Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.8.7 , Los Angeles , 1975-02-10

Prabhupāda: [Prema-dhvani] Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Where is karatāla? My karatāla is in that... Where is Nitāi?

Jayatīrtha: [indistinct]

Prabhupāda: Heh?

Jayatīrtha: It was planned for you to lecture this evening, rather than this morning.

Prabhupāda: Management?

Devotee: He thought you were lecturing this evening.

Prabhupāda: Evening? Not in the morning?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Where is Nitāi?

Prabhupāda: I was lecturing in the morning at...

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: If you like, I can lecture in the evening also. If you like, I can speak in the evening also.

Devotees: [very loud cheering] Jaya! Haribol!


Prabhupāda: [sings Jaya Rādhā-Mādhava] [audio distorted]


Devotee: Mothers take their children outside. [indistinct]

Nitāi: [leads chanting of verse, etc.]

yad adhātu-mato brahman
dehārambho 'sya dhātubhiḥ
yadṛcchayā hetunā vā
bhavanto jānate yathā

[break] [03:47]

Prabhupāda: ...being completely aware of Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, not a bogus. If you want to receive knowledge, then you must approach a guru who is brahma-niṣṭham. That is the qualification of guru. Brahman, brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. These words are there. He is living in Brahman, Absolute Truth. He has no other business. That is guru.

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti tad jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

Tattva-darśinaḥ, "who has seen the truth," not imagination. He cannot be guru. Who has actually seen, tattva-darśinaḥ. These are the injunction in the śāstras, and Parīkṣit Mahārāja is strictly following the same principles and asking Parīkṣit..., Śukadeva Gosvāmī, bhavanto jānate yathā: "As you have learned from your predecessor." So that is perfect knowledge. The knowledge is coming from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is all-perfect, and Arjuna is hearing directly from Him, and the statement of Arjuna is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. He understands that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; that is, he acquired knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.

So here the question is... This question is almost inquired by intelligent persons, that "We have come to this material world and suffering, but the living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or God. How he has come to this material world?" That is very intelligent question. Therefore it is said here, yadṛcchayā: "It is automatically, by nature's law," or hetunā, "or there is some cause? Whether there is any cause about the living entities coming down in this material world? Which one is correct?" So without any cause, there cannot be anything. That is logic. And the rascal philosophers' statement, "It happened automatically. There was a chunk, and the creation came...," this is rascals' philosophy. Jagad āhur anīśvaram [Bg. 16.8]. The rascals, they do not accept that there is a cause of this creation. That they do not understand. They do not know, and they theorize. You'll find mostly in the Western countries all these philosophers... The Darwin's theory... He cannot give any reasonable cause. Some theory = "It may be," "Perhaps," "For millions of years there was no..." Speculate. And he admits that "Whatever I am presenting, it is all my speculation." You have seen his letter, some, from 150 years ago. He wrote a letter to a friend. He admitted that "Whatever I am presenting, that is speculation." But science is not speculation. Science cannot be speculation. That is not science. "Two plus two equal to four"---this is science. And if you speculate---"Two plus two equal to five" or "Two plus two equal to three"---that is not science.

So the science of Kṛṣṇa is not speculation. It is exactly science. Tad-vijñānam. Tad-vijñānam. Tad-vijñānārtham. Vijñāna means science, not speculation. So one should understand God scientifically. That is required, not imagination. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say, "You can imagine your God." This is rascaldom. How you can imagine your God? God is God. God means the supreme controller, the Supreme Being. In the dictionary you'll find this word = "God means the Supreme Being." He is also a being like us, individual. Just like we are here, face to face. You are one individual; I am one individual. We are talking or hearing. Similarly, God is also individual. Just like Kṛṣṇa said,

imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt

So He's individual person. He instructed the sun-god millions and millions of years ago. So Arjuna inquired, "How it is possible that millions of years ago...? Because You are my contemporary. You are of the same age." So Kṛṣṇa said that "Millions of millions of years ago, when I spoke this philosophy to the sun-god, you were also present, because you are My intimate friend. Whenever I descend, you are also there. But the difference is that you have forgotten; I remember that I said like this."

So that is the difference between Kṛṣṇa and ordinary living being. Kṛṣṇa remembers everything, knows everything. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni [Bg. 7.26] = "I know everything." That is Kṛṣṇa. But we do not know. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa is not impersonal. He's also a person, but He is not a person like us, like you, like me. His personality is supreme. Nobody is greater than Him. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate [Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8]. These are the Vedic information. He's individual, but He has nothing to do. He's such individual. Just like Kṛṣṇa is here. The whole world is going on under Kṛṣṇa's direction, but He has nothing to do. He's enjoying with Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī. That is Kṛṣṇa's position. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt [Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12]. He has to create one universe or destroy one universe---He hasn't to take any attention. He's engaged in His pleasure---Kṛṣṇa, the reservoir of pleasure. His pleasure is never disturbed by all these activities. He's so perfect. Just like in our Society, we are not perfect. Still, you boys and girls, you love me. Whatever I say, immediately done. So if an ordinary person like me, he can do things without his personal endeavor, how far..., how Kṛṣṇa is great, that na tat-samaḥ, there is nobody equal to Him. How great He is, how powerful He is, you can just imagine. If the ordinary person can have some power that he hasn't got to do anything personally---simply by his desire everything is done---so why not Kṛṣṇa also? Where is the difficulty?

In the Bible I think it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? So that is Kṛṣṇa. He simply desires, "Let there be creation," and immediately everything is ready. That is Kṛṣṇa. How it is being done? Automatically? No automatically. It is done regularly, as you do. Hetunā: there is cause. But the original cause is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam [Bs. 5.1].

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ

[Bs. 5.1]

The original desire is Kṛṣṇa's. What we are doing also, that is also, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. We cannot do anything independently. If I go to heaven or go to hell, that is also sanctioned by Kṛṣṇa. Without Kṛṣṇa's desire I cannot do anything. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛd ca aham

So this theory that the world is going automatically or we have come into this material world without any reason, without any cause... Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. They say, the rascal says, that our coming to this material world is to the lusty desires of the father and mother. Therefore the child has no meaning. It is a by-product of the lusty desire. So if I don't want it, kill it, destroy it. This is going on. But that is not the fact. The child has come into the womb of the mother, a particular type of mother, not the sa..., every mother is producing the same type of child. No. Why? There is cause. There is cause, hetunā. Without cause there cannot be anything. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1], the cause is his activities. According to the activities, he is producing the next body automatically. That is automatically. But there is cause, his activity.

That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā = kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu [Bg. 13.22]. Kāraṇam. Kāraṇam means cause. What is the cause? The cause is that as he's associating with a particular type of the modes of nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa... If he's associating with tamo-guṇa, then next life he's preparing in the lower animal kingdoms or most degraded family. Jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ [Bg. 14.8]. If one is associating with tamo-guṇa, ignorance---no knowledge; in the darkness---then he is gliding down to the lower species of life = animal, birds, beast, trees, plants, aquatics, insects, serpents---so many. Adho gacchanti. Adhaḥ means going down. Tāmasāḥ. And ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are in the goodness, those who are associating with the modes of material nature in goodness, just like satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42] = brahminical qualification---truthful, controlling the mind, controlling the senses, simplicity, tolerant, full faith in scripture and God, full knowledge, practical application of knowledge... This is called sattva-guṇa. So if you cultivate sattva-guṇa, then you are elevated to the higher planetary system. Why there are so many planets? The moon planet, the sun planet, so brilliant planets---why there are? There are also different places for different kinds of living creature. There is hetu. There is cause. And similarly, rajo-guṇa, passionate... So madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ.

So there is hetu. Hetu means cause. Not without cause. Nobody has taken birth in this material world without any cause. And according to the cause, the particular type of body is built up. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa [SB 3.31.1]. A big science there is. Unfortunately there is no education for this science. Maybe in future they will take interest. As we are publishing the books and going to the universities and to the professors, there may be. There is possibility now. Otherwise these rascal did not know what is the science. They did not care. Big, big professors, big, big scientists, they are putting the theories that life has come from chemicals, chemical evolution, and they are getting Nobel Prize. And if they are offered that "Take these chemicals. Produce a life," they'll deny.

So this ignorance is going on. Therefore for future guidance, Parīkṣit Mahārāja inquired this question, that "How the living entity got this body, material body? Whether it is automatically, without any cause, or with cause?" But with cause... It will be explained. It is not... When the cause is there... Just like if you infect some disease, automatically you'll suffer from the disease. It will come automatically. That is automatically. But your becoming infected, that is cause. So if you become cautious not to be infected, then the cause of lower birth or suffering you can avoid. Therefore we have started this Society. Society. Society means that you'll get here the cause of being elevated. Just like there are so many Societies, equal class of men = "Birds of the same feather flock together." So here is a Society. Who will flock here? Who will come here? Because this Society is meant for liberation. People are suffering so much on account of material condition of life. Nobody is happy. That is a fact. But because they are in ignorance, they are accepting unhappiness as happiness. This is called māyā. This is called māyā.

Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. This māyā is very much manifest in sex life. They accept the sex life is very nice, but after that, there is so many distresses. Legal or illegal, it doesn't matter. Legal distresses or illegal distresses, but it is distress. Every one of us, we know. Therefore everything---to make the best use of a bad bargain. We have got this material body. The cause was there. The cause was there that because we wanted to enjoy and did not like to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is the cause. Kṛṣṇa-boliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare [Prema-vivarta]. We are serving Kṛṣṇa. That is our, I mean to say, place, constitutional position, to serve Kṛṣṇa. But sometimes we desire, "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I serve the spiritual master? I shall enjoy. I shall enjoy." But that enjoyment was there by serving Kṛṣṇa, but he wanted to become enjoyer independent of Kṛṣṇa. That is the cause of falldown. With Kṛṣṇa, you can enjoy very nicely. You have seen the picture, how with Kṛṣṇa the gopīs are nicely dancing, enjoying; the cowherd boys are playing, enjoying. With Kṛṣṇa, that is your real enjoyment. But without Kṛṣṇa, when you want to enjoy, that is māyā. That is māyā.

So māyā is there always, and... Because unless there is darkness, you cannot appreciate the quality of brightness; therefore Kṛṣṇa has created darkness, māyā also, so that you can appreciate what is brightness. Two things are required. Without brightness, the darkness cannot be appreciated, and darkness..., without darkness, the brightness cannot be appreciated. The two things are there, side by side. Just like there is sunlight, and here is shadow, side by side. You can remain within the shadow; you can remain within the sunshine. That is your choice. If we remain in the darkness, then our life is miserable, and if we remain in the light, brightness... Therefore Vedic literature instructs us, tamasi mā: "Don't remain in the dark." Jyotir gama: "Go to the light." So this attempt, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is an attempt to bring people from darkness to the light. So don't misuse this opportunity. Some way or other, you have come in contact with this movement. Properly utilize it. Don't go to the darkness. Always remain in bright light.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. [kīrtana]

Prabhupāda: [prema-dhvani] Thank you very much.

Devotees: All glories to Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. [end]