Garden Conversation , Vṛndāvana , 1974-09-11
Prabhupāda: It will go on like that. In America, in Moscow, why you are envious of me? That disease is there. His enviousness is a different quality. Actually, comparing with America, the people are more happy in America, not in Russia. It's a fact. I have seen it. They are terrorized. No freedom. So everyone is terrorized. They must be. What is that? Is that life? I have to live under terrorism conditions. I must do it. [indistinct] This is not life.
Brahmānanda: Here comes Gurudāsa. [break]
Gurudāsa: [making notes on tape] Morning, 11 September, 1974, Vṛndāvana. Śrīla Prabhupāda was saying that manager and assisting managers is not difficult, except that all the European and American boys didn't understand the concept of prabhu. We each call each other prabhu, but we are thinking that "I am prabhu, and all others are servants," not that the one I am calling prabhu or the one who is calling me prabhu are mutual prabhus. [break]
Brahmānanda: He's typing the tapes now. To type one tape takes him about eight hours.
Prabhupāda: Eight hours?
Prabhupāda: How is that?
Brahmānanda: That is the usual time.
Devotee (1): It's not possible.
Devotee (1): It's not possible to take so long.
Brahmānanda: But he puts the Bengali and the Sanskrit in.
Devotee (1): They were telling me three to four hours.
Brahmānanda: Who? [break]
Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhāgavata is being accepted everywhere. Big, big libraries, universities. University, Bombay University. As far as possible [indistinct] all colleges. [break] There is no [indistinct] making word meaning, word-to-word meaning [indistinct]. When there is word... [break] You should be clear of all questions possible. Then you will be able to push very forcibly. You must be prepared to answer all the questions.
Brahmānanda: Prabhupāda, one question = You say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will solve all problems. But factually, there are so many problems in the world that aren't being solved.
Brahmānanda: So many problems in the world, and many say that they can solve all the problems. So what is the proof?
Prabhupāda: They could not. The problems are there.
Brahmānanda: Sometimes we are criticized. They say, "Oh, you say you can solve all problems. That is utopian. That is..."
Prabhupāda: Not utopian. You do not know. Because just like when you are diseased, there is problem. So to solve that problem, where do you go? Hmm?
Brahmānanda: To the doctor.
Prabhupāda: To the qualified physician, not to the storekeeper. Similarly, first thing is, when you want to solve the problem, you must go to the right person. First of all you have to select. So we understand that Kṛṣṇa is the right person. So therefore, it is guaranteed. He knows everything. Others, they do not know. May know to some extent; not perfect. The first thing is that we have to select from whom. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. In Vedas it is stated in order to solve the problem or to understand the situation, you should go to the guru. So who can be better than Kṛṣṇa as guru? He taught, He gave lesson to Brahmā, the original living being in this universe. Tene brahma hṛdā. He gave lesson to Brahmā how to create. Therefore, who can be better guru than Kṛṣṇa? Or even Brahmā. Brahmā, [indistinct] he has created this universe, but He taught Brahmā. And Kṛṣṇa is accepted the supreme guru. To take instruction from Him or His pure representative, that is wanted. Otherwise, there will be trouble[?]. You cannot compare any ordinary person with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the original guru, instructor. You do not know about Kṛṣṇa, that is a different thing. But if you want to solve your problems, you must approach the guru. That is the Vedic instruction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. This verb is used when you must = no excuse, gacchet, vidhi-liṅ. In Sanskrit there are different forms of verb. So when vidhi-liṅ is used, that means you must. There is no question of alternative. You must.
So Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Tene brahma ādi-kavaye, ādi-kavi. Ādi-kavaye means ādi-kavi, the original learned scholar. How much brain he has that he has created this universe, Brahmā. He has created the demigods, he has created the planets, so who can [indistinct]? And he was instructed by Kṛṣṇa. So who can be better guru than Him? And so far you are concerned, you cannot [indistinct]. You have not solved any question. Therefore required, they say, revolution. Problem is not solved. We are accepting one wrong process, and after going through it for some time, we want to change it. That is not solution. That means you do not know how to make it solved; you're simply trying this method, that method, this method, that method. That is [indistinct]. That is not perfect. But because you cannot solve, therefore you say that a periodical revolution is required, because you have no solution. You do not know how to solve, but you accept some process for some time, and when you see it is useless, you make revolution, another [indistinct]. Imperfect. This is punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. Practically we see that. There is sex. Material life means sex pleasure. You told me you were in Mexico, in the street they are having sex?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, meaning in public?
Prabhupāda: Yes, you told me. What is that?
Brahmānanda: They have it with..., you mean with the asses?
Prabhupāda: Just see. Public street. Because they do not know except sex, they think this kind of sex is very nice. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30] = chewing the chewed.
Brahmānanda: They're not satisfied with sex with a man, so they have it with an ass.
Prabhupāda: [greeting someone] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Their center is sex---this sex or that sex or that sex, even ordinarily. In Paris, Paris you know, it is a city of prostitutes. On the roads there are prostitutes. Where we have got our temple, so many prostitutes are standing. And those who are prostitute-hunters, they go to Paris. From our childhood I know about one family physician. We are at that time boy, eight or ten years old. He was talking with his another Muhammadan friend how he toured many countries and how many different types of prostitutes he taste. This was his talk. So he was talking of Paris, "Though you are boy..." This we could understand. This is the talk. Old men, retired men, they will also talk of the sex [indistinct], and they will enjoy. Now they could not enjoy sex, but by talking... And we have practically seen when we were young, our grandmother-in-law, my father-in-law's mother, old lady, she would talk freely about sex. She will ask me, "You capture the breast of your wife." She would make a pun and enjoy. "You do like that, you do like that." She teaches like that. We were... I was twenty, twenty-three years, so I was just married, but she will enjoy sex. She had other grandchildren. My father-in-law were two brothers. So my father-in-law, he was younger brother, and his elder brother, her daughter was of the same age, she would enjoy [indistinct] grandson-in-law. There is a proverb... [indistinct][breaks] Ministers, nine ministers. The minister, famous.
Prabhupāda: Birbal. So Akbar Vasar asked Birbal, "What is your idea of sex life? How long it continues?" He answered, "Up to the point of death." "No, no. I don't believe it." "All right." So one day, all of a sudden Birbal came to Akbar Vasar's house, "Sir, you have to go with me immediately with your youngest daughter." So Akbar Vasar's daughter, king's daughter, very [indistinct]. So the father and the daughter and Birbal went to see one dying man. The man was dying, and he asked, Birbal [indistinct] that "You simply see his face." So when he was entering, that man was looking to that young girl, not the Akbar Vasar. He was looking over that young girl. Both of them are intelligent. Then Akbar Vasar said, "Yes. You are right"
And our śāstra says, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. What is the happiness of the gṛhastha life? Gṛhastha is different, gṛhamedhi. There are two words. Gṛhastha means living husband and wife together, but the aim is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And gṛhamedhi means he has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore his life is sex. That is the difference. Therefore, this word is used, gṛhamedhi. Yan maithunādi. What is the standard of happiness? Maithuna, sex, that's all. Yan maithunādi. All these gṛhasthas, you will find they are accumulating money, they are enjoying sex life, then daughter's sex life, son's sex life, grandson's sex life. They are busy. Especially in India you will find, they spend thousands lakhs of rupees for son's and daughter's and grandson's sex life. Is it not? That is their happiness. "I am enjoying sex life." Just like my grandmother-in-law. She is concentrating on sex life. So she was old; she had no opportunity. Let grandson-in-law, granddaughter. One who is impotent, he wants to see others enjoying sex life. You know this? He enjoys. He cannot do it. There are many person, he is impotent, so he brings another man to his wife, then he watches. You know this? This is going on. Sex. They will see the dog's sex life, very [indistinct], how he is enjoying. Cow's sex life. Dog is having sex, and there will be a crowd.
This is the basic principle of material life = sex. In this way, prostitution, this way, that way, that way, that way. This is the only point. There is no other aim. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. And this kind of happiness is most abominable. Most abominable. But that is the center of happiness. Is it not? Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham. Most abominable part of the body for passing urine, obnoxious smell, but that is the point of life. How much degraded this material life. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ. The śāstra has picked up most abominable thing = that is the point of pleasure. Yan maithunādi. Maithunādi, either he himself, or for his son, for his grandson, for his great-grandson, the family. Very aristocratic.
So if we study analytically, we can understand that how much we are in illusion. This most abominable thing, we are taking it is the center of happiness. [break] Therefore, Vaiṣṇava [indistinct]. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān, śoce tato vimukha-cetasa [SB 7.9.43]. These rascals, they are enjoying a certain type of most abominable happiness. Tato vimukha-cetasa indriyārtha. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me, I have no problem. All problems solved." Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaraṇyām tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ. "I am not afraid of this material world, because I have learned how to enjoy life simply by thinking of Your pastimes. But I am unhappy." Soce. Soce means unhappy. Why? Tato vimukha-cetasa. "These rascals who have no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have made huge arrangement simply for sex." Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. "I am thinking of these rascals, how they can be delivered from this fallen condition."
So the Vaiṣṇava has no problem; he has got Kṛṣṇa. But he wants to preach to save these rascals. This is Vaiṣṇava's duty. But if he is fallen himself, how he can save others? That is not possible. Then it will be andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31], one blind man is leading other blind men. What is that? They will all fall into ditch. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore said, bharata-bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari' [Cc. Ādi 9.41] = "First of all you be perfect, because you have got opportunity, and then do para-upakāra. Then go to other countries and deliver them." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Not that you remain blind and go there. Just like all these rascal svāmīs and yogīs, they are blind. They do not know what is spiritual life. Andhā yathāndhair. They are blind, and their talks are simply big, big talks, [indistinct]. Here also, this Rakhanananda[?], he is speaking on Bhāgavata. He is a rascal, blind; he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He is misleading others. You have seen in Bombay that Sadajivatlal[?] brought some pictures?
Prabhupāda: Mīrābhāi is becoming mixed up with Kṛṣṇa. Have seen it?
Brahmānanda: Yes, that was the final point. She worshiped Kṛṣṇa throughout her whole life so at the end she could become one with Him.
Prabhupāda: This is going on, the Māyāvādī rascals. But they do not refer where Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee, then you become pushed [indistinct]."
Brahmānanda: They showed the two bodies coming together.
Brahmānanda: I think the picture of the two bodies...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You and Me and all these soldiers, we existed before, we are existing now, and we shall exist in this way in future." Where does He say that "We shall be mixed up"? Never says. And these rascals, they have got so many parties, the same thing. Where do you get this idea? There is sayujya-mukti, but Kṛṣṇa never says that "You take it." All this Ramakrishna Mission, all these, this [indistinct], he gives the example that rivers come from different sources, but when it comes to the ocean it is mixed up. Why don't you see within the water? Within the water there are big, big fishes, they do not mix up with the water. They see superficially the water. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31]. Our philosophy is, "Come. Come here, play with Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy. Come here, dance with Kṛṣṇa as gopī. Come here, accept Kṛṣṇa as your son; Kṛṣṇa will accept you as your [His] mother." There will be always two, and enjoy, any way. Even as enemy, demon displaying part of enemy, Kṛṣṇa killing, that is also pastime too. That is also enjoyment. Just like sometimes we fight, friend to friend, to enjoy life, because fighting is enjoyment. To become enemy of Kṛṣṇa purposefully, and to fight with Him, that is giving pleasure to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying, and He also becomes so staunch enemy. So this is also transcendental pleasure. Just like Bhīṣma. He is piercing the body of Kṛṣṇa, and He is coming with cakra. That is a pleasure. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying being pierced by His devotee. And devotee is enjoying, "Now Kṛṣṇa is coming to kill me."
So any way you can deal with Kṛṣṇa and enjoy transcendental pleasure, either as enemy or as friend or as son or as lover, as master, as a servant---any way. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to deal with you any way, in twelve rasas, akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Raso vai saḥ, in the Vedas, He is the reservoir of all pleasure, transcendental. Labdha-nandini[?]. When we exchange rasa, transcendental mellow, labdha-nandini[?], then we get transcendental bliss. As the materialist has centered round the sex, this way, that way, similarly the transcendentalists, they are..., their center is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. So if you want to enjoy life making Kṛṣṇa as the center, that is eternal happiness. And this life means it is not eternal. Now you enjoy sex as human being, next as dog, next as monkey, next as flies, next as this, next as that. The center is sex, but you have to change according to your mental condition at the time of death in different body. That is not eternal. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. You accept one type of body, enjoy sex according to that body, then you accept another body. Sex life is there. As human being, sex life; and as a dog, there is sex life; as a fly, sex life. Fly also enjoys sex life. You have seen?
Brahmānanda: Yes, in [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: The center is sex. The birds.
Brahmānanda: The birds also.
nava-nava-rasa-dhāmany [udyataṁ] rantum āsīt
tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne
bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca
Yāmunācārya. He was a great king. So his.... As king, his life was sex. But then he became a devotee, he admits, yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde: "Since I have learned how to enjoy association with the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and I get more and more eternal transcendental bliss, since that time," bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne, "even if I think of sex life with woman," bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ, mukha-vikāraḥ, "I taste that [indistinct]," suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ, [makes spitting sound]. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When the mind will be fixed up, [spitting sound], these things, then you enter Kṛṣṇa's [indistinct]. Otherwise, it is mixed up. You have to purify. When this attitude, we [spitting noise]---"What is this?"---then Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins. This is the proof, Yāmunācārya. Tadavadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāne. So not actually doing; simply by thinking, "Oh, I was doing this. [spitting noise] What I was?" this is liberation. Even if I think mentally, that means I will have to take birth again. Again and again. This is the criteria. They think mentally. They read so many novels, fiction. The same thing---the sex life. And these ordinary men, they read Bhāgavata, hear Bhāgavata, rasa-līlā. They think, "Here is the same thing. Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs do like this, the same thing. So why not hear this?" But actually, śāstra says if one hears rasa-līlā, then that lusty desires will be finished.
śraddhānvito 'nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
bhaktiṁ parāṁ [bhagavati] pratilabhya hṛd-rogam
kāmaṁ apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ
That is the result. If one actually hears from the right source [indistinct], then this lusty desire of sex life will be finished. No more. Hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. Sober. But these people, they are hearing life after life by the sex concentration, making offense that Kṛṣṇa is also doing the same things. They publish book. One rascal Bhaṭṭācārya has published. In Paris we saw.
Devotee (2): The Myth of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rascal, sex life. Rādhārāṇī naked, he has given the first picture, and that is published by the United Nation.
Gurudāsa: The United Nations is also encouraging sex.
Prabhupāda: They do not know except this thing, anyone. Anyone. They have no other desire. That without sex life there can be higher transcendental, eternal pleasure, they do not know it. Whole world, whole universe, whole material creation is centered round that. It is the pivot. That I have already explained. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. That is there. They do not know anything else.
Brahmānanda: That was one of your first instructions to me when I came to see you. I was telling you about a professor, one of my professors who saw that all literature, all culture, all poetry, everything was simply motivated by sex life, and you said that he was right. I thought he was wrong, but you said no, he was right, and you explained about the same point.
Prabhupāda: Therefore the Freud's philosophy is centered around sex. They do not know. How they can know? Only the Kṛṣṇa conscious person, that is yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde nava-nava-dhāmany udyatam. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he was a young man. Beautiful young prostitute at dead of night came to canvass. "Yes, sit down. I shall finish this Hare Kṛṣṇa." So Haridāsa Ṭhākura took his compassion = "This woman has come to me. All right." Three days she became purified. Immediately fell down, "Thank you very much. Now I can understand." "Now you have to sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." [end]