Morning Walk , Bombay , 1974-04-03
Prabhupāda: But if one cannot execute in such a way, he can take little fruits. That's all.
Dr. Patel: [laughs] Shall we? [break] ...Śṛnu me paramaṁ vacaḥ [Bg. 10.1].
Prabhupāda: Bhūya. He has already spoken so many important things; still, He wants to give information of further important part.
Dr. Patel: Yat te 'haṁ priyamāṇāya vakṣyāmi hita-kāmyayā [Bg. 10.1].
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Because these things are to be spoken to My dear devotees, priyamāṇāya, for the special benefit of the devotees, not for the ordinary man." Bhūya eva mahā-bāho [Bg. 10.1]. Mahā-bāho, this word is used, "mighty-armed," who is very strong in devotional service. Mahā-bāho. Bhūya eva mahā-bāho śṛṇu me paramaṁ vacaḥ." Mahā-bāho: because you are My great devotee, therefore I am speaking further, very important subject matter." Next line?
prabhavaṁ na maharṣayaḥ
aham ādir hi devānāṁ
maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes. Even the... Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ. Sura-gaṇāḥ means demigods, and what to speak of the rascals? How the rascals, simply by little educational qualification, can understand Kṛṣṇa?
Dr. Patel: Prabhavaṁ, the original, He said. Prabhavaṁ.
Prabhupāda: No. Prabhavaṁ means influence, influence. Prabhāva.
Dr. Patel: Aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Now, just try to understand this. Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ [Bg. 10.2]. [Hindi] ...demigods, big, big demigods, they cannot understand Him. How the rascals with little education can understand? This is the meaning. Na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ prabhavaṁ. How much influence... The maharṣayaḥ, big, big saintly ṛṣis also, they cannot understand. Aham ādir hi devānām. Devānām means the first devas: the Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. So Viṣṇu is He Himself. Even Lord Śiva, Lord Brahmā, they do not know. Devānām.
asamūḍhaḥ sa martyeṣu
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Yo mām ajam. Ajam. "Because Kṛṣṇa appears as born of Vasudeva and Devaki..." That is mūrkha. He appears. He appears, ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, sambhavāmi [Bg. 4.6]. That is His extraordinary power. [aside:] Aiye... But when one understands that He is aja, there is no birth of Kṛṣṇa... Aja, and...?
Dr. Patel: Maheśvaram.
Prabhupāda: Maheśvaram, mahā īśvaram. There are īśvaras, but parameśvara, or mahā-īśvara, that is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?
kṣamā satyaṁ damaḥ śamaḥ
sukhaṁ duḥkhaṁ bhavo 'bhāvo
bhayaṁ cābhayam eva ca
tapo dānaṁ yaśo 'yaśaḥ
bhavanti bhāvā bhūtānāṁ
matta eva pṛthag-vidhāḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes. All these good qualities, they are also coming from Him. Matta eva.
Dr. Patel: Good and bad, all qualities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no bad. There is nothing bad, but...
Dr. Patel: Bhava abhāva bhayaṁ ca abhayaṁ ca.
Prabhupāda: Bhayaṁ ca abhayaṁ ca, contradictory, yes.
Dr. Patel: Contradictory qualities.
Prabhupāda: That means all contradictions can be adjusted in Kṛṣṇa.
catvāro manavas tathā
mad-bhāvā mānasā jātā
yeṣāṁ loke imāḥ prajāḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes. "The whole prajā, population, they are born of Me."
mama yo vetti tattvataḥ
so 'vikalpena yogena
yujyate nātra saṁśayaḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes, tattvataḥ, to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ.
Dr. Patel: Rightly.
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the actually essence of Bhagavad-gītā. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo and mattaḥ sarvam. Sarvam means including Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Sarvam. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā. One who understands this. Bhajante. So just... The bhajana is for whom? Iti matvā. When one understands that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, even the original demigods, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, when one understands perfectly this thing, then his bhajana is perfect.
Dr. Patel: Budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Bhāva, bhāva. Bhāva means...
Chandobhai: All the emotions, feelings.
Prabhupāda: ...love, feelings, feelings of love, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so great."
Dr. Patel: Mac-cittā mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: And that is being described.
Dr. Patel: Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, kathayantaś ca māṁ nityaṁ tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca [Bg. 10.9].
Prabhupāda: Ramanti ca, yes. So instead of talking of Kṛṣṇa, they talk of politics, sociology, all nonsense. Simply waste of time.
Dr. Patel: Mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Mad-gata... One cannot talk of Kṛṣṇa unless he is kṛṣṇa-gata-prāṇāḥ. Kṛṣṇa-gata-prāṇāḥ. Just like your loveable objects, you cannot forget even for a moment, similarly, one who has developed real love for Kṛṣṇa, he cannot do without thinking of Kṛṣṇa, without talking of Kṛṣṇa, without acting for Kṛṣṇa. Mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ taṁ
yena mām upayānti te
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. So therefore one who has taken to this... Sometimes these Māyāvādīs rascals say that the bhakti is meant for the less intelligent class of men. So how he can be less intelligent? Kṛṣṇa says, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. So Kṛṣṇa personally gives you intelligence. So how He can be less intelligent?
Chandobhai: He gives intelligence.
Dr. Patel: That dadami buddhi-yogam.
Prabhupāda: Ah. And what kind of buddhi-yoga?
Chandobhai: "By which you can reach Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. By which he can go back to home, back to Godhead. That kind of buddhi-yoga.
Dr. Patel: That comes later on.
Prabhupāda: Not this buddhi-yoga, how to exploit the whole world and become Hiraṇyakaśipu.
aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
Prabhupāda: Teṣām. Who are those, teṣām? Not all.
Prabhupāda: Satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, teṣām. It is a special favor for them. Teṣām evānukampārtham. So if Kṛṣṇa dissipates ignorance from the heart of a person, how he can be less intelligent? If somebody is guided by the most perfect intellect..., intellectual, then how he can be less intelligent? So these Māyāvādīs' accusation that bhakti is meant for the less intelligent class and jñāna is meant for higher class of men, so this accusation is refuted, that "No, don't think that the devotees are less intelligent, because I am guiding them."
Dr. Patel: Nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho, aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ. Tamaḥ nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho.
Prabhupāda: Tamaḥ. No more ignorance, darkness. So how a devotee can be in darkness, in ignorance? This is refuted.
Dr. Patel: Now arjuna uvāca.
paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma
pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān
puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam
ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṇa is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṇa personally. So his experience is first hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa is like this, Kṛṣṇa is like that"? If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said, "You are..., you are the Supreme Person, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal..." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.
Dr. Patel: That same line. Puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.
Prabhupāda: Ādi. Yes. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādi-puruṣam, He is the original person. Person. He is not imperson. Puruṣam is not imperson. Brahman is imperson, but Para-brahman is not imperson. So that is Kṛṣṇa. So therefore it is called paraḥ, param. Brahman realization. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "You inquire about Brahman."
Chandobhai: All-pervading, vibhum.
Prabhupāda: Vibhum, yes, all-pervading. Just like the same example = the sun. The sun is all-pervading by sunshine, but still, sunshine is not important as the sun globe. This is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa... Let us understand one line. Para-brahman. Brahman, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. But they are Para-brahman. Īśvara, everyone is īśvara. That's all right. But not everyone Parameṣvara.
Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1].
Dr. Patel: Everyone is puruṣa, but not puruṣottama.
Prabhupāda: So paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12]. Dhāma. Dhāma means resting place. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni [Bg. 9.4]. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma, and pavitram. Pavitra means you are not contaminated by these material modes. Pavitraṁ paramam, Supreme pavitra. Now the question is that if Kṛṣṇa is paraṁ pavitra... Now sometimes they criticize that "Kṛṣṇa danced with the other girls. So how He can be contaminated?"
Dr. Patel: Non-contaminated.
Prabhupāda: Not contaminated. Apāpa-vidham. As it is said, apāpa vidham aśnaviram. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aśnaviram means not material body. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa. Aśnaviram apāpa-vidham.
Chandobhai: Kavir manīṣiḥ paribhuḥ svayambhūḥ...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is being explained, yes. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān [Bg. 10.12].
Dr. Patel: Puruṣaṁ śaśvataṁ divyam ādi-devam ajaṁ vibhum.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Divyam. Divyam means spiritual. Tapo divyam. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. That is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva = "My dear boys, you engage yourself in tapasya." Now, what kind of tapasya? Tapo divyam: for spiritual realization. Now, materialists, there are big, big scientists, big, big archeologists and so on, so on, they are also undergoing tapo. Without tapasya, nobody can become eminent. So they are also undergoing tapasya. Suppose one who has manufactured this atomic bomb. This is also tapasya. But not this kind of tapasya. Tapo divyam, for understanding Kṛṣṇa. To understand Kṛṣṇa, that tapasya required.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go further?
devarṣir nāradas tathā
asito devalo vyāsaḥ
svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me
Prabhupāda: Now, people may say that "Arjuna was Kṛṣṇa's friend, so he is eulogizing Kṛṣṇa like anything." Therefore he is giving evidence that āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarva: "It is not my sentiment that I am accepting You as such and such. But..." [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. [break] He is giving evidence. This is required. This is required. If you say something, it must be supported by authorities. Not that my whimsically I say something like daridra nārāyaṇa.
Dr. Patel: Again you say, daridra-nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] Yes. Unauthorized statement. This will not be accepted. So āhus tvām ṛṣayaḥ sarve.
devarṣir nāradas tathā
asito devalo vyāsaḥ
svayaṁ caiva bravīṣi me
Prabhupāda: Vyāsa. Ultimately Vyāsa.
Dr. Patel: "Even You say so." Svayam eva.
Prabhupāda: "And You also say."
Dr. Patel: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava, na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ... [Bg. 10.14].
Prabhupāda: Now, this is understanding of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Whatever You say, I accept as truth." Not that "This portion..." Interpretation = "This portion I don't like. This portion is nice." No. Everything is nice. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, everything is correct. That is understanding.
yan māṁ vadasi keśava
na hi te bhagavān vyaktiṁ
vidur devā na dānavāḥ
Dr. Patel: Vyaktim means?
Prabhupāda: Vyaktim means His personality, personality, vyaktim.
Dr. Patel: "Nobody knows Your personality in truth."
Prabhupāda: So foolish people cannot understand what is the Personality of Kṛṣṇa. Yes.
vettha tvaṁ puruṣottama
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Therefore to understand You is to take information from You, not from others." What Kṛṣṇa says...
Dr. Patel: Svayam evātmanātmānam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you know yourself, what you are. Nobody knows. Therefore to understand Kṛṣṇa, or God, is to accept whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā. That is real understanding.
Dr. Patel: Bhūta-bhāvana bhūteṣa deva-deva jagat-pate.
Dr. Patel: Vaktum arhasy aśeṣeṇa divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ [Bg. 10.16].
Prabhupāda: Deva-deva. "There are many demigods, but You are also..."
Dr. Patel: Deva of the devas.
Prabhupāda: Ah. "You are the supreme of all of them, deva-deva. You are worshiped by the devas."
divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ
yābhir vibhūtibhir lokān
imāṁs tvaṁ vyāpya tiṣṭhasi
Prabhupāda: Now, this is to be understood, "How You are all-pervading by Your influence, by Your power." That means "You are always there." "You" person is there. Just like a big man, big businessman, is sitting in his room, but he is all-pervading, all-pervading.
Dr. Patel: But he must have got special powers deputed to certain people. And these are that vibhūtis.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is vibhūti. That does not mean... Māyāvādī philosophy is = "Because He has spread everywhere, therefore He is imperson." He remains person, without any change, avyaya. But still, He is spread. That he is asking, that "How I shall understand You, that You are spread everywhere?" Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ [Bs. 5.37]. That is... So we have to understand from Kṛṣṇa how He is all-pervading, not that mental speculation. Just like if you take a thing and distribute all over, the original thing is lost. Not like that. Original Kṛṣṇa is there.
Dr. Patel: Pūrṇam idam [Īśopaniṣad, Invocation].
tvāṁ sadā paricintayan
keṣu keṣu ca bhāveṣu
cintyo 'si bhagavan mayā
[reads next verse while Śrīla Prabhupāda talks]
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. This is intelligence. How Kṛṣṇa is all-pervading, you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa and think like that. That is meditation. That is meditation, how Kṛṣṇa is all-per... Just like in the beginning also, Kṛṣṇa said, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya [Bg. 7.8]. So similarly, another explanation is going to be set up here.
Dr. Patel: Now,
hanta te kathayiṣyāmi
divyā hy ātma-vibhūtayaḥ
nāsty anto vistarasya me
Prabhupāda: Yes. So "If I go on speaking, there is no end. But some of the chief principles by which I am all-pervading, I shall speak to you."
Dr. Patel: And the first important:
aham ādiś ca madhyaṁ ca
bhūtānām anta eva ca
Prabhupāda: Yes, ady anta, this creation. Before this creation, Kṛṣṇa was there. Kṛṣṇa was there. When the creation is going on, it is maintained by Kṛṣṇa, and when it is dissolved, then it enters into Kṛṣṇa. Prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikam.
Dr. Patel: Aham ātmā guḍākeśa sarva-bhūtāśaya-sthitaḥ.
Prabhupāda: "And I am ātmā, Guḍākeśa. I am ātmā. Therefore, because My part and parcel is spreading, so that part and parcel, particle, that is the basic principle of everything." Just like this body. This body is based on that part and particle, soul. Because the soul was there, the body has developed.
Dr. Patel: Otherwise body would perish. It does rot.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The body develops so long the ātmā is there. So similarly, because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore whatever manifestation you see, that is due to Kṛṣṇa. Now here the latest theory of the rascals, that life has come from matter, is refuted.
Dr. Patel: That is Cārvāka's theory, this Karl Marx, the Communists. That is dialectical materialism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now He says aham. Aham is living entity. So living entity is the origin of everything.
jyotiṣāṁ ravir aṁśumān
marīcir marutām asmi
nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, this is also another nice thing, that the modern astronomers, they say that all these stars are sun. Sun. Do they not?
Dr. Patel: Yes. Just like suns.
Prabhupāda: But just like Kṛṣṇa says, "They are just like moon." Just see. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśi. So śaśi means the moon. Moon is like one of the stars. So if you say the stars are sūrya, then there is contradiction. How the moon and the sun can be equal? But actually, that is not. According to our Vedic astronomy, there is one sun only in one universe, although there are millions of universes. We cannot count. So there are millions of suns. That is another thing. But within the universe there is only one sun, and by the brilliance of sunshine, all these stars and moons are glittering. Just like moon shining, being reflected by the sun, similarly, all the stars they are glittering, being reflected by the sun, not that all of them are different suns. This theory is refuted.
devānām asmi vāsavaḥ
indriyāṇāṁ manaś cāsmi
bhūtānām asmi cetanā
Prabhupāda: The Sāma Vedas mean the realization of God by singing, by music. That is Sāma Veda.
Dr. Patel: By music. "I am the soul of the music."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore hari-kīrtana. Hari-kīrtana is Sāma Veda, glorifying the Supreme. That is stated in some other place.
Dr. Patel: "I am Indra of the devas."
Prabhupāda: Yam brahma-varunendra-rudraḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair vedaiḥ sanga-pada-kramopa... [SB 12.13.1]
Dr. Patel: Kramopanisadair gayanti yam samagaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Gayanti. So gayanti, chanting, is following the Sāma Veda, and Sāma Veda, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am especially Sāma Veda."
Dr. Patel: Devānām asmi vāsavaḥ, indriyāṇāṁ manaś cāsmi bhūtānām asmi cetanā. "I am the..." Cetanā means...? Life, life and [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Life. Knowledge, knowledge.
vasūnāṁ pāvakaś cāsmi
meruḥ śikhariṇām aham
viddhi pārtha bṛhaspatim
senānīnām ahaṁ skandaḥ
sarasām asmi sāgaraḥ
Prabhupāda: Skanda means Kārtikeya.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Kārtikeya. Maharṣīṇāṁ bhṛgur ahaṁ girām asmy ekam akṣaram [Bg. 10.25]. "I am oṁ."
Dr. Patel: Yajñānāṁ japa-yajño 'smi. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtanaiḥ prayair yajanti hi sumedhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. This is there. Japa-yajño, Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is the best-class...
devarṣīṇāṁ ca nāradaḥ
siddhānāṁ kapilo muniḥ
Prabhupāda: Now, the Kapila Muni. Who is that Kapila Muni?
Dr. Patel: That Devahūti's son.
Prabhupāda: Son, yes.
viddhi mām amṛtodbhavam
narāṇāṁ ca narādhipam
Naradhipam means He represents the God.
Prabhupāda: King, king, king. Yes.
Dr. Patel: King. But not these kings, [Hindi].
Prabhupāda: But they are not kings. They are mlecchas. They are not kings. Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnā mlecchā rājendra-rūpinaḥ. They have assumed the post of king, but otherwise they are mlecchas, asaṁskṛtāḥ. There is no saṁskāra, and kriyā-hīnā, they do not perform the Vedic rituals. So they are all rascals. So how we can be happy?
dhenūnām asmi kāmadhuk
prajanaś cāsmi kandarpaḥ
sarpāṇām asmi vāsukiḥ
Prajanaś cāsmi kandarpaḥ. "I am the Kandarpa."
Dr. Patel: Reproduce, produces.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Cupid.
varuṇo yādasām aham
pitṝṇām aryamā cāsmi
yamaḥ saṁyamatām aham
kālaḥ kalayatām aham
mṛgāṇāṁ ca mṛgendro 'haṁ
vainateyaś ca pakṣiṇām
rāmaḥ śastra-bhṛtām aham
jhaṣāṇāṁ makaraś cāsmi
srotasām asmi jāhnavī
Prabhupāda: Jhaṣāṇām, "Of all the aquatics, I am the makara."
Dr. Patel: Sargāṇām ādir antaś ca madhyaṁ caivāham arjuna [Bg. 10.32]. That means "I am the very time." Sargāṇām ādir antaś ca madhyaṁ caivāham arjuna.
Prabhupāda: Yes, time, kāla, kāla, creation.
Dr. Patel: Ahyātma-vidyā vidyānāṁ vādaḥ pravadatām aham.
Prabhupāda: Pravadatām aham.
dvandvaḥ sāmāsikasya ca
aham evākṣayaḥ kālo
udbhavaś ca bhaviṣyatām
kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṇām
smṛtir medhā dhṛtiḥ kṣamā
Please comment on this = kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṇām smṛtir medhā dhṛtiḥ kṣamā.
Prabhupāda: The woman's voice is very attractive. Because people engage woman for singing. Their voice is natural attractive. "So that attractive voice, I am."
Dr. Patel: "I am." Kīrtiḥ śrīr vāk ca nārīṇām, smṛtir medhā and dhṛtiḥ and kṣamā. These are the feminine qualities. "There I am. I am kṣamā, I am dhṛti, I am medhā, I am smṛti and I am the melodious sound of women. I am kīrti and I am śrī."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
gāyatrī chandasām aham
māsānāṁ mārga-śīrṣo 'ham
tejas tejasvinām aham
jayo 'smi vyavasāyo 'smi
sattvaṁ sattvavatām aham
Prabhupāda: Ah. [laughs]
Dr. Patel: "I am you."
Prabhupāda: Pāṇḍavānāṁ dhanañjayaḥ.
Dr. Patel: That means "I am you."
Dr. Patel: Munīnām apy ahaṁ vyāsaḥ kavīnām uśanā kaviḥ.
Prabhupāda: Not "I am you." That is Māyāvāda. Dhanañjaya especially, not the rascals.
Dr. Patel: "You" means He is talking with whom? Dhanañjaya.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, Dhanañjaya. You can take, Dhanañjaya. Not that general people.
Dr. Patel: But that is what He says, that "I am you." Kṛṣṇa says...
Prabhupāda: Not you; Dhanañjaya. "You" means... Why you are changing the word? No, no, it is said, Dhanañjaya. You say Dhanañjaya.
Dr. Patel: Pārtha, Dhanañjaya, He is...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And after...
Dr. Patel: But He is talking with Dhanañjaya.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You cannot make it an impersonal. As soon as you say Dhanañjaya, He is person.
Dr. Patel: Oh, yes, that way. That way you are right. Vṛṣṇīnāṁ vāsudevo 'smi. That means He is the father of even Himself.
munīnām apy ahaṁ vyāsaḥ
kavīnām uśanā kaviḥ
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vyāsadeva is incarnation of God.
nītir asmi jigīṣatām
maunaṁ caivāsmi guhyānāṁ
jñānaṁ jñānavatām aham
Prabhupāda: Nītir, by argument, by logic, when one becomes victorious, that victory is Kṛṣṇa, nītī. Without Kṛṣṇa...
Chandobhai: It is God's victory, not his.
Dr. Patel: Yac cāpi sarva-bhūtānāṁ bījaṁ tad aham arjuna. "There is... Seed in everything is I."
bījaṁ tad aham arjuna
na tad asti vinā yat syān
mayā bhūtaṁ carācaram
Nothing that moves and not moves is without being.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because everything is His energy.
eṣa tūddeśataḥ prokto
vibhūter vistaro mayā
śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā
tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ
"Whatever glorious thing you see, it is Mine."
Prabhupāda: "That is due to My influence". [break]
Dr. Patel: Aham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42].
Prabhupāda: This is only ekāṁśa vibhūti. All this described, this is only one part. The three parts---in the spiritual world. This is all description of the material world. Now, this is only one part manifestation, and the three-part manifestation---in the spiritual sky.
Chandobhai: Tri-pāda... [Hindi]
Dr. Patel: Tri-pāda. [break] This thing. Ācchā. Today is Ekādaśī.
Dr. Patel: Ācchā.
yat tvayoktaṁ vacas tena
moho 'yaṁ vigato mama
Prabhupāda: Moha, moho 'yam... "What You were, now I understand."
Dr. Patel: "Now I have lost it."
Prabhupāda: "I was thinking that You are ordinary friend, but now moha, that moha is gone. I understand You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead."
Dr. Patel: Yes.
śrutau vistaraśo mayā
māhātmyam api cāvyayam
tvam ātmānaṁ parameśvara
draṣṭum icchāmi te rūpam
Now, he is creating a trouble for Kṛṣṇa. He is creating trouble for Him.
Prabhupāda: No, why trouble? Kṛṣṇa has no trouble.
Dr. Patel: For himself. Arjuna is creating trouble for himself.
Prabhupāda: No, he is creating trouble for himself because the rascals will represent that "I am incarnation of God." Therefore Arjuna is asking Him, "Now show me Your virāṭa-rūpa." So these rascals, bewildered by these so-called Gods, they should ask, "Show me your virāṭa-rūpa. Then I shall accept you." That is the process. Not that "I am incarnation of God." How you become incarnation? Just lift one hill. Huh? Or show me virāṭa-rūpa. Or show me that you have sixteen thousand wives and you are maintaining them in sixteen thousand palaces. Then you call yourself that "I am incarnation of Kṛṣṇa." Otherwise, you rascal, I cannot believe you. For them. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa... He knows what is Kṛṣṇa, but because in future some rascal will come and will say that "I am incarnation of God," therefore it is a warning that before accepting one rascal as incarnation, you ask him to show virāṭa-rūpa.
mayā draṣṭum iti prabho
yogeśvara tato me tvaṁ
Prabhupāda: Yes. So because Arjuna was not accustomed to this impersonal theory...
Dr. Patel: Even the pastime, rūpa vi...
Prabhupāda: Yes. But he wanted to see the virāṭa-rūpa. Therefore he said, "If you think that I shall be able to see, then You can give me."
Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?
Dr. Patel: Śrī bhagavān uvāca, paśya me pārtha rūpāṇi śataśo 'tha... [Bg. 11.5]
Prabhupāda: So it was not difficult for Him. Immediately He showed him. That is Kṛṣṇa. Not that "I shall show you some day privately."
śataśo 'tha sahasraśaḥ
aśvinau marutas tathā
Prabhupāda: Just like Mother Yaśodā saw within the mouth of Kṛṣṇa the whole universe.
Dr. Patel: The whole universe.
mama dehe guḍākeśa
yac cānyad draṣṭum icchasi
divyaṁ dadāmi te cakṣuḥ
paśya me yogam aiśvaram
Prabhupāda: Ah. "Because you are not accustomed to see this virāṭa form, therefore I give you special vision to see it."
paramaṁ rūpam aiśvaram
Prabhupāda: So this virāṭa-rūpa is subordinate. Darśayāmāsa hari. Hari is the Supreme. And the virāṭa-rūpa is a feature, not that virāṭa-rūpa is original.
Dr. Patel: One of the features of His multiple features.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Virāṭa-rūpa. Not that the... Māyāvādīs take the virāṭa-rūpa is the origin, and this rūpa, Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Therefore they are called Māyāvādīs. But actually, Hari manifested or exhibited...
Dr. Patel: One of his multiple...
Prabhupāda: Multiple features.
bhaved yugapad utthitā
yadi bhāḥ sadṛśī sā syād
bhāsas tasya mahātmanaḥ
He had thousands and millions of features.
śarīre pāṇḍavas tadā
praṇamya śirasā devaṁ
Now Arjuna said. Shall I read further?
Dr. Patel: Arjuna uvāca. These boys understand this, all of them? All of them understand?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I will explain.
Chandobhai: They can hear.
Dr. Patel: Now Arjuna says, paśyāmi devāṁs tava deva dehe sarvāṁs tathā bhūta-viśeṣa... [Bg. 11.15]
Prabhupāda: Devāṁs, devāṁs. Tava deva dehe means "Devas, the demigods, they are part and parcel of Your virāṭa-rupa." They are not independent. Just like this finger is part of my this whole body, similarly, all these devas, these demigods... That is explained previously = ye 'py anya-devatā bhaktā yajante śraddhayānvitāḥ, te 'pi mām eva [Bg. 9.23]. If you give something to my finger, that is to be given to my body. But that is avidhi-pūrvakam. The thing's to be given to the mouth, not in the hand. But their logic is, because everything is the same, why not here? That is Māyāvāda. Yes.
sarvāṁs tathā bhūta-viśeṣa-saṅghān
brahmāṇam īśaṁ kamalāsana-stham
ṛṣīṁś ca sarvān uragāṁś ca divyān
Prabhupāda: Yes, brahmā rāmeśvaram. Rāmeśvara means Viṣṇu. Rāma īśvara; and Brahmā, Lord Brahmā, and...
Dr. Patel: Kamalāsana-stham ṛṣīṁṣ sarvān urugāṁṣ ca divyān. All wonderful things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa.
paśyāmi tvāṁ sarvato 'nanta-rūpam
nāntaṁ na madhyaṁ na punas tavādiṁ
paśyāmi viśveśvara viśva-rūpa
tejo-rāśiṁ sarvato dīptimantam
Prabhupāda: Now even in His virāṭa-rūpa, He is person, kirīṭina. He has got helmet, kirīṭina. Then?
tvam asya viśvasya paraṁ nidhānam
tvam avyayaḥ śāśvata-dharma-goptā
sanātanas tvaṁ puruṣo mato me
He is now frightened after seeing these things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Must be frightened. Now, suppose all of a sudden if you see a very big person, you will not be frightened? Because you are not accustomed to see that.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Anādi-madhyāntam ananta-vīryam ananta-bāhuṁ śaśi-sūrya-netram paśyāmi tvāṁ dīpta-hutāśa-vaktraṁ... [Bg. 11.19]
Prabhupāda: Now here is one important thing = śaśi-sūrya-netram. The śaśi, the moon, and the sun are the two eyes of God. Now in Brahma-saṁhitā it is also confirmed, yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇām [Bs. 5.52]. So in the Upaniṣads it is said, "When God sees, then you can see." So this... When the sunrise is there, that means when God sees, you can see. In the darkness you cannot see. And still, you are proud of your eyes. Yes. Without God seeing, you cannot see. And still, these rascals are proud of their eyes = "I can... Can you show me?" How you can see? First of all you have to see through the Supreme.
Dr. Patel: Sva-tejasā viśvam idaṁ tapantam [Bg. 11.19].
Prabhupāda: And another significance is that you cannot hide yourself from the seeing of the Supreme. You cannot make anything hiding. Because even in the womb there is sunshine, sunlight. So He is seeing there. Apart from being the Paramātmā, from materially also, His eyes are always there. So you cannot do anything hiding. That is not possible.
vyāptaṁ tvayaikena diśaś ca sarvāḥ
dṛṣṭvādbhutaṁ rūpam ugraṁ tavedaṁ
loka-trayaṁ pravyathitaṁ mahātman
All are frightened.
kecid bhītāḥ prāñjalayo gṛṇanti
svastīty uktvā maharṣi-siddha-saṅghāḥ
stuvanti tvāṁ stutibhiḥ puṣkalābhiḥ
viśve 'śvinau marutaś coṣmapāś ca
Prabhupāda: So everyone is worshiping Him.
vīkṣante tvāṁ vismitāś caiva sarve
Prabhupāda: They do not understand. If you go on simply reading...
Dr. Patel: But you say read, so I read. You order me, I stop.
Dr. Patel: Shall I read again?
Prabhupāda: What is that line?
Dr. Patel: There were so many lines. I will again. Aneka divya... Divi-sūrya-sahasrasya bhaved yugapad utthitā...
Prabhupāda: Ah, this is the comparison now, that divi, "In the sky, if there were thousands of suns at a time, then the brilliance of the virāṭa-rūpa could be understood." This is an example.
Dr. Patel: He saw everyone in Him.
bhaved yugapad utthitā
yadi bhāḥ sadṛṣī sā syād
bhāsas tasya mahātmanaḥ
Tatraikasthaṁ jagat kṛtsnaṁ. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...in Him. Then he got...
Dr. Patel: Then he got frightened, and then he... [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: The varieties, varieties. The varieties he is seeing. That is the vision of the Vaiṣṇava. The Vaiṣṇavas also know that everything is one, but he sees the variety.
Dr. Patel: I will read again from this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] [end]