Morning Walk , London , 1975-03-11

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any place where there is no sunshine, that is condemned.

Brahmānanda: In your Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you write that the sun purifies a dirty place and also the mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But we don't rely on the sun for purifying our mind.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: As devotees, we don't rely on the sun...

Prabhupāda: We have the Kṛṣṇa sun.

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is this, sun? No.

Śrutakīrti: Spinnery.

Prabhupāda: Spinnery. [break] There is no sunshine. It is wet always, just see. Trees also, they have moss.

Brahmānanda: In India the sun is very intense.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Brahmānanda: Does that have something to do that Kṛṣṇa appeared there?

Prabhupāda: Puṇya-bhūmi, pious land. Still, so fallen, whenever there is a question of spiritual meeting, thousands, lakhs, will come. You have seen Kumbha-melā?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: You have seen?

Śrutakīrti: No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I've seen pictures. Pictures.

Prabhupāda: Very poor men, still, they gather, sixty lakhs, without any advertisement.

Brahmānanda: Here you have to advertise to get six hundred.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Or six.

Prabhupāda: And it was so nice to live there, spiritual atmosphere, on the bank of the Ganges and Yamunā. Immediately you go, you become spiritualized. Vṛndāvana is also like that. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite janma haila..., manuṣya-janma haila. To get the human form of life born in India, that is a special prerogative. Bhārata-bhumite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. He is fifty percent prepared by birth.

Brahmānanda: Just by birth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And then, by culture, another fifty percent. But they have given up this culture. But the birthright, fifty percent is already also there. Prayāga, severest cold, eh, I took bath in the Ganges. It is simply cutting. But still, they are taking bath and smearing over the body the ashes and sit down, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. No care, "Wherefrom food will come? Where...?" No. That's in India still. [break] ...it is also like this, cloudy?

Bhagavān: Just a few months out of the year, January, February.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, how we have gone there? [laughter] Africa was part of India.

Brahmānanda: The land was together?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: The land of Africa was together?

Prabhupāda: No, there...

Indian man: Geological information it was. It was together. And Australia was fitting in the Bay of Bengal. This is the theory. I learned from my lecturer, Dr. Willinghurst. He told me in my class.

Prabhupāda: Because from Bhāgavata we understand that the black man who was born out of the body of King Vena, he was thief. So he was sent to the African jungle. Yes. And they're still thief. [laughter] They cannot give up their... Although they have got independence, they cannot give up this habit. [dog barking] "Best friend."

Brahmānanda: Mahārāja Pṛthu also came from the body of King Vena.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: So he stayed in India, and the other, he went to Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, he was the emperor of the whole world. But the jungle part... Somebody... The whole world was known as Bhārata-varṣa, this planet. Nine varṣas: Bhārata-varṣa, Ketumāla-varṣa, Ilāvṛta-varṣa... The whole universal situation is mentioned, where different lands are there. [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...ages, Śrīla Prabhupāda, did the people, in order to get valuable minerals and gold and things like that, did they mine underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea---pearls; valuable stones from the hills.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?

Prabhupāda: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic; no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.

Brahmānanda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?

Prabhupāda: No, pure.

Brahmānanda: It is pure.

Prabhupāda: Ivory, yes. There is a current proverb, "Dead elephant, one lakh rupees." Mara hati lakṣa na:[?] "Elephant, alive or dead, one lakh of rupees," on account of ivory. When the elephant is dead, it is put into a hole and covered. And after sometimes you find all the ivory. The bones and the teeth are very, very valuable. Formerly big, big kings, they used to manufacture their furniture of ivory and gold and silk pad. This is luxury. And the rooms bedecked with jewel. No electricity, no lamp. This is description of Kṛṣṇa's sixteen thousand palace. Who has got now? Sixteen thousand wives and sixteen thousand palace of marble and furniture ivory and gold. Where is there now? Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the richest. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya [Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47].

French devotee: Were all the races originated in India?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

French devotee: The races were originated in India, all the races, the different races that there are now?

Prabhupāda: India, what do you mean by? Not the modern India. India was the whole world.

French devotee: So all the different kinds of human beings actually were originated there?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] ...men, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. First, second, third. Then fourth is the śūdra. And the fifth, caṇḍālas---no Vedic culture. They are caṇḍālas. So the Europeans, they were kṣatriyas originally. On account of Paraśurāma's massacre process, they fled from India to European side. And Greece and Rome, they were given---I think Turkey also---given to two sons of Mahārāja Yayāti. They refused the order of the father. The father was very licentious. So he begged from two sons that "You give me your youth." They refused. So therefore they were banished in this part of the world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Into England.

Prabhupāda: Not England. Greece, Rome, Turkey. Next to India, they were civilized. So European race mostly come from that part. Caucasian. Kaśyapa Muni. Central India, er, central... What is called?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Madhya Pradesh?

Prabhupāda: Asia, Asia.

Brahmānanda: Why it took Paraśurāma twenty-one times to defeat?

Prabhupāda: They were not properly doing their duties. So Paraśurāma said, "I will kill all of them." Formerly, kṣatriyas were guided by the brāhmaṇas, even Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all the rules and regulations. But the brāhmaṇas were the legislative assembly, and kṣatriyas were the executive, and the vaiśyas, productive, and śūdras, worker. At the present moment there is no director, neither executive. Some of them are only productive, and some of them are worker, most of them. Therefore it is said, kalau śūdraḥ-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga, mostly all the people are śūdras, because they are worker. [break] Everyone can be purified, even the caṇḍālas. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ [SB 2.4.18]. Yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ. Yavanas means these European groups, and khasādayaḥ, Mongolian group = China, Japan. So Japanese were there in Vedic age also. Kālayavana. Kālayavana fought with Kṛṣṇa.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Hare Kṛṣṇa. [devotees laughing]

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: He was recording like this.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, just the last few minutes. [laughter] I was listening, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

French devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, will the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will take over the world eventually?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

French devotee: Is going to take over the world eventually some time during the Kali-yuga, in this Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible, because only the fortunate persons will take.

French devotee: I mean, but will the power of the kṣatriyas will be in the hands of the Kṛṣṇa conscious persons sometime during this Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Provided you become very expert to preach. Unless you preach, how they will take? [break]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Towards the end of the Kali-yuga isn't there a description in the Bhāgavatam that one will not be able to see the sun or the moon?

Prabhupāda: During the end of Kali-yuga?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Because of the impiety. So there will be no vegetation. Is that description in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: I don't think. [break] ...it is stated?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, I had heard---of course, I'm not certain of the source---that because of impiety the sun and the moon, people would not be able to see. So there would be no vegetation. And without vegetation, even animals cannot live. So eventually they would take to eating their own children. Is this what takes place?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there will be no foodstuff at the end of... That is stated. No milk, no food grains, no fruits, no whatever. Especially food grains.

Devotee (2): There will be some devotees left at the end of Kali-yuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes, only the devotees will be left. All others... [break] [loud noise of car screeching] ...are not very neat and clean. [chuckles] Yes. That means condition is not very good. And it is sound.

Brahmānanda: Not in proper repair.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We had an engagement last night at a technical school after your lecture, and inside the entrance of the technical school in a big glass case they had a big engine from a car, when you walk into the technical school. Mostly Indians, young boys.

Prabhupāda: Oh, foreigners.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. [break] So they were very disrespectful actually. But when we started kīrtana, the whole atmosphere changed. Do you think that the young Indian boys, in the future, they will become anywhere near as pious as their parents?

Prabhupāda: Why do you take India? We are talking of the whole world. There is no question of "India," "Europe," "America." [break]

Brahmānanda: ...Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about the kirātas and so on. That means we can go to any community in the world...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Brahmānanda: ...and preach, and some will join.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is actually happening.

French devotee: Prabhupāda, has there been an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa outside India, somewhere else in another part of the world? Or does He always comes in India?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaktyāveṣa avatāra, somebody empowered by Him, not Kṛṣṇa Himself. Just like Christ. Christ is also empowered incarnation. Śaktyāveṣa avatāra. Muhammad is also. Anyone who is preaching about God is empowered incarnation. Kṛṣṇa-śakti vinā nāhi kṛṣṇa nāma-pracāra. That is there in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. [break]

Devotee (2): ...that your initiated disciples had some relationship with Lord Caitanya when He was on this earth?

Prabhupāda: Everyone has relationship, all living entities. [break]

Brahmānanda: He is Viśvambhara, means the maintainer of all living entities. [break]

Prabhupāda: Yes. [reading sign?] Prince of Wales. Prince of Wales, I think this, I think he is dead now. King Edward, I mean to say, George's elder brother? No, not George's. George VI. His elder brother? Edward? When he was Prince of Wales he was actually to be the emperor, or King of England. But he married one common girl, and therefore he was refused. So he, as Prince of Wales, he went to India. And when he saw the bright sunshine, he was surprised. [laughter] Yes.

Brahmānanda: He had never seen.

Prabhupāda: He, or before him, another prince. Because that Prince of... We were at that time children. So I think King George V, when he was Prince of Wales.

Brahmānanda: Oh, when he came to Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen. We were schoolchildren at that time. So on the two sides of the road, our first place was, the king, queen passed. We saw. We were given a flag. [laughter] "Jaya Rāja, Rājeśvara." We were... And very good tiffin was supplied = two samosā, two kachorī, two sandeśa, and one big tangerine. Twice I saw. Once when he entered Calcutta, and again, one day, when there was a parade of military. Military parade. So both days we were invited, and we saw the king. [break]

Brahmānanda: ...Calcutta, on the Maidan, there's that big building, that big memorial. Is that...

Prabhupāda: Oh, Victoria Memorial.

Brahmānanda: That was built for the king when he was coming?

Prabhupāda: No, that was built in memory of Victoria. It was done imitating the Taj Mahal. It took twenty years. Sir Rajendra Nath Mukherjee of Martin Company, he took the contract. And after finishing, he got this title "Sir." And when it was being constructed, I went to the top by crossing the scaffolding.

Brahmānanda: So you must have been very brave.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am still brave. [laughter] Otherwise how could I come alone to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness? I am still brave.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Some astrologer told that "This boy, for executing his purpose, he will enter into the fire." Yes. [break] ...recently, in our Bombay affair, it was fight with the fire. Is it not?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: And we have come out victorious.

Brahmānanda: Yes. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So much obstacle, still going on. Now the governor is cornered.

Brahmānanda: The governor of Maharashtra.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bombay. If he says yes, that is also dangerous; if he says no, that is also dangerous. [break]

Brahmānanda: We do not really understand how demoniac, how calculating, our leaders are.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Brahmānanda: We have the impression, because we are taught from the very beginning in the schools, that the leaders are to be worshiped, that their birthdays are to be celebrated...

Prabhupāda: Where you are going?

Śrutakīrti: He's going to pick up that lawyer.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Brahmānanda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things = famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy---means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra---anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Devotee (2): Even if we present a Kṛṣṇa conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Canada we have got already temples.

Brahmānanda: Candidate. Someone to stand for the election.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, and when they will vote, that is certain. Otherwise, it is waste of time. [end]