Room Conversation , Vṛndāvana , 1974-02-14

Prabhupāda: ...even those who are farmers [indistinct]. In India also. As soon as they get some education, they don't want to be a farmer.

Gurudāsa: They're going to the cities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will be satisfied to become a petty clerk and get some very little income. They will be satisfied. They don't want to be... Śūdra. That is the real śūdra. They are satisfied simply by eating, that's all. No ambition.

Gurudāsa: So somehow or other we have to attract some śūdras to our movement if we want to work self-sufficiently.

Prabhupāda: So for the time being, what is to be done? We shall take it, then we shall see, find out śūdra, offer better price. But we will require more land.

Gurudāsa: We will require a self-sufficient. Not only land, but we require a self-sufficient community.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Gurudāsa: Because of Kali-yuga. And also everyone in Vṛndāvana that I mention that we are planning to have gośala, everyone likes the idea. That will be very popular here. Gośala, everyone, their eyes become bright.

Prabhupāda: Make at least gośala, keep cows. That is also profitable.

Gurudāsa: Yes, maybe we should do that.

Prabhupāda: One or two men may simply take care of the cows.

Gurudāsa: Maybe we should do that.

Prabhupāda: And grow grass, let them pasture.

Gurudāsa: Yes, and plant trees.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: Maybe we should do that.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we have to utilize the land; otherwise what is the use?

Gurudāsa: No, of course.

Prabhupāda: Suppose we invest one lakh of rupees. One lakh rupees means 10,000 rupees per annum, almost 800, 900 rupees per month, yes interest. So we must utilize it. From this monetary point of view, because they get bank interest, people are not very interested in land.

Gurudāsa: But you can't eat money.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: You can't eat money.

Prabhupāda: Ultimately that is the...[aside] what? [break] ...somehow or other, but it must be properly utilized. Who will give me massage?

Satsvarūpa: Oh, Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: So ask him. [break] ...money.

Gurudāsa: My point of..., you can't eat money means that if it is in the bank earning interest...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: My point was if it is in the bank earning interest, we may die at any moment, so what is the point of in the bank? But if we have some land and utilizing it, it is a better investment.

Prabhupāda: First you purchase, then we shall make program. For the time being, purchase. Actually that is money.

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: When you sow it, it will bring more money. There will be no problem.

Gurudāsa: In the old system, land and jewelry was riches.

Prabhupāda: Jewelry for rich man, land for ordinary man. Land and food grains, that is money. So at our present status, how we can utilize this land? As grazing ground, money?

Gurudāsa: Presently I think gośala is more practical.

Prabhupāda: There is another gośala, they are not utilizing, Panchar Gośala. Why don't you try for that? They can give it free, that we shall... "Give us it, we shall utilize it for Kṛṣṇa."

Gurudāsa: We can try.

Prabhupāda: Find out who is Panchar. "If we do not use for gośala, then you can take it back. But we shall utilize it for gośala. So why don't you give us the land?" Attached to the temple, we maintain a gośala.

Gurudāsa: That's nice.

Prabhupāda: Still we shall require to grow some food for the cows, and nice water supply. Then you simply keep the cows there. They will eat and drink and remain here peacefully. Only one room for watching.

Dr. Kapoor: [indistinct], he was complaining when I have last time... [break]

Prabhupāda: [Hindi]

Dr. Kapoor: I think he had given him the books for distribution. He is distributing them.

Prabhupāda: But he was to give one house and so many things, then he was to distribute them, whatever.

Dr. Kapoor: Huh?

Prabhupāda: [Hindi] [break]

Bhagavān: ...should we come back again.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi with Indian]

Gurudāsa: Also, in Vṛndāvana we are here to stay, no matter what the people say.

Dr. Kapoor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi conversation for several minutes]

Dr. Kapoor: Ācchā. He is not a [indistinct]?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: He is not a [indistinct]?

Prabhupāda: You do not know?

Dr. Kapoor: No, I don't know. I think he is a graduate. Huh? He's not even a graduate? [Prabhupāda chuckles] I was told that he was a graduate long ago, you see, when I used to go to Calcutta, the Gauḍīya Maṭh there.

Prabhupāda: Anyway...

Dr. Kapoor: And Bon Mahārāja also has told he is a graduate. What is he?

Prabhupāda: What is he?

Dr. Kapoor: Bon Mahārāja, graduate? He is Karachi graduate.

Prabhupāda: No, I don't think so. Anyway, so [Hindi]. Bon Mahārāja is a [Hindi], very important.

Dr. Kapoor: [Hindi]

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. [Hindi] [break]

Bhagavān: Before I came, we had one big festival in Geneva for two days, Saturday and Sunday. Each night over 500 people. It was nice. Geneva's not very big.

Prabhupāda: Geneva is important town.

Bhagavān: Important. Not very big, though.

Prabhupāda: International town.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: When I was going to London from Bombay..., no, no, when I was going to Switzerland, I think I stopped at Geneva.

Bhagavān: Zurich. You were in Zurich.

Prabhupāda: Zurich; before that I stopped at Geneva. I saw the airport, very big airport. Then I went Zurich. And from Zurich I went to some Mount St....

Bhagavān: St. Hellish. [laughs]

Prabhupāda: You have been there? You are right, St. Hellish. [indistinct]

Bhagavān: [laughs] Śyāmasundara.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Śyāmasundara, "Oh, I have to..." He spent money for that. I thought, "It is hellish." [laughter] Always covered with snow. I could not get out. Two days I was imprisoned in that hotel room. But people go there.

Yamunā: For health.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yamunā: For their health.

Prabhupāda: What is the health there? But one wonderful I saw from there. Down 10,000 feet, [indistinct] hill.

Bhagavān: Mountain.

Prabhupāda: Mountain, yes. Down I saw the railway is going on. [break] ...has entered the sky. That is it. That is [indistinct]. And the railway is very nice. Not like Darjeeling.

Dr. Kapoor: You have to leave just now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was to leave this morning, but I was to eat Yamunā's cooking. [indistinct]cooking. Cooking was very nice, but I had no appetite.

Yamunā: Appetite. No appetite.

Prabhupāda: From yesterday lost my appetite.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because I was massaging you from yesterday.

Prabhupāda: [chuckles] No, that's not. It is Kṛṣṇa's grace to have less appetite, I think. Less sleep, less appetite, it is good. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. They conquered over, but I have not conquered it. By Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is reduced.

Satsvarūpa: May I have the key to the almirah, put these books away?

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] You have got the duplicate key? So I can take this key?

Gurudāsa: Yes, I've given it to Guṇārṇava just now.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: I've given it to Guṇārṇava this morning, the duplicate.

Prabhupāda: Oh. [break]

Yamunā: So I will not live in this place.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yamunā: I will not live in your house, but I will work here. Because there is some objection from the boys, a lady living here.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi with Dr. Kapoor]

Dr. Kapoor: He did not attend that meeting. So he doesn't have any first hand in publishing.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi]

Dr. Kapoor: All the gosvāmīs. A representative gathering of all the gosvāmīs.

Prabhupāda: All the gosvāmīs [indistinct] all Rādhā-Ramaṇa gosvāmīs?

Dr. Kapoor: No, not all Rādhā-Ramaṇa gosvāmīs. The Rādhā-Damodara gosvāmīs are represented by...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: They were represented by [indistinct] Gosvāmī and Maharaja [indistinct] Gosvāmī, but the gosvāmīs of the other temples.

Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī.

Yamunā: Rādhā-Dāmodara's were there?

Dr. Kapoor: Rādhā-Dāmodara was there. Yes.

Yamunā: Yesterday Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī was little bit rude, yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? To you?

Yamunā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What did he say?

Yamunā: He was angry because he had locked the door and locked me outside, and I knocked on the door until he came, and he was angry. He was a little rude. So I could tell something was wrong.

Gurudāsa: Because usually he is not so rude.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudāsa: Usually he is not rude.

Yamunā: He is never harsh. He was a little harsh. I could tell something was wrong.

Prabhupāda: So they are planning something.

Dr. Kapoor: I don't know exactly. I've not been able to make out what their plans are exactly, because they don't tell me everything.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: They don't tell me everything. They have something up their sleeves. I don't know what.

Gurudāsa: So what should be our...

Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī, other time he was not harsh?

Yamunā: Not to me. To Gurudāsa maybe, but never me.

Prabhupāda: But this time he was harsh?

Yamunā: Yes, very harsh.

Prabhupāda: What did he say?

Yamunā: He was yelling.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yamunā: He was yelling, raising his voice. He wasn't speaking in a quiet tone, he was yelling at me, "Why you are disturbing my sevā-pūjā by making me come to the door?" I said, "I am engaged in Vaiṣṇava sevā as well. Vaiṣṇava sevā and Kṛṣṇa sevā. You please excuse me." I was very courteous, but he was harsh.

Prabhupāda: So he was on the door?

Yamunā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana temple door?

Yamunā: Yes, putting the wooden bolt so I can't come inside. Yesterday this was. After leaving here for pravacana and going there, he had locked the gate. Then I knocked until he came.

Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī or Rādhā-Ramaṇa?

Yamunā: No, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī.

Prabhupāda: So what business you have to go to Madana-Mohana temple at that time?

Yamunā: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī of Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.

Prabhupāda: Ohhhh.

Yamunā: Gaurachand's other side, where we live.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī. I thought from Madana-Mohana temple.

Yamunā: No.

Prabhupāda: Well, what about this Gaurachand Gosvāmī?

Yamunā: He is calling for Gurudāsa sometimes. We don't speak so much. I don't see him because he isn't doing worship for the Deity of Dāmodara any more. So he is quiet, stays in the background. I think he wants sometimes a little money.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Yamunā: I think he is having a little difficulty with money, so he asks sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Some help?

Yamunā: Sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Does he?

Gurudāsa: Not very often; sometimes.

Yamunā: Otherwise we don't see so much. But now I find he moved from Dāmodara.

Gurudāsa: The last time I saw him, he said he wants Panchu to work for us. He said he...

Prabhupāda: So what he will work? What he will work?

Gurudāsa: He says he will do anything.

Prabhupāda: Anything, but what anything? What?

Gurudāsa: Right now we have no work except construction. So what should I tell him when I see him?

Prabhupāda: What about?

Gurudāsa: If he asks what about Panchu working there?

Prabhupāda: So what kind of work you can provide? Is there any work for him?

Gurudāsa: Only now construction.

Prabhupāda: The construction, what he will do? He has no experience. Now see this gosvāmī, worshiping Deity, now he has no worshiping job = "Give me construction work."

Gurudāsa: When we start our Deity program, should we...?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Gurudāsa: No paid?

Prabhupāda: No pay, neither... He smokes.

Gurudāsa: Suppose he will join us and shave head and give up bīḍīs, then he can...

Prabhupāda: That will take six life. [laughter] Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19]. It is not so easy. It is not so easy. To give up all these things, it is only by Kṛṣṇa's grace. But they are not meant for that. But for money's sake, business' sake, they can take any shape. That is another thing. At least they will not be able to give up bīḍīs. That is not possible. They may be gosvāmī for everything, not for bīḍī. [speaks Hindi with Indian man briefly]

Dr. Kapoor: So Prabhupāda, I have an engagement at 4:30. I came only to see you because Nirvāsi told me that you were leaving.

Prabhupāda: [Hindi]

Gurudāsa: So is there any instructions about this gosvāmī business that you have?

Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī business? What gosvāmī business?

Gurudāsa: These gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana that are agitated.

Prabhupāda: No, I have not received any letter from them. Unless we receive a letter, how we can say anything?

Dr. Kapoor: I have told Purushottam Gosvāmī...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: I have told Purushottam Gosvāmī and the other gosvāmīs also that Prabhupāda is in a very conciliatory mood, and if you make a proper approach, he is prepared to make proper amends for whatever has been taken in bad [indistinct].

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Kapoor: But the approach should be proper.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: The approach should be proper.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You told him?

Dr. Kapoor: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Kapoor: I told him about the drafts, you see, that you made the other day. I said, "Prabhupāda has only agreed. It was so magnanimous of him, so magnanimous."

Prabhupāda: Yes, I told you Friday, you write, I shall sign it. And why they are agitating and stopped such a function? And that is very regrettable. Gosvāmī means vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegaṁ viṣaheta [Upadeśāmṛta 1]. If there is some krodha, he should tolerate. Now here is a Vaiṣṇava, he has done so much for Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and the reception was there, and he stopped. How he is gosvāmī? He expressed his krodha in that very moment, just to take retaliation. It is not gosvāmī. What do you think? Krodha-vegam. It is a krodha, but he could not tolerate that krodha-vegam.

He retaliated at the right moment and to a person, fit person, who was to be honored. Just see. And he claims to be gosvāmī. The first business is vāco vegaṁ krodha-vegam. The Vaikuṇṭha mentality is that if one is serving---I have read it in Bhāgavata---Kṛṣṇa better than somebody else, he would simply appreciate that "Kṛṣṇa has so much favored him. Oh, how fortunate he is. When I shall be able?" That is Vaikuṇṭha mentality. And the material mentality is, "Oh, he has advanced so much. How to cut down him?" That is material. This is the difference between Vaikuṇṭha mentality. So his business is how to cut down. So he is not a gosvāmī. At least I will not accept. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Dr. Kapoor: Of course you are.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: What shall I say? [chuckles]

Prabhupāda: This is the definition of gosvāmī. Vāco vegam krodha-vegam udaro-vegam pastha-vegam etān manasaḥ vegam, etān vegān viṣaheta dhīraḥ pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt [NoI 1]. So he has not proved to be very dhīra. Dhīrādhīra-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau [Śrīnivāsa Ācārya]. So that is my regret, that these people cannot appreciate the service of a Vaiṣṇava. They are simply personally interested. Personally interested is materialistic way of life. Everybody is personally interested. [break]

Dr. Kapoor: I think after he returns he will do something.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Kapoor: He might do something after he returns.

Prabhupāda: All right, we shall see to it. [end]