Morning Walk , Los Angeles , 1972-09-16
Prabhupāda: ...side, very painful. Little, little. A small tree [indistinct; waves crashing on beach in background] Geonkhali, Geonkhali. That place is known as Geonkhali.
Prabhupāda: [Hindi] Near, almost near the sea.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw in an article, Śrīla Prabhupāda, one scientist said... This is a very widely-read paper; it is published to all scientists all over the world. That article says, "Scientists from the unknowable future."
Prabhupāda: What is the idea?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very much worried about the future, all the scientists. So they are saying that in future the energy supply is going to be exhausted. Yes. Food supply and all the activities are going to be very limited, and they say that future is really unknowable; it's not known. It won't be known.
Prabhupāda: It is known to us. It is not known to them. We can see everything. We can speak about the future from Bhāgavata, everything. You can write one article, that "Future is known---this is the future." I'll give you the ideas. What is his name, who has written this article?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This man? This is a general paper, so they don't mention the writer of the... This was... There was a meeting in Philadelphia about few months ago called "American Association for Advancement of Science." So all the scientists all over the world, they come together and discuss topics about several... It is called "Science in the Society," and they discuss several things. The primary concern of most of the scientists is the..., what is going to happen in the future. They always worry about that.
Prabhupāda: What they will help?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they said, so far as the energy supply is concerned, they can hope from three things. One is from the coal and the natural gas supply. They said that is going to end...
Prabhupāda: When you say about natural gas, then where is it guaranteed? Because he is depending on nature. All the supply is from nature. Natural gas, where is the guarantee that natural gas will be supplied always? Where is the guarantee?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is no guarantee.
Prabhupāda: Then? That is another foolishness. They think, future, that every energy is being diminished, supply is diminished. Under the circumstances, how he can put forward another condition of nature to make a solution? This is another foolishness. If I am getting supply from him and he is limiting the supply, how I can expect another supply from him will solve the question? This is another foolishness. If you are dependent on nature, then why you are thinking that this, this will solve?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the second source, they said, from nuclear energy. Like these... So by exploding the atomic bombs there are a lot of energy, er, evolved, and that energy can be utilized for peaceful purpose, for useful purpose.
Prabhupāda: And that is also dependent on nature.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And the third source, ultimately their final hope, is for the solar energy coming from the sun.
Prabhupāda: Solar energy---everything is coming from solar energy. So,
rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ
Solar energy, there is aśeṣa, unlimited temperature. But we know that the solar energy will be so intense that at the end, you scientists will not have to endeavor; you will be finished.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is annihilation?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning of annihilation. First of all the solar energy will be so intense that everything will be burned. For hundred years this energy will simply increase, increase, increase, and everything will be burned into ashes. Then after the solar energy being increased, the all the oceans and all the water will be transformed into clouds. And then there will be rain. And when there will be rain, the whole thing will be water only. That is devastation. This is called pralaya. Pralaya-payodhi jale [Daśāvatāra Stotra 1]. This is... This devastation is periodical. But the last devastation is that even there will be no water.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There will be no water?
Prabhupāda: No, that water will be also evaporated. And gradually it will go to the ultimate source of energy, Viṣṇu.
Karandhara: That's the end of Brahmā's life?
Karandhara: At the end of Brahmā's daytime there is pralaya with the water?
Prabhupāda: That is water full. So we know everything.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientifically it sounds also very reasonable.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientifically... For example, when there is a very strong heat, necessarily the water evaporates.
Karandhara: As soon as it rains, then again things start flowing.
Karandhara: That's scientific.
Prabhupāda: Everything is scientific; they are not bogus. They are real scientific. Here, only speculating. [pause]
[break] Your speculation for solving the problem is useless. Nature will go on with its work. You cannot stop.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We see every day the waves always moving. The force of nature.
Prabhupāda: Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. You cannot stop nature's force. That is not possible. You can simply surrender to God, and He can give you in any circumstance. That is the only way. Pralaya-payodhi-jāle dhṛtavān asi vedaṁ [Daśāvatāra Stotra 1]. [noisy waves]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So all these people spend their time, whole time, in worrying about future.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will worry, and they will be annihilated at the same time. Because they have no shelter. That is the future.
Karandhara: They spend all their time worrying about death, but they don't do anything. They can't stop it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply being worried about death, does it mean that death will be stopped?
Prabhupāda: So why they are wasting their time?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is this...
Prabhupāda: Befooling themselves and befooling others. But you cannot do it. You cannot do anything. Why you are worried? We are not worried. We are confident that everything will happen by nature's course. But we will be saved by Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We are not worried. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9].
If we actually become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then after this body you are going to back to home, back to Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, where there is no question of worry. Vaikuṇṭha---without any worries. Vaikuṇṭha means "without any worries."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda answered yesterday about the why these people worry for future generations.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda answered that the living entity is by nature..., wants to be eternally happy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are encaged in this material body. So we do not know how to find the real happiness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah. At the same time these people are worrying for their generations. Is that also their service?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it also their..., some sort of service?
Prabhupāda: No. No. That is some sort of service, but this service is misled.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they miss the central point.
Prabhupāda: Just like they are trying to give service to stop disease, death, but where is the solution? People are dying; people are being attacked. So they do not know how to give service.
They are proud, they are puffed-up by their paltry scientific knowledge, and they are thinking, "This will solve." So if foolish men try to make a solution of a great problem, that is useless. They do not accept that they are foolish rascal. They cannot do it. That is their fault.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is because they are missing the real central point.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They do not know how to make a solution.
Karandhara: They are cheaters.
Prabhuapda: Yes. Cheaters. Actually they have no knowledge, and they are trying to give knowledge. That is their cheating. They do not admit their imperfectness of knowledge, but they want to give some knowledge, and they are passing on as scientist and philosopher and leaders and getting good, good salary, big salary, making experiment, going to moon planet---simply spoiling money. And poor people are being exacted of the taxes, and they are enjoying life. That's all.
They are practically simply exploiting the innocent people, that's all, by their forward of so-called scientific knowledge and their resources, income. The government is doing that, and government is supporting all this nonsense. And they will not take actual knowledge.
When actual knowledge we want to give, they are not very serious = "Ah, these people are sentimental. We are scientist." Oh, what, scientists, you have done? Nonsense. [laughs] That is their fault. They do not accept their nonsensical theories.
Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "First of all surrender, you rascal. Then talk of knowledge." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ [Bg. 18.66]. Sarva-dharmān means including science, philosophy, all this. Sarva-dharmān: "Surrender. I shall give you all protection."
That they will not. The solution is there, but they will not accept. Here is the solution = Kṛṣṇa says, "I give you protection. You surrender." But this process they will not accept. They will not surrender to God. They will suffer, and their followers will suffer. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās [SB 7.5.31] = blind leader leading other blind men. So how they will get relief? Both the leader and the followers will go to hell. That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that means the right person from whom the real knowledge can be...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...obtained.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Right person means Kṛṣṇa. He is missing Kṛṣṇa. Asuras. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ [Bg. 7.15] = lowest of the mankind, miscreants, rascals and atheist. This class of men will never surrender. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we take them...
They may advertise themselves as very advanced scientist, but we take them = miscreants, rascal, lowest of the mankind and lost of real knowledge. That is our definition for them. Not that unnecessarily we are appeasing them, glorying them. What Kṛṣṇa says, we are simply repeating Kṛṣṇa's words. That's all.
If Kṛṣṇa is authority, if Kṛṣṇa is God, then these four words for them are facts. Because we can see by the symptoms they will never surrender to God; therefore they come to these four categories of men = miscreants, rascals, lowest of the mankind and lost of real knowledge.
Real knowledge, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Let them inquire about the supreme source of everything. That they are neglecting. They cannot answer. Everything "perhaps," "maybe." But here is the supreme source present. He says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate [Bg. 10.8], that the..., ahaṁ asama-agre [SB 2.9.33]. These things they will not accept.
You know that this material nature is subjected to annihilation. We see, just like this body is born at a certain date and it will be finished at a certain date; similarly the whole cosmic body is born at a certain date and it will be finished at a certain date. Why they are bothering? It will be finished. That is the nature.
Anything material you see, it is born, it stays for some times and it is lost. So why they are trying to protect it? What is their power? He is also one of the product of this material nature. His body is also a product of this material nature. So how he can he explain that he can make a solution of this annihilation? That is not possible. My body will be finished, and this finger is a part of the body. So can the finger save the body?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, material nature will be finished. So I am part of material nature. How I can save the material nature? Just see. They have no even common sense. What I am? I am one of the insignificant part of this huge cosmic manifestation. So how can I save? You understand? Tell this rascal scientist.
Say, "What you are? What is your brain? It is a teeny substance within the material creation. The material creation will be lost. So how by your teeny creation of this material world you can save it? What is the value of your brain?" Eh? The vast... Now this sand, and if you take one...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Handful
Prabhupāda: ...handful of, "I'll make it nice," how it can be? They do not understand their teeny position.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But practically the so-called modern world is all guided by these people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore they are called andhā yathāndhair upa... [SB 7.5.31]. They are blind---they have no real knowledge---and they are trying to guide others. They are also blind. They are thinking, "Oh, he has passed M.Sc. He is doctor of science. Oh, he is very big man." [laughter] And they are exploiting them, getting money. But real knowledge is not there.
Everywhere, this way they are cheating people simply. In religious life also. These rascals, "Guru-jī has come. He says there is no need of book; he is self-sufficient," and people are following him. They have no sense that every education is obtained through books. Where is that educated man who has never read a book? But these rascals, they say, "No. There is no need of book." They do not see that what he has done wonderful---except cheating the people.
He remain in the same darkness after meeting these people, and still we say, "Oh, here is God." People have become so lowest degree intelligence. So naturally they are cheated by so-called scientists, so-called religionists, so-called avatāra, so-called philosopher. All people are simply cheated. Simply cheated. My Guru Mahārāja therefore used to say, "The whole society is a combination of cheaters and the cheated."
We are just presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. No cheating. Take it as it is and you will be saved. Why you are worried? Here it is. [getting into car] Actually we are simply trying to save these people.
hari-nāma-mahā-mantra lao tumi māgi'
[Jīv Jāgo from Gītāvalī]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If everybody is Kṛṣṇa conscious, there would be no problem. [break]
Prabhupāda: Not everyone. Even one percent, the leaders. The whole world will be [indistinct] by one percent, a little percent. All the leaders [indistinct]. Just like if presidents, the leaders of the nations... So how many presidents are there? Huh? A few; you can count them there on your finger. The leading people, if they understand thoroughly, then everything will change. Everything will be happy. But they're miscreants, simply maintaining slaughterhouse, and they want to be saved.
The criminal, murderer, wants to be saved. He can save himself by cheating the law of the state, but how he can be saved from the law of God? So all these miscreants, criminals, they are trying to cheat themselves and higher authority, and they want to be saved. Simply wasting time---and getting money. These rascals, they waste their time and others' time. And in exchange they get good money. So why they will not do this business?
Just like he went to a lawyer. He says, "Everyone has got his own opinion." [laughter] Then why he wants to come to you? Why you are lawyer? I have got my opinion. I can say to the court, "This is my opinion." I can speak. Why the need for him? Will it be accepted because it is my opinion? If it is not possible to give my opinion in ordinary laws, how I can give opinion in the ultimate laws, God's law?
Karandhara: The philosophy is even if the opinion is right or wrong, the majority rules. Whoever has the majority opinion...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I was explaining. The majority is dogs, hogs, camel and asses. The majority are like these animals, and if their vote is many, then you are a big dog, saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ [SB 2.3.19]. Therefore their election is another big animal, that's all. Election by these cats, dogs, hogs, camel means another big animal. So what we can expect from the animal? [japa] Vivekananda was telling, in religion everyone has his own opinion = yato mat tato pat. Was it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Swami Vivekananda?
Karandhara: "As many paths, as many ways."
Prabhupāda: Yes. As many paths [indistinct]. But Kṛṣṇa does not say that. Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ: "Only surrender unto Me." He never says. But he became more than Kṛṣṇa, this rascal Vivekananda. That is the difficulty. India is spoiled with this Vivekananda especially. This man spoiled the whole Indian culture. Yato mat tato pat.
The Māyāvādīs, Māyāvādī philosophers are like that. Now they are saying, "Bhaktivedanta Swami simply stresses on Kṛṣṇa. He is spoiling the Hindu dharma." That is their propaganda. Yes. Because I am stressing on Kṛṣṇa, so they take it otherwise, that "He is spoiling Hindu dharma."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in India, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the opinion of the so-called Indians?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Indians, the so-called. There are many sannyāsīs, they are saying recently in Hyderabad they are saying. They have not taken my name; they have taken this "Europeans, American Vaiṣṇavas, Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they are spoiling Hindu religion." And somebody said, "Unfortunately, their leader is an Indian."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, really?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they are very envious. Because they are completely envious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are envious. So in India there are my enemies. In this country also, there are my enemies. Simply Kṛṣṇa is protecting. But I don't find any protest from this country. Was there anyone else?
Karandhara: [indistinct] intelligent class.
Prabhupāda: In Hyderabad there was protest in support of, by [indistinct].
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But why does Kṛṣṇa [indistinct] success...? Why does Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is my only hope. Otherwise how I can declare this war alone against all svāmīs, all yogīs, all pseudo-religionists, all politicians, all leaders, all scientist? So our business is to protest against all of them. What is this business? Very unhappy, hard task. My Guru Mahārāja did it. And my Godbrother supported that I am killing Hinduism also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh.
Prabhupāda: He has mentioned that here the Gauḍīya-sampradāya, they also say that these people are spoiling.
Karandhara: This man, Mr. Patel, he says that this bhakti-mārg, this is simply... He said, "Prabhupāda is teaching this to us because we are so low class that actually the higher class is beyond..."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Who is that? Patel?
Karandhara: An Indian man who comes to the temple. The first thing you learn in Bhakti-yoga...
Prabhupāda: Oh, he said like that?
Karandhara: Yes. "Bhakti-yoga is only for the low class, unintelligent," that's what he said. "And in India they..."
Prabhupāda: Let him come; I shall talk. Kṛṣṇa said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti [Bg. 18.55] = by bhakti one can understand. So one who understands Kṛṣṇa, is he low class? And you become high-class? And then?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He simply shows his ignorance, man who says like that.
Karandhara: He does not say "Kṛṣṇa"; he says "the god." He says Kṛṣṇa, Śiva, whatever name, "the god."
Prabhupāda: "The god." Does Bhagavad-gītā say like that? Kṛṣṇa says anya-devatā, and He is decrying the worship of other demigods. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. He says hṛta-jñānāḥ, lost of knowledge, they go to other demigods. In another place He says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15] = "Only the lowest of the mankind does not surrender to Me." Another place He says, "One who has actually, wise---attained wisdom, He surrenders to Me." So how he can be [indistinct]? [break]
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The demons... [break] [end]