. Because everyone is in the business of exploitation. That's all. Formerly there was one king. Now, in the name of democracy, there are thousands of kings. And the poor citizens, they have to satisfy all of them.

Siddha-svarūpa: Right. They have to...

Prabhupāda: This is the position. [break] [end]