Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.8.38 , Los Angeles , 1973-04-30

Pradyumna: Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. [leads chanting of verse] [devotees repeat]

ke vayaṁ nāma-rūpābhyāṁ
yadubhiḥ saha pāṇḍavāḥ
bhavato 'darśanaṁ yarhi
hṛṣīkāṇām iveśituḥ


ke---who are; vayam---we; nāma-rūpābhyām---without fame and ability; yadubhiḥ---with the Yadus; saha---along with; pāṇḍavāḥ---and the Pāṇḍavas; bhavataḥ---Your; adarśanam---absence; yarhi---as if; hṛṣīkāṇām---of the senses; iva---like; īśituḥ---of the living being.


Translation = "As the name and fame of a particular body is finished with the disappearance of the living spirit, similarly, if You do not look upon us, all our fame and activities, along with the Pāṇḍavas and the Yadus, will end at once."

Prabhupāda: So this is the case not only with the Pāṇḍavas, but every one of us. When somebody dies, big man, big scientist, big politician, big philosopher, when he's dead, the big name, "Here is Mr. Nixon, here is Mr...., Sir Isaac Newton, or...," this is name. Nāma-rūpābhyām. Nāma means name, and rūpa means form.

So, so long we are living, our name, our fame, our form, our activities are glorious, very good. And as soon as the life is gone, nobody cares; it is a lump of matter, that's all. Now at the... When one is living, a big man, nobody can go before him or touch him---there are so many guards. But the same man, when he's dead, if he's lying on the floor, if somebody kicks on his face, nobody cares---finished.

So we should understand this, that after the disappearance of the body..., soul, this so-called big name, big fame, important body has no value. And what is that soul? That soul is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore our energy of Kṛṣṇa. So when the energy is withdrawn or Kṛṣṇa is not there, the energy... Kṛṣṇa's energy and Kṛṣṇa is no difference. Śakti-śaktimator abhedaḥ [Brahma-sūtra]. Just like the sun. Sun is the śaktimān, energetic, and the sunshine is the energy. So, so long the sunshine is there, the sun is there. There is no difficulty. When the sun is not there, the sun's energy's also not there. Similarly Kṛṣṇa, so long Kṛṣṇa is within us, within this body...

Kṛṣṇa's energy... There are... Two things are always. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they do not accept the energy. Simply they accept the energetic impersonal. No. We must accept the energy and the energetic, both. Śakti-pariṇāma. Śakti, śakti means energy. By the energy, everything is going on. The energetic is aloof. Just like the sun---we can very easily understand; the example is just before us. The sun is there, the sunshine is there, and within the sun globe there is the sun-god. But we, so-called scientists, we are studying the sun from 93,000,000's of miles away, and we are taking very pride that we are studying the sun. If you have studied sun, why don't you go there? Go there, and enter into the sun planet. This is a material thing. And what to speak of the spiritual thing?

So the sunshine is working because the sun globe is there, the sun-god is there. Similarly, the material energy is working. This cosmic manifestation made of earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and ego... These are the eight ingredients of this material manifestation. So these eight material elements, they are energies, separated energy. Bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā [Bg. 7.14]. And because the energetic is there behind this energy... Just like electric power. We are using electric power, but behind this electric power there is the powerhouse and there is the engineer who is producing the power. The rascals, they do not understand this. They simply see the power. But behind the power there is the power-maker, the source of power. They do not understand it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and says that "I am the power-maker. I am behind this power."

Kṛṣṇa personally comes, because we have no eyes to see Kṛṣṇa, neither we can understand Kṛṣṇa. He therefore comes. What kind...? God, we are simply contemplating God. What is the form of God? God must be very old man. Because He has created millions and millions of years ago, therefore He must be very old man. This is our contemplation. We are going on. Therefore God comes before you = "Here, see what is God." He's so kind. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata [Bg. 4.7]. So God comes here in His person. He leaves behind Him His instruction, just like Bhagavad-gītā. He leaves behind Him His devotees who can explain. But still we are so stubborn, we shall not accept God.

This is the foolishness, mūḍha. They have been called mūḍhāḥ, rascals, fools. God is there; God's energy is there. If you cannot see God, you see God's energy. Just like if you cannot see the electric powerhouse and the engineer who is within the powerhouse generating the power, but you should understand you are using electricity in so many ways. You are using in kitchen, you are using floor cleansing, using your, I mean to say, cleansing, and so many things you are using. Your tape recorder, everything. In your country, especially, everything electrically. So one should inquire---that is intelligence---that wherefrom this electricity's coming.

So if you make research, that is intelligent research. Then you'll find, "Here is the electric powerhouse." Similarly, if you further study that who is running on this powerhouse, you'll find a human being. He's not impersonal; he's person. The electricity is imperson. Even the powerhouse is also imperson. But the man behind the everything, that is a person. Therefore God is person. Logical conclusion. How He can be imperson? Imperson has no brain. The... Just like so many machines now we have invented, very wonderful machines. But the machine is not the brain. The operator is the brain. Why do they not understand?

Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram [Bg. 9.10] = "You are seeing the energy, or the wonderful action and reaction of this material cosmic manifestation. But don't think that they are working independently. No. I am behind there." So where is the difficulty to understand? Or from example you can understand that how things can go on nicely without a nice brain behind these things? It is conclusion. Mayādhyakṣeṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says further, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam avyakta-mūrtinā [Bg. 9.4]. Avyakta.

Avyakta is also mūrti, a form. Just like the sky. The sky is avyakta, not manifest, but it has also a form, a round form, the universe. Without form there is nothing. Everything has form. The so-called impersonal, that is also form. Just like you go to the ocean, you will find a form, a big circle. That is also form. How you can say there is no form?

So this formless, nirviśeṣa... You offer your prayers, nirviśeṣa-śūnyavādi. This is all foolishness. "Zero," "impersonal" is all foolishness. Behind this impersonal feature and so-called zero there is the supreme form. That is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Īśvara means controller. The nature is not controlling. The real controller is Kṛṣṇa. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā, Brahma-saṁhitā says. Prakṛti. Prakṛti is..., the deity is Durgā. So it is said that she is working under the direction of Govinda. How she's working? Just like shadow. You have got your hand, and the shadow is the down. Your hand moves, the shadow moves.

Similarly, the motion is set. This is scientific truth. Behind all this manifestation, the..., there is a motion. And who set up that motion? The last... Yesterday I was giving this example, just like shunting of big, big wagons in the railway line. One engine gives the motion, pushes one wagon, and it pushes other one, kat-kat-kat-kat-kat-kat, like that. You might have seen it. So motion-giver is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise you can give very big, big name or very big, big form and dress, they are all useless. Useless.

That is being explained by Kuntī, that "We are very big. People says we are Pāṇḍavas. Similarly, we have become famous. How? Because You are our friend." Kṛṣṇa is the friend of the Pāṇḍavas. Kṛṣṇa is the friend of Arjuna specifically. Therefore Arjuna is so great warrior. He has got gigantic vigor. So Kṛṣṇa..., Kuntī is... Kuntī knows that "What is the value of my sons, Pāṇḍava? They are saying, 'Oh, Pāṇḍavas are so big warriors and heroes.' " Similarly, yadubhiḥ. Yadubhiḥ.

Kṛṣṇa took birth in the Yadu dynasty. That is already explained. So Kṛṣṇa has made famous the Yadu dynasty because He took His birth in that family. Therefore two words are used here = yadubhiḥ saha pāṇḍavāḥ. The Pāṇḍavas are famous, and Yadu dynasty is also famous. Ke vayam. "What we are? What is our value?" Ke vayaṁ nāma-rūpābhyām [SB 1.8.38] = "Simply a so-called name and so-called form. Otherwise, without You, it is all useless. It has no value." Ke vayam.

So people do not understand this. He's very proud of having a nice body and nice name. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am German." So what is this German, American, Indian? A bogus name and bogus form, that's all. It has no value. Just make Kṛṣṇa minus, everything is zero, finished. This is fact. But people are so rascal, they do not understand this fact. Who can deny it? If the body, the American body or Indian body, or good name and big name, it has no consciousness, then what is the value? No value. Therefore it is said that,

jātiḥ japas tapaḥ kriyā
aprāṇasya hi dehasya
maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam

[Hari-bhakti-sudhodaya 3.11]

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means... Consciousness is there. But this consciousness, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have forgotten Kṛṣṇa; therefore we simply say "consciousness." Really consciousness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because without Kṛṣṇa, you cannot have consciousness. Therefore the right name is "Kṛṣṇa consciousness," not "consciousness." Right name is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like without sun how there can be sunshine? Therefore we say "sunshine," not "shine." Sunshine.

Therefore as soon as there is consciousness, it must be Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If one makes Kṛṣṇa minus, he's a rascal. He's a rascal. Consciousness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Shining means sunshine. The sunshine means without sun, how there can be sunshine? Similarly, consciousness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Without Kṛṣṇa, how there can be consciousness? How it can be Kṛṣṇa consciousness? This requires a little brain to understand.

So the devotees, they have got brain. They understand. Just like Kuntī = "What is the value of our... We are so big, big men, Pāṇḍavas, Yadus. What is the value?" Therefore he [she] admits, ke vayaṁ nāma-rūpābhyām [SB 1.8.38] = "Simply big name and big form, it has no value." Bhavataḥ adarśanam. Because Kṛṣṇa was taking farewell, parting. So regretting, Kuntī regretted that "You will go. So we cannot see You. That if we cannot see You, then what is the value of our name, fame?"

This is... She's lamenting. Bhavataḥ a..., yarhi hṛṣīkāṇām iva īśituḥ. It is exactly like the senses. Now we are after sense enjoyment. This material world means sense enjoyment. But without Kṛṣṇa or without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no possibility of sense enjoyment. The senses are there. You have got big hands, big legs, and everything big, big. But when there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even you cannot utilize these.

Hṛṣīkāṇām. Hṛṣīka means senses. Therefore intelligent person, he knows that "My senses without Kṛṣṇa has no value." That is devotee. "Therefore so long my senses are active, it may be used for Kṛṣṇa." That is bhakti. Right conclusion. Because without Kṛṣṇa, these senses have no value. Therefore there is some intimate relationship with my senses and Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Because without Kṛṣṇa, what is the value of your senses?

Therefore it is the duty of everyone to use the senses for Kṛṣṇa. Just like the property of somebody should be used for him, not for others. I have given this example many times. Perhaps you may remember. Suppose here is the assembly, and there is one hundred dollar note is there, fallen from somebody's pocket. So if I take or you take the hundred dollar note and put your in the pocket, "Here is a hundred dollar note," then you are a thief, because that hundred dollar note does not belong to you. You are taking it without his information. That means you are a thief. This is called bhoga, enjoyment. And another is tyāga. One thinks, "Oh, why shall I touch it? Somebody's... Let it remain there. I have no..., nothing to do." This is called tyāga, giving up.

So the hundred dollar note is the same. One is trying to enjoy it, and one is trying to give it up = "I don't care for it." So both of them are fools, bhogī and tyāgī. Bhogī means the karmīs. The karmīs, those who are working very hard, utilizing... The scientists are utilizing the resources, material resources. That means all are making policy how to steal that note. That is their policy, the karmīs. And another, while he was unable to steal, he says, "Oh, grapes are sour. There is no need of..." That is tyāgī.

So both the bhogīs and tyāgīs, two classes of men, you'll find. Mostly they're bhogīs. They're trying to enjoy anything for his sense gratification utility. And another, when he's baffled, he says, "No, no, we don't require it." Similarly, the same example = If one takes that note and says, "Somebody has lost his hundred dollar note, sir," so one who has really hundred doll..., he says, "Yes, yes. I had..." And if you deliver to him, that is real service.

To give up that note or to take that note, both is useless. So similarly karmī and tyāgī, bhogī and tyāgī, they're all useless. And bhakta, devotees, they know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa; now it should be offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is real service. The same example = You take the hundred note and you ask, "To whom this hundred dollar note belongs?" If you give him, that's a great service. That man becomes very much pleased upon you = "Oh, you are so nice."

So similarly, this everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What is this body? This body, material elements = earth, water, fire, air; and then within the body, subtle psychological = mind, intelligence, ego. So Kṛṣṇa claims, "All these eight elements are My separated energy." Then where is your body, your mind? You cannot..., you do not know even how this body is working. Although I am claiming, "This is my body..." Take, for example, just you are a tenant in an apartment. You are getting all supplies. But you do not know that how these, I mean to say, tap water is working, fire is working. You do not know. But you pay rent, or somehow or other, you have occupied the apartment; you are utilizing. Similarly, we are utilizing this body. But this body does not belong to me; it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is real fact.

So this body means senses. Therefore senses also belong to Kṛṣṇa, mind also belong to Kṛṣṇa---everything I have got. I am a spirit soul. I have given the opportunity to utilize a certain type of body because I wanted it. Kṛṣṇa has given me. Kṛṣṇa is so kind. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. If you want a body of a king, Kṛṣṇa will give you. You do the prescribed method; you, you get a body of a king. And if you want the body of a hog, to eat stool, Kṛṣṇa will give you.

So Kṛṣṇa is giving you the body. So now in the human form of life, one should understand that "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So why I am hankering after satisfying my so-called body? Rather, I have got now the senses and the body. Let me serve Kṛṣṇa." That is intelligence. That is bhakti. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Here is the hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka word is... Hṛṣīkāṇām iva īśituḥ. Hṛṣīkāṇām Hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means the senses. The senses actually belong to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa's name is Hṛṣīkeśa. Another name is Kṛṣṇa..., you know, Hṛṣīkeśa. Tvayā hṛṣīkeṣeṇa hṛdi sthitasya yathā karomi.

So hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means senses. These senses have no value without Kṛṣṇa. Therefore natural conclusion is the senses belongs to Kṛṣṇa. But I wanted some sense gratification; therefore Kṛṣṇa has given us some facility. But everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That when I forget that actually everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, I have been given some facility... That's all. So much. So when I have got this facility, why not utilize all these facilities for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction? That is called bhakti.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. [end]