Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-Van-Kha , Paris , 1974-06-15

Prabhupāda: In old age he'll be crippled like that. Then he said that "I am also going to be like that? No. What is the value?" Then he began meditation, how to stop old age. Then he gradually became very great, saintly person and studied Veda, karma. And by bad karma, one becomes subjected with material tribulation, and the most of the bad karma, he thought, was killing of animals, so he wanted to stop this. That is Buddha's..., "Stop animal killing." Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam.

Yogeśvara: He's viṣṇu-tattva?

Prabhupāda: No, he's not viṣṇu-tattva. He's jīva-tattva.

Yogeśvara: Śaktyāveśāvatāra.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotee: Did you say three? One or three?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: When you offer something... You once said in Delhi, "Either one or three."

Prabhupāda: That is neck bead. No. Yes. Yes, not... Yes, yes. Ārati. Ārati.

Devotee: Yes, Śrutakīrti had offered my son two cookies.

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Devotee: And I think you said, "Either one or three."

Prabhupāda: No, no. I said...

Devotee: Two or four?

Prabhupāda: Two or four.

Devotee: Is there some reason behind this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Three is offered to the enemy. If I offer something, three, that means "You are my enemy."

Devotee: So how many sticks of incense? Two?

Prabhupāda: There is no such...

Yogeśvara: Now, one thing is that we accept Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa on reference from Vedas, but Buddha denied the value of the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualification. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended---some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating; just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian = "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish, therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. Just see their brain.

Yogeśvara: When you were here last year, there was a meeting at the Indian Tourist Bureau, a press meeting, and there was a man who came to meet you at that time who is president of the court of Paris. And he was supposed to be a Buddhist. Do you remember this gentleman? He said to you that "Meat-eating... We must eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascal, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they don't want to be saved, if they want to go to hell, who can check? Ātma-hā. Ātma-hā means "self-suicide." Suicide, yes. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So they are all these like that, all, all these Buddhists, Christian. We may not speak very strongly; they will be our enemies.

Bhagavān: There's other guests here.

Prabhupāda: Shortly. But this is the position. They're all rascals. But we don't hate anyone. We want to raise them. Actually, they're all rascals. Do you accept this philosophy?

Yogeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...that they are all rascals?

[greeting guests:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Let them come forward. Jaya.

Bhagavān: Please come. Sit. Please come, sit. [break]

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Yogeśvara: This gentleman is Mr. Tran-Van-Kha, the president of...

Pṛthu-putra: Mrs. Basti here, she is the president of the Society of Buddhists in France. And...

Guest (1): Thomas Dhu.

Prabhupāda: Sit down.

Pṛthu-putra: He's the president, [indistinct] honor of honors. Mr. Tran-Van-Kha was ambassador from Vietnam...

Prabhupāda: Vietnam.

Pṛthu-putra: ...in America twenty years ago, and he's now president of the Society of Buddhists in France.

Prabhupāda: If... Vietnam fight is stopped? No?

Yogeśvara: Vietnam War? Well, they say.

Prabhupāda: So Vietnam, they profess Buddhist religion?

[Pṛthu-putra translates into French throughout]

Guest (1): [French]

Pṛthu-putra: Eighty percent.

Prabhupāda: So the Buddhist religion, so far we know, they are nonviolent.

Guest (1): [French]

Pṛthu-putra: And tolerance. This gentleman added tolerance.

Prabhupāda: Tolerance. If one is nonviolent, he must learn tolerance. We pray Lord Buddha = nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam: "My Lord, you, for the time being, you are decrying the Vedic authority." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic rituals. Śruti means Vedas. It is learned by hearing. Why he decried the Vedic rituals? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam: "You are so much compassionate by seeing animals sacrificed," animal killing. Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. Ghātam means killing. So he wanted to stop this animal killing, sinful life. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare: "My Lord, you have appeared now as Lord Buddha. I offer my respectful obeisances unto you." Our... I think picture is there, Lord Buddha's picture.

Yogeśvara: In the Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not Bhagavad-gītā.

Dhanañjaya: The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, back side, the daśāviddha. Daśāviddha you do not see?

Pṛthu-putra: [explains in French the picture in Second Canto]

Prabhupāda: He was Hindu in the beginning. [aside:] Come on. He was prince, then he became renounced and he was known as Lord Buddha. So Lord Buddha also started his system for stopping animal killing. Lord Jesus also said, "Thou shall not kill." Unfortunately, the animal killing is not stopped. We are therefore teaching our followers "No meat-eating," so that if people stop meat-eating, automatically animal killing will be stopped. According to Vedic system, there are four pillars of sinful life, just like this table is on the four pillars. So one pillar is illicit sex; another, meat-eating; another, intoxication; and another, gambling. So at least the brāhmaṇas, the priestly heads of religion, the king and the public leader, they should stop these four sinful activities. The leaders of the society, they must be sinless. Then the human society will make nice progress. In the Bhagavad gītā it is stated, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas.

Ācarati.

Yogeśvara: What is second line?

Prabhupāda: Sa yat pramāṇam kurute. In the 'yad' you did not find?

Yogeśvara: Y-a-d?

Prabhupāda: Yes, y-a-d. Yad yad.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

Translation = "Whatever action is performed by a great man, common men follow in his footsteps. And whatever standards he sets by exemplary acts, all the world pursues."

[Pṛthu-putra translates verse] [pause]

Yogeśvara: When we were at your meeting a few weeks ago, there was..., we felt very encouraged because there was very nice interest in how it was that these young Western boys and girls had been able to take to this form of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. [French, asks for questions]

Lady (1): [French]

Yogeśvara: Last night, at the conference hall, this lady heard your lecture about how the soul reincarnates in different kinds of bodies. So she wants to know how is this possible, because in the West, our understanding is that the animal forms do not possess a soul.

Prabhupāda: How does..., she can prove that she does not..., it does not possess a soul?

Pṛthu-putra: [explaining question] She just doesn't understand. She does not say that. She does not understand.

Prabhupāda: No. She admits man has got soul, and animal has not soul.

Yogeśvara: See, what she says, this is the traditional Western idea.

Prabhupāda: But that idea is wrong.

Lady (1): [French]

Yogeśvara: She was hoping to receive a more detailed explanation of the process.

Prabhupāda: First of all, let us see what are the symptoms of having soul. [to lady:] Sit... You can come here. Let her come.

Yogeśvara: Ask the lady to have a better seat.

Prabhupāda: Come here.

Pṛthu-putra: See, there she has a seat.

Prabhupāda: Never mind, you can sit down here. Bring that chair.

Devotee: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yogeśvara: Sylvie has a question.

Lady (2): I want to ask you, what does it [indistinct] when you..., when there's talk of this religion of Kṛṣṇa? Is it before Christ, or more?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yogeśvara: This, the question of religion, did it come before Christ or before Buddha?

Prabhupāda: Yes, 5,000 years ago.

Lady (2): Yes, before.

Prabhupāda: Five thousand years.

Pṛthu-putra: [translates into French]

Lady (2): Five thousand years, eh?

Prabhupāda: This is now. Before that, this was spoken some millions of years ago to the sun-god. [aside:] You find out that verse, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1].

Yogeśvara: 4.1.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Fourth Chapter, first verse.

Pṛthu-putra:

[French translation]

Prabhupāda: So, if you take the calculation of Manu, Manu lives for 72,000 of yugas. One yuga is 4,300,000 of years; 4,300,000 years, one yuga. Multiply by 72. So that is the age of Manu. So at least so many years before, Bhagavad-gītā was spoken to Manu's father, Sūrya. Sūrya, the sun-god. Sun-god. So how many millions?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About 120 million years ago. [devotees figure out calculation]

Yogeśvara: About 300 million years ago.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this philosophy was spoken 300 millions of years ago. And then again, He spoke 5,000 years ago. This is the history of Bhagavad-gītā. Now, your question. You say that animal has no soul, is it not? That a man has soul, you admit?

Lady (1): [French]

Yogeśvara: Generally in the West it is admitted that the man possesses a soul and not the animals.

Prabhupāda: So why this difference? What difference you find in animal from the man?

Lady (1): [French discussion among guests on this point]

Yogeśvara: She says it is only the body that is different.

Prabhupāda: Only body difference? The mans, they has got body difference. The..., the Africans, they have got different body. And the [indistinct] Europeans have different body. There are so many men. The aborigines have got different body. So there so many men, human also.

Yogeśvara: So then that is not the real difference?

Prabhupāda: So what is the real difference, that I want to explain.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: So what is her reply? Suppose a child has a different body...

Lady (3): [French]

Yogeśvara: This young lady suggests that the animals do have a soul, and that they also pass from body to body, and perhaps ultimately can come to the human form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the explanation. You are right.

Guest (2): [French]

Pṛthu-putra: He says the evolution was already before, because in the vegetables is already this process of evolution of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Every living entity has soul. The body is just like the dress. Just like you are sitting here under different dresses, but that does not mean we are different. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā = vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. [aside:] Find out this, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22].

Yogeśvara: Second Chapter.

Prabhupāda: You can take it. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya, navāni gṛhṇāti jatā 'parāṇi.

Yogeśvara:

[French translation] "As a person put on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones."

Prabhupāda: This is the point. Just like I've already changed. I was a child, so small. Where is that body? That is no longer existing. But still I remember that I had the body. So I changed that body so many times. Similarly, when this body will be useless, I change another body. This is conclusion. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā = dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: 2.13

Yogeśvara:

[French translation] "As the embodied soul continually passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. The self-realized soul is not bewildered by such a change."

Prabhupāda: So, not only the animal. The trees, the plants, the insects, the birds, the bees, the aquatic animal, fish---everyone has got soul. So anything which has got life symptom, it is due to soul, and so long the soul is there, the change of body takes place. A child born, if it is dead, the change of body does not take place. You cannot understand?

Lady (2): No.

Prabhupāda: You have got now a different body, but you had a body like a child. So you cannot understand this? How is that? Even a child can understand. You were also sometimes a body like this young girl. You do not believe that?

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: She says she can recollect.

Prabhupāda: No, but who recollects? The soul. The body is changed. The body is changed, but the soul is the same, and therefore she can recollect.

Lady (3): [French]

Yogeśvara: She says there is an example of the worm that turns into a butterfly. It changes body.

Prabhupāda: Yes, she is right.

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: [French] Do you have any questions?

Guest (3): [French]

Yogeśvara: He says there is an example that a flower grows, and when it dies it gives its perfume to God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very good idea. Therefore, everyone can dedicate his energy to God. And that is called bhakti.

Guest (4): [French]

Yogeśvara: Is the sun to be considered a representation of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, every..., everyone is representation of God. Sun is more powerful representation. You are also representation of God. God is also a living being. That is said in the dictionary, Oxford Dictionary. God means, "supreme being." So we are all beings, and God is the Supreme Being. We are limited by our power; God is unlimited by His power.

Lady (3): [French]

Yogeśvara: When we say "Kṛṣṇa," are we speaking about God or an incarnation of God? How do we define it?

Prabhupāda: No, God Himself.

Lady (4): [French]

Yogeśvara: Then what is the meaning of the word ātmā?

Prabhupāda: Ātmā means also God. Ātmā means this body. Ātmā means this mind. Ātmā means the soul. And ātmā means also God. Ātmā means the active principle which is working. Just like in you the ātmā is there, therefore your body is moving. Similarly, the active principle of the whole cosmic manifestation is God.

Guest (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: What is the meaning of the different cakras?

Prabhupāda: Different?

Yogeśvara: Cakra, cakras.

Prabhupāda: Cakra?

Yogeśvara: Cakras.

Prabhupāda: That is yogic process. Those who are trying to find out the Supreme from the body, for them the different cakras mean the active principle, how He is working in different places. From the abdomen to the heart, then here, then here, then here, ṣaṭ-cakra, six cakras. That is yogī system.

Guest (1): [French]

Yogeśvara: Do we have a meaning..., do we have a definition for the third eye?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yogeśvara: The third eye.

Prabhupāda: Third eye. The future. Future.

Yogeśvara: Future?

Prabhupāda: Past, present and future.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is a philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that you meditate on some third eye, and this opens up into the..., some spiritual realization, a mystical realization. It is very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Between the two eyebrows, that is said, explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhruvor madhye..., ante kāle ca mām... [aside:] That's Eight Chapter, I think, bhruvor madhye. Eighth Chapter? Hmm. Is it the Eighth Chapter?

Yogeśvara: That is the Eighth Chapter, text 21, 22.

Prabhupāda: Ten. Read.

Yogeśvara:

[French translation] "One who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and in full devotion engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord will certainly attain to the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: This is bhruvor madhye.

Guest (3): [French]

Yogeśvara: He says = today, is it wise to practice this kind of meditation?

Prabhupāda: Useless. [laughs] They cannot. It takes very, very long time to get perfection. Vālmīki Muni got perfection in 60,000 years. Open Sixth Chapter. [aside:] Read this, arjuna uvāca.

Yogeśvara:

[French translation] "Arjuna said, O Madhusūdana, the system of yoga which you have summarized appears impractical and unendurable to me, for the mind is restless and unsteady."

Prabhupāda: Yoga, this yoga system means controlling the mind. But 5,000 years ago a person like Arjuna, who had his friend Kṛṣṇa, he is saying that it is not possible for him. And at the present moment people are so degraded---not in the position of Arjuna---how they can get success? He is not ordinary man. Such a great warrior belonged to the royal family, and so qualified that he could talk with Kṛṣṇa personally, he says that it is not possible. So do you think that you are become more than Arjuna, that you can get success? [aside:] Read this second verse, cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham.

Yogeśvara:

[French translation] "For the mind is restless, turbulent, obstinate and very strong, O Kṛṣṇa, and to subdue it is, it seems to me, more difficult than controlling the wind."

Prabhupāda: So Arjuna is presenting his inability, and what we are?

Guest (3): [French]

Yogeśvara: He says in history there was the mystery of the sphinxes of Egypt. Do these sphinxes carry any significance?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Pṛthu-putra: Is the pyramid and the sphinx in Egypt civilization are any mystic significance?

Yogeśvara: It's a great relevance for the Egyptian civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is just like samādhi. Samādhi, when you become samādhi, then if you're, I mean to say, put within the earth, you do not die.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even if you are put in the earth, you do not die.

Prabhupāda: This is called kumbhaka-yoga.

Guest (3): Kumbha?

Prabhupāda: Kumbhaka. So this is practiced by the frogs also. So if you get success, you get success like a frog.

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: Shall I tell them that story about the frog?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: [French, relates story from papers]

Prabhupāda: That means the frog was buried at least for 10,000 years. Then you read the last paragraph of the yoga system = yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā.

Pṛthu-putra:

[French translation] "And of all yogīs, he who always abides in Me with great faith, worshiping Me in transcendental loving service, is most intimately united with Me in yoga and is the highest of all."

Prabhupāda: We are teaching our students to become the topmost yogī, simply by thinking of Kṛṣṇa 24 hours.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: You chant Hare Krishna, always remember Kṛṣṇa and you become topmost yogī.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: Other processes are very difficult and to attain success takes long, long time.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French]

Pṛthu Putra: [French, telling everyone prasādam is ready]

[break, no discussion for minutes]

Pṛthu Putra: ..... one of the cakras?

Prabhupāda: I do not know, the medical man may know but cakra you can find out anyone. ..[break].. She want to ask any question?

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says, "most of all, we simply wish to thank you, for your message." So he just wants to..

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says that ah...

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says, "A little while ago you said that by practising meditation in this form that was described to Arjuna it will take 60,000 years." And he has a spiritual master who tells him that he can achieve perfection that way in this lifetime. So he says, "if I am wrong please correct me."

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: And what is that success?

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: To realise God.

Prabhupāda: Everyone says, "I have realised God".

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: So, realise God, then describe what is God.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says that he has seen God.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says, "God is light."

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says that in the middle of this light there is a form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so we are worshipping that form, Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Yogeśvara: He says that form was of more bright than a thousand suns.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā = yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi [Bs 5.40]. By the expansion of that rays of God's body, the brahmajyoti and within that brahmajyoti there are millions of universes.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: On account of, the rays of the body of God being spread there are millions and trillions of universes.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: And in each universe there are millions and trillions of planets.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: This is the understanding of the light.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Prabhupāda: That, that light is unlimited.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French] [agrees]

Prabhupāda: So this descriptions are there.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Guest: [French]

Prabhupāda: Hm? And here is also, brahmaṇo haṁ pratiṣṭhā.

Pṛthu Putra: [Aside] that's verse.. 14th chapter.

[French] Hare Krishna.

[Sound of people leaving] Hare Krishna, merci [thank you]

Guest2: [French]

Yogeśvara: He asks, "does God also manifest himself in the form of music?"

Prabhupāda: God manifests himself in any form.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French]

Guest (2): [French]

Prabhupāda: Some of the manifestation is described in the 12th chapter, in here.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: You, you read that 12th chapter.

Pṛthu Putra: 11th chapter?

Prabhupāda: 12th.

Pṛthu Putra: Is that the chapter where Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the taste of the water, light of the sun.."

Prabhupāda: Yes, no, no that is the seventh chapter.

Pṛthu Putra: [indistinct] chapter on devotional service.

Prabhupāda: When Arjuna enquires about your expansion of potencies..

Pṛthu Putra: Opulences?

Prabhupāda: Opulences or potencies.

Pṛthu Putra: So that is..

Yogeśvara: 10th chapter.

Pṛthu Putra: 10th chapter.

Prabhupāda: 10th?

Yogeśvara: 10th. The opulence of the absolute, 10th chapter. [French] "The Blessed Lord said = Yes, I will tell you of My splendorous manifestations, but only of those which are prominent, O Arjuna, for My opulence is limitless." [Bg. 10.19] [French] and then he begins to describe all of the different manifestations... [French, reads for some minutes]

Prabhupāda: Then at last it is said:

Yogeśvara: [French]

"But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe." [French]

Lady (2): [French]

Prabhupāda: [aside] bring a little fruit juice also.

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: She says, "so Kṛṣṇa is one more manifestation of God?"

Prabhupāda: Hm? Kṛṣṇa is God himself.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French]

Gues (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: Bhagavad-gītā is spoken by Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is describing himself and no one can be better authority on Kṛṣṇa than Kṛṣṇa. And therefore in Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa is described as the source of all these.

[French]

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: She says, "we are speaking about Hindu religion?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Yogeśvara: She says, "we are speaking of Hindu religion?"

Prabhupāda: We are speaking of God.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: Kṛṣṇa says that he is the source of everything. Then how can we be speaking of a sectarian religion.

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: Religion is a kind of faith, you can change but the conception of God you cannot change.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French] universal.

Prabhupāda: So, in the Hindu religion there is God. In the Christian religion there is God. In the Mohammedan religion there is God. So you can change the religion but you cannot change the God.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French, agrees]

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: Therefore we stick to God, not to the religion.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: Here in our movement you will find so many religious groups but they are concerned with Kṛṣṇa not with the religion.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Lady (2): [French]

Yogeśvara: She says, "religion is simply a way to get to the goal"

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: Religion is therefore simply a path.

Prabhupāda: Religion is a method according to time, circumstances. But if we do not approach Kṛṣṇa or God then it is useless.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

Dharma, everyone's religion. Even if it is performed very perfectly but if one does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness it is simply useless labour.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: In another place it is said = sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharma yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. [SB 1.2.6] that is first class religion which teaches the follower how to love God.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: If this religious system is performed without motive and without any hampering then one becomes fully satisfied.

Yogeśvara: [French]

Prabhupāda: [Aside] I think this much is all right... This much is all right.

Yogeśvara: [French] [end]