Morning Walk , Los Angeles , 1973-12-19

Prabhupāda: ...that "Bhagavad-gītā is now old. We require new knowledge." What is your answer?

Hṛdayānanda: That Kṛṣṇa is eternal and perfect, and whatever Kṛṣṇa speaks is also eternally perfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break] Śāśvata means eternally fresh. Therefore ignorance is also eternal, because knowledge means absence of ignorance. That is knowledge. So side by side, two things are there. Now, if you are in ignorance, there is no knowledge.

Hṛdayānanda: Nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Nāsato vidyate bhāvaḥ [Bg. 2.16]. It is the negative. Positive side is knowledge. Darkness. Darkness. Just like where there is no light, there is darkness. Harer nāma harer nāma... [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. [break]

Prajāpati: ...Prabhupāda, we'll be able to see that comet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: They say one hour before dawn in the eastern horizon.

[indistinct aside]

[break] ...talking a lot about in..., trusting in God. What is the Sanskrit for trust? What word would be used in the śāstras?

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā.

Prajāpati: Śraddhyā?

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā, faith.

Prajāpati: And there are particular scriptural verses that speak about this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is the beginning of spiritual consciousness, faith.

śraddhā-śabde---viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya
kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya

[Cc. Madhya 22.62]

This is the version of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm faith. Śraddhā-śabde viśvāsa sudṛḍha niścaya. Firm faith. And firm faith is trust. "I trust you" means I have got firm faith in you. Is it not? So trust means firm faith. Firm faith means... Now that "So long God is my order supplier, I trust in Him, and as soon as He refuses to supply my order, I don't trust Him," that is not firm faith. "God is putting me in distress; still, I trust Him. Or God is putting me in happiness; still, I trust Him," that is called firm faith. In any circumstances, the faith is not withdrawn. That is firm faith.

Prajāpati: Unconditionally, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unconditionally means sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66], giving up all other conditions of faith. [break]

Jayatīrtha: "We only hear about him eating."

Prabhupāda: Why you did not refute that idea? We see every moment God.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that light? Even if you see light, what do you gain by that?

Jayatīrtha: He says that Guru Maharaj-ji is the light.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Here is electric light also. So what is the benefit? Light, you have got so many lights. So what is the benefit? If you remain in the darkness, then what is the benefit of this light? Light means you are not in darkness. But you are in darkness. If you have got the light, then you can see Kṛṣṇa. But why do you say that by Kṛṣṇa consciousness we cannot see Kṛṣṇa? Rascal. We may not see. But you have seen the light, why don't you see Kṛṣṇa? Do you know what is Kṛṣṇa, if you have seen Kṛṣṇa?

Hṛdayānanda: It's true, Prabhupāda. They are in darkness because they cannot check their material activities by seeing the light. They go on with sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: No, light... We have go so many lights. What is the benefit of seeing the light?

Jayatīrtha: They only call us so that we'll arrange to bring some prasādam.

Prabhupāda: [laughs] They do not supply prasādam, these rascals? [break] Everyone can see. So if Guru Maharaj-ji is light, then why everybody does not follow? If he is light, light can be seen by everyone. Just like sunlight, moonlight, we can see. Everyone can see.

Hṛdayānanda: They argue that he only will reveal himself to those who surrender to him.

Prabhupāda: But those who have surrendered, they cannot speak anything. They are in darkness. When we talk with your disciple who has surrendered, they cannot argue with us. They are in darkness. So what kind of light he has seen?

Jayatīrtha: It is all just sentimental.

Prajāpati: Many of these bogus groups, Prabhupāda, they claim that God is simply sound and light. So their meditation means seeing what they call ājñā-cakra, or point between eyebrows. They see there and they hear sounds, bells and thunder and flute, all within. And that is their meditation---hearing these sounds and see these lights.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but what do you gain by that?

Prajāpati: Supposedly they go to higher levels of existence, higher levels of consciousness. They change the sound, and the colors change as they...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot give up even smoking. You are in higher level of consciousness? So what is the proof that you are on the higher level of the consciousness? You cannot give up even ordinary things.

Jayatīrtha: They say that the scriptures aren't relevant in this age, that they don't make any difference in this age. They were for previous ages.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jayatīrtha: Because Guru Maharaj-ji... Because people cannot understand them, so Guru Maharaj-ji has simply come and making it very simple. He just makes them see the light, and then everything is simple. They don't have to do anything else.

Prabhupāda: And what is the benefit of seeing that light? He has to work, he has to search out for food. So what is the benefit by seeing the light? By seeing the light, has he become freed from all this botheration? Then what is the use of..., what light you have seen?

Hṛdayānanda: Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 2.59].

Prabhupāda: Nivartate.

Prajāpati: They say the benefit of the light is that light is God. So when they see that light, that is God. So that is the benefit.

Prabhupāda: No. When we see light, we must know there is a source of light. Just like you are seeing the light, and the light is there; therefore there must be a source of the light. Unless you see Him, it is not perfect. Besides that, whether you have seen actually the light? What is the result of seeing that light? Do they explain? Suppose he has seen; I have not seen. So what is the difference between him and me?

Jayatīrtha: Unless the heart becomes purified, there is no sense in seeing any light. The heart has to become cleansed.

Hṛdayānanda: They say they will be happier than someone who has not seen the light. Their life will have more meaning.

Prabhupāda: So happier, they are becoming happier in so many other ways. What is the use of seeing the light?

Jayatīrtha: The pigs are also happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Don't waste time by arguing with him. Neglect them. Do not talk of them.

Hṛdayānanda: Just like you say, Prabhupāda, they are actually defeating themselves.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hṛdayānanda: They are defeating themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes. [break]

Prajāpati: The scientists are much more formidable demons.

Prabhupāda: Not formidable. They can be easily conquered.

Hṛdayānanda: I have heard that Amarendra is defeating them in Gainesville, Florida.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: Amarendra. He goes to scientific meetings and he defeats them. And the devotees go in the audience, and they cheer, and he defeats them.

Prabhupāda: That's right. [break]

Prajāpati: Is it sometimes cold in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: No. [laughter] You don't like to go there?

Prajāpati: Oh, yes, I like to go there. Actually, I would rather be here in the cold with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, than be in the warm without you.

Prabhupāda: That we get the information from Bhagavad-gītā. It is said, na yatra bhāsayate sūryaḥ [Bg. 15.6] = there is no need of sunshine. So how it can be cold? Sunshine is required where it is cold, but there is no need of sunshine. Naturally, the conclusion should be it is neither cold, neither hot. It is enjoyable. Cold, heat, all troubles, they are in the material world. The spiritual world is simply blissful life, enjoying. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalaṁ...

[break] As soon as the light is there, the darkness is gone. So why in the night there is darkness if he is light? Why in the night meeting these rascals require other light, electric light, if he is light? What kind of light he is? If he is light, at least they could save the expenditure of electric light. But why does he use electric light?

Prajāpati: He says he only sees light when he closes his eyes.

Prabhupāda: Close?

Prajāpati: Like this.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, close or open...

Devotee: It's inner light.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Inner light, not outward light.

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: Then he is not absolute. He is relative. He is relative. He is not absolute. So God is absolute, but you are relative. Therefore you are not God.

Hṛdayānanda: Just like Kṛṣṇa illuminated the house of the gopīs.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... He does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use the electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside; therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. [break] A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be.

[break] ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light; you are darkness. Our that slogan is, "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Kṛṣṇa is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business. You sold Bhagavad-gītā. [laughs] That is our profit. That's all.

Hṛdayānanda: Over a thousand.

Prabhupāda: Just see. In that meeting?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they could not sell their magazine.

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: [laughing] So just imagine where is light. In our side or their side?

Devotee: Our side.

Prabhupāda: They are deprecating, "Bhagavad-gītā is now old. We require new knowledge." Still, we sold thousand copies.

Hṛdayānanda: Finally, the Guru Maharaj-ji said over the microphone, "Don't buy more of these Bhagavad-gītās." [laughter] He said, "It's not bona fide."

Devotee: He said like that?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. I told Prabhupāda that when the devotees had a big kīrtana, all the people...

Prabhupāda: So what was the result? Stopped?

Hṛdayānanda: Yeah, after that it was more difficult. After that, the devotees were preaching more to individuals. But that was already after a thousand Gītās had been sold. Everyone left their meeting and went out to see the kīrtana. They had to keep calling them back, over and over again, "Please, please come back." [end]