Morning Walk , Berkeley , 1972-10-07
[Car door closing]
Jayatīrtha: Hour... on the hour or so.
Jayatīrtha: There are flights leaving for San Francisco every hour on the hour.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It’s about 40 minutes from here?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, 45 minutes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda during the solar or lunar eclipse we observe fasting and then rituals. So what is the... Real significance meaning?
Prabhupāda: We take all of these arrangements for remembering God. So, fasting means during the eclipse period maybe the food becomes polluted so better not to be eaten. It is to be understood that it becomes polluted. What your science says?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science won’t say anything. Science would just completely neglect because it’s just a settle[?] of the.. Because it just so happens that when you let in motions of these planetary systems it just so happened that they are in the same line, by chance. So it is just settle[?]. So they just completely neglect any significance.
Jayatīrtha: [indistinct] of the statement that there is only one guru and that guru is coming in many different forms. I don’t quite understand it.
Prabhupāda: One guru is Kṛṣṇa and many representatives coming. One business house but there are many salesmen.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are expansions of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. [Chanting japa]... The system is how to give the living entities liberation from this material bondage that is the objective but the modern so-called scientific world they do not know what is the meaning. The meaning of liberation.
Prabhupāda: They are completely in darkness, "what is the meaning of this liberation?" Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. They are. The living entity is transmigrating from different types of bodies and coming to human consciousness and on account of developed consciousness God has given them all this Vedic information they should take advantage and should understand what is his position and then make further development. That is the aim of human life but the so-called science means.
Human life means developed consciousness for enjoying senses, that’s all---which is the business of the animals. They think that from bullock cart to motorcar is scientific advancement. From lying down on the ground to lie down on a high skyscraper building in a nice bed---that is advancement. This is the defect---or if a man is drowned if one can save his shirt and coat that is benefit. The man may go to hell but he got his shirt and coat is saved and they think it is now saved. This is their knowledge, bahir-artha-māninaḥ.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sure. So the principle is.
Prabhupāda: They are concerned with the outward body that’s all, shirt and coat civilisation. But actually in the Western countries there is the system, inside they are unclean they won’t take bath there are so many perspiration’s, germs. Outside clean coats and shirt, is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh yes.
Prabhupāda: That’s all. Inside the body unclean, or. Skin they are unclean suffering from so many skin diseases.
Jayatīrtha: In England the system is to take bath only once a week.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes they take only once a month.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually I knew some friend of mine.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They take bath only sometimes once a month or. They never take bath. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: In India especially, the Europeans, I know, after four days all the coats and shirts becomes full of germs, I mean to say these bugs. Due to bad perspiration. They cannot. Therefore it must be changed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But some time ago there was an article by a medical doctor in Los Angeles Times. Saying that the Americans take too many. Bath’s too many times so they have skin disease. [laughs] I was so surprised to see that written by a medical doctor. He doesn’t know anything but he is a doctor.
Prabhupāda: That is our first concern because these fools and rascals they are made leaders therefore the society has fallen for this.
Jayatīrtha: The Christian church they don’t teach about liberation. [indistinct] it teaches salvation at the end of their life when they become saved go to heaven. But, nowadays no one even cares for the idea of salvation.
Prabhupāda: That is bogus statement. What is this? How long it will go you cannot put on bogus things for many days. They do not know what is the science---of life. All dogmas they talk, religion, no philosophy no science. Therefore it is dead religion, advanced people they do not care for all these nonsense bogus. Anything which is not Vedic that is bogus.
Because it is not based on scientific knowledge, actually vijñānam, yad vijñāna-samanvitam [SB 2.9.31] jñānaṁ means---parama-guhyaṁ me yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Therefore they say, "we believe," and belief can be changed, so change also. Even the common men abides with the change. We don’t give any orders to believe we want substantial scientific truth.
Jayatīrtha: According to history there have been so many different beliefs they can’t.
Jayatīrtha: In the course of history.
Jayatīrtha: There have been so many beliefs that have come and gone.
Prabhupāda: Yes belief means that it changes.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. Like the Egyptians they used to believe that the sun was born in the morning and died every evening.
Prabhupāda: No why Christians used to believe that this world is square? Is it not?
Prabhupāda: So their all believes means that it is bogus. [Chanting japa] [break]. On the statement of perfect source of knowledge that belief is there. That is called āśritam, firm faith in the Vedas. [indistinct] by the law of gravitation?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They put in so many other. So that is experimented? Law of gravitation?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the relative distances between two objects.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the law of gravitation says, "the force acting between the two objects is proportionate to the product of the two masses divided by the square of the distance." So. "And that proportionality is equally a constant. That constant is universal that is called the gravitational constant." It is a number which binds these relative motions within two objects. So any two objects will have this gravitational effect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You disagree with me just now of course. Within two objects.
Prabhupāda: In a laboratory these forces of two objects.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They have been put into the space.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes I think they have done in. By measuring the balance also only in the discovery of this gravitational theory and they have found that the number is a constant within the limits of their experimentation.
Prabhupāda: So they cannot make any planet under this gravitation hanging in the space?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot make that [laughs] gigantic job but they can make sputnik’s flying.
Prabhupāda: That is by machine, they are not standing. So long the machine is working it is all right otherwise fall down. What is the use? That is not gravitation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No say for example when [laughs] the sputnik’s go out of the gravitational force of the earth then they all come down even without a machine it will just circle around without.. Because the change from the gravitational force of the earth. So when they circle, it’s what they call the integrate that means from the earth’s gravitational force up to the moon’s gravitational force. So when the spaceship enters into the moon’s gravitational.
Prabhupāda: Now I want to see that you make a planet like the sun or moon so that at night it will hang.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no need of so many electrical light. Why do they not do it? Eh?
Jayatīrtha: That sounds like a very good idea [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: At least let them make a small sun or moon the problem of life will be solved. What is the use of talking?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But ultimately these machines are made out of this. All these metals so they will be disintegrated because of the solar heat they will not last long even if they fly. They cannot last forever it is very temporary.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they are made by these temporary objects.
Prabhupāda: Sun and moon is also made of temporary objects.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No sun and moon are apparent[?]
Prabhupāda: Sun apparent[?] may... There are five elements, earth water fire air ether, only these. Just like this earth is made the whole material cosmic manifestation is made of five elements, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ [Bg. 7.4]. There is no other than these five elements. So some psychologist is coming?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Today?
Śrutakīrti: A psychologist is coming today yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I had heard, is it in the morning?
Śrutakīrti: Yes this morning.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What time?
Śrutakīrti: I think mentioned 9.30 yes, a few of them. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: Why they are interested to come?
Śrutakīrti: That girl that comes to the temple got the engagement, she talked with them.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Any inquisitive souls would like to know something more.
Prabhupāda: Yeah that’s so. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, jijñāsu they are called jijñāsu and for jijñāsu a spiritual master is required. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥśreyam uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. For jijñāsu, for the inquisitive a spiritual master is required... What is the time now?
Jayatīrtha: Fifteen minutes to seven.
Prabhupāda: [japa] [break] advancement, undoubtedly India is the best place. Still even in such fallen condition as India this is the best place for spiritual advancement.
Jayatīrtha: Māyāpura and Vṛndāvana are very spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Śrī-gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi jebā jāne cintāmaṇi tāra haya braja-bhūme vāsa [Sāvaraṇa-Gaura-mahimā] gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi vāsa.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Māyāpura Śrīla Prabhupāda is it how far from Calcutta?
Prabhupāda: About 60. 60.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in Navadvīpa?
Prabhupāda: Yes Navadvīpa, Navadvīpa area. One of the portions of Navadvīpa. Navadvīpa means nine islands and Māyāpura is one of them.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah... One of [indistinct] is from Navadvīpa in Calcutta at [indistinct]. So he used to tell me because there was one doctor Chakravarty, Minoj[?] Chakravarty department. So.
Prabhupāda: Navadvīpa is a place for learned scholars from a very old time. Very big big learned scholars just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s grandfather Nīlāmbara Cakravartī. He was a great scholar and Caitanya Mahāprabhu’s father came to learn from him and became a student and he was better man than his daughter.
Jayatīrtha: [indistinct] established that Māyāpura and Vṛndāvana [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: Oh yes he has already established, now it can be seen, at least 100 students.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, that arrangement is there. 100 students he can accommodate very easily and therefore I am purchasing this house. If there is no income then this rent of this house will maintain you. The rents are a quarter now and if there is no income so I shall maintain them from this rent---this is the idea. Take prasādam a little and chant Hare Krishna. But don’t impregnate.
Jayatīrtha: But don’t what?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What? What is. What is. What does that mean Śrīla Prabhupāda? Impregnate?
Prabhupāda: [laughs] That [indistinct] can explain.
Prabhupāda: How to do this business...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: Remembering Kṛṣṇa is the highest pleasure.
Prabhupāda: Yes unless one comes to that platform then this impregnating business will go on, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. In the material world this sex life is the centre of all activities. If there was no sex life all these rascals would not have worked so hard. All big big scientists, philosophers, businessmen and they are simply working on the five working senses, just like that, nothing more.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are some historical reports on this big scientist. Like for example Pasteur.
Prabhupāda: Historical? You’ve seen Śiva-liṅgam? Worship Śiva-liṅgam?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The bhajana of Pārvatī and the genital of Śiva--- Śiva-liṅgam.
Jayatīrtha: I’ve wondered about that, how is that.
Prabhupāda: That is the material world creation. The beginning of creation is on that basis bhajana and the genital that is all.
Jayatīrtha: People worship that?
Prabhupāda: Yes they are worshipping. Practically---all their activities are centred there, they are worshipping. We shall go now?
Jayatīrtha: I think soon.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah. This [break] male[?] he was so busy with his experiments by the time he was trying to find out how the germs, bacteria were coming out from milk and trying to find out other chemical means to find out and he forgot his marriage because he was so much busy with his work [laughs] so a friend of him [laughs] came to him..
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Came to him, yes "today is their marriage so you should come from the laboratory," so he was taken from his laboratory [laughs] he forgot his own marriage and everything. So there are some scientists who they call, "mad." Because they just don’t care for anything else except their scientific research...
Prabhupāda: [indistinct]. Proverb---a man is known by his company.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Hm.
Prabhupāda: So here in the Western countries they keep company with dog, so it is to be understood that he also has got a dog’s mentality. Most people they keep dogs.
Prabhupāda: They say it is the best company, best friend.
Jayatīrtha: Their sporting propensity is almost the same. They play in almost the same way like with dogs they always play with sticks and balls also humans beings they play baseball with stick and ball and such like. [indistinct]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: After the rain in Los Angeles it is very nice. There was a smog all day chemical coming out of the exhausts was washed away by the rain so it becomes clear. [break] fill up our resources on pollution and exhaustes[?] coming out of the motor exhaust. So they have opened a new department in recent times, last June... in last few years.
Prabhupāda: First of all they create pollution.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then antipollution.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. [laughs]
Prabhupāda: Then again pollution this is their business. Why do you create pollution?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they did this. They didn’t know it was going to be polluted [laughs].
Prabhupāda: Then they are rascals. That means they are rascals.
Prabhupāda: "I did not know," therefore you are rascal.
Prabhupāda: That is our conclusion that you are all rascals. [indistinct] anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no right. He has no right. He cannot have any good qualities that is our test.
Devotee: Hare Krishna.
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult for us.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is very nice here in Berkeley.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is very nice here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So last night these professors were satisfied?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh yes I talked with the Professor Staal after the lecture.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And asked him about how does he thinks about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He said he liked very much. Oh Bo[?] his wife is Indian..
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sitting one of the ladies sitting in the front.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ah. Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That was his wife. Then they were talking about Prabhupāda’s, "minimised the needs." So they do not need the expensive of cloths so they were talking about that. So they don’t have to spend money for buying expensive clothes.
Prabhupāda: The present civilisation they are simply wasting time but increasing the artificial necessities of body. There is no need. And they think that if they increase the artificial necessities of the body is advancement of civilisation. Killing the soul---sending the soul to the hell they will lick up this skyscraper building. This is their civilisation, they want to lick up.
Prabhupāda: Just like a dog [laughs]. What benefit do they get licking up the skyscraper building? And sending your soul to hell. Next life he is going to be a cockroach in that house that’s his does not... Suppose. Where from this cockroach is coming? This some of the living entities they are returning to be cockroaches, filthy, filthy life.
Those who like just like the hippies, don’t take bath, don’t wash, don’t change. They are going to be cockroaches that’s all. They do not know this science how they are becoming but in this life as soon as he has got a good car and good apartment. Ah he is so puffed up he doesn’t care even for. He will say, "what is the use of God I have become God now." His wife is also professor or what?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn’t ask about it.
Chandanācārya: I think Śrīla Prabhupāda that when Indian people hear you they feel ashamed.
Prabhupāda: Certainly, because they are giving up this culture.
Prabhupāda: The rascals
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There was another one, he was an Indian professor also. That’s one professor from India.
Prabhupāda: There was an Indian?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He said. He says he studies Buddhism. [indistinct]
Prabhupāda: Why not Kṛṣṇaism? [pause]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The organiser of the lecture yesterday he talked with us up to about 10.30, very late. Because we were talking about some aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you know this meaning of life. He started asking all the philosophy inside Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Later on then he asked.
He told us that they were afraid of asking questions to Śrīla Prabhupāda [laughs] he started asking about the avatāra of the 13 year. [laughs] So he said that. He didn’t put it rightly you know [laughs] he was afraid of. Actually they didn’t ask too many questions just ah...
Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. No books.
Chandanācārya: There are animals there.
Chandanācārya: Like a zoo[?] [Chanting japa]
Śrutakīrti: They all agree with you on that point because all of them were studying books.
Śrutakīrti: They knew books were necessary they’ve all been studying books for years. They had to agree with that.
Prabhupāda: All rascals. But rascals want a leader like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...and they are not serious. "I press your eyes and you see God," that is going on. And these rascals take it easy, "Oh Svāmī Bhaktivedanta asked not to do this, not to do that. It is nothing you press the eyes and I will see Kṛṣṇa." That means they want to be cheated so the cheaters take advantage. Śūdra they have no knowledge, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ [Skanda Purāṇa]
[Chanting japa] Failure[?] and that is adults failure.
Prabhupāda: [Chanting japa]...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the name of this lake? [indistinct]
Chandanācārya: Lake Merritt.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh Lake Merritt.
Prabhupāda: No [indistinct] ...
Chandanācārya: Would you like to see it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. [end]