Morning Walk , Los Angeles , 1973-05-05
Devotee: [introducing recording] Prabhupāda's morning walk, May 5th, 1973.
Prabhupāda: This cloud is for rain.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Huh?
Prabhupāda: This cloud is for rain.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was raining a little bit when I came, in the south, towards Laguna Beach. It was raining.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And when I came this side, it was very clear.
Prabhupāda: You approach the United Nation also. What they are doing? [chuckles] Simply wasting money. What is their aim and object, United Nation?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Peaceful co-existence.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Peaceful co-existence. Cooperation among the nations.
Prabhupāda: So, what they have done so far?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nothing.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Brahmānanda: Many speeches.
Prabhupāda: Peaceful co-existence is this, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Brahmānanda: [remarking on work on beach] They did not do anything. [laughs] These posts are still here.
Śrutakīrti: They are finding it very difficult.
[some noise of people yelling a distance away]
What they are doing there? Something aimless. [japa]
[break] ...because frogs never come to the... You will never find a frog in the ocean. Did you mark it?
Prabhupāda: Here you have got so many animals, but never a frog.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Maybe they don't like the salt.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, frog is conspicuous by absence. There is no frog. Therefore that example is given. They have never seen what is the ocean. [laughs] So all these scientists, they are frogs. They have never seen what is the kingdom of God. Therefore this example, "Doctor Frog." Doctor Frog is never visible in the ocean. They are visible only within this circle, well. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This example is available in Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in nyāya-śāstra. Kūpa-maṇḍūka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍūka. Kūpa means well, and maṇḍūka means frog. "The frog in the well." The frogs, sometimes they are in river also, in bank of the rivers. But never in the ocean.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The environment is not suitable. They are a freshwater species.
Prabhupāda: Well, they are also aquatics. They also live in water. But they are unfit for living in ocean water. So many varieties of life, different living entities meant for different purposes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: According to the desire of the...
Prabhupāda: According to the desire of the living entity. All facilities, whatever you want, you can have. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam [Cc. Ādi 17.21]. Another logic is bakāṇḍa-nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bakāṇḍa?
Prabhupāda: Bakāṇḍa. Baka and aṇḍa. Baka, the duck, duck. And aṇḍa, the testicle, testicle of the bull. The bull is going, and the testicle is hanging, and the duck is after it. He is thinking, "Here is a fish." [laughter] You find him always going. "When it will drop?" Bakāṇḍa. This is nature's study.
[break] The baka, the duck, they are after fish. So the testicle is hanging, he's thinking, "It's a big fish. It will drop now." So it will never drop, but he is going after it. Just see. Neither it is fish. Another logic is āja-gala-stana. Āja-gala-stana. You have seen on the goats in the neck, just like nipples. So if one is expecting milk from that nipple, he is also fool. It is not nipple, but it looks like nipple. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is like the mirage in the desert?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Illusion.
Prabhupāda: Illusion, these are illusions. Āja-gala-stana-nyāya is applied for these rascals, those who are thinking that from matter life is coming. Exactly the same. They are thinking that "Here are nipples, there will milk come. Let us milk here."
Brahmānanda: But they are not getting. They are saying, "Maybe in the future."
Prabhupāda: Yes, in future, yes. [laughter] In Sanskrit logic all these examples are there from nature's study.
Prabhupāda: Simple, yes. [japa] Another is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. Nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya, just like sometimes if somebody says, "Mother, when you were a child, you were naked. Why do you put cloth now?" Nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. The mother was naked when she was a child; therefore she should remain naked still. That is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya.
Brahmānanda: What is that in connection?
Prabhupāda: It has connection, if somebody was not very important and now he has become important. So the logic is, "How this man can be important?" This logic. That because the mother was naked in the childhood, therefore she should not put on any garment. This is nagna-mātṛkā-nyāya. Things, we change according to the circumstances. You cannot say that "This must remain like this."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is also not because of the development of consciousness?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The consciousness is finished...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Everything is development of consciousness. So when one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is perfect. Consciousness is there even in the tree, but that is not developed. When you cut the tree, it feels. Even a child, their consciousness is not developed. Sometimes operation in the body of a child does not require anesthetic, because they do not feel much. You can go on surgical operation on the child's body, and they will feel little, because the consciousness is not developed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So according to the consciousness...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...when a person becomes very old, he should be very intelligent.
Prabhupāda: No, no. It is a question of consciousness of the body. That does not mean when a dog becomes very old he becomes very experienced. No. Consciousness according to the body. The same theory. Because a child's body is not developed, the consciousness is also not developed.
[aside:] Hare Kṛṣṇa.
And these rascals say that because the consciousness is not developed, he has no soul. Soul is there even within the tree. But because the consciousness is not developed, the sensation is less.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still the consciousness in a particular species is developing.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere is developing consciousness. And the topmost development is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the modern science, they say when one becomes old, the memory becomes short, and then they tend to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The body has changed. Therefore you have to accept that body has changed. Therefore next conclusion is when this body is lost, he gets another body. Change of body. Seasonal changes. [japa] That one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ: acceptance of another body. They, these modern scientists, they do not know this. They sometimes explain medical science that blood corpuscles are changing. Do they not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are sometimes white, they say. Suppose when I am injured, by external something hurt. They say the white blood corpuscles are responsible to protect the body. But when the white blood corpuscles is not enough, then infection normally occurs.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, there is change of corpuscle. And with the change of corpuscles there is change of body. That is scientific. Therefore body is changing every moment, so why not after death? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So consciousness is also subject to body change, change of body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Body's circumstances, association. Saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. According to association, atmosphere, circumstances, the desires changes. So that is... Desire means consciousness. Just like our boys, they had different consciousness before coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like you are also scientist, there are other scientist. But your consciousness is different from their. Therefore you could challenge him like that = If you can create life by accumulation of these facts. He says, "That I do not know." He is not confident in his science.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has not experienced yet. He has not seen yet.
Prabhupāda: He is not above the defects, four defects of conditioned life. You know these four defects?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Illusion...
Prabhupāda: Illusion, mistake, cheating, imperfectness. They are aware of the imperfectness of the senses. Still they are proud of their knowledge. This is illusion. [end]