Morning Walk , Bombay , 1974-02-19
Prabhupāda: ...impersonalist or personalist. Impersonalist or personalist.
Mr. Sar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Who is better?
Mr. Sar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is explained, that personalists are better posted than the impersonalists. Gatir duḥk..., avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ dehavadbhir avāpyate [Bg. 12.5].
Mr. Sar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They simply suffer, that's all. It is already explained. The impersonalists, they cannot concentrate their mind upon the Supreme, and simply hodgepodge. Therefore they suffer.
Mr. Sar: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs, they suffer only. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate [SB 10.14.4]. In Bhāgavata it is explained, "Their gain is only suffering." That's all.
Mr. Sar: That's why they...
Prabhupāda: Huh? Bhaktim udasya te vibho kliśyanti ye kevala-bodha-labdhaye [SB 10.14.4]. Kevala-bodha-labdhaye.
Mr. Sar: Ah, kevala-bodha.
Prabhupāda: Simply trying to know, know, know.
Mr. Sar: Know.
Prabhupāda: You see? So, teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate: "Their gain is simply their trying for, that labor." Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām: "It is exactly like one is beating the husk."
Mr. Sar: Yes, and not getting that thing.
Prabhupāda: There is no rice...
Mr. Sar: No rice even.
Prabhupāda: Simply "gad-gad-gad-gad-gad-gad."
Mr. Sar: "Gad-gad-gad-gad-gad-gad-gad."
Prabhupāda: That's all. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. So these impersonalists, they are trying to approach the Absolute Truth, but the method is not very good.
Mr. Sar: [mumbles verse] ...avyaktam.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. No, Kṛṣṇa says...
Mr. Sar: ...teṣāṁ paryupa...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55].
Mr. Sar: Ah. Yāvān yaś cāsmi...
Prabhupāda: He never says that "By mental speculation, one can understand." He never says.
Mr. Sar: He's beyond the reach of the mind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu... [Hindi]
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin vetti māṁ tattvataḥ
So to know God, it is not very easy job. And the Vedas also, it is stated, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. So this process is not good.
Mr. Sar: Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tam eva vivṛṇute tanūṁ svām.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes. Tanu. Tanu means form. Tanu means form.
Mr. Sar: That is, He shows His grace, isn't it? That means, isn't it, whom He selects, whom the Lord selects?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says that "This My form is not understood by common men."
Mr. Sar: Divyaṁ dadāmi te cakṣuḥ [Bg. 11.8].
Dr. Patel: Mama māyā duratyayā, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te [Bg. 7.14].
Prabhupāda: But actually, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. So gradual process, go to the Absolute Truth---Brahman, Paramātmā, and last is Bhagavān. The Bhagavān realization is the real realization, not Brahman, not... This is partial. [looking at something on beach] It is already dead.
Dr. Patel: No, it may be even living.
Prabhupāda: Why even it is dead while it is ferocious?
Mr. Sar: Rajju-sarpa-nyāya, huh? That is bhrānti-māyā.
Prabhupāda: No, no. There are certain things which are simply by form is dangerous. [greets passersby:] Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Here is another.
Prabhupāda: This is water snake? [Indian men comment on snake] They have no poison.
Dr. Patel: Evaṁ satata-yuktā ye bhaktās tvāṁ paryupāsate, ye cāpy akṣaram avyaktam... [Bg. 12.1] [break]
Prabhupāda: Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ [Bg. 7.1]. This is the stress. Mayy āsakta: "Here I am present. Why you should contemplate on imperson?" But the foolish people will not understand this. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante [Bg. 7.15]. He is canvassing, "Here I am," but they will not surrender. They are searching out God somewhere else. "Here I am." "No, no, no. You are not." Mūḍha.
Mr. Sar: Mūḍhas, yes.
Dr. Patel: Ye tu akṣaram anirdeśyam...
Mr. Sar: ...avyaktaṁ paryupāsate [Bg. 12.3]. [laughing]
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha, sab mūḍha.
Dr. Patel: They are all mūḍhas. Let us complete it now. Kūṭastham acalaṁ dhruvam. [break]
Prabhupāda: But where is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ [Bg. 5.25]? He is engaged in "family hite ratāḥ."
Dr. Patel: If he is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ...
Prabhupāda: Then that is another thing. That is another thing. But one who is "family hite ratāḥ," "country hite ratāḥ," "community hite ratāḥ," how he can do?
Dr. Patel: So in this Bhagavān has said, sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ.
Prabhupāda: But sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Now, these people, they are hite ratāḥ of limited circle, that's all.
Mr. Sar: Oh. That is why their... This path is not good for mankind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, one must accept sannyāsa at a certain stage.
avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ
Dr. Patel: Ye tu sarvāṇi karmāṇi mayi sannyāsya mat-parāḥ [Bg. 12.6]. Now, you have all your...
Prabhupāda: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ [Bg. 5.25], that, it is very difficult. Because even Mahatma Gandhi, such a great person, he said, "Englishman, you go away." Just see. Who can be better than Mahatma Gandhi?
Dr. Patel: And he must have life like Bharata.
Dr. Patel: Jaḍa Bharata.
Prabhupāda: Is there possibility? He was so sacrificeful, but still, he was not sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ [Bg. 5.25]. Whole struggle was "Englishman, you get out."
Dr. Patel: Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ will be like Jaḍa Bharata.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ means who is devotee of Kṛṣṇa. He is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ.
Dr. Patel: Because Kṛṣṇa's representative.
Prabhupāda: He is the root. Aham ādir hi devānām [Bg. 10.2]. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg. 10.8]. The root, if you water the root, then sarva-bhūta hite ratāḥ, the water will go to the branches, to the twigs, to the leaves, to the flowers. He is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ [Bg. 5.25]. They do not know the way how to become sarva-bhūta-hite. And because... Just see the example. I am not becoming proud, but because I have got little taste for it, therefore I am preaching all over the world. I don't say I am perfect. I have got little taste of kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So I have no distinction that "This is Indian. This is American. This is African." Everyone, I am giving this hari-nāma. This is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ, no distinction. We are trying to give protection to the cows, to the animals, to the trees. This is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Unless one is... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad... [SB 5.18.12] If one is not devoted to Kṛṣṇa, he cannot become sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām [Bg. 12.5]. Simply they will suffer, that's all.
Mr. Sar: Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta-cetasām avyakta...
Prabhupāda: Avyakta. This avyakta... They do not find where is the point where sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Just like one who knows the electric button, he push. He does not know that. Mūḍha.
Dr. Patel: You have to work the main switch to electrify the...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. You must know how to do it.
Dr. Patel and Mr. Sar:
mayi sannyasya mat-parāḥ
māṁ dhyāyanta upāsate
bhavāmi na cirāt pārtha
Prabhupāda: ...early in the morning have maṅgala-ārātrika, then prasāda. Now, walk, also talking. We are not wasting time. We are not wasting time. Even if you say, "Why you are walking?" then we are not walking for nothing. We are talking. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. Satataṁ kīrtayantaḥ. So walking, talking.
Dr. Patel: Mat-karmabhiḥ karmāṇi siddhim... [break]
Prabhupāda: Sarva-karma-tyāga [Cc. Madhya 22.60]. Where is Girirāja? These boys collecting not less than thirty thousand per month, but not a single farthing for him. This is sarva-karma-phala. Is there any man, businessman?
Mr. Sar: Yes, yes. He stays in utter poverty.
Dr. Patel: Sarva-karma-phala-tyāgam eva [Cc. Madhya 22.60].
Prabhupāda: He does not care for his body even.
Mr. Sar: Yes, he does not care.
Prabhupāda: I forced him to go to USA and get...
Dr. Patel: I invited him to stay in my house, but he said that he won't come.
Prabhupāda: No, no, he is not interested for his person.
Dr. Patel: We have invite him. When he is ill, he may stay with me. We may have a little sat-saṅga.
Prabhupāda: But he is sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Why he should be concentrated one?
Mr. Sar: Adveṣṭā sarva-bhūtānām [Bg. 12.13].
Prabhupāda: Ah, adveṣṭā. It is not, "I am Hindu. Why shall I preach amongst the Christian?" The dveṣṭā.
Dr. Patel: Adveṣṭā sarva-bhūtānām.
Prabhupāda: But one has to become adveṣṭā. This is dveṣṭā.
Dr. Patel: Maitraḥ karuṇa eva ca, nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ sama-duḥkha-sukhaḥ kṣamī [Bg. 12.13].
Prabhupāda: Now, some of these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs accuse me that "Bhaktivedanta Swami is spoiling our Hindu religion." Dveṣṭā. They do not like Christians, do not like Muhammadans. But I am accepting Muhammadans, Christian, any damn rascal = "Come on. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Mr. Sar: And be a brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: This is adveṣṭā. [break] ...envious of Christian.
Dr. Patel: Nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ sama-duḥkha-sukhaḥ... [Bg. 12.13]
Prabhupāda: Why you should be?
Dr. Patel: ...santuṣṭaḥ satataṁ yogī yatātmā dṛḍha-niścayaḥ, mayy-arpita-mano-buddhir [Bg. 8.7].
Prabhupāda: Yes. [laughs]
Mr. Sar: Ye... [Hindi]
Prabhupāda: We cannot change. Therefore yesterday I said, "Why shall I go to...?"
Dr. Patel and Mr. Sar: Yasmān nodvijate loko lokān nodvijate ca yaḥ, harṣāmarṣa-bhayodvegair [Bg. 12.15].
Dr. Patel: You are firing us. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: For your good. For your good. Even if I fire you, for your good.
Dr. Patel: [laughing] I was ready to come to this point. That is why I asked them to arrange for this meeting. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...father fires son, it is not envious. Adveṣṭā, he... That is adveṣṭā.
Dr. Patel: Anapekṣaḥ śucir dakṣa [Bg. 12.16].
Prabhupāda: Anapekṣaḥ, just see. When I went to Europe, America, I went with forty rupees. The Sumati Morarji gave me a ticket, and I had only forty rupees. That forty rupees could not be spent there. Then, when I was getting down, I asked the captain, "Captain Pandia," that "I have not a single dollar with me. So you purchase one set of my books." "So what is... Swami, what is your price?" "Sixteen dollar." He paid me twenty dollars. With that twenty dollars, I dropped.
Mr. Sar: This is anapekṣaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Anapekṣaḥ śucir dakṣa.
Prabhupāda: Now I think we have got money.
Dr. Patel: Two million dollars.
Prabhupāda: [laughs] So that is not a problem. That is not a problem because I knew that Kṛṣṇa is there.
yo mad-bhaktaḥ sa me priyaḥ
Yo na... [break]
Prabhupāda: In the beginning...[break]
Dr. Patel: ...na kāṅkṣati na..., na kāṅkṣati na śocati, śubhāśubha-parityāgī yo mad-bhaktaḥ sa me priyaḥ [Bg. 12.17].
Prabhupāda: Yes, śubhāśubha. When I was in Boston, I was thinking that "I have come here. How they will receive me? As soon as I'll say that 'No meat-eating, no illicit sex, and no gambling and no intoxication,' immediately they will say, 'Please go home. Don't preach here.' All right." So for one year there was no success, you see? And I was going to the shipping company = "When your next ship is coming to return back?" So the manager was telling, "Swāmījī, you are always inquiring, but you never go." [all laugh] I said, "Yes, when I am too much frustrated, I come to here to ask you. Then again I go back = 'Let me see two months more.' " It was going like that. Nobody was there with me.
santuṣṭo yena kenacit
bhaktimān me priyo naraḥ
Prabhupāda: [laughing] Aniketaḥ. Automatically aniketaḥ. There was no place, no place to live. No money.
Dr. Patel: This is the culmination of a sannyāsī.
Mr. Sar: One who has no place, he lives everywhere.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means aniketaḥ. Now we have got hundred temples. We have got hundred temples. But Kṛṣṇa does not allow me to stay eight days, more than.
Dr. Patel: But how long you going to stay here? You have promised me to stay long, eh?
Prabhupāda: But if Kṛṣṇa allows...
Dr. Patel: I will always pray to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: I am dependent on Kṛṣṇa. If He allows. [aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Because we can't come to America to keep your company.
Prabhupāda: Now, here is a Pacific Ocean. [break] Sometimes I think, "When I was simply depending on Kṛṣṇa, those days... Now I have to depend on so many disciples." [laughter]
Dr. Patel: Through Kṛṣṇa the disciples are the sannyāsīs.
Prabhupāda: [laughing] They are good disciples. They are bringing everything; I am simply ordering. Still, I think, "That was better, to depend on..."
Dr. Patel: What is Māyāvāda, Māyāvāda? This, we do not understand anything. Māyā is a fact because it is the power of God, and you have got to work with it. So we are all of us are vādīs. Don't talk all these thing now. Swāmījī, I am going to fire him.
Prabhupāda: No, why you have become angry?
Dr. Patel: No, I don't become angry. I become violent, not angry.
Mr. Sar: Māyāvādī's name is speaker.
Prabhupāda: That means he is Māyāvādī.
Dr. Patel: Māyā is a fact of life.
Prabhupāda: He is becoming angry; that means he is Māyāvāda.
Dr. Patel: [laughing] Māyā is a fact of life you can... [end]