Morning Walk , Berkeley , 1972-10-08
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Morning walk, October 8! Berkeley. [break]
Devotee (1): Love of God is first class.
Prabhupāda: But where is the love of God you can teach the same thing---one pound of sugar in the ocean. Where is the love of God?
Devotee (1): But simply because thousands and thousands of so-called Christians are fallen that doesn’t mean that Christ’s teachings are un-bonafide.
Prabhupāda: Why not. Christ does not teach bona... unbona-fide. But the principles are not so strong. Why Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. In that way in every religion you’ll find something little good but where is the accept? Accept and this, phalena paricīyate if the result is nice, the result is not[?] nice. You cannot judge by one or two cases you have to take the version, version complete.
Devotee (1): At the time of Śrīla Bhaktivinode Ṭhākura similarly there were very few who were following Lord Caitanya’s teachings so in all intents that was also.
Prabhupāda: So therefore it was known as bogus.
Devotee (1): But it was in essence that.
Prabhupāda: In essence that may be but at the present moment.
Devotee (1): At the present moment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People used to say this Vaiṣṇava religion is bogus. Vivekananda remarked that it is a religion of sex.
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So phalena paricīyate. You have to consider the case, suppose a man was very good now he has stolen something still he is a good man? Present consideration is the judgement... There is a Bengali proverb that seven generations before my forefathers used to eat ghee, ghee butter so still I got this smell.
Devotee (1): Hm.
Prabhupāda: Seven generations before my forefathers used to eat ghee so therefore that smell is still there in my house. Is that very good argument?
Devotee (1): No.
Prabhupāda: Then what ghee you are eating now? What is this?
Karandhara: [indistinct] playground.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Your business is to take Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, that’s all. If you are at all serious.
Devotee (1): I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm? [break] Why Karāndhara, Karāndhara understands you do not understand? Why? Why you did not try to understand?
Devotee (1): The English I have understood.
Prabhupāda: No even Sanskrit he immediately understood. Even this these we are repeatedly speaking. That is our system, repeatedly we are speaking... every meeting.
Devotee (1): Must I learn Sanskrit to understand.
Prabhupāda: Why Sanskrit he doesn’t. He is not a Sanskrit scholar but he knows because he’s heard it. You did not hear it properly. That is the difference... He is also a family man, why there is difference between you and him? Because you did not hear, he heard, that is the difference... I think you joined this movement before Karāndhara?
Devotee (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then why? Why you did not, that means you did not hear attentively and our first principle is hearing, śravaṇam. You do not hear properly therefore you are hesitant you sometimes go away, after some. Now you try to hear. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very simple. Just like yesterday I was explaining, last night parāṇi āhuḥ [Bg. 3.42] in the second, second chapter of first Canto, kṛṣṇa-sampraśnaḥ [SB 1.2.5] where is Pradyumna?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He has not come.
Prabhupāda: Not come.
Devotee (1): What you’re reading last night Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No that is another verse. But our... is that everyone should be given chance to hear about Kṛṣṇa then everything will be all right. One should hear properly about Kṛṣṇa and everyone should be given chance to hear about Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (1): When we spoke with Bhakti Bernhard, Professor Bernhard in Hamburg he appreciated very much the instructions that you gave on the Bhagavad-gītā but in regards to the 10th Canto it was that alone that.
Devotee (1): It was that, those Cantos in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the 10th Canto and the Kṛṣṇa Books.
Devotee (1): When he read those he was very much perturbed.
Devotee (1): Because he could not... he could understand the principles of Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Then yes certainly, he could not understand.
Devotee (1): But the 10th Canto was in his words, "too fantastic."
Prabhupāda: But he is himself fantastic. What is his work?
Prabhupāda: What is his work? We don’t do any work being any Doctor this or that. Just like the day before yesterday at the professors meeting they were all big, big professors I was talking nonsense.
Devotee (1): You?
Prabhupāda: voting[?] yes, all this voters[?] are nonsense but they are also voters[?].
Prabhupāda: What this Doctor Bernhard, vidhi-mahendrādiś ca kīṭāyate [Caitanya-candrāmṛta] the only Kṛṣṇa conscious person he doesn’t care even for Lord Brahma or the King of heaven Indra. What this Doctor Bernhard has to say[?]
Devotee (1): You know why don’t we go into very extensively describe your activities?
Prabhupāda: Just to teach them these rascals so they will understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Not for their favour. Our propaganda is not to learn from anything, anyone but to teach everyone. We should be so strong that we can teach everyone you haven’t got to learn anything.
Devotee (1): Wouldn’t it be hypocritical if I began to teach something.
Prabhupāda: No, you learn first of all you do not hear, that is my charge. You did not hear so how can you teach?
Devotee (1): Generally I was put in charge as temple authority and had to explain things in the Kṛṣṇa Book that no one could. That I could not believe, so how can I learn if I cannot have faith.
Prabhupāda: Because you could not believe therefore you left. Others are doing nicely in the temple. The same post is there, Hansadutta. Now there are some attacks from other camps Hansadutta defeated them, Karāndhara says.
Devotee (2): Due to the book sales Kṛṣṇa is starting to come over as a challenge [indistinct]...[pause]
Prabhupāda: The lake is. The lake is filthy?
Devotee (2): We can go back.
Prabhupāda: Oh... What for this? [indistinct]
Devotee (2): Trash, it’s for [ringing metallic noise] it’s trash it’s [indistinct].
Devotee (3): What is the top for?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes, I’m asking what is the top?
Karāndhara: It keeps the rain out it keeps the paper from blowing away.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Devotee (3): [Loud] Hare Krishna Hare Krishna.
Prabhupāda: [break] Australia they are persecuting our men, do you know that?
Devotee (1): Persecuting?
Prabhupāda: Yes so many are put into jail.
Devotee (1): They were all?
Prabhupāda: What is their fault? Because they are preaching God consciousness, the same thing is there. They are being forced to eat meat.
Devotee (1): Who?
Prabhupāda: Our men.
Devotee (1): In jail?
Prabhupāda: In jail yes. And they are starving.
Devotee (1): Upendra?
Prabhupāda: Yes and there are others, they are starving 3- 4 days. And they are criticising the Hare Krishna people are creating disturbance. What disturbance? And one gentleman has written protesting all this that, "they are the first-class men in the world. So peaceful, so nice, so smiling."Yes, you have read that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But there are still persons... In London we wanted to purchase a church. "No." The whole Church of England had a resolution[?], "no don’t give them anything."
Karāndhara: [indistinct] burn down because of.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Who is that the Church of.
Prabhupāda: One priest said, "we shall better burn down this church instead of selling to you."
Chandanācārya: The Queen is the head of the Church of England.
Devotee (1): No a figurehead. They have bishop...[Bird noises] zoo, that’s bird cages..
Chandanācārya: That’s birds..
Devotee (1): Would you like to see? The birds.
Prabhupāda: We shall go on?
Chandanācārya: [indistinct] Let me check.
Karāndhara: Ride a little train that goes around the park.
Chandanācārya: They wait here to ride for a guide, a touring train that goes around the park.
Prabhupāda: Oh! A station.
Chandanācārya: Yes, a station. [laughs]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Children.
Prabhupāda: But where is the line?
Devotee (1): It’s right here the train probably pulls up right along there. [indistinct].
Devotee (3): Oh it’s not here.
Prabhupāda: Do not enter.
Chandanācārya: [laughs] beware of dog.
Prabhupāda: Hare Krishna.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: [indistinct]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ah. In Calcutta there is a lake like this...[break] King[?] Vedānta you know that? But because they are animal eaters we don’t care for it. We don’t give them any credit.
Devotee (3): It’s hypocritical.
Prabhupāda: Yes, any religion eating meat it is immediately should be rejected.
Devotee (3): That’s for all [laughs].
Devotee (1): Adolf Hitler was vegetarian.
Devotee (1): Adolf Hitler was vegetarian.
Devotee (1): Adolf Hitler.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hitler.
Prabhupāda: Ah. He is a good man.
Devotee (1): Oh!
Prabhupāda: Therefore he did not drop the atomic bomb.
Devotee (1): Yes I agree.
Prabhupāda: Your Truman dropped.
Devotee (1): Not my Truman.
Prabhupāda: Yes your Truman your president.
Devotee (1): I’m not American.
Prabhupāda: He hesitated, therefore I don’t believe that he killed so many Jews in concentration camps.
Devotee (1): But actually Hitler he was trying to invent the atom bomb, the Americans invented it before before Tru. The Americans invented it before the Nazis did.
Prabhupāda: No, no the Americans stolen.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The German Germans invented the atomic. The Germans first.
Devotee (1): [indistinct] they had the plan but they could not invent it.
Prabhupāda: No what they drop dropped in Japan that was German [indistinct] taken [indistinct].
Devotee (1): Nevertheless Hitler did. He bombed London.
Prabhupāda: No he must bomb, it is war if there is war I shall bomb you.
Devotee (1): So is war good?
Prabhupāda: Yes, why not.
Devotee (1): If I’m vegetarian can I.
Prabhupāda: Their vegetarian not cowards. Hanumān is vegetarian he set fire in the Rāvaṇa’s kingdom.
Devotee (1): Is Hitler another.
Prabhupāda: Arjuna was vegetarian.
Devotee (1): Is Hitler another Hanumān?
Prabhupāda: Why you drag like that? Vegetarian does not mean to become coward.
Devotee (1): That I understand.
Prabhupāda: That... Try to understand. Why do you say because you are vegetarian you shall not fight.
Devotee (1): No simply the fact that you said that veg. That meat eaters are. If one is a meat eater then all religions are.
Prabhupāda: No meat eaters. That is another point of view, meat eaters we think are not even human beings. These are less than animals. Less than cats and dogs. That is the point. The cats and dogs they eat meat. Arjuna was hesitating to fight from another constitution not that he was a coward. So don’t think that Vaiṣṇava’s are cowards.
Devotee (1): No I don’t think that. But what is.
Prabhupāda: When there is need of war they must fight.
Devotee (1): I understand the principle of that---how can I serve God if I slaughter His, His fellow human beings, animals that I understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes this is the.
Devotee (1): But at the same time being vegetarian does not make myself God conscious.
Prabhupāda: No that we don’t say then we would have accepted all vegetarian Kṛṣṇa conscious, we don’t say that. There are so many Gujarati’s, Marwaris who are strictly vegetarian. We don’t accept them they are good devotees.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like the person who had very nice.
Prabhupāda: This is, this is the general confusion a devotee cannot kill. He will hesitate, why shall I kill? That is devotee that is a symptom of... but when there is need of killing he will kill. That is another thing. But unnecessarily for his satisfaction of his tongue he will never kill.
Just like the law is to kill a human being is murder that is human but if somebody attacks me I kill him that is not murder. That is not murder. So devotee means for his personal sense gratification he will never kill but when there is reason he must kill, that is another thing. [pause] [break] Passing to some slaughterhouse, where is that?
Chandanācārya: That is near the Bay.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So obnoxious smell. It is for miles [indistinct] that smell. So these civilised people they are maintaining such big slaughterhouse in a country where so many nice things are available, milk fruit grains milk products, so many nice things. What is the use of maintaining? And who is maintaining that? Unnecessary. Vitamins only[?]
Devotee (1): Prabhupada this week you also said that, what is the use if all our. If I am proud if we are vegetarian but yet even within that.
Prabhupāda: It is not a question of vegetarian it is a question of [indistinct]
Devotee (1): That I understand but I am. We appreciate the same stand of nonviolence to the animals at the same time if we. If there is so hate amongst Godbrothers themselves.
Prabhupāda: That is the misfortunate Godbrother. There are so many Godbrothers they are not disturbed but if one is disturbed that means he is unfortunate. That is the [indistinct]. They are living with Godbrothers they are not disturbed but if one is disturbed then he is to be understood that he is unfortunate, that is the position. Disturbance there must be as soon as there is more than one man but why should I be disturbed? So many letters are coming daily I should have retired but I am taking fight for this disturbance. It is a mission.
Devotee (1): That is the main reason why [indistinct]. Because he could not.
Prabhupāda: Well he is unfortunate that boy. It should be considered that he is unfortunate.
Devotee (1): It was from the society itself that he received such ah..
Prabhupāda: Well one man goes away therefore the society cannot be blamed... Both of you, you went to Christian camp? But if you could not, I mean to say, cope with your Godbrothers? What did you not. Keep aloof and keep yourself as Vaiṣṇava’s. What did you go to take shelter of another? That means you condemned Vaiṣṇavism that is not good of you. The same thing which [indistinct]. The same thing because one man is bad as soon as I condemned Christianism you’re argument is bad.
Devotee (1): Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Similarly you caught... you saw some Godbrothers who are teaching that you condemn this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you’re going to teach that. The same thing.
Devotee (1): Then we are both using the same argument.
Prabhupāda: Yes because you are the same.
Prabhupāda: I mean to say your argument is not very strong you adopted the same way.
Devotee (1): Yeah. That is true.
Prabhupāda: That’s all.
Devotee (1): So what is that if one is standing in the middle then one sees so much violence on both sides.
Prabhupāda: Yes there must be because it is in the platform. It is a platform which is māyā just like if you are on the ocean the boat is tilted you should not be disturbed you must go on nicely---lie on the boat, "oh it is tiltering now let me go away." What is this? There is a poem by cow. Cowper.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cowper?
Prabhupāda: Yes. "England with all thy faults I love you," that is love.
Devotee (1): Blind
Devotee (1): Blind
Prabhupāda: Love is blind. If there is love it must be blind otherwise it is not love. Love cannot be conditional.
Devotee (1): Hm.
Prabhupāda: That is not love. That is business. If I find some opportunity then I love... this is business. This is not love.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The gopīs loved Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Love must be blind. Without any profit that is love. It may be wrong but love means blind love. Others may see that it is wrong but the definition of love must be blind. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches us, what is that? "In all conditions."
Devotee (2): "You can step on me."
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā yathā tathā--- whatever you like, whatever you like you can do but still you are my worshipable--- this is love. Not that I want some reciprocation---that is business.
Devotee (1): There is nothing else in the material world everyone is.
Prabhupāda: Ah yea it may not be possible in the material world but that is the idea of love.
Devotee (1): Yes I understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes this is the idea of love... So today the same thing is going on. Eh?
Śrutakīrti: It’s the same one.
Prabhupāda: Oh... Yesterday, yesterday I saw Jayānanda... the fairy land of the adults. [laughs] What is that?
Prabhupāda: This is fairly land of children and that is fairy land of the adults. The children they play whole day and night they do not know that they have got responsibilities in future. Similarly these persons who have no responsibility what is going to happen after death and enjoying the skyscraper buildings and that is fairy land of the adults. They have no responsibility therefore they are killing.
They think, "Ah, what is this nonsense, I’ve seen as soon as the body is finished everything is finished. Who is going to?" Exactly like the children. They want, they like to play they do not like to go to school, read books that is fairy land. Similarly these people they do not want to learn what is the value of life simply immediately, "eat drink be merry and enjoy sex."
Cārvāka atheism = ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet, everything was there. The atheist class philosophers was also there in Āryan civilisation with this Cārvāka Muni. His theory was that so long you live, you live happily, ghee, you eat ghee more and more. But ghee is the basic principle of enjoyment, some of you don’t know [laughs] that. Again[?] that meat is enjoyment. We used to prepare so many nice preparations from ghee so, ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet yāvaj jīvet sukhaṁ jīvet. In India also luxury food means ghee.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: With ghee so many preparations.
Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is [indistinct] when we get this ghee.
Devotee (2): At 50 cents a pound we get ghee.
Devotee (3): Did you tell them.
Devotee (2): Not yet.
Devotee (3): 50 cents!
Devotee (2): One dairy yeah 50 cents a pound to buy ghee. They don’t think it’s so valuable they just.
Devotee (1): Well they use it for cooking.
Devotee (2): Think it’s like butter and they boil it down and purify it and just sell it to these bakers and use it in their bread pans.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes they use the margarine more than the ghee. Because they are afraid.
Devotee (4): Not [indistinct]
Devotee (1): In Germany also we also used to buy ghee, because it is cheaper than regular butter because they took all the salt out of it and because they thought it has no taste and therefore, "well we don’t use." So it’s cheaper.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: [laughs]
Devotee (1): So we used to buy pounds and pounds of it. In Germany there was once a butter surplus. There were so many cows and producing so much milk and so much butter.
Prabhupāda: Any. That the nature is supplying food but we do not take care of it. Nature is supplying sufficient grains, sufficient fruits, sufficient ghee. Why you should maintain slaughterhouse? They have no brain, so dull.
Karāndhara: In Hawaii during the mango season everywhere you go mangoes are lying all over the ground.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Karāndhara: And no one eats them. Just like ghee. Everyone’s front yard is covered with mangoes.
Prabhupāda: Nature is supplying so much food but they won’t take it.
Devotee (1): The Germans what they did was there was so much surplus of butter so they would slaughter the cow’s because they had too much butter they made too much so they killed them. Thousands and thousands---that’s the Germans. Well?
Prabhupāda: Just see they are refusing the natural food. Kṛṣṇa has sent so many cows get milk, butter. Kṛṣṇa is personally teaching as a cowherd boy and He’s stealing butter.
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness and they, "oh we’ve got so much butter--- kill all the cows."Just see what kind of civilisation? Mūḍhāḥ they have been described as mūḍhāḥ, all rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. So learn all this Bhagavad-gītā everything is there.
[car doors closing] [end]