Morning Walk , Los Angeles , 1973-12-21
Prajāpati: His name is Harvey Cox, and he's at Harvard University, and his books are read by millions of people. As soon as one of his books come out, everybody looks. So he..., in this new book, his basic thesis is that God is especially interested to the causes of the poor people, and the poor people are much closer to God than anyone else.
Prabhupāda: Another rascal.
Prajāpati: I was wondering if Your Divine Grace would like to comment on such a thesis.
Prabhupāda: He is a rascal.
Karandhara: There's another very prominent... He's a psychiatrist and a theologian. His name is Menninger. So about ten years ago he wrote a book that the conception of sin and evil was unnecessary, and one should give up considering that some things are sins. Now he just wrote a book saying that he was wrong, that since he has promoted this theory everyone is degrading, and that the theory of sin and evil should be maintained to keep the people in good order.
Prabhupāda: So these rascals will change every year their theology. So what is the value of their words? Childish. [break] ...changes, he is a rascal. That is our... We say, "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme." We never change it. And "Surrender is the only process." We shall never change it. In any circumstance we will not change it. That is the difference. And these rascals will change every year their opinion.
[break] ...they are rascals. [break] Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, the Supreme. All the ācāryas accepted, the Supreme. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted, Supreme. My Guru Mahārāja accepted, Supreme. I am accepting, Supreme. I am teaching the same thing. So there is no change. Not that after a few years it will be changed. That never be. That is our position. [break]
Changing means material world. Anything material is susceptible to change. Just this material body---I am changing my body, but I am the spirit soul. I am not changing. That is the difference. So all these so-called theologicians, they have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. All rascals. They cannot understand what is God. That I have explained. Simply speculating. It will not help. [break] [some Indian people have joined the walk] [Hindi]
Guest (1) [Indian man]: Yes, yes, yes. She is...
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Now we are talking of one theologician. Some years ago, just... Narrate the... Yes.
Prajāpati: This basic thesis of the leading theologian in our country... He's saying that the poor people are closer to God, and God is specifically looking on their cause more than anyone else. He's at Harvard University.
Prabhupāda: But the one thing is, who is poor? Admitting. We admit, of course, that God is specially interested with the fallen, or degraded. But first thing is that who is fallen? Who is poor? That is to be ascertained.
Guest (1): But there is one more thing. I don't think God could be so partial that He would...
Prabhupāda: No, God cannot be partial.
Guest (1): ...that He would look only to the poor. But as there is a saying in Hindi that [Hindi]. So they say, "When a man is poor and he is miserable, then he remembers more God."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Not necessarily. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā = catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtino 'rjuna, ārto arthārthī [Bg. 7.16]. When one is distressed he remembers God, if he is pious. If he is not pious...
Guest (1): Then he won't remember. Then he will curse him. Then he will curse.
Guest (1): That is correct. But even a pious man in prosperity, he doesn't think of God so much.
Prabhupāda: If he is pious, then in his distress, he will remember God.
Guest (1): Yes, but a pious man in his prosperity sometimes forgets, as Sugrīva had the tendency to forget and he had to be reminded.
Prabhupāda: No, that is very rarely. Sugrīva forgot. Anyway, there is chance of such thing, because the distressed man, although he is pious, as soon as his distress is moved, then he forgets. There is such chance. Therefore, ārto arthārthī jñānī jijñāsuḥ [Bg. 7.16]. Four classes of men. So ārto arthārthī, they, after benefiting by the grace of God, they may forget. But those who are jñānī, they will not forget.
Guest (1): They will not forget.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difference. So these theologicians, they are changing their opinion. What is that, Karandhara, you said?
Karandhara: Well, another very prominent psychiatrist and theologian, about ten years ago he wrote a very famous book wherein he said that people should give up the idea of evil and sin, because it is just an inhibition on the mind. But now he just wrote another book saying that he was wrong, and since people have given up the idea of sin and evil, the whole world has degraded to such a bad state that now, even though there may not be a God, they should still believe in evil just to keep things in order.
Prabhupāda: Then if there is no God, then who will judge what is evil and what is right, if there is no God? People are abiding the law, "Keep to the right," "Keep to the left," because they know, "Behind this order, there is government." If he does not keep the arrangement, then he will be punished. So as soon as you accept the principles of bad and good, then you have to accept God. Now, this kind of theologician, some years ago his opinion was something, and now his opinion is different.
Guest (1): I think they keep on changing their opinion according to the world condition...
Prabhupāda: So that is not perfect.
Guest (1): And when they see that the conditions and the things in the world as they are, they don't fit in with their theories, then they change their theories.
Prabhupāda: No. So they are opportunists. They are not learned scholar. Our proposition is that five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa taught that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma [Bg. 10.12] = "Yes, You are Supreme." Then all the ācāryas later on---Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya---all accepted. "Yes," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].
Then after that, ācārya system, Lord Caitanya accepted, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." So after Caitanya, five hundred years, all the ācāryas, they are accepting. So we are accepting or teaching the same thing. No change. No change. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam [Bg. 2.20]. If there is change, that is not nitya, that is not śāśvata. That is circumstantial. That is material.
Guest (1): Yes. That is the difference between man-made law and... Nitya and śāśvata.
Prabhupāda: [japa] Yes. I was coming here at six, but I caught cold. Therefore I have changed the time.
Guest (1): Yes, six is a bit too early.
Prabhupāda: Yes, too early. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break] ...loving propensity, we want to love somebody, up to the dog, but we are not getting satisfaction because the love is placed in wrong place. But if you love Kṛṣṇa, then everything will be all right. [break]. If you pour water on the root, it reaches to all the branches, twigs, leaves, flowers, everything. [break] [Hindi].
Guest (1): Disneyland, all sorts of shows and devices for children.
Prabhupāda: So children's father also go there? [break]
Guest (1): She is also doing that japa. And while this mālā, doing mālā, and doing the japa, the mind doesn't remain fixed in God. You know, it wanders about. So what is the way of fixing the mind?
Prabhupāda: To hear. "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Chant and hear.
Guest (1): Speak loudly.
Guest (2) [Indian lady]: Speak loudly but still the mind goes away here and there.
Prabhupāda: Then that is called abhyāsa-yoga-yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā [Bg. 8.8]. That you have to practice. [Hindi] We have got a saṅkhyā, that "You must perform so many times." It doesn't matter what is... Then gradually, [Hindi]. This is the only...
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
[Hindi] So we have to follow.And actually it is becoming effective.
Guest (2): I think it takes many births to have the effect. Many births to have the effect.
Prabhupāda: No, you can have immediately, provided you follow the rules and regulation. That's all. Not many births. Immediately. Tat-kṣaṇāt. Śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt, in the Bhāgavata it is said. Īśvaraḥ sadyo hṛdy avarudhyate śuśrūṣubhis tat-kṣaṇāt [SB 1.1.2]. The tat-kṣaṇāt means immediately. But one must very eager. That's all. That is the only qualification. Otherwise, Śukadeva Gosvāmī would not..., Vyāsadeva would not have used this word, tat-kṣaṇāt, "immediately." I think that hill is Hollywood?
Jayatīrtha: Beverly Hills, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That is Beverly Hill.
Karandhara: No, that is Hollywood Hills.
Karandhara: Those hills are Hollywood Hills.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [Hindi]
Guest (1): [Hindi]
Jayatīrtha: If one isn't eager, how can he become eager, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: By association. By association. Therefore this Society. We are giving chance. You were not eager four years ago. Now why you are eager? You come to the Society and become eager, automatically. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ [SB 3.25.25]. By sat-saṅga, it becomes very pleasing to the ear and to the heart. And if you little try, then it becomes successful. But if it is so-called sat-saṅga, professional, hired Bhāgavata-reader, then it will... Thousand, thousand years will no..., not effect.
Guest (1): Then it is merchandising.
Prabhupāda: Merchandising. That is the... [Hindi] Each verse of Bhāgavata is volumes of philosophy, but they neither they know it, neither they explain it. The Bhāgavata-patha means rāsa-līlā. That's all.
Guest (1): Yes, that is what Bhāgavata has been...
Prabhupāda: What they will understand, rāsa-līlā?
Guest (1): It has been misrepresented.
Prabhupāda: Misrepresented. They will think that it is ordinary, just like young boy, young girls, they mix together.
Guest (1): And that rāsa-līlā is also not taken in that moral sense. It is more of a sex exploitation. That is how they...
Prabhupāda: No. Why one should go to the rāsa-līlā? It is in the Tenth Canto. And in the thirty-fifth chapter. So what is the purpose?
Guest (1): No. That is being misrepresented. That has also been taken as an enjoyment.
Guest (1): It has been taken more as sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. So Karandhara Prabhu, this time is nice.
Karandhara: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: We get full sunshine. Yes.
Guest (1): Prabhupāda, what is the meaning of the word "Śrīla"?
Prabhupāda: Śrīla is... Just like we say "Śrī" to the ordinary person. And Śrīla to very respectable person.
Guest (1): La.
Prabhupāda: La, yes. Śrī means beauty, and la means līlā. So "one who is invested with both beauty and the power to understand the līlā of Kṛṣṇa." [break] Ashok's mother came to see me in Bombay.
Guest (2): Yes, I have asked her. First I came, then I told her.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that lady came to see me. Very nice lady.
Guest (1): She has fixed up in her school. Ashok's mother, she has fixed up two or three programs in her school. Girl's school.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That [Hindi].
Girirāja: She showed the series of slides of Prahlāda Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: Oh. There in the school?
Girirāja: Yes. The children enjoyed it very much.
Prabhupāda: In Hawaii one seven-year-old boy... [break]
Prajāpati: The children here also, Prabhupāda. They love that book so... [break]
Girirāja: Yes, I know him.
Prabhupāda: What is his name?
Prabhupāda: Surajman. He is your family?
Guest (1): No, Birla's family. They are relatives, Birla's... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...son and daughter-in-law.
Guest (1): Surajman's son?
Prabhupāda: Not here. In London. [break] ...nephew of Vamana. Ācchā.
Guest (1): Didi Birla's sister's son. That is Chandra-[indistinct]. He is related to [indistinct].
Prabhupāda: Is that the man who gave us a car? He is Chandrakant?
Guest (1): Chandrakant. You were taking their house?
Girirāja: Yes. Near Mahatma Gandhi Road.
Guest (1): Yes, that is Chandrakant. In Calcutta? No?
Girirāja: ...what happened?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Yes, there is also my student. [break] When I went to... [break] Now the government is so irresponsible. Just like in Nairobi, I was refused permission. You see? We spent so much money, and they did not inform before. And when I was on the airport... That also, no written order. They said, "For higher authorities it is the order that you cannot enter." Just see.
Guest (1): Kenya.
Prabhupāda: Kenya. So at the present moment we have got many enemies of this movement. [Hindi] Hyderabad. "You are converting these European and American into brāhmaṇa. How they can become brāhmaṇa without taking birth as brāhmaṇa?" [Hindi]
Guest (1): You have done quite a lot. [laughs] [break]
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here also they go to parties. Where they go here?
Jayatīrtha: To downtown Los Angeles and Hollywood.
Prabhupāda: In New York, everywhere, every town, our men go and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and sells books. That's it. [break] ...order. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128] = "Whomever you meet, you just deliver the instruction of Kṛṣṇa to him." That's all. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa.
[break] [Hindi] They have got a cultural department, but not for helping this. And then... [Hindi] This is my position. Just see. [Hindi] That is the śāstric injunction. Kīrtana means about Viṣṇu. But these Ramakrishna men will say, "Why not Kālī?"
Guest (1): No, no, no, they never say that.
Prabhupāda: But they say that.
Guest (1): No, sir. I am attending their lectures, classes, and discussing with them.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda's philosophy is yata mata tata patha: "Whatever you have got, your opinion, that is all right." They organize kālī-kīrtana in competition to...
Guest (1): Yes, in their mandira. In the mandira. In the mandira their kīrtana is kālī-kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: But that is not recommended in the śāstra. Śāstra is = śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ [SB 7.5.23].
Guest (1): You are right, but then when it comes to... That was why it was outdoor kīrtana. And they said if they come, they can be our guests, and they called the kīrtana out to do what they like. He said, "So that is how..."
Prabhupāda: Which car? No, it is my auto?
Guest (1): Here is... [break]
Jagajjīvana: We don't have that many Spanish books.
Prabhupāda: English book.
Jagajjīvana: Yes. A small fair. Thousands of people go to this flower festival in the mountains, and we went in, and they let us in and we chanted, and hundreds of people came to chant. And then the officials came to stop us.
Jagajjīvana: Because we were... Too many people were coming to hear the chanting. So then...
Prabhupāda: They did not like it?
Jagajjīvana: No, they did not like it, the officials. So then we started to leave, thinking, "Well, rather than cause any trouble, we better leave." So then the people, they wouldn't let us leave. [laughter] So then the leaders there, they were forced to put us on stage. And so we chanted on stage with big microphones, and thousands of people came to listen, and then we taught them how to chant Nitāi-Gaurāṅga, and they all chanted = "Nitāi"---"Nitāi!" "Gaurāṅga"---"Gaurāṅga!" It was very amazing. And then we distributed books and we lectured. [break] Their Lordships Gaura-Nitāi have come because of that chanting, Deities. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...if the chanter is sincere.
Jagajjīvana: In the Dominican Republic, which is an island near us...
Jagajjīvana: In the Dominican Republic, near Santo Domingo, the chanting is so powerful, it draws so many people, that the government won't let us into the country because it is so powerful. We have devotees there now, though. They're there. We had to send a devotee incognito, in disguise, to get residence there. Now he's...
Prabhupāda: Oh, they will not give place?
Jagajjīvana: They didn't let us in to the country, but we have devotees there now. [break] We had an article in a magazine recently. I can show it to you later, on that.
Prabhupāda: What does he say?
Jagajjīvana: Well, it's about that we weren't allowed into Dominican Republic and they were stopping us from coming in, and that one million people buy our books..., and that millions of people buy our books and many people...
Prabhupāda: Spanish book?
Jagajjīvana: All types of books. Had some nice pictures. In the article there is a picture of us giving books to the governor of Puerto Rico. [break]
Prabhupāda: So we have got books in Spanish now? Which book?
Jagajjīvana: We have the...
Jagajjīvana: Yeah, we haven't gotten that yet, though. There is the Perfection of Yoga, Topmost Yoga, and the Back to Godhead.
Hṛdayānanda: Easy Journey to Other Planets.
Jagajjīvana: Yeah, but I don't have that. I have some copies, but not a lot.
Hṛdayānanda: Also On Chanting.
Jagajjīvana: Yeah, On Chanting. There is a chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, Second Chapter is done. It hasn't been distributed yet until February. We are two blocks away from a college. It has 32,000 students, and we go there every day and chant, and the Communists come, and we start preaching to them.
Prabhupāda: Students are under communistic?
Prabhupāda: What the Communists preaches?
Jagajjīvana: What do they preach?
Prabhupāda: There is no God?
Jagajjīvana: Yes. And that in this life you can become perfect. They can be a perfect man without Kṛṣṇa.
Jagajjīvana: Without Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So who has become that perfect man?
Jagajjīvana: Yes. They haven't.
Prabhupāda: Amongst your Communists, the Stalin is considered the greatest criminal in the world, in the history, Stalin. So how he is perfect man if he is the greatest criminal? [break]
Jagajjīvana: ...so many..., mostly Spanish countries. [break] Another town in Puerto Rico, we have a center there also.
Prabhupāda: Where it is?
Jagajjīvana: That is on the other side of the island, on Puerto Rico.
Prabhupāda: Rūpānuga Mahārāja went there?
Jagajjīvana: Yes. And...
Prabhupāda: He can speak in Spanish? No.
Jagajjīvana: No. We have a translator. He speaks and someone translates. And there is a school there with 25,000 students. Scientist students. [break] ...all photographs of the chanting to show how people are taking this.
Prabhupāda: Taking part. That's nice.
Jagajjīvana: So they will see the potency of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
[break] ...many devotees. Sixty, seventy devotees. And Viṣṇujana Mahārāja was there with Rādhā-Dāmodara. He is doing very nicely. And then I stopped in Atlanta to see Balavanta Prabhu, and he has got a big office now.
Jagajjīvana: Yes. He is thinking of running for Congress next. [break] And that was very nice.
Prabhupāda: Students are doing very nice?
Jagajjīvana: Oh, yes. I was there before, with Amarendra's..., when Amarendra ran for mayor in Dallas. I helped him with that. And I got a chance to associate with the children there. And they have made so much advancement since last I was there.
Prabhupāda: They are now chanting ślokas very nice?
Jagajjīvana: Yes. Dayānanda Prabhu is doing very well. And Hiraṇyagarbha Prabhu is teaching them Sanskrit and English. But mostly they like kīrtana. They become very ecstatic during kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: That is real business.
Jagajjīvana: So Mohanānanda was very good at kīrtana. He was kīrtana man. [indistinct] Expert. [end]